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View Full Version : [3.5] Readied actions, AoO's, and spellcasting



Choco
2010-07-19, 11:30 AM
Simple question that will likely lead to an interesting debate: If you ready an action to disrupt a spellcaster, can you also take an AoO against that spellcaster either before or after the readied attack?

Eloel
2010-07-19, 11:31 AM
Simple question that will likely lead to an interesting debate: If you ready an action to disrupt a spellcaster, can you also take an AoO against that spellcaster either before or after the readied attack?

Yes. Yes and more Yes.

OzymandiasVolt
2010-07-19, 11:33 AM
Yes. The only question is, which order would you like to take them in?

Choco
2010-07-19, 11:36 AM
nice, didn't know it would be that simple :smallbiggrin:

I thought someone would be pulling out references to rules I had overlooked that would state something along the lines of the readied action being my response to the spellcasting so I can't take an AoO.

Keld Denar
2010-07-19, 12:21 PM
An AoO occures immediately before the action that caused it (if you move out of a square, you are attacked in the square you moved out of, not the square you move into). A readied action occurs at during or after the action that triggered it (moving into a threatened square triggers the readied action after the square is entered, not when the previous square is left).

Technically, if you got an AoO due to casting a spell, and that attack interupted the spell, the spell would never get far enough to cause the readied action to react to it. Its a little wonky with spellcasting since the attacks both have to occur during the actual casting in order to interupt it, and while they occur at different times, both explicitly are able to interupt spellcasting so they must both occur close to the same time, but I don't believe they happen at exactly the same time.

WarKitty
2010-07-19, 12:47 PM
Definitely the AoO first, as they occur immediately because the caster is distracted. Although I would say you could still use your readied action, as technically the action readied would usually be "I attack him if he starts to cast a spell."

Curmudgeon
2010-07-19, 01:06 PM
An attack of opportunity occurs when someone lets their guard down. That happens when the enemy first thinks about casting a spell, and before they actually do any of the casting motions or sounds that your readied action would respond to. (Ready isn't divination magic; it's just a plan, and the plan to attack someone casting a spell won't execute unless your character sees and/or hears the trigger to set the plan into effect.)

Choco
2010-07-19, 01:16 PM
So you just gotta get the mageslayer feat and ready an action to attack the person who provoked an AoO from you by casting a spell right after the resolution of the AoO. That way you will always get both (unless the first kills the target).

WarKitty
2010-07-19, 01:18 PM
An attack of opportunity occurs when someone lets their guard down. That happens when the enemy first thinks about casting a spell, and before they actually do any of the casting motions or sounds that your readied action would respond to. (Ready isn't divination magic; it's just a plan, and the plan to attack someone casting a spell won't execute unless your character sees and/or hears the trigger to set the plan into effect.)

Depends on how you want to fluff it here, really. Personally I figured you triggered the AoO right when you start casting because you have to focus all your attention on the casting.

Keld Denar
2010-07-19, 01:34 PM
If the AoO caused by spellcasting really occured before the actual start of the spellcasting action, then how is it that it can interupt a spell being cast in a way that causes that spell to be lost. Until you actually start casting the spell, you haven't done anything more to that spell than you did when you prepped it that morning. Until you actually begin invoking the spell, its still just sitting there in your memory waiting to be released. The damage caused by an AoO can clearly cause a spell to be lost (by lost, I mean wiped from your memory until you memorize it again, not simply losing the action). Therefore, I think its clear that the AoO provoked by spellcasting is slightly different from one provoked by moving or shooting a ranged weapon or whatever in that it comes during the action that triggers it, instead of immediately before.

Likewise on the readied action. Normally if you ready an attack to attack someone that hits you, they would hit you, and then you'd hit them back. If you readied an attack to interupt a spellcaster, the attack happens during the spell in such a way that the damage interferes with their concentration.

Now, you could say that the AoO occures at the start of the spellcasting action and the readied action occures at the end of the spellcasting action. If you did, and the AoO successfully interupted the spell, the caster would never make it to the end of the spellcasting action and therefore there would be no trigger for the readied action. Alternatively, you could rule that both attacks occur simultantously, or near-simultaneously, in such that even if the trigger is removed, the action still takes place (similar to M:tG stack rules). Either way, you'd really have to consult with your DM on this.

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-19, 05:09 PM
Depends on how you want to fluff it here, really. Personally I figured you triggered the AoO right when you start casting because you have to focus all your attention on the casting.

Yeah, I agree with this a lot more than I agree with the idea that a caster provokes an attack of opportunity simply by deciding to cast the spell. It's when they put all their attention on the spell, thus reducing their attention on what's going on around them, that they provoke the attack.

Also as others have said, if it occurs before the caster begins tapping into the spell's energy, it wouldn't expend the spell's energy if they fail the concentration check. They would never have started to cast it in the first place, so it'd still be ready to cast.

In the end, I'd say the 'immediately before' is immediately before the spell is completed.