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Darth Stabber
2010-07-19, 10:53 PM
Is there any way by RAW that I can get access to UMD without taking levels in class that has it as a class skill. I mean like a feat or something similar that easily apply to a fighter. Even if I still have to take cross class ranks in it, it would still be a workable solution.

Ideal Example:
Skill Training
benefit: choose a skill, it is now always considered a class skill for you.

Ranos
2010-07-19, 10:58 PM
Only way I can think of is the Apprentice feat in the DMG II. Comes with a free plot-hook, a slight buff depending on your kind of mentor, and a slight GP drain. Once you reach 5th level, you become the mentor, and it gets pretty good, as you get a few mooks looking up to you.

CubeB
2010-07-19, 10:59 PM
Apprentice (Level One Only) allows you to add a skill to your class list.

Able Learner (Again, 1st level only, and only available to Humans and Changelings) lets you train all skills as class skills.

There are others, but I have no idea what they are or where to find it...

Zaq
2010-07-19, 11:00 PM
Unearthed Arcana has exactly this, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm#skillKnowledge) though it's hard to argue that it's anything other than "nonstandard." It's definitely a variant rule.

One of the Apprentice feats in DMG2 gives UMD as a class skill, but that gets ugly if your GM wants you to actually roleplay it.

IdleMuse
2010-07-19, 11:02 PM
Looks like this thread needs some links (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=7a452da09ee185915c3e949cf08df4 59&topic=6832.0). Although that's not complete-complete, I don't think. There are some cleric domains which I think aren't listed, as well as Able Learner, and other race/class specific stuff.

Cog
2010-07-19, 11:09 PM
Even if I still have to take cross class ranks in it, it would still be a workable solution.
Since nobody's pointed it out, you can do this even without any feats or other abilities.

Darth Stabber
2010-07-19, 11:26 PM
Since nobody's pointed it out, you can do this even without any feats or other abilities.

I actually don't think you can take CC ranks in UMD. I could be wrong. Could someone else verify this.

Lhurgyof
2010-07-19, 11:30 PM
Isn't there a feat in the Complete Adventurer that makes all skills class skills or something? Forget it's name... on the tip of my tongue. Dx

Kylarra
2010-07-19, 11:34 PM
I actually don't think you can take CC ranks in UMD. I could be wrong. Could someone else verify this.In 3.0 you couldn't, but in 3.5 you can.


Isn't there a feat in the Complete Adventurer that makes all skills class skills or something? Forget it's name... on the tip of my tongue. DxYou're probably thinking of Jack of All Trades, which lets you use all skills untrained as if you had 1/2 a rank in them.

Zaq
2010-07-19, 11:34 PM
I actually don't think you can take CC ranks in UMD. I could be wrong. Could someone else verify this.

You are wrong. In 3.0, there were certain skills you couldn't take cross-class, but 3.5 mercifully axed that.

jguy
2010-07-19, 11:35 PM
I actually don't think you can take CC ranks in UMD. I could be wrong. Could someone else verify this.

You can take CC in any skill, all you have to do is pay 2 skill points and you have a cap on how many points can be in it.

Draz74
2010-07-20, 12:48 AM
You're probably thinking of Jack of All Trades, which lets you use all skills untrained as if you had 1/2 a rank in them.

More likely mixing up Jack of All Trades with Able Learner (which is in Races of Destiny).

Rixx
2010-07-20, 01:35 AM
The Pathfinder skill system is way easier to understand and is much more forgiving with cross-class skills. See if you can convince your DM to adopt it.

gallagher
2010-07-20, 01:36 AM
so a warblade with pumped INT getting apprentice at level one, thus getting UMD.... im actually kind of scared of that build

Kylarra
2010-07-20, 02:02 AM
More likely mixing up Jack of All Trades with Able Learner (which is in Races of Destiny).Possibly, but since able learner was already mentioned, I excluded that possibility.

ProfMoriarty
2010-07-20, 09:37 AM
From Dragon #291(I think) the Arcane Gnome race gains UMD as a class skill in exchange for the gnome's speak with animals and also has additional stat adjustments in addition to the other gnome racial traits.

Faleldir
2010-07-20, 10:31 AM
so a warblade with pumped INT getting apprentice at level one, thus getting UMD.... im actually kind of scared of that build
Good thing UMD is CHA-based.

noiadodh
2010-07-20, 10:57 AM
roll a monk :smallamused:

Person_Man
2010-07-20, 11:50 AM
Arcane Schooling: Youíre treated as having one level of one arcane class for the purpose of activating spell trigger items. Although this limits you somewhat (it means you have to buy a Healing Belt instead of a Wand of Cure Light Wounds), this feat otherwise replaces UMD. Playerís Guide to Faerun pg 33.

Magic Device Attunement: If you successfully make a UMD check to use an item, you donít have to make another one when using that item for the next 24 hours. So you invest a few ranks in UMD cross class and have a good Cha, burn one or two uses in the morning to attune a wand, and then you can use it without making a check for the rest of the day. It's more flexible then Arcane Schooling in that you can use items from any spell list, but less flexible in that you can only have one device at a time attuned. Complete Mage pg 44.

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-20, 12:28 PM
That first one sounds like a great option for a focused specialist to regain his ability to use forbiden items!

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-20, 02:59 PM
Able Learner (Again, 1st level only, and only available to Humans and Changelings) lets you train all skills as class skills.

No, able learner makes cross-class skills cost only 1 point per rank. Maximums still apply normally.

Darrin
2010-07-20, 03:02 PM
Arcane Schooling: Youíre treated as having one level of one arcane class for the purpose of activating spell trigger items. Although this limits you somewhat (it means you have to buy a Healing Belt instead of a Wand of Cure Light Wounds), this feat otherwise replaces UMD. Playerís Guide to Faerun pg 33.

Magic Device Attunement: If you successfully make a UMD check to use an item, you donít have to make another one when using that item for the next 24 hours. So you invest a few ranks in UMD cross class and have a good Cha, burn one or two uses in the morning to attune a wand, and then you can use it without making a check for the rest of the day. It's more flexible then Arcane Schooling in that you can use items from any spell list, but less flexible in that you can only have one device at a time attuned. Complete Mage pg 44.

You can also take the Planar Touchstone feat, link it to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, and pick up the Magic domain power. This allows you to use spell completion/trigger items as if you were a 1st level wizard. Very similar to Arcane Schooling, but doesn't have any FR-specific regional requirements, and includes spell completion items (Arcane Schooling only allows spell trigger items).

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-21, 10:51 AM
I've been thinking about something similar, and assuming I can't make UMD a full class skill, let's say I have Able Learner. The level maximums are still pretty limiting, and I haven't found many resources on any way to boost UMD skill. (The fact that 'UMD' is too short to search for is kind of unhelpful in this regard).

Anyone have any good resources/info on boosting UMD, whether it's a class skill or not?

Person_Man
2010-07-21, 12:52 PM
Anyone have any good resources/info on boosting UMD, whether it's a class skill or not?

Any class can take UMD as a cross-class Skill. Although it takes twice as many Skill points, it still becomes viable at ECL 8ish for Cha based builds or 15ish for everyone else.

The Mage's Spectacles soulmeld grants a 4 + (2 * essentia) invested Inisght bonus on UMD, Spellcraft, Decipher Script. Alternatively, the Elder Spirit soulmeld grants the same bonus on UMD, Know (history), Know (arcana) (they don't stack). The amount of essenita you can invest is limited by your HD. But essentially 1 level of Incarnate or 2 feats (Shape Soulmeld and Extra Essentia) gives you a 6-10 point Insight bonus.

1 level of Marshal can give you "Motivate Charisma" which adds your Cha bonus to all Cha related skills and checks. So with a Cha of 20, your ability bonus to UMD would essentially be +10.

Masterwork Tool: +2 Circumstance bonus.

Admiral's Bicorn: +7 to all charisma based skills.

Circlet of Persuasion: +3 to Charisma checks.

Cloak of Charisma: +2/4/6 enhancement bonus to Charisma (+1/2/3 to UMD)

Custom Magic Item: up to a +5/10/etc competence bonus. Requires more DM approval than most.

Luckstone: +1 luck bonus

Anything that allows a reroll will help, including the Luck Blade or Balam vestige.

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-21, 04:29 PM
Mm, wonderful list, thanks. That Admiral's Bicorn is really nice (I'll have to get a custom item made that doesn't look like...a bicorn) and the incarnum one I doubt I would have found myself.

Corbeau
2010-07-21, 04:44 PM
The feat Aereni Focus from PGtE, 1st level only, gives skill focus of +3 and permanent class skill of choice. Downside is that it is regional, race and campaign specific. But hey, if you're ever playing in eberron as an elf...

nedz
2010-07-21, 05:00 PM
I'm sure I came across a Monk UMD handbook somewhere :smallbiggrin: ?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-21, 05:17 PM
The Pathfinder skill system is way easier to understand and is much more forgiving with cross-class skills. See if you can convince your DM to adopt it.

Although the PF skill system is a lot easier to toy with, the default rules can murder people trying to get into a PrC with a CC skill at 4 ranks. Just saying.


From Dragon #291(I think) the Arcane Gnome race gains UMD as a class skill in exchange for the gnome's speak with animals and also has additional stat adjustments in addition to the other gnome racial traits.

Yeah, Arcane Gnomes are in Dragon 291. They come with an Int bonus, too, I think.


Good thing UMD is CHA-based.

Eh, real men dump Cha even when using skills with it and just use items to cover up for the -2. That or you go Cha-based casting and laugh.


No, able learner makes cross-class skills cost only 1 point per rank. Maximums still apply normally.

If you have room to play with levels, you can just throw a level into Factotum to make everything a class skill ever, effectively.


I'm sure I came across a Monk UMD handbook somewhere :smallbiggrin: ?

I see what you did there and am not amused. Such summonings lead to the darkside!

Greenish
2010-07-21, 05:41 PM
If you have room to play with levels, you can just throw a level into Factotum to make everything a class skill ever, effectively.Or throw in a level of cloistered cleric and get travel devotion, knowledge devotion and the ability to activate nearly all wands without UMD checks.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-21, 07:47 PM
Or throw in a level of cloistered cleric and get travel devotion, knowledge devotion and the ability to activate nearly all wands without UMD checks.

Or that. Personally, unless I know I need the free movement from Travel Devotion, I tend to prefer Law Devotion instead. Helps even more with connecting with non-charging power attacks on top of Knowledge Devotion.