Now we Know How Belkar Dies

[Lord Loss]

1) Oracle Predicted Belkar's Death

2) Belkar's in a place where the only escape is death

3) Roy predicted his death:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html


Am I the only one here that thinks this is the end for Belkar???

[T-O-E]

This subplot is a joke. I don't think it'll have any plot significance like the death of a main character. It'd probably seem too sudden and not dramatic enough (although that could be the point.)

Maybe he'll die and get raised but that seems like a contradiction of the 'death isn't cheap' rule the Giant spent an entire book trying to defy.

[The Rose Dragon]

Am I the only one here that thinks this is the end for Belkar???

Seriously? Yes.

As a joke? Probably not.

[Skeppio]

As unlikely as it will be, I really hope the little snot meets his end in the arena. The more brutal and one-sided the beating, the better.

Honestly, I doubt he'll die here. Still a ways away from the big finale. Sadly, we're not at the last days of Belkar yet.

[Lord Loss]

Oh. Glad to see I'm wrong!:smallbiggrin:. I'd hate to have Belkar meet his end so soon.

[lesser_minion]

Belkar's death has already been foreshadowed, and we're in a situation where he might die.

That's what we know. I suspect this might be a tease to build tension rather than the actual moment of Belkar's death, but...

I wouldn't be surprised if things were set up so that The Giant could kill off Belkar any strip now.

It's just a question of whether or not he feels like doing so

(spoilered for wild comic speculation)

[The Rose Dragon]

Sadly Thankfully, we're not at the last days of Belkar yet.

Fixed it for you. :smalltongue:

[Morquard]

Belkar's death has already been foreshadowed, and we're in a situation where he might die.

Which is the reason I think he won't die. It would be too obvious.
He probably dies afterwards, right after saying "Wow that was a tough fight, I was afraid I'd die there". Then he gets a heart attack and is dead.

[Morty]

I think it's entirely possible Belkar dies here. This subplot has been a joke so far, but it doesn't mean something serious will happen. And the clock is ticking.

[lesser_minion]

Which is the reason I think he won't die. It would be too obvious.
He probably dies afterwards, right after saying "Wow that was a tough fight, I was afraid I'd die there". Then he gets a heart attack and is dead.

Spoilered for speculation

I think 'obvious' would be Belkar surviving the entire comic only to suddenly die during part of the denouement/epilogue.

And "I did not expect to live through this" has been joked about in the comic in the past. Might've been a bluff, or a sneaky foreshadowing piece, but I'm not sure about that.

[Swordpriest]

Whatever his fate may be, I hope that he perishes soon so that there can be a discussion on the boards without it devolving into speculation about the little creep's destiny. :smallwink: In fact, if the next comic were to start with his corpse stretched out on the ground, and the arena officials used a "Disintegrate - Gust of Wind" to dispose of it in the next two panels after that, I would actually burst into song. :smallbiggrin:

[Bongos]

I just don't see it happening in the gladiator arena....which is as good a reason for it to happen there as ant actually...seriously it will be soon, just not quite yet I'm sure.

[Witty Username]

I would think Belkar would have the plot important end, like a battle with Redcloak or the creature in the shadows first heroic snack.

But like my friends I think Belkar is becoming an undead reoccurring villain.

[Dr.Epic]

Yeah I doubt the giant is going to kill Belkar off now. He's basically the character with the most punchlines in the comic and I doubt the giant is going to get rid of him when the series is so far from the end.

[Nilan8888]

Which is the reason I think he won't die. It would be too obvious.
He probably dies afterwards, right after saying "Wow that was a tough fight, I was afraid I'd die there". Then he gets a heart attack and is dead.

Exactly... well I don't know about the heart attack part, maybe... both otherwise, exactly.

This is what everyone would expect and is expecting. It's set up from too far away for it to happen like this. We know it's coming so clearly... this thread an example thereof... there's an element of suspense going on here where everyone's waiting for the inevitable.

My thoughts are that when it happens it will all happen with ONE COMIC and will be totally unexpected beforehand prior to the beginning of the comic in which it happens. Whenever this happens, I doubt you're going to see it coming.

What this subplot is doing, IMO, is setting up the relationship between Roy, Belkar, and the Bounty Hunters and showing how Tarquin is going to develop as a character. The desert prologue and leftover mission objectives from DStP were completed by comic 712 (if you don't count the scene-setting ofr 710 and 711). We're now, I think, a little ways through ACT I of the new book. Belkar will probably not die until ACT III, after we've been dealing with Tarquin for a little while.

I'd say we're probably something like 50-80 strips before Belkar's death happens, depending on how this book will be paced. And when it DOES happen, I don't think anyone's going to expect it before the comic it will appear in. It will probably be a show-stopping moment that ends a comic, like Xykon seeing Soon and the resurrected Sapphire Guard for the first time.

[Theodoriph]

I could see Belkar dying as a gladiator. His death could spur Elan to realize what a jerk his dad is. Granted I'm assuming his dad is hatching an evil plot against the order.

[Scarlet Knight]

I don't see it. If anyone is meant to be a gladiator, it is Belkar.

1) The chance to kill and be cheered for it. Humans, demi-humans, animals, just to break the monotony. "Run my little chunks of XP"!

2) noble women coming to him at night like groupies.

3) "Win the crowd & win your freedom" . I see Belkar becoming free and refusing to leave the arena. Gladiator prestige class on the horizon.

4) SEXY, SHOE- um SANDLED GOD of WAR!

:belkar: "Are you not entertained!"

[Red XIV]

Spoilered for speculation

I think 'obvious' would be Belkar surviving the entire comic only to suddenly die during part of the denouement/epilogue.

And "I did not expect to live through this" has been joked about in the comic in the past. Might've been a bluff, or a sneaky foreshadowing piece, but I'm not sure about that.
I wouldn't discount that idea, except that the Giant has made it very clear that Belkar will die within a specific timeframe. And that said timeframe is very close to its end. There just doesn't seem to be enough time left for battles over both remaining Gates before Belkar's time runs out, especially given that we'll surely have more subplots like current Empire of Blood scenario in between. Not to mention the already-running subplots, like Azure City, the Linear Guild, and the IFCC.

[gjp]

Why kill Belkar off after giving him a major character development episode ala the whole Shojo / vision thingy?

[Lord Loss]

Why kill Belkar off after giving him a major character development episode ala the whole Shojo / vision thingy?

I've asked myself this multiple times, perhaps he'll become an undead afterwards?

[Swordpriest]

Why kill Belkar off after giving him a major character development episode ala the whole Shojo / vision thingy?

Actually, despite my loathing for the topic of Belkar, this has puzzled me also. The Shojo thing seemed to be the setup for a fairly involved plot involving the little wretch. Thus far, that has gone almost totally unexplored -- and there was a lot of fine, devious stuff in there.

If he's about to die permanently, that entire big long episode was pretty worthless, plot-wise. Which is what keeps a nagging doubt in my mind about his permanent death -- or at least, permanent removal from the comic. Undeath seems just as unlikely, though, because how can a walking corpse "pretend to play the game," as Shojo put it?

[Linkavitch]

Personally, I think it's completely possible that, Roy and Belkar are set up as rivals, and go through the comic rising in Gladiator ranks until they are popular enough that they only need win one more match to be free, and the match is against...each other. Then, either the rest of the Order will rescue them as the match is beginning, or Roy will kill Belkar.

Or maybe they'll refuse to fight each other and stage an elaborate escape.

[Yendor]

Roy will face Belkar in the arena, and beat him. Then he'll look up, and see Haley, Elan, Vaarsuvius and Durkon all giving the thumbs-down.

[Boogastreehouse]

No, I think that here in the arena is where Belkar will show Roy his "development" as a team-player, and Roy will begin to doubt his assessment of the little spud.

Belkar will stand by Roy's side during the greatest ordeals of the pit, and despite himself Roy will begin to see Belkar as a brother-in-arms. This doesn't mean that Roy will start to like Belkar, but they will have that bond between them that you can only have with someone you have stood back-to-back with while facing overwhelming opposition.

Then Roy will be troubled, because he knows that Belkar is going to die soon. Should he tell him? Before, he wouldn't have, because Belkar was easy to write off, but now that the little jerk has saved Roy's life and stood by his side, Roy will feel guilt for withholding this ultimate secret from Belkar.

Belkar may be evil, but Roy's not, and he may feel he is betraying Belkar. What will he do? Now there's some drama.

[Dr.Epic]

Why kill Belkar off after giving him a major character development episode ala the whole Shojo / vision thingy?

That happened awhile ago. We've seen the effect of it: he didn't ditch Haley to be killed during that brawl.

[Kairamek]

No, I think that here in the arena is where Belkar will show Roy his "development" as a team-player, and Roy will begin to doubt his assessment of the little spud.

Belkar will stand by Roy's side during the greatest ordeals of the pit, and despite himself Roy will begin to see Belkar as a brother-in-arms. This doesn't mean that Roy will start to like Belkar, but they will have that bond between them that you can only have with someone you have stood back-to-back with while facing overwhelming opposition.

Then Roy will be troubled, because he knows that Belkar is going to die soon. Should he tell him? Before, he wouldn't have, because Belkar was easy to write off, but now that the little jerk has saved Roy's life and stood by his side, Roy will feel guilt for withholding this ultimate secret from Belkar.

Belkar may be evil, but Roy's not, and he may feel he is betraying Belkar. What will he do? Now there's some drama.

I wouldn't have seen that coming, but that exactly the kind of thing Rich would do. And it's great story telling to boot! Which would explain why Rich would do it, cause it's great story telling.

[thermitetermite]

Too hackneyed? Too Cliche' ?

1. Roy is pitted against Belkar ( ala friend vs friend plot we've seen in too many gladiator stories) and Belkar lets Roy kill him knowing that the mission to stop Xykon is too important.

2. Belkar sacrifices himself by taking a mortal wound meant for Roy. Again, so that Roy can continue the mission to stop Xykon.

Thoughts?

TT

PS: Second thoughts ( that's what i get for posting at 3:35am). 1 seems sorta unplausible but maybe possible.

[Ancalagon]

Thoughts?

Your theory hinges on the questions if Belkar would give his life for another (answer is: no) and if he cares if the world gets destroyed or not after he is dead (again, the answer is "no").

Also, Belkar won't die in this story arc. He'll die in the last part of the story, which will be the Fight over the Northern Gate. So, unless they are in an area with lots and lots of snow, Belkar is not going to die.

[factotum]

Also, Belkar won't die in this story arc. He'll die in the last part of the story, which will be the Fight over the Northern Gate. So, unless they are in an area with lots and lots of snow, Belkar is not going to die.

I disagree. I don't think the 7 weeks from the conversation Roy had with Haley on the island is long enough to last all the way to the Northern gate, and we also know that Durkon will return to his homeland (where that gate is) posthumously--seems to make sense Belkar may well be dead by that point too.

[Lord Loss]

Too hackneyed? Too Cliche' ?

1. Roy is pitted against Belkar ( ala friend vs friend plot we've seen in too many gladiator stories) and Belkar lets Roy kill him knowing that the mission to stop Xykon is too important.

2. Belkar sacrifices himself by taking a mortal wound meant for Roy. Again, so that Roy can continue the mission to stop Xykon.

Thoughts?

TT

PS: Second thoughts ( that's what i get for posting at 3:35am). 1 seems sorta unplausible but maybe possible.

Belkar would never ever sacrifice himself for another (except maybe Mr. Scruffy if he knew he would get raised).

[Ancalagon]

I disagree. I don't think the 7 weeks from the conversation Roy had with Haley on the island is long enough to last all the way to the Northern gate, and we also know that Durkon will return to his homeland (where that gate is) posthumously--seems to make sense Belkar may well be dead by that point too.

I think it will run like this:
There will be a fight over this gate and Xykon/Redcloaks plans are foiled another time. Durkon dies in the fight.
Xykon and Redcloak know they have no time to wait around (Xykon has already wasted enough time in sitting a Azure City after the last gate was lost, he is not going to add "waiting time" again if he does not has to).

So Xykon and the Order, with the dead Durkon as baggage, haste as fast as possible to the last gate, where the final arc will begin and Belkar will finally die.

In fact, you say the seven weeks are not enough for all this to happen. I instead say seven weeks is too much time if it does not come as I outlined in the spoiler.
I bet you can do the last arc in like a few (comic) days. Dungeon crawls, talking, some fighting... how much time do they take? Five, six rests? That would be like four days.

If Xykon does NOT hurry towards the last gate (and the order following/leading) we simply have too much time left. If time is an issue, a lot can happen in an ingame week. I would not at all be surprised if the last arc would get resolved in like three or six incomic days.

[T.H. Everything]

Belkar is going to die in this story arc. We need to admit it, maybe shed a lone tear, then carry on with our lives.

[Procyonpi]

For all the people who are saying "Belkar won't die so far from the end..." he has less than a month left, according to the giant.

[Ancalagon]

For all the people who are saying "Belkar won't die so far from the end..." he has less than a month left, according to the giant.

Yes. That is a known fact. It's like... in the comic and stuff. But we are talking about a in-comic-month, yes? Or do you have some comment it's a RL month, I did not hear about that, do you have a link?

And no one said an "in comic month" cannot be "the end of the story". It's pretty likely, I think, that it is just that.

[factotum]

In fact, you say the seven weeks are not enough for all this to happen. I instead say seven weeks is too much time if it does not come as I outlined in the spoiler.
I bet you can do the last arc in like a few (comic) days. Dungeon crawls, talking, some fighting... how much time do they take? Five, six rests? That would be like four days.


You seem to be ignoring travel time. Don't forget, without Durkon they have no Wind Walk, and they've never had teleport abilities of their own apart from when V was spliced, so getting to Kraagor's Gate could well be a several week journey in itself--especially since it's on the other continent to them now!

[Procyonpi]

Yes. That is a known fact. It's like... in the comic and stuff. But we are talking about a in-comic-month, yes? Or do you have some comment it's a RL month, I did not hear about that, do you have a link?

And no one said an "in comic month" cannot be "the end of the story". It's pretty likely, I think, that it is just that.

Yeah, I mean in-comic month.

And I sorta doubt the comic will be over in a month... I mean, they have probably at least two more books (including the current one) and a ton of material to cover. I feel like Belkar is gonna die before it's over.

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, I mean in-comic month.

And I sorta doubt the comic will be over in a month... I mean, they have probably at least two more books (including the current one) and a ton of material to cover. I feel like Belkar is gonna die before it's over.

Well, two weeks here and two weeks at the northern gate... lots of time and space to do ALL kinds of things.

An in-comic month can, without any issues, cover four RL years and three books.

I play a play by post forum rpg and we covered like 9 levels and like 10 in game months in 7 years of playing. Point is: in comic time and RL time do not correlate at all and an in-comic month can very well mean "the end of the story" in another 300 or 500 or even 700 strips.

[Nimrod's Son]

For all the people who are saying "Belkar won't die so far from the end..." he has less than a month left, according to the giant.
He actually has FIVE weeks left, according to Rich.

Also, according to commentary from DStP, the end of that book is slightly past the mid point of the story, assuming he doesn't run overly long in the telling of this second half. It seems like a reasonable guess to say we'll get another three books, current storyline included, all of about the same length as the last two. I'd be amazed if Belkar died this early into the current book, given how much promise for exploration he's shown recently - and equally amazed if he lasted right until the end the story, given that the events since Azure City have taken an entire year.

If I had to speculate, I'd say the smart money is on Belkar being the cover star of this current book, and he'll die at somepoint therein.

But not yet though. :smallsmile:

[Shale]

It's amazing how so many people know for a fact exactly what Rich is going to do with his story. I guess psychic powers really do exist!

[sednanalien]

Considering that we know that Belkar draws his last breath - ever, I somehow doubt that it will be in this instance - too easy to get back his body and raise him back.

Considering the recent "character development" for Belkar, we'll probably still see him in one form or another, after he draws his last breath...:smalltongue:

[Ancalagon]

It's amazing how so many people know for a fact exactly what Rich is going to do with his story. I guess psychic powers really do exist!

No, we are just stating opinions and give more or less conclusive reasons for it.
Based on the number or reasons and how likely they are, these estimates range from "Purely Stating Some Random Opinion" over "A Guess" to "An Educated Guess".

Right now, I think that the version I propagate is more likely based on my interpretation of stuff we saw in the comic, storytelling-basics, characters we saw, personal preference than what others propagated so far in regard to this topic.

If we cut all speculation that is not logically flawless deducted from known facts... well, we all should better ask the mods to delete our usernames...

All those theories are going to get - in time - proofed or disproofed.

[Shale]

It was aimed at phrasings like "Now we Know How Belkar Dies" and "Also, Belkar won't die in this story arc. He'll die in the last part of the story, which will be the Fight over the Northern Gate. So, unless they are in an area with lots and lots of snow, Belkar is not going to die."

[Ancalagon]

It was aimed at phrasings like ...

Well, I find it stupid to add "imo" (in various phrasings) before or in all posts. Given that some people cannot even give reasons for what they believe (no problem, stating an opinion is also fine) it's a bit strong to demand a disclaimer before and in every post (especially those posts that are in the middle of running debates).

For sake of simplicity, you should just assume anything anyone writes in any discussion on the net is actually a personal opinion. Makes it much easier... imo.

[Bongos]

The Oracle has made several statements regarding Belkar's demise:

1. The halfing shoudn't bother funding his IRA

2.Roy asks the question "Did you just imply that Belkar isn't going to live to see old age?"
The Oracle replies "He should savor his next birthday cake".

3. Your pal (Belkar) isn't long for this world.

4. Belkar will draw his last breath -ever- before the end of the (in comic) year.



By most calculations the end of a year will occur in 5 weeks.

My guess from the strips featuring the Oracle, is that one needs to pay attention to exactly how he words everything. Thus Belkar will be gone, sooner than 5 weeks, as the Oracle says "before the end of the year

It's telling that the Oracle never says "Belkar will die" Or the "halfling will be killed". Even though Belkar's death is strongly implied, it is never explicitly stated.

Rich has something good up his sleeve.

[the_tick_rules]

It's possible, but we're seeing Belkar's death around every corner, just relax and wait and see.

[Kish]

I would say "Belkar's death is the new Vaarsuvius' four words," except that people were looking for Belkar's death (and ways around his death) before Vaarsuvius said his/her four words.

When it's over, people will probably focus on predicting Durkon's death whenever he appears onscreen and speculating that he's quietly died whenever he doesn't appear onscreen.

[Dr.Epic]

I would say "Belkar's death is the new Vaarsuvius' four words," except that people were looking for Belkar's death (and ways around his death) before Vaarsuvius said his/her four words.

A) You're right people are looking for something that probably isn't there.
B) Was that total arcane power? V lost to Xykon so I would say his/her prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.

[Innis Cabal]

No, that was the point. That -was- total awesome super powerful Arcane energy. Thats exactly what V asked about. S/He never said anything about being able to control it. Which s/he didn't. S/He squandered it, again, which was the whole point of that whole section. S/He wasn't ready for the power s/he was looking for.

As for Belkar, he'll probably die in this part. We've only seen the start of this arc after all.

[gjp]

Hopefully, Belkar lives, and continues to amuse us in only the way a chaotic evil halfling ranger/barbarian can.

[Nimrod's Son]

Was that total arcane power? V lost to Xykon so I would say his/her prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.
V had ultimate arcane power when he faced off against the dragon. By the time he got to Xykon, the most powerful of the three splices was already gone.

In any case, Rich went into great detail about V's prophecy in the DStP commentary. V's never going to be anywhere near that powerful ever again. Very likely no one else ever will either, so it really is as "ultimate" as it gets.

[Kish]

B) Was that total arcane power? V lost to Xykon so I would say his/her prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.
1) Rich disagrees. Check Don't Split the Party.
2) Vaarsuvius didn't ask, "How can I become invincible?" That s/he got the answer to what s/he asked rather than what s/he wanted is rather the point.

[Cealocanth]

I could see Belkar die in the arena, as it would be sudden and unexpected. A huge contraversy over it being too sudden would strike the whole forum like wildfire and this comic would grow wild in popularity as argument over the sudden death of our favorite psychopath ravages the internet.

I wouldn't bet on it though. It's simply too early.

[Darthteej]

I can't say I could reach into Rich's psyche, but past history doesn't seem to pin him as one who would pull PR stunts like that.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

Obvious option number one: Belkar dies in the arena, probably in the act of saving Roy's behind in some way or another, and maybe at Roy's hand.He could be resurrected afterward, especially if Roy feels he owes him one. Belkar would then go on to get killed some other way, more permanently this time.

Obvious option number two: he dies right before the comic ends, probably in a blaze of glory......or even after the comic ends, in a sort of anticlimactic epilogue. Still soon enough to give the oracle the giggles, though.

Other obvious thing: he dies, but comes back as an undead.People who suggest this tend to figure he would be a villain in this case, but I'd have to disagree. He's already chaotic evil, so his personality wouldn't change much. He could even write off some of his actions to his, 'internal struggle,' netting sympathy points and maybe even some extra scraps of XP. Nope, he'd keep on adventuring until the end if he had this chance.

Not-so-obvious possibilities...

Regarding the current situation: Belkar kills Roy.
Roy is released, and Malack resurrects him with state funds at Tarquin's request. Roy lets the prediction about Belkar's lifespan slip. For dramatic purposes, Tarquin decides that Belkar will survive until 11:59:59 on December 31st or whatever. Also, it turns out that either Belkar doesn't really want to leave the arena because it's too much fun, or the experience leaves him disillusioned about his violent ways.
Antics ensue.

Regarding Xykon's whereabouts:
He has been wandering the continent behind Redcloak's back. He passes right by Girard's gate, but never really knows it. He gives up and decides to proceed straight to the northern one.

Consequently, the plot sequence gets all messed up. Again.

Regarding Fully-grown Epileptic Trees:
Xykon finds the gate, kills Girard, learns about Redcloak's treachery, and arranges for Tsukiko to help with the ritual. All off-panel. Oh, and he actually found his phylactery like six months ago.

Antics ensue. Naturally, the party manages to find them in the nick of time, with Tarquin's help. (Bonus prediction: Tsukiko has a special requirement regarding how she gets access to epic magic - she must execute it at the stroke of midnight on the 'death' of a Southern Calendar year. Belkar gets in the way and goes out as a Big Damn Hero.)

Belkar, Durkon and Xykon all go splat. Tsuki manages to wightify the fallen OotS members and escape with them. Xykon regenerates in some secret hiding spot, much to Roy's chagrin.

Belkar is still, basically, himself. He goes along with Team Evil's plan until he doesn't, as it suits him.

Durkon's psyche is more damaged by the experience. Belkar makes some effort to get through to him along the way, but he comes to only when he meets Hilgya during the attack on the dwarven homeland. Her ability to command undead may be involved.

Stuff happens. The snarl is examined more closely and then goes away for some reason. Elan and Haley live happily ever after.

The End.

[Ancalagon]

You seem to be ignoring travel time. Don't forget, without Durkon they have no Wind Walk, and they've never had teleport abilities of their own apart from when V was spliced, so getting to Kraagor's Gate could well be a several week journey in itself--especially since it's on the other continent to them now!

I'm not.

In a world full of magic, getting around a week of dead travel time is one of the easier things an author can be confronted with. If Rich does not want travel time in his timing, he won't have it.

[factotum]

Considering that we know that Belkar draws his last breath - ever, I somehow doubt that it will be in this instance - too easy to get back his body and raise him back.


Assuming they WANT to get him back. Roy made it clear he was going to "run the clock out" on Belkar--seems unlikely he'll raise him from the dead, whether he dies tomorrow or in five weeks.


In a world full of magic, getting around a week of dead travel time is one of the easier things an author can be confronted with. If Rich does not want travel time in his timing, he won't have it.

But you're then assuming that Rich, for some reason, doesn't want Belkar to die until the end of the book. My assumption is that he WILL die before the end, and therefore there's no need for Rich to jump through hoops to get them quickly to Kraagor's Gate.

[Witty Username]

I had a thought,

Belkar is now the representation of a crooked player

Take the blow for Roy, then fudge his hit points or what ever Mr. Burlew decides, and survives the hit that was supposed to kill him by the plot.
:roy: well, crap
:belkar: no!
:haley: We have to help him
:elan: we can't, Belkar needs his plot moment
shuuurrttt!!
:belkar: is that all you got, I am a Sexy Shoeless GOD OF WAR!!!

[brilliantlight]

It was aimed at phrasings like "Now we Know How Belkar Dies" and "Also, Belkar won't die in this story arc. He'll die in the last part of the story, which will be the Fight over the Northern Gate. So, unless they are in an area with lots and lots of snow, Belkar is not going to die."

Why? We could well see :belkar: dying well before that.

[Kish]

Why? We could well see :belkar: dying well before that.
Y'might want to check the context of Shale's post that you're responding to a little more. Just a thought.

[Fable Wright]

Belkar might not die. There are ways to fulfill the prophesy without Belkar dieing. Like the ring of sustenance. He wouldn't have to breathe. :smalltongue:

[Detrinex]

He'd probably trip over his sandals and get killed by a kobold gladiator.

[Kish]

Belkar might not die. There are ways to fulfill the prophesy without Belkar dieing. Like the ring of sustenance. He wouldn't have to breathe. :smalltongue:
...but would still be in the world, so no.

[Alex Warlorn]

Which is the reason I think he won't die. It would be too obvious.
He probably dies afterwards, right after saying "Wow that was a tough fight, I was afraid I'd die there". Then he gets a heart attack and is dead.

And no one for him to rain vengeance on from beyond because he died because he didn't take good enough care of himself and has no one to blame for once other than himself. All that rage and bloodlust and no one to direct it at!

The one problem is that the longer Belkar is dead, the longer the three fiend alliance have on bringing him up to speed and molding him into an even more perfect killing machine for their cause.

[Alex Warlorn]

He'd probably trip over his sandals and get killed by a kobold gladiator.

"FATHER! GRANDFATHER! I HAVE AVENGED YOU!"

[Itous]

when belkar dies as foretold, whats stopping them from bringing him back from the dead?

i mean sure he's a bit of a loose cannon but he's learnt how to be a team player and to top it off he's the only tracker and makes him a valuble asset FINALLY he's a skilled fighter i'm sure he could give roy a run for his money.

why would they not need him?

[Shale]

If his body is lost or destroyed, they'd need True Resurrection to bring him back, and none of them know of a cleric high enough level to cast it.

But even if that doesn't happen, they don't want to bring him back from the dead. They know his "development" is faked, aimed at just avoiding anybody killing him for refusing to play the game, and that's not enough to make him not a threat. Roy has said as much to Haley, and she didn't complain. I wouldn't be surprised if they burn his body themselves.

[monomer]

Probably because he's their tracker, and he doesn't know how to track?

The only reason Roy is keeping him around until he dies is to try to keep his homicidal tendencies in check.

[factotum]

Agreed. Yes, Belkar is good at killing people, but he's a bit too good at killing people who they don't want dead! It's not like the party needs two melee characters--they already have the holy trinity of tank, healer and DPS (Roy, Durkon and V), after all.

[derfenrirwolv]

1) Most likely, Belkar crosses the moral even horizon to the point that the party won't res him out of loyalty or need.

2) Belkar decides to stay in the arena and fight, the party walks off, and he gets killed.

3) He's sucked into the snarl, which is actually located under the arena

4) Belkar is killed in the arena, and then resurrected as an undead to continue his arena rampage.

[fwiffo]

How many horses (besides Windstriker) will Belkar kill before he goes? http://www.dakotart.com/forum/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

[Darcy]

He's a loose cannon like Nixon was an occasional fibber.

Now, is the question literally, "what do you think will be stopping them"? Or "I don't see a reason why he will stay dead?" I haven't thought much about the former, but if it's the latter... ararrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Morty]

As was said in the comic more than once: Belkar is at least as much a liability as he's an asset. His usefulness as a warrior is offset by his nature as a sociopathic, vile monster. The only reason Belkar isn't dead or imprisoned yet, as admitted by Roy, is that he's not going to live much longer.

[Kish]

when belkar dies as foretold, whats stopping them from bringing him back from the dead?
1) The fact that it is foretold that they wouldn't. ("Last breath--ever...")
2) ...Why in the name of all that is holy would they? In case you haven't noticed, they all despise him. Plus, he's a "skilled" enough tracker to find a bandit camp as long as he's looking for a strip club; if it's that important to them, Roy can take the Track feat and immediately be better at it than Belkar due to the lack of a crippling Wisdom penalty.

[Darcy]

I am imagining his eulogy now.

"Alas, poor Belkar, he was... a member of our team, technically at least, and he loved cats. A cat. He had a cat friend. I guess that's all there is to say about him without speaking ill of the dead. Does anyone know any high level adventurers looking for a job?"

[SatyreIkon]

Either Belkar dies and becomes resurrected as an undead of some kind (does not have to breathe any longer) or he gets his crowning moment of awesome in becoming undone while fighting off the Snarl in the FINAL BATTLE :smallbiggrin:

... hey, one can dream!

[Darcy]

I can kind of imagine Belkar being reanimated by an enemy faction. Wouldn't that be neat?

[DemonicAngel]

He will die and then stab his way out of hell (shoeless) god of war style.

in all seriousness, I say we wait and see :)

[Dr.Epic]

when belkar dies as foretold, whats stopping them from bringing him back from the dead?

Let's see...

-They could not find enough diamonds.
-His body could be destroyed.
-His soul could be trapped.
-He could just refuse resurrection (wouldn't it be hilarious if he went to the same place as Miko and decided to just torture her for all eternity).

[Morquard]

So you're saying Miko turned Chaotic Evil in the end... Or Belkar will turn Lawful Good before he goes?

[mucat]

-He could just refuse resurrection (wouldn't it be hilarious if he went to the same place as Miko and decided to just torture her for all eternity).

Er...no, it wouldn't?

[Dr.Epic]

Er...no, it wouldn't?

Er...yes, it would.

[Belsirk]

Let's see...

-They could not find enough diamonds.
-His body could be destroyed.
-His soul could be trapped.
-He could just refuse resurrection (wouldn't it be hilarious if he went to the same place as Miko and decided to just torture her for all eternity).

I put my money on the last one... Killer anythign that can move, get promoved because that.... That my friend it's the true afterlife for someone like Belkar (and of course his best pal could be a Rakasha on cat's disguise )

[brilliantlight]

Y'might want to check the context of Shale's post that you're responding to a little more. Just a thought.

You're right. The phrasing was a bit confusing.

[Gray Mage]

"FATHER! GRANDFATHER! I HAVE AVENGED YOU!"
Well,Yikyik did come from the western continent....

[Fable Wright]

He actually has FIVE weeks left, according to Rich.


Where can information like this be found?:smallconfused:

[Dr.Epic]

2) Vaarsuvius didn't ask, "How can I become invincible?" That s/he got the answer to what s/he asked rather than what s/he wanted is rather the point.

But wouldn't total BE total arcane power?

[Nimrod's Son]

Where can information like this be found?:smallconfused:
A post he made recently:


Since the battle took place about a week after the New Year, that means two weeks have passed since Roy's "seven weeks" comment--a few days to travel to Sandsedge, a week spent searching the desert, and a few days looking around the cities on the continent.

[Almaseti]

This is why I think Belkar had that Shoujo vision quest thing if he was just going to die:

Belkar is pretending to be a team player, yes? But there's this thing called cognitive dissonance, where if people pretend something about themselves too long, it starts to become true. Wouldn't it be a tear-jerker if it turned out Belkar really did turn over a new leaf, completely unintentionally, but the Order didn't bother to raise him because they thought he was faking it?

[Scarlet Knight]

This is why I think Belkar had that Shoujo vision quest thing if he was just going to die:

Belkar is pretending to be a team player, yes? But there's this thing called cognitive dissonance, where if people pretend something about themselves too long, it starts to become true. Wouldn't it be a tear-jerker if it turned out Belkar really did turn over a new leaf, completely unintentionally, but the Order didn't bother to raise him because they thought he was faking it?

:belkar: "Wait! I died pushing Roy out of the way of that chariot! And they're not gonna" raise me! I HATE that old dude!"

[Kish]

But wouldn't total BE total arcane power?
Rephrase for less accept-claim-being-argued-as-part-of-premise if you want an answer. :smalltongue:

[factotum]

According to a dream I had last night, Belkar dies thusly:


He gets polymorphed into a mouse and is then eaten by Mr. Scruffy.

It would be nicely ironic for the one entity to whom Belkar has shown lasting affection being the cause of his death. However, I think this theory is unlikely because it would be a near-repeat of what happened with V and Blackwing when V was polymorphed into a lizard.

[Bongos]

He actually has FIVE weeks left, according to Rich.



More than likely, five weeks was a day or two ago, so as of today probably less than 5 weeks.

tic toc tic toc tic toc

[Itous]

i dunno i've died plenty in D&D games and the first time i was ressurected it had changed me, like REALLY changed me in terms of my characters persona, i realised how precious life was and that it shouldn't be wasted, i think when Belkar dies he will regret his life style and want to be raised, but the party won't and as a result his soul would change alignment to good but he will be stuck in a chaotic evil hell for all eternity, second chances are worth it, then again being raised as a zombie, like how roy was with a golem would be intresting to say the least if his corpse was bought by some goblin traders and taken to Xykon imagine the morale boost it would give the bad guys knowing a good PC had died, and to top it all off imagine the shock or squaring off agenst belkar who actully has tactics agenst the party as mentioned in origon of the PC's.

besides Belkar as an undead would be kinda like that doctor dude from torchwood who got killed off but was a zombie, couldn't eat, sleep, drink, get some wood in his hood etc, all the things belkar likes, once again the lesson of life is taught.

also one question.... can someone give me a link to the strip where the others knew that belkars new front thing is a fake?

[enarch3t]

also one question.... can someone give me a link to the strip where the others knew that belkars new front thing is a fake?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html

[Gray Mage]

What I would like to happen is
Belkar dies and is ressurected/animated/comes from the Abism/insert fan teory here.... and is imediataly killed againg, this time for good evil.

[T.H. Everything]

In-universe, is there anyone who actually likes Belkar? Xykon might resurrect him as a generic undead minion, but I can't see anyone actually trying to resurrect him.

[Clovis]

Belkar will be eaten by the Empress of Blood, who thereby gains enough levels to learn spells.

[Callinit]

Maybe he'll change his name to Bulkar due to reaching enlightenment, and thus Belkar would've drawn his last breath and Bulkar his first.

.. that's possible? Isn't it? Damn, it's too early for Belkar to die though. But if he dies it has to be something really unpredictable, because it's forshadowed.

[super dark33]

i think he will die like this in the arena:
first round:
belkar:im gonna kick his ass!
*enor comes,fights belkar and wins*

[Mando Knight]

Xykon's not even on the right continent, and 736 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html) implies that Belkar will get his fatal comeuppance in the gladiatorial arena. Probably by the tanned guy with the greenish-tinted brown hair after his bald buddy gets killed by Belkar.

[super dark33]

there is no way to ressuract him.
''belkar will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year''

[CletusMusashi]

Damn it. So no happily ever after with Tsukiko?

[Kish]

Maybe he'll change his name to Bulkar due to reaching enlightenment, and thus Belkar would've drawn his last breath and Bulkar his first.

.. that's possible? Isn't it?

Now you explain how he ceases to be 1) "the halfling," 2) "your friend," and 3) the person the Oracle obviously meant. Also, how he's not long for the world, needn't bother funding his IRA, and should have savored the birthday cake he had between first meeting the Oracle and now.

[Dr.Epic]

there is no way to ressuract him.
''belkar will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year''

Wait, aren't there ways in D&D that will make it so you don't need to breath? I vaguely remember that's one of the features of VoP.

[LuPuWei]

I am imagining his eulogy now.

"Alas, poor Belkar, he was... a member of our team, technically at least, and he loved cats. A cat. He had a cat friend. I guess that's all there is to say about him without speaking ill of the dead. Does anyone know any high level adventurers looking for a job?"

And Scruffy sheds a tear...

Actually, what happens to Scruffy when Belkar dies? Will Scruffy be passed on to yet another rule-bending can of badass? Or will he give his life in a vain attempt to save his Mackarel vendor?

[Bedinsis]

In-universe, is there anyone who actually likes Belkar? Xykon might resurrect him as a generic undead minion, but I can't see anyone actually trying to resurrect him.

#165 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html) seemed to imply at least some party members cared for him. Also, in this story arch Belkar has proven that he cares for Mr. Scruffy (being genuinely shocked and upset when someone intended to eat him), and I believe it's a first step for some genuine character development, so that his ultimate fate will move the rest of the Order.

[teratorn]

#165 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html) seemed to imply at least some party members cared for him.

After that, in #263 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0263.html) we learned that not even Elan cares for him.

By the way, from #666 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) it looks like Belkar had about 7 weeks to live. So it's unlikely he'll die in the arena, he still has ~6 weeks left.

[Nimrod's Son]

And Scruffy sheds a tear...

Actually, what happens to Scruffy when Belkar dies? Will Scruffy be passed on to yet another rule-bending can of badass? Or will he give his life in a vain attempt to save his Mackarel vendor?
In a DStP bonus strip, Hinjo tells Belkar that he'll look after Mr Scruffy (strictly speaking, it IS his uncle's cat, after all) when Belkar returns to serve the rest of his prison sentence, so it's possible he'd be willing to provide a permanent home.

[Morquard]

Once Belkar dies Mr Scruffy will lick his face and breathe life back into him, and bring him back as Cathalfling! He'll then dress in skimpy black leather and likes to swing a whip around. :smallbiggrin:

[King of Nowhere]

I'll go with either "the party will never resurrect him" and "he woould refuse resurrection anyway".
I think Belkar will like whatever afterlife the ce types get. He'll be allowed to kill anything that moves, and if some demon eats him it will just give him the kickass battle damaged look. I don't think he'll mind the pain too much.

[Mystic Muse]

#165 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html) seemed to imply at least some party members cared for him.

key word here. Plus, as Teratorn posted, at #263 Not even Elan cares about him. Since then Belkar has become more evil and unpredictable and I'm almost positive everyone except Belkar would be opposed to bringing him back.

[Rowsen]

I have this wacky, far out theory.

Ready for this?It's not for the faint of heart.Very well, here it is.The Oracle's prophecy is fulfilled without any double meanings or loopholes. Belkar dies and is not resurrected and everyone gets on with their lives.

I must be mad for believing this, right?

[Bongos]

Actually there should be two points (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0721.html) about Belkar

[devinkowalczyk]

Wouldn't the author resurrect him for comic relief?
He is one of the funnier members of the party

[Nimrod's Son]

Wouldn't the author resurrect him for comic relief?
He is one of the funnier members of the party
If he was worried about that, why kill him in the first place?

The "ever" in the Oracle's prophecy is pretty definite.

[Kish]

He is one of the funnier members of the party
You are aware that this is a subjective opinion, I hope.

[brilliantlight]

I am imagining his eulogy now.

"Alas, poor Belkar, he was... a member of our team, technically at least, and he loved cats. A cat. He had a cat friend. I guess that's all there is to say about him without speaking ill of the dead. Does anyone know any high level adventurers looking for a job?"


Sounds about right! :biggrin: There isn't really anything much good to say about him. He is a homocidal sociopath!

[brilliantlight]

Let's see...

-They could not find enough diamonds.
-His body could be destroyed.
-His soul could be trapped.
-He could just refuse resurrection (wouldn't it be hilarious if he went to the same place as Miko and decided to just torture her for all eternity).

The most likely reason is that they won't bother. Unlike Roy, Belkar is simply not worth the gold and everyone except maybe :elan: despises him. He won't go the same place as :miko: as she will probably go to heaven from what Soon implied. Remember, she did what she did from good motives. She is headstrong and jumps to conclusions but she genuinely thought she was doing good and :belkar: was pushing all her buttons. I can see her go to Mechanius because of her recent actions and even if you now consider her evil she would go to Hell not the Abyss.

[Yendor]

You are aware that this is a subjective opinion, I hope.

He'd make most people's top ten, I'll admit.

[hamishspence]

I can see her go to Mechanius because of her recent actions and even if you now consider her evil she would go to Hell not the Abyss.

Celestia, Mechanus, and the Nine Hells aren't the only Lawful planes- there's also Acheron (for those who are almost LE, but not quite), and Arcadia (for those LN close to LG, or LG but close to LN).

That's if Miko didn't go all the way out of Lawful- which seems likely to me.

[brilliantlight]

i dunno i've died plenty in D&D games and the first time i was ressurected it had changed me, like REALLY changed me in terms of my characters persona, i realised how precious life was and that it shouldn't be wasted, i think when Belkar dies he will regret his life style and want to be raised, but the party won't and as a result his soul would change alignment to good but he will be stuck in a chaotic evil hell for all eternity, second chances are worth it, then again being raised as a zombie, like how roy was with a golem would be intresting to say the least if his corpse was bought by some goblin traders and taken to Xykon imagine the morale boost it would give the bad guys knowing a good PC had died, and to top it all off imagine the shock or squaring off agenst belkar who actully has tactics agenst the party as mentioned in origon of the PC's.

besides Belkar as an undead would be kinda like that doctor dude from torchwood who got killed off but was a zombie, couldn't eat, sleep, drink, get some wood in his hood etc, all the things belkar likes, once again the lesson of life is taught.

also one question.... can someone give me a link to the strip where the others knew that belkars new front thing is a fake?

If he comes back as a zombie he is mindless. If he comes back as undead it will be greater undead such as a vampire. Why bother to bring him back as undead if he is a mindless wimp? As a vampire (for example) he would get a bunch of powers and retain his class levels. I don't see :redcloak: animating him as a mere skelaton. That is good enough for minions but a waste for someone of :belkar: power.

[brilliantlight]

Celestia, Mechanus, and the Nine Hells aren't the only Lawful planes- there's also Acheron (for those who are almost LE, but not quite), and Arcadia (for those LN close to LG, or LG but close to LN).

That's if Miko didn't go all the way out of Lawful- which seems likely to me.

No, she did what she did for what she thought was lawful reasons. She was trying to maintain order by getting rid of the OTTS which she saw as a chaotic force, at best.

[hamishspence]

What I was trying to say was-

"It seems likely to me, that Miko didn't go all the way out of lawful"

(hence, she was still lawful when she died)

I could be wrong though.

[megabyter5]

Ooh, pick me! Um... Let's see... He gets a cursed Ring of Sustenance that he can never take off so he can't eat or breathe, and he changes his name for tax evasion, and he moves to a coexistent plane and uses TEH MAJIX to affect the material plane, and, and...

No? OK, he just dies.

[LuPuWei]

In a DStP bonus strip, Hinjo tells Belkar that he'll look after Mr Scruffy (strictly speaking, it IS his uncle's cat, after all) when Belkar returns to serve the rest of his prison sentence, so it's possible he'd be willing to provide a permanent home.

Yes, but given how intelligent Scruffy seems, its more of a question of whether he chooses to return to the Azurites (or whether indeed animals are allowed to make choices in a D&D based -verse)

And I'm not talking about a cutesy animal spin-off by Disney called Scruffy & Pals...

[Itous]

hmmmmm he will die in a situation where death has no escape, i think he's going to kill someone during the gladiator tornament, maybe someone high up like a king or something and as a result he gets sentenced to death, in a combat situation belkar can easily match most people, so for him a situation where the only escape is death would probably be..... an execution he would be in one of those big head choppy things erm beheading devices i can't remember what thier called :/

seeing as he can't fight one nor does he have the skill set to really escape.

then again in 666 as i just read Ol'Chlue or how ever you spell his name thanked him for leaving him behind thus he was able to gather his infomation on Xykon's forces, spells etc.......

even though he has been a loose cannon, he's a psychopath and a genocidal maniac, he has still helped fight evil, although being evil himself, and like i said, death changes people.

also what if they do decide to revive him but realise Banjo isn't a powerful enough Diety to do it :o has anyone considered that, i don't think roy was loyal to Banjo and thus was able to be revived.

so ya belkar in theory should be executed i honestly don't see him being bested by someone in a gladiator arena even on a 10 on 1 match, remember he did take out most of the rogues guild when his mark of justice was activated, also, belkar did help save the life of that cleric ok his offer was blunt and short something like

"make you a deal, stick with me and keep healing me and i'll do my best to keep the bad guys off your back" which from what i remember he did.

just saying even at the low levels he took out a room i think it was of Goblin Ninjas and was like "i'm the most bad ass dude around everyone look at me " and there was no one around, even when he fell off the city wall in the battle for Azure City he fell, god knows how far that wall was maybe 60ft, took damage, stood up and still slaughtered a whole company of Hobgoblins or was it goblins i can't remember XD

infact Belkars acts of in the line of duty at good work have gone widely unoticed by the rest of the party.

and in #666 its only Hayley and roy who know the game is up with Belkar, sure Elan says he doesn't care for him, and he's had a friednly rivaly with V but has he done anything to Durkon, the person who's decision it is ultimately to get him revived, in the epic players hand book theres a quest that allows true ressurection to make you mortal by day undead by night, a mishap could turn him into a mindless zombie, which durkon would be obliged to kill? also didn't he ask the oricle if he would kill V and was told yes? isn't it possible we have more then one death to look out for.


also Elan

he's an action hero.
Elan Saves the day by beating his evil twin brother in a duel while V,D, H & R battle it ou with Xykon who could of possibly just thrown Belkar into the Snarl, everyones having thier butts kicked, he turns up, saves the day, gets the girl, everyone wins, Roy has already died once, i think he will die during the fight with Xykon, but elan will kill Xykon with Roy's Gandfarther's sword this a greenhilt did kill Xykon thus releasing the blood oath thing.


anyways shutting up now.


thoughts?

[devinkowalczyk]

Belkar's death has already been foreshadowed, and we're in a situation where he might die.

That's what we know. I suspect this might be a tease to build tension rather than the actual moment of Belkar's death, but...

I wouldn't be surprised if things were set up so that The Giant could kill off Belkar any strip now.

It's just a question of whether or not he feels like doing so

(spoilered for wild comic speculation)

I think that he won't die here but will come teasingly, tantalizingly close.
like
oh no
haha
not really

[Pie Guy]

People, it's obvious! Belkar chokes to death on his birthday cake!

[Nimrod's Son]

an execution he would be in one of those big head choppy things erm beheading devices i can't remember what thier called
Man, it's just as well you don't work for Xykon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html)


also what if they do decide to revive him but realise Banjo isn't a powerful enough Diety to do it :o has anyone considered that, i don't think roy was loyal to Banjo and thus was able to be revived.
What does Banjo have to do with anything? He's a puppet, not a god. And Belkar only worshipped him for all of about seven minutes, before deciding it was a waste of time.


Ol'Chlue or how ever you spell his name
That's a creative attempt, but if I were you I'd try for even more Ls and apostrophes next time. Maybe start with Ol'C'hlul'el and work up from there. :smallwink:

[Flame of Anor]

He'd make most people's top ten, I'll admit.

Considering the party comprises nine people, I'd say yeah... :smallwink:

Six I mean six...*facepalm*

[Itous]

XD looks like iwould of been executed! ROFL

wow man that was epic, i needed a good read, lol thanks. maybe Tsuki will animate him as a dead, she could of hear him being only 3 feet away saying that he would of taken the job if it wasn't for the fact he could throw a cat into peoples faces, a sentient undead isn't exactly an uncommon thing, maybe he will be like skullzy
------------------------------------------------------------------------EDIT



another thing i've just been looking over some of the older comics from when belkar and hayler were in Azure City, i mean what the hell, sure belkar didn't understand the concept of freeing the slaves but thinking about it, Belkar has had to do ALOT of compromising where as the rest of the party end up just putting up with annoying crap, why don't the party compramise just a LITTLE BIT and do things belkars way for a change? or take a few pointers perhaps?

[Darcy]

Yes... the five people trying to stop Xykon and secure the gates should put aside their selfish world-saving wishes and do what their murderer friend wants to do for a change.

[veti]

Yeah, the party that includes Vaarsuvius and Haley should never consider the thoughts of a murderer as valid or important...

[Scarlet Knight]

I am imagining his eulogy now.

"Alas, poor Belkar, he was... a member of our team, technically at least, and he loved cats. A cat. He had a cat friend. I guess that's all there is to say about him without speaking ill of the dead. Does anyone know any high level adventurers looking for a job?"

"Belkar was full of love...love for food. He not only carried fabulous rations, he was a wonderful cook. Few chefs were so creative as to create Vulture stew." :smallsigh:

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, the party that includes Vaarsuvius and Haley should never consider the thoughts of a murderer as valid or important...

Yeah, because since Haley committed one of the same crimes Belkar does means she should automatically take his advice on everything./Sarcasm

[druid91]

V does take Belkar's point of view at times, such as when he suggested that it might have been better just to kill Nale and Co.

[Souhiro]

Well, Belkar's death can be well received by Durkon, who can take his screen time!

[Itous]

i didn't mean they should take belkars advice and follow his lead in a general capacity, i ment in a world saving capacity, in his own ways belkar has played a huge part in saving the world and stopping Xykon.

i ment they should take his advice and do what belkar wants providing they are still pointed at bad guys i think belkars methods would be vastly beneficial, yes, belkar is a huge hack and slash sort by being a murdering psychopath but i mean c'mon the guy took out a whole devision of hobgoblins on his own! put roy next to him, Hayley in a strict vantage point, durkon using thors might and Elan supporting, doing dashing stuff, swinging around and fighting hordes of hundreads of people and winning being a action hero XD

[Darcy]

Yeah, the party that includes Vaarsuvius and Haley should never consider the thoughts of a murderer as valid or important...

V and Haley have killed people under questionable circumstances. Belkar considers it a form of recreation.

I think they've been perfectly willing to let Belkar do his thing when it was appropriate. That's why he's still a part of the group, because he's a killing machine and sometimes they need that. That's not where the conflict is, really.

[Kish]

i ment they should take his advice and do what belkar wants providing they are still pointed at bad guys i think belkars methods would be vastly beneficial,
Really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html)
Belkar's good at killing personally. That in no way translates to skill at group tactics, strategy, or even remembering what they're supposed to be doing.

[Mystic Muse]

i ment they should take his advice and do what belkar wants providing they are still pointed at bad guys i think belkars methods would be vastly beneficial, yes, belkar is a huge hack and slash sort by being a murdering psychopath but i mean c'mon the guy took out a whole devision of hobgoblins on his own! put roy next to him, Hayley in a strict vantage point, durkon using thors might and Elan supporting, doing dashing stuff, swinging around and fighting hordes of hundreads of people and winning being a action hero XD

Roy would be more effective. He could have easily taken out the same amount of Hobgoblins, Possibly more since he has cleave. Buffing Roy makes more sense than buffing Belkar.

[The Giant]

The Voice of Mod: Two threads regarding the same topic, the possible fulfillment of Belkar's death prophecy, have been merged.

[mo123813]

Things wouldnt be the same if he dies

[Ellye]

Having a main character dying during a filler/joke arc (and I can't see this as anything but filler/joke) would be innovative, but a bad kind of innovation. Belkar deserves to die in a more significant way.

[calar]

Yeah, I don't think this arena is plot-significant enough to kill off a PC. Just saying that dramatically, Belkar will be killed in a major fight Against some kind of arch enemy of the Order. OF course Rich had been known to throw convention breaking curves too from time to time, so you never know. There's my bout of Elan logic for you.

[factotum]

I can see a situation in which Belkar's death here would work dramatically:


If he dies literally a couple of panels before Durkon arrives with pardons for the two of them, then that's a dramatic bait and switch which has certainly been used before.

[ThePhantasm]

This scene wouldn't be dramatic enough for Belkar's death. Belkar has been used to great effect in dramatic battle scenes where lots of things are at stake (Azure City, Blind Pete's) so I think his death will occur at a similar, climactic scene. I don't expect it to happen until close to the end of this book.

[kolbaldoracle]

hey the oracles exact word were A) he should stop funding his IRA. B) he will draw his last breath before the end of the year. C) he should saver his next birthday cake. this doent mean he will die, it cuold mean he just gets teleported to another plane where you dont have to breathe.

[Mystic Muse]

hey the oracles exact word were A) he should stop funding his IRA. B) he will draw his last breath before the end of the year. C) he should saver his next birthday cake. this doent mean he will die, it cuold mean he just gets teleported to another plane where you dont have to breathe.

Yes, it's possible. However, it'd be rather bad story telling.

[Kish]

hey the oracles exact word were A) he should stop funding his IRA. B) he will draw his last breath before the end of the year. C) he should saver his next birthday cake. this doent mean he will die, it cuold mean he just gets teleported to another plane where you dont have to breathe.
Certainly that's possible. It strikes me as unlikely, however, and it gets no love from the people who want him to stay in the story because a one-way ticket to another plane would take him out of the story as effectively as death would, in the long term.

(If anyone thinks the story's focus is going to shift permanently to a plane where halflings don't have to breathe, I have a 500 GP bet waiting for you.)

[Fable Wright]

Ring of sustenance. Then he no longer needs to breathe, and remains on the material plane. And possibly, he gets a job offer from death, where he gets to live indefinitely for helping him out so much. :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

Ring of sustenance. Then he no longer needs to breathe, and remains on the material plane.

No one's ever proposed this idea which ignores the "not long for the world" prediction before.

[Fable Wright]

...forgot that part... Where is it?

[Nimrod's Son]

...forgot that part... Where is it?
Third panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

[iDM]

Belkar's going to die, and there is nothing anyone can do to change that. He won't die in the arena, because Tarquin's posters imply that ALL of the gladiators will fight, and that won't last for 5 weeks. Neither can he die at the end, because there isn't enough time.

-----EDIT-----
I think that it would be a great ending for Belkar if Elan accidentally hurt Mr. Scruffy, and then Belkar tries to kill Elan, prompting Roy to kill Belkar to stop him, because that would really solidify Roy and Elan's character development as a pair. Because I believe that on some level, Roy sees Elan as a sort of replacement for Eric.

[brilliantlight]

I can see a situation in which Belkar's death here would work dramatically:


If he dies literally a couple of panels before Durkon arrives with pardons for the two of them, then that's a dramatic bait and switch which has certainly been used before.


I think that is quite possible.

[137beth]

I think that is quite possible.

Yea, it would still be totally anticlimatic. As far as we know, belkar hasn't celebrated his "next birthday" the way the oracle predicted. And if he gets killed in the arena, it will be by some random gladiator and not a major villain. Think about it, we have had ONE pc death, killed by xykon. Miko was killed in the closing of the story arc of an entire book. Linear guild deaths so far have all been in fights against PCs (or otherwise caused by pcs, like Varsuvius citing that z'ditri was a copyright infringement. Belkar isn't going to fall to some nameless gladiator.

[factotum]

Yea, it would still be totally anticlimatic. As far as we know, belkar hasn't celebrated his "next birthday" the way the oracle predicted.

I doubt we're going to see him do that...chances are it's already happened off-camera. And the Oracle never predicted that Belkar would celebrate his next birthday, he merely said that he should savour his next birthday cake--just another way of saying he's only going to get one more.

[Trixie]

No one's ever proposed this idea which ignores the "not long for the world" prediction before.

...not long for this world...

He'll simply move to the other one, inside the Snarl :smallamused:

Sadly, they haven't invented cakes nor retirement funds there yet, but they like fine arts, so Belkar will shock them into accepting him with his masterpiece, drawn in crayons, the "Last Breath" of Roy, Miko, stupid horse and Oracle :P

[Bongos]

No cakes in Snarl world? No wonder the Snarl is so angry!

[Lord Vukodlak]

Belkar might not die. There are ways to fulfill the prophesy without Belkar dieing. Like the ring of sustenance. He wouldn't have to breathe. :smalltongue:

The ring of sustenance provides life-sustaining nourishment, air is generally not considered nourishment.

Alright here is how Belkar can fulfill both aspects of the prophecy, draw his last breath ever AND not long for this world without dying.
His name is changed to Bob[or anything else], doubly so if he actually undergoes an alignment change, even his faking it could qualify if he doesn't stop.

Considering the Oracles logic
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html

The Oracle has yet to use the word killed, death or died. My guess is Belkar will undergo a change and the Oracle will justify his prophecy by saying he's no longer Belkar from 200 strips ago.


Its safe to say his pro

[Kish]

Considering the Oracles logic
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html
You mean the, "You're going to cause the death of the Oracle of the Sunken Valley by stabbing him with your daggers" logic?

[electricbee]

What if Belkar's fake character growth were to accidentally become real character growth (perhaps due to threat to Mr. Scruffy).

Could it follow that "The bitter evil Hafling that i knew ceased to exist that day, and in his place was born a powerful devoted force for good." So what the oracle said was true 'from a certain point of view'

[factotum]

That would be suckage to end all suckage if the Giant pulled a bait and switch like that...I personally believe him to be a better writer than that would imply! :smallannoyed:

[Lord Vukodlak]

You mean the, "You're going to cause the death of the Oracle of the Sunken Valley by stabbing him with your daggers" logic?

No I mean the logic of how he cause the death of Roy, Miko and her horse logic.

[Kish]

No I mean the logic of how he cause the death of Roy, Miko and her horse logic.
Which the Oracle explicitly said, at the end, he wasn't buying himself?

People who cite that as an example of the Oracle's prophecies being tricky always ignore what the actual fulfillment of that prophecy was. Belkar's permanent death will, indeed, be as tricky as Belkar stabbing the Oracle.

[PallElendro]

Ring of sustenance.

Don't you mean the Ioun Stone of Sustenance.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Which the Oracle explicitly said, at the end, he wasn't buying himself?

People who cite that as an example of the Oracle's prophecies being tricky always ignore what the actual fulfillment of that prophecy was. Belkar's permanent death will, indeed, be as tricky as Belkar stabbing the Oracle.

Your ignoring his run around prediction because he made a strait forward one. How does Belkar stabbing the oracle in the chest effect the prediction he'd cause the deaths of Roy, Miko and her horse? Either the oracle can make tricky prophecies, he can lie, or he can be wrong. In any of the above cases it means we can't take any prediction at face value until it comes true.

In short, making a straight forward prediction does not erase the tricky one, it just makes them even more suspects. If you know the prophecy is going to try to trick you then you know not to take it at face value, but if some of them are strait forward in their execution[no pun intended] then you can't be sure.

So maybe the prediction means Belkar will die his final death or maybe he'll be hurled back in time a thousand years making his last breath long after he died of old age two centuries ago.
I'd trust Belkar before the Oracle.

[the Riddler]

Is it just me, or are all these "Omg Belkar's gonna die" threads really starting to smell funny? :confused:

[Mystic Muse]

Belkar's exact words were "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following. Roy, Miko, Miko's stupid horse or you" The Oracle answered "Yes" and Belkar killed the Oracle. His prophecy was fulfilled in a very straightforward manner. The only reason the Oracle brought those other ones up is because he didn't want to be killed.

[Kish]

Your ignoring his run around prediction because he made a strait forward one.

Almost, except for the misuse of "your." I'm treating his fake explanations for the single prophecy under discussion (that Belkar would cause the death of Roy, Vaarsuvius, Miko, Windstriker, or the Oracle) having come true as fake, because...they were fake. He also told Haley how to regain her voice, Vaarsuvius how s/he would get ultimate arcane power, Roy that Xykon would go for Girard's Gate before Kraagor's Gate, and Eugene Greenhilt that "Xykon" was the name of the sorcerer who killed Master Fyron, along with other things that haven't come true yet. Mysteriously, he hasn't made any prophecies that are established as untrue.

Let me make this simple. Twenty gold says Belkar's a goner.

[Lord Loss]

One basic thing we,re forgetting. The Oracle was using subtle hints to say the halfling was goanna bite it. The Oracle wouldn't have hinted at him becoming some awesome Archfiend because that would be positive for Belkar and the Oracle was taunting him.

[Nimrod's Son]

Is it just me, or are all these "Omg Belkar's gonna die" threads really starting to smell funny? :confused:
Smells like undead to me. :smallwink:

[Morty]

Your ignoring his run around prediction because he made a strait forward one.

The fact that the explanations about Belkar causing the death of Roy, Miko and Windstriker were full of nonsense and Belkar causing the Oracle's death by stabbing him in the guts was as straightforward as you can get is a pretty good reason to ignore the former. Especially when we take into consideration that the rest of Oracle's prophecies have been true so far. If anything, the Oracle seems to give answers that are too specific - such as Xykon's location being "In the throne room".

[Kislath]

You guys haven't figured out yet why all of these Star Wars references are flying about?

*sigh*

There's your clue, if just think about it. Belkar's fate is obvious, if... backward.

[Kish]

You guys haven't figured out yet why all of these Star Wars references are flying about?

The purpose of humor is humor.



*sigh*

There's your clue, if just think about it. Belkar's fate is obvious, if... backward.
You mean, "There's your clue, if you're looking for a way Belkar can survive"?

I hope you eat that sigh when he dies.

I hope in vain, I suspect; certainly when Miko didn't become a blackguard none of the "you're an idiot if you don't see that Miko's going to become a blackguard" people popped up to say, "Oh, whoops, I was wrong."

[Silver Swift]

Almost, except for the misuse of "your." I'm treating his fake explanations for the single prophecy under discussion (that Belkar would cause the death of Roy, Vaarsuvius, Miko, Windstriker, or the Oracle) having come true as fake, because...they were fake. He also told Haley how to regain her voice, Vaarsuvius how s/he would get ultimate arcane power, Roy that Xykon would go for Girard's Gate before Kraagor's Gate, and Eugene Greenhilt that "Xykon" was the name of the sorcerer who killed Master Fyron, along with other things that haven't come true yet. Mysteriously, he hasn't made any prophecies that are established as untrue.

Let me make this simple. Twenty gold says Belkar's a goner.

Well, the answer he gave Roy on his first visit definitely counts as iffy (answering the question "where is Xykon?" with "In his throne room") and he definitely didn't get the answer he was looking for on his second visit so there is some precedent for the oracle being sneaky with his prophecies (although I suppose the first is more wiseass than sneaky and the second one is really more Roy's fault than anything else).

Definitely not going to take that bet or anything, Belkar is a goner, just wanted to point out that dodgy prophesies are not totally unheard of in Oots-world.

[Morty]

Well, the answer he gave Roy on his first visit definitely counts as iffy (answering the question "where is Xykon?" with "In his throne room") and he definitely didn't get the answer he was looking for on his second visit so there is some precedent for the oracle being sneaky with his prophecies (although I suppose the first is more wiseass than sneaky and the second one is really more Roy's fault than anything else).


Note that while the Oracle was being sneaky and intentionally useless, the prediction was painfully accurate. "In the throneroom" is as absolutely straightforward and unambigous since Xykon was in the throneroom.

[Kish]

Well, the answer he gave Roy on his first visit definitely counts as iffy (answering the question "where is Xykon?" with "In his throne room")

In the opposite direction from that which people use to speculate Belkar can escape. The Oracle was overly literal, not overly metaphorical.

and he definitely didn't get the answer he was looking for on his second visit

Because he carefully phrased his question in such a way that the Oracle, who wanted to say "Azure City," couldn't do so as an answer to the question he asked. This is also an argument against the Oracle not actually meaning Belkar will cease to be in the world and cease to breathe, not for it.

[AtopTheMountain]

Okay, here's my theory.
Per the Oracle's advice, he stops funding his IRA.

The Irish Republican Army, angry that he has stopped giving them money, comes and shoots him.

[/stupidity]

[Lord Loss]

My thoughts, in order of likeliness

A) Belkar Bites it. Plain and simple, good-bye, hasta la vista.

B) Belkar gets sucked into the snarl.

C) Belkar becomes one of those force-ghosts, à-la-Obi-Wan.