[3.5] Bug World

[Autonomy]

I'm putting together a lil homebrew setting at the moment based around the notion of world without mammals - only insects and reptiles (and whatever underwater gribblies I like). Now, PCs can still play humans (and the few other standard races I may allow) as in the dark and distant past their race arrived as refugees from another plane but I'm struggling to come up with decent substitutions for standard working animals - horses, dogs, etc. Any suggestions or pointers on where'd be good to start looking?

I was planning to run wild with the Insectile (from Savage Species) and Arachnid templates but all I'd be doing is having a poisonous horse with 8 lags legs and a funny name which seems to miss the point somewhat.

Things to bear in mind:-
- its a no magic setting, I'm replacing the lot with psionics, so we don't have to worry about familiars (and if anyone has any suggestions for psionic versions of paladins and rangers, they'd be greatly appreciated).
- I'm going the E6 route, so uberpowered critters are surplus to requirements.

Thanks.

[Ponderthought]

You could try the avatar method of hybrid creatures. Or other things.. what about birds?

[Callos_DeTerran]

What kind of environments are you looking at?

[Lysander]

Perhaps make homebrew rules so that monstrous vermin are as easy to train as animals. Giant Ants could be used as pack animals for instance.

Also, this is a little off topic but have you considered adapting Formians to be an intelligent insect species?

[Autonomy]

@Ponderthought: where's or what is the avatar method? Not something I've come across and a quick google isn't helping.

@Callos: I was planning to keep to fairly Earth standard environments, probably base most of the game in something analogous to a Mediterranean climate to stop the lizards freezing.

[Fax Celestis]

Dromites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/dromite.htm). Lots of dromites.

I had a hive in one of my games made up of a single hive of bred insectoids. Umber hulks for laborers, dromites for leaders, different kinds of formic for various other things... More detail here (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=The_Many).

[Autonomy]

Perhaps make homebrew rules so that monstrous vermin are as easy to train as animals. Giant Ants could be used as pack animals for instance.

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking about, my main problem is that I feel insects are simply too unintelligent to be trained for most purposes. The Giant Ants would work, but for warhorses I was thinking reptiles of some sort. Essentially I'm fishing for obscure gribblies you guys may have come across that may allow for interesting possibilities.


Also, this is a little off topic but have you considered adapting Formians to be an intelligent insect species?

Yeah, I'm going to be using them, and dwarves, gnomes and halflings with the insectile template for my (probably NPC only) intelligent insect species.

@Fax Celestis: Not really in need for sentients, its the rest of the ecosystem I'm trying to build ;) But the Many looks quite well thought out and should spawn some useful reactions in my brain meat.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

First off, this absolutely intrigues me. To support great big bugs, assuming the biology is similar to this planet, they'll need a lot more oxygen. That's why we have no more giant bugs, since the ice age the oxygen in the atmosphere went way down.

Thus this world should be plant central. Very green, very oxygenated. I might give mammals a +2 bonus to Con checks (though not hp) due to this environment.

As for creatures, so many potential ideas. For races, have you ever read the Bas-Lag books? One is a insectile-type race who builds with its saliva. Strong, strange looking structures that can be crafted any way they like.

Everything in your word will likely lay eggs, so that may be a large part of this alien life. There is no birth, only hatching.

Here is some of my personal homebrew you may find of interest.

Races
Glöi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115814)
Trlleetrlaa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134937)

Monsters/LA races
I think the Cricketman and Rememdians will be of particular interest.

Burl Tortoise (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41279)
Canopy Scorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=712210&postcount=3)
Cricketman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=789498#post789498)
Giant Cowkiller Wasp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4986257#post4986257)
Horrid Earwig (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3410995&postcount=10)
Rememdian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76126)
Splittermaw (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21320)
Tutelasenti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8701398#post8701398)
Vicious Longleg swarm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73300)

Edit: Oh and the Blossom Domain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93959) and it's subsequent spells might also interest you.

[Ponderthought]

@Ponderthought: where's or what is the avatar method? Not something I've come across and a quick google isn't helping

That would be the animals from the series Avatar.. almost any of the animals featured are hybrids, like eel hounds and buzzard wasps. So the method would be finding to animals and combining them, and seeing if the result would be useful.

In other news, just looking at the topic gave me a few ideas:

Giant basilisk lizard mounts. So fast they can skip across the surface of the water, and are similar enough to a horse to be ridden. Ditto with different types of birds if your using avians.

Huge scarab beetles for both riding and pulling carts or being pack animals.

Dog sized monitor lizards or flightless birds for companions and guards.

More intelligent dragon flies for message carriers.

Hives of wasps bred to recognize their owners race (just race, wasps are pretty mindless) and attack enemies.

Edit; I just had a brilliant idea! Insects arent so smart, really, but many communicate with the use of pheromones. Thus intelligent races could "program" them to recognize certain pheromones as master or enemy. Thus training them becomes simple, even if they are mostly mindless

Edit edit; somebody suggested the same idea while I was typing it. Dammit all. Great minds think alike.

[Coplantor]

Things to bear in mind:-
- its a no magic setting, I'm replacing the lot with psionics, so we don't have to worry about familiars (and if anyone has any suggestions for psionic versions of paladins and rangers, they'd be greatly appreciated).
- I'm going the E6 route, so uberpowered critters are surplus to requirements.

Thanks.

With all the emphasis on NO mammals... that really made me laugh.

I second the dromites, psionic little bugs go well with your idea, also, consider the Githanyting races, they look a bit... reptiloid and have psionic backgrounds and OMG I almost forgot about the thri kreen! They are awesome, use them.

[Lysander]

Perhaps mindless species of insects can be controlled and manipulated through use of pheremones. For example, you'd coat your army with a chemical that makes them smell like a species of giant ant. Then release giant ants onto the battlefield. They'd attack everyone, but spare your army since they would register as fellow giant ants.

[Fax Celestis]

Perhaps mindless species of insects can be controlled and manipulated through use of pheremones. For example, you'd coat your army with a chemical that makes them smell like a species of giant ant. Then release giant ants onto the battlefield. They'd attack everyone, but spare your army since they would register as fellow giant ants.

...this is not Half-Life 2, and these are not antlions.

[FelixG]

The Arachnid Empire

http://www.amazon.com/Starship-Troopers-RPG-Arachnid-Empire/dp/1905176260

Its a d20 book with all kinds of fun bugs in it stated out with environments tactics and life cycles, if you need a bug based campaign look no further! :D

[Analytica]

Have a look at the Dark Sun monsters found on athas.org.

Psionic ranger, and really most other things you might need for psionics, from Dreamscarred:

http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/ranger

[thompur]

One of the frw things I liked in MMII: Abiels(Bee people).
And don't forget, it's a fantasy setting. So all female bug people gotta have the boobies!(no nipples, just boobies):smallwink:

[Warpwolf16]

I did a Hive Mind using Thri-Kreen, by adding templates to making different caste. Worker's, Scout's, Hunter's, and most of all living siege engines. Though the siege engines ended up looking up like Umber Hulk.

[Eloel]

Ok, seriously. He needs a non-mammal mount, and noone suggested dinosaurs? I'm disappointed.

[sciencepanda]

Terror Birds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhachid) would probably also make good mounts.

[Lysander]

Ok, seriously. He needs a non-mammal mount, and noone suggested dinosaurs? I'm disappointed.

You are a genius. How about using the deinonychus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus) in the place of horses?

[Lyndworm]

There are a bunch of Riding Lizards in Drow of the Underdark, as well as a bunch of vermin-centric feats and monsters. Look through the MMs and the Eberron books for Dinosaur stat, they should help immensely with beasts of burden and such.

Don't overlook the Diopsid as beetlefolk or the Crucian as another kind of reptilefolk. You could also reflavor the Raptoran into waspfolk or pterrasaurfolk.

If push comes to shove, just reflavor everything. Use the stats for Horses and give them a bite and claws; call them riding lizards. Use the stats for Dire Wolves and strip their Int score; call them Giant Tiger Beetles. With minor adjustments, Apes can become thin and wiry with long serpentine tails that constrict opponents while their Keepers close in for the kill.

[hamishspence]

"It's an ugly planet, it's a Bug planet- it's a planet inhospitable to humanoid life...." :smallbiggrin:

I like this concept.

[FelixG]

"It's an ugly planet, it's a Bug planet- it's a planet inhospitable to humanoid life...." :smallbiggrin:

I like this concept.

se my above post, the bugs are kinda hard for troopers but work surprisingly well for DnD heros to fight! /me has run it before lol :smallamused:

[Zen Master]

Well - Dark Sun has a lot of lizards and insects. Look here (http://www.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r72/mouthymerc/mekillot.jpg&imgrefurl=http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19840750/%3Fpg%3Dlast&usg=__AOy7lyLizs-YVWcvmMU7TJDmSkE=&h=483&w=800&sz=320&hl=da&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=FE4hBH0j6gujYM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddark%2Bsun%2Bmekillot%26hl%3Dda%26saf e%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DPQW%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:da:official%26tbs %3Disch:1).

In order of size:

Kank - docile kinda horse bug
Inix - larger lizard mount
Crodlu - basically a ridingraptor, like in Eberron
Mekillot - giant beetles that pull war wagons (or cargo ditto)

I'm pretty sure there was some flying insect too. I forget what it's called tho.

Hm. This is all 2e btw. I've no clue if these things are included in later versions.

[Lysander]

Here's a giant flying insect that already has rules for being used as a mount:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm

[Autonomy]

First off, this absolutely intrigues me.

And this is only one element of the setting I'm designing, in fact, Bug World is merely a ramification of larger setting choices. There's an Archmage and he's created a demi plane designed to be free from rivals, and decided that in addition to the anti magic field embedded into this reality he'd remove the chance of beings powerful enough to threaten him to evolve. I'll post a writeup in Homebrew when its more coherent and fully fleshed.


To support great big bugs, assuming the biology is similar to this planet, they'll need a lot more oxygen.

An interesting point and one that creates some choices for making the setting more distinct. I'll avoid the CON bonus though, as I'll be using Bug World as the base line, so instead (I want to use the word furries to break up the use of mammals but...) mammals off Bug World will suffer a CON penalty. Same for fire effects etc, use the standard values when at home and have a penalty on the few off world hijinks that may occur. I'm not sure about the plants idea and may just handwave where all this oxygen is coming from.



One is a insectile-type race who builds with its saliva. Strong, strange looking structures that can be crafted any way they like.

Oh yes. And structures made out of the husks of other bugs (can't remember if that's from the real world or ripped from Aliens) glued in place with the stuff. Much ickiness shall ensue.


Everything in your word will likely lay eggs, so that may be a large part of this alien life. There is no birth, only hatching.

Not everything. Players will be mammals - descendants of extraplanar refugees - and there'll be a few mammals that survived introduction into the wild in the past. The eggs thing is groovy, and has spawned a slightly disgusting replacement for the chicken; the queen from a species of relatively passive ants that produce eggs at a rapid rate. A chicken farmer would thus have to keep a queen and a selection of male/soldier bugs to impregnate it and the farmer would have to take them before they could be chemically activated into non-worker eggs. Or lizards for the wealthy or weak of stomach.


Here is some of my personal homebrew you may find of interest.

Thanks. I'll check them out.


How about using the deinonychus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus) in the place of horses?

Sweet. And now I have my war horses, and will probably use modified monitor lizards for for lighter horses and draught-horses. I'm going to keep insect mounts relatively rare / expensive as they require psionically enhanced training, adding another status symbol for the humanoid societies to the setting.


...(A bunch of useful stuff)

If push comes to shove, just reflavor everything. Use the stats for Horses and give them a bite and claws; call them riding lizards. Use the stats for Dire Wolves and strip their Int score; call them Giant Tiger Beetles. With minor adjustments, Apes can become thin and wiry with long serpentine tails that constrict opponents while their Keepers close in for the kill.

Of course, I'm just trying to avoid having to reinvent the wheel and sometimes you come across critters with interesting and distinctive mechanical effects (and best of all logical repercussions to the setting) which add to that level of the game. I'm still trying to work out what happens if you have a poisonous bug in place of hunting dogs (via a very crude method, dog + arachnoid template). Can you eat the meat? Must it be treated first, or just allowed to hang? Do you train the bug to hold back its poison, or milk it? And technically the dog thing now has an INT of -...

@ FelixG, Analysis, Acromos: thanks for those, the psionics and Dark Sun reference will come in very handy, and I'm sure the Starship Troopers book will rock.

[Dr.Epic]

Was any of this planned while watching Starship Troopers?

[Autonomy]

As much as I love that film, this was in no way inspired by it. I'm just going to rob mercilessly from it.

[mobdrazhar]

Yuan-Ti anyone?

[Eloel]

Hilarity ensues as the Fleshraker Dinosaurs become the norm for war mounts. For information on dinosaur mounts, check Eberron halflings. Secrets of Sarlona (the 1/2ling god) is bound to provide information.