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TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 01:05 AM
So, I am making a Dread Necromancer + Bard + Dire Singer + etc., and I need all the charisma I can get my hands on.

What races benefit charisma or give massive charismatic bonuses or would work really well with my intended build?

zenanarchist
2010-07-21, 01:10 AM
So, I am making a Dread Necromancer + Bard + Dire Singer + etc., and I need all the charisma I can get my hands on.

What races benefit charisma or give massive charismatic bonuses or would work really well with my intended build?

Homebrew allowed? Cos I've got a major bonus for you!

Herald (In my sig I think) is a +2 cha +2 Str race
Winged (Template-Homebrew section) is a +2 Cha race with fly and 3 flying abilities.

EDIT: Neither of those are in my sig. I forgot my sig was too long.

Check my recent posts.

Vulaas
2010-07-21, 01:11 AM
Lesser Aasimar is +2 wis +2 cha, and great for Dread Necromancers who want some Arcane Disciple fun.

Also, it's a template, but Half-fey is a lot of fun for charisma based characters.

Edit: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds.

zenanarchist
2010-07-21, 01:14 AM
Lesser Aasimar is +2 wis +2 cha, and great for Dread Necromancers who want some Arcane Disciple fun.

Also, it's a template, but Half-fey is a lot of fun for charisma based characters.

Edit: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds.

People have gotta stop with the kobold shenannigans! Quit it Mr.

cupkeyk
2010-07-21, 01:17 AM
Star Elves? i think. +2 Cha, -2Con

Shadowleaf
2010-07-21, 01:17 AM
Spellscales get +2 Cha -2 Con as well, IIRC.

Optimystik
2010-07-21, 01:18 AM
Spellscales are also -2 Con, +2 Cha.

Do you mind LA? There are fey that get plenty, e.g. Pixies and Petals.

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 01:19 AM
Lesser Aasimar is +2 wis +2 cha, and great for Dread Necromancers who want some Arcane Disciple fun.

where is this?

cupkeyk
2010-07-21, 01:19 AM
last section of PGtF

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-21, 01:21 AM
People have gotta stop with the kobold shenannigans! Quit it Mr.

That is not Kobold shenanigans. You want Kobold shenanigans, you add your choice of Loredrake, Whitedragon Spawn, and Spellhoarding. Just straight Dragonwrought is far from cheddar.



where is this?

The "lesser" modification to planetouched is found within the Player's Guide to Faerun. The skinny is, you become humanoid and your LA drops by 1.

zenanarchist
2010-07-21, 01:25 AM
That is not Kobold shenanigans. You want Kobold shenanigans, you add your choice of Loredrake, Whitedragon Spawn, and Spellhoarding. Just straight Dragonwrought is far from cheddar.




If you take dragonwrought you know exactly what that's leading to! Don't claim no cheddar on a race built like a cheddar factory when that feat is added. :smalltongue:

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 01:28 AM
If you take dragonwrought you know exactly what that's leading to! Don't claim no cheddar on a race built like a cheddar factory when that feat is added. :smalltongue:

Please do enlighten my virgin ears to the charismatic madness which is dragonwrought kobolds... but be gentle...

zenanarchist
2010-07-21, 01:30 AM
As thrice said...Not so bad JUST as a dragonwrought kobold....But it's so abuseable it's not funny. However if you aren't full of cheesy goodness. Take it by all means

Lev
2010-07-21, 01:31 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicitems/wondrousitems.htm#cloakofCharisma

Greenish
2010-07-21, 01:37 AM
Please do enlighten my virgin ears to the charismatic madness which is dragonwrought kobolds... but be gentle...Dragonborn Dragonwrought means you won't take penalties from aging, but the bonuses still accumulate. That means that a venerable (or "great wyrm" by kobold age categories) kobold gets free +3 to all mental stats.

That's the non-abusive part.

Dragonwrought also changes your type to Dragon, and because the designers never thought there'd be playable +0 LA no-RHD dragons, they have all sorts of funny stuff they can gain essentially free. They qualify for epic feats, sovereign archetypes (the most famous of which is Loredrake, two free levels of sorcerer casting) and dragonic psychoses.

[Edit]

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 01:45 AM
Dragonborn means you won't take penalties from aging, but the bonuses still accumulate. That means that a venerable (or "great wyrm" by kobold age categories) kobold gets free +3 to all mental stats.

That's the non-abusive part.

Dragonwrought also changes your type to Dragon, and because the designers never thought there'd be playable +0 LA no-RHD dragons, they have all sorts of funny stuff they can gain essentially free. They qualify for epic feats, sovereign archetypes (the most famous of which is Loredrake, two free levels of sorcerer casting) and dragonic psychoses.

Charismatic spasgasm.

Rixx
2010-07-21, 01:46 AM
I have a homebrew race, the "Charismator", a planetouched from the Elemental Plane of Charisma. It provides a +8 racial bonus on Charisma that scales with level (an additional +2 per hit die).

cupkeyk
2010-07-21, 01:49 AM
I have a homebrew race, the "Charismator", a planetouched from the Elemental Plane of Charisma. It provides a +8 racial bonus on Charisma that scales with level (an additional +2 per hit die).

this is a joke right? But you link that please?

Rixx
2010-07-21, 01:54 AM
Sorry, it's closed content; it's going to go in my new 3rd party supplement, "Seriously, More Planetouched".

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-21, 01:57 AM
I can't say "Derro" enough. Sure, they're a CE race that are born with incurable insanity, but +4 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Cha and -6 Wis, with SR 15, 3HD and NO LA is pretty good. The penalty being for every hour you spend in sunlight, you lose a point of constitution.

Edit: I forgot, when a Derro applies poison to a weapon they can't accidentally poison themselves.

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 02:00 AM
I can't say "Derro" enough. Sure, they're a CE race that are born with incurable insanity, but +4 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Cha and -6 Wis, with SR 15, 3HD and NO LA is pretty good. The penalty being for every hour you spend in sunlight, you lose a point of constitution.

...THIS IS PERFECT! Where is it?

Greenish
2010-07-21, 02:02 AM
...THIS IS PERFECT! Where is it?SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/derro.htm). The problem: they have LA -- when insane and +2 when sane.

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-21, 02:08 AM
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/derro.htm). The problem: they have LA -- when insane and +2 when sane.

Hence you should NEVER play a sane Derro: The +2 level adjustment, and awkward backstory creation as you could only be made sane by a Miracle or a Wish.

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 02:23 AM
New Question: How can you "properly" play as a Derro? One of the GM's i know declares it impossible.

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-21, 02:37 AM
New Question: How can you "properly" play as a Derro? One of the GM's i know declares it impossible.

It is, admittedly, difficult. I am going to be playing one in the near future, and they don't fit in with a huge variety of campaign types. Their Sneak Attack is nice, especially with their Spell-Like Abilities sweetening the deal.

In regards to RP etc, the MM suggests that Derro have vast superiority complexes, and fervently try to commit genocide on all other sentient races. A contempt for other party members would be essential if you were to go down this road. An alternative, and one which I am using, is to think that Diirinka (God of Derro) is speaking to you in your head, and telling you to commit murderous and unspeakable acts on others.

Derro are a, for want of a better word, horrific race. They take great pleasure and amusement in taking slaves from the surface-world, and enjoy torturing them immensely. This does mean that they are a bit... Strange, if you were in a campaign focused on the party doing good deeds. If you aren't, however, then a CN/CE Derro could be a good choice.

TechnOkami
2010-07-21, 02:43 AM
This does mean that they are a bit... Strange, if you were in a campaign focused on the party doing good deeds. If you aren't, however, then a CN/CE Derro could be a good choice.

Well, what I plan to make is with the classes listed above, my funny interpretation of a plague doctor. The "madness" is that he only says plague and not, and he is utterly obsessed with plague. The getting killed by the sun I can dodge because Plague Doctors are covered from head to toe in light blocking stuff. And since charisma will be my stat of focus, the being able to use cha for will saves over wis is just ridiculously good for me.

sonofzeal
2010-07-21, 02:45 AM
The "Magic-blooded" template gives -2 Wis, +2 Cha. And is LA+0 and doesn't make you visibly monstrous IIRC. Might help.

Greenish
2010-07-21, 02:50 AM
Hence you should NEVER play a sane Derro: The +2 level adjustment, and awkward backstory creation as you could only be made sane by a Miracle or a Wish.Technically, you can't play an insane derro. LA is not the same as LA +0.

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-21, 02:53 AM
Technically, you can't play an insane derro. LA is not the same as LA +0.

Surely LA --- means that the Level Adjustment is non-existant?

sonofzeal
2010-07-21, 02:55 AM
Surely LA --- means that the Level Adjustment is non-existant?
No. Just.... no.

"LA 0" is no LA. "LA -" is legally unplayable. Great Wyrm Red Dragons have "LA -". Balors have "LA -".

Please tell me you were joking there.....

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-21, 02:58 AM
No. Just.... no.

"LA 0" is no LA. "LA -" is legally unplayable. Great Wyrm Red Dragons have "LA -". Balors have "LA -".

Please tell me you were joking there.....

Hmm, that is true. In that case, either don't play Derro at all, because LA +2 and 3 HD for an overall ECL of 6 with a class level isn't really worth it, or try desperately to get a GM to allow it with no LA :smalltongue:

Telonius
2010-07-21, 07:22 AM
Hmm, that is true. In that case, either don't play Derro at all, because LA +2 and 3 HD for an overall ECL of 6 with a class level isn't really worth it, or try desperately to get a GM to allow it with no LA :smalltongue:

It's much worse than you think.

Madness (Ex)

Derro use their Charisma modifier on Will saves instead of their Wisdom modifier, and have immunity to confusion and insanity effects. A derro cannot be restored to sanity by any means short of a miracle or wish spell.

*The racial madness of the derro provides a +6 bonus to their Charisma scores and a -6 penalty to their Wisdom scores. A derro restored to sanity gains 6 points of Wisdom and loses 6 points of Charisma

So, for the low, low price of +2LA and 3 racial hit dice, you get free sneak attack, poison use, at-will darkness, a couple other useless SLAs, and take Con damage whenever the sun is shining. :smallyuk:

Fayd
2010-07-21, 07:41 AM
New Question: How can you "properly" play as a Derro? One of the GM's i know declares it impossible.

My DM puts them in rolling metal tanks and has them speak, oddly... I'm sure I've got a picture of his reference around here somewhere... Wanting to kill all other races, generally being really nasty...

EDIT: AHA! Here it is!
http://www.specter-web.com/cm/audio/graphics/dalek.jpg

Person_Man
2010-07-21, 11:05 AM
FYI, the Undead you raise with your Song of Awakening only last as long as you keep Performing. Maintaining your performance is a Standard Action. So you won't have an opportunity to heal your undead with the Dread Necromancer's Charnal Touch. While Rebuke Undead would arguably still be useful, you can get that with one level of Cleric instead, with the added bonus of 2 Domain powers and better armor. So Bard 1/Cleric 1/Whatever 3/Dirge Singer 5, instead of Bard/Dread Necro/DS 5.

And may I ask, what's the allure of Dire Singer for you in the first place? If you want to Animate the dead, why not just pick any of the dozen or so classes that can cast Animate Dead? Or if you're hung up about the moderate cost of black onyx gems, why not play an Incarnate instead?

G3N3R3L GHOST
2010-07-21, 11:11 AM
I have a homebrew race, the "Charismator", a planetouched from the Elemental Plane of Charisma. It provides a +8 racial bonus on Charisma that scales with level (an additional +2 per hit die).

Well if that's easy it is to be a homebrewer I am going to make a race that can kill anything in one hit from the Elemental Plane of Whoop Ass.

Other than that Lesser Aasimar is good, what I always use for the dread necromancer along with magic items to give it a little bit more of a boost.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-21, 11:16 AM
Jaebrin and Catfolk both have +2 Cha and have many tasty abilities for a low +1 LA.


FYI, the Undead you raise with your Song of Awakening only last as long as you keep Performing. Maintaining your performance is a Standard Action. So you won't have an opportunity to heal your undead with the Dread Necromancer's Charnal Touch.
There are spells and items however that continue your music to allow you to take other actions.

Caphi
2010-07-21, 11:19 AM
Well if that's easy it is to be a homebrewer I am going to make a race that can kill anything in one hit from the Elemental Plane of Whoop Ass.

I'd love to see the rules text for this.

Can of Whoop Ass (Ex): As a standard action, the badaasimar can open a can of whoop ass upon his enemy...

That would almost be as good as "Once per encounter, you may take your turn as an immediate action."

gallagher
2010-07-21, 11:21 AM
i know a guy who played a derro who was constantly dominated and had something done to him that made him think that we, his technical captors, were the voices in his head. it was fun until he tried to kill us to stop the voices

G3N3R3L GHOST
2010-07-21, 11:23 AM
I'd love to see the rules text for this.

Can of Whoop Ass (Ex): As a standard action, the badaasimar can open a can of whoop ass upon his enemy...

That would almost be as good as "Once per encounter, you may take your turn as an immediate action."

Lmao, That would be a pretty good write up. I cannot tell if you are joining me on the sarcasm in this case if so good man. Some things that people do just don't make sense to me. Thus a Can of Whoop Ass extraordinary ability seems to fit into their little worlds.

Caphi
2010-07-21, 11:25 AM
Lmao, That would be a pretty good write up. I cannot tell if you are joining me on the sarcasm in this case if so good man. Some things that people do just don't make sense to me. Thus a Can of Whoop Ass extraordinary ability seems to fit into their little worlds.

What would you make it? Supernatural?

G3N3R3L GHOST
2010-07-21, 11:28 AM
What would you make it? Supernatural?

Nah, how you wrote it up was perfect. It will go quite well with that +28 Racial Bonus to Cha guy too. Get them in a party together, and holy crap. Why even play the game when you know what the outcome will be everytime the DM says roll initiative.

Caphi
2010-07-21, 11:29 AM
Nah, how you wrote it up was perfect. It will go quite well with that +28 Racial Bonus to Cha guy too. Get them in a party together, and holy crap. Why even play the game when you know what the outcome will be everytime the DM says roll initiative.

I uh... I think you're being a little too acidic about this joke... 0_o

Telonius
2010-07-21, 11:30 AM
Nah, I'd say that the Can is a wondrous item. What you're looking for is:

All out of Bubble Gum (Ex): Once per encounter, one of your two reasons for being here is removed, leaving only "Kicking Ass."

Rixx
2010-07-21, 12:31 PM
Well if that's easy it is to be a homebrewer I am going to make a race that can kill anything in one hit from the Elemental Plane of Whoop Ass.

Other than that Lesser Aasimar is good, what I always use for the dread necromancer along with magic items to give it a little bit more of a boost.

The LA on that has to be dreadful.

The Charismator has -3 LA and -2 racial hit dice. You can start with 5 class levels at APL 1.

Vulaas
2010-07-21, 07:51 PM
The LA on that has to be dreadful.

The Charismator has -3 LA and -2 racial hit dice. You can start with 5 class levels at APL 1.

You had best be joking. Negative LA is bad enough, but negative RHD doesn't even make sense. I would almost pay to see the rest of your homebrew justto see if it all is that horrifically bad.

Another_Poet
2010-07-21, 09:36 PM
You could also start middle aged or older to gain Cha boosts.

ap

Jack_Simth
2010-07-21, 09:46 PM
Lesser Aasimar is +2 wis +2 cha, and great for Dread Necromancers who want some Arcane Disciple fun.

Also, it's a template, but Half-fey is a lot of fun for charisma based characters.

Edit: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds.
... if a Half-Fey Kobold takes the Dragonwrought feat, what type does the kobold have? Dragon or Fey?

Lhurgyof
2010-07-21, 09:47 PM
Question 1: Why the hell would an Aasimar be a DREAD NECROMANCER?

Question 2: What the hell does Dragonwrought do? I've heard the cheese, but have yet to see what it does.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-21, 09:51 PM
Question 1: Why the hell would an Aasimar be a DREAD NECROMANCER?
Because they're not always their normal alignment? Plus it's funny.


Question 2: What the hell does Dragonwrought do? I've heard the cheese, but have yet to see what it does.
Gives a kobold the dragon type, plus a few other side benefits. One of the side benefits being a different aging scheme... which means if you age up to Venerable, you don't lose out on your physical ability scores, but still get the aging bonuses (At Venerable, +3 Int, Wis, and Cha).

Lhurgyof
2010-07-21, 10:06 PM
Because they're not always their normal alignment? Plus it's funny.
Ah, I assume. Sounds kinda cheesy to me. xD


Gives a kobold the dragon type, plus a few other side benefits. One of the side benefits being a different aging scheme... which means if you age up to Venerable, you don't lose out on your physical ability scores, but still get the aging bonuses (At Venerable, +3 Int, Wis, and Cha).

Ouch. That is insane to no end. xD

faceroll
2010-07-22, 12:18 AM
My standard +1 LA charisma build is an Old Draconic Magic Blooded Lesser Aasimar. -1 str, -3 dex, -1 con, +2 int, +2 wis, +8 cha.

You could also go Incarnate Construct on a magic-blooded warforged for -2 LA, then slap on gravetouched ghoul to bring you up to +0 LA. Then apply the evolved template at level 3 and buy it off for 3,000 xp as many times as you please, each time giving you +2 charisma.

Primordial giant is a LA0 template that gives a giant +4 int and +4 charisma. It's inherited, so I wouldn't allow it on an incarnate construct as a DM.

Another way is to use the "design your own half-fiend template" and base it off the succubus, with +8 to charisma and +8 to some other stats. That can also be found on the WotC website. +4 LA is stupid bad compared to going with the lesser aasimar above, though.


... if a Half-Fey Kobold takes the Dragonwrought feat, what type does the kobold have? Dragon or Fey?

Dragon; half-fey is inherited. There's some stuff on the WotC website about picking up templates with rituals, though.
Arguably, this is why you can't have a dragonspawn dragonwrought kobold without some interesting shenanigans, since dragonspawn is acquired and you have to pick up dragonwrought with your first HD.

Draz74
2010-07-22, 01:49 AM
The Charismator has -3 LA and -2 racial hit dice. You can start with 5 class levels at APL 1.

Ah dang, but Charismator RHD are awesome! So now I have to start out the game with -2d20 hit points, -2 BAB, -2 levels of Wizard casting ... :smallfrown:

HunterOfJello
2010-07-22, 02:03 AM
Magic-Blooded Template is a LA +0 with -2 Wis, +2 Cha






Magic-Blooded, Half-Fey, Primordial Giant, Incarnate Construct, Warforged has +8 Cha, Wings and can turn invisibile at-will with +0 LA. (However, your DM will probably throw several books at you and burn your character sheet.)

Talbot
2010-07-22, 02:22 AM
Hellbred nets you +2 Cha -2 Con for no LA and comes with a few other nifty benefits.

sonofzeal
2010-07-22, 04:34 AM
Magic-Blooded, Half-Fey, Primordial Giant, Incarnate Construct, Warforged has +8 Cha, Wings and can turn invisibile at-will with +0 LA. (However, your DM will probably throw several books at you and burn your character sheet.)
Incarnate Construct Warforged is a silly trick at the best of times, and imo should never be used for anything other than humourous effect or theoretical optimization... and even for the theoretical stuff I'd consider it highly dubious. Your build seems to depend on applying the LA in one order, but the benefits in a different order. Since negative LA is meaningless, a base Incarnate Warforged would have to be bumped up to LA +0, and then templates would go on top of that (ie Incarnate Warforged breeding around). Alternatively, a Magic-Blooded Half-Fey Primordial Warforged who took Incarnate Construct (ie a really messed up Warforged with a spell cast on it) would lose all special attacks and special qualities from those templates, and probably not be legal in the first place since a Half-Fey Warforged is a bit hard to comprehend and would be "Fey" type anyway, nullifying the Incarnate process.

So... uh, moral of the story is "don't use Incarnate Warforged". Except as a joke.

Goonthegoof
2010-07-22, 09:31 AM
Question 1: Why the hell would an Aasimar be a DREAD NECROMANCER?

Because they synergise rather well =P
I have a lesser Aasimar dread necromancer in my campaign at the moment. She's a bit weird (her first major action in the campaign was to have sex with a kobold) but it works.

Greenish
2010-07-22, 11:12 AM
Question 1: Why the hell would an Aasimar be a DREAD NECROMANCER?For the same reasons that any other race would.

Question 2: What the hell does Dragonwrought do? I've heard the cheese, but have yet to see what it does.I did describe it at the first page.

Anyway, just the aging isn't very cheesy. Like someone put it, think of it like a anti-human: you get decent stats, but lose a feat.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 11:48 AM
Question 1: Why the hell would an Aasimar be a DREAD NECROMANCER?

There can be both evil aasimar and good tieflings. It isn't common, but can happen.


Alignment: Aasimars are usually good, as befits their celestial heritage. However, the extraordinarily rare evil aasimar often makes the vilest villain.

This could be especially true of Aasimar who are Well-Intentioned Extremists or similar.

faceroll
2010-07-22, 12:49 PM
Incarnate Construct Warforged is a silly trick at the best of times, and imo should never be used for anything other than humourous effect or theoretical optimization... and even for the theoretical stuff I'd consider it highly dubious. Your build seems to depend on applying the LA in one order, but the benefits in a different order. Since negative LA is meaningless, a base Incarnate Warforged would have to be bumped up to LA +0, and then templates would go on top of that (ie Incarnate Warforged breeding around). Alternatively, a Magic-Blooded Half-Fey Primordial Warforged who took Incarnate Construct (ie a really messed up Warforged with a spell cast on it) would lose all special attacks and special qualities from those templates, and probably not be legal in the first place since a Half-Fey Warforged is a bit hard to comprehend and would be "Fey" type anyway, nullifying the Incarnate process.

So... uh, moral of the story is "don't use Incarnate Warforged". Except as a joke.

You can't get primordial on a warforged, because it's an inherited giant only template, and a warforged is a construct. Incarnate construct is acquired, and you can't inherit templates after creature creation because that's not of it works.

Incarnate construct works when using "any living creature" templates, like half fiend or half celestial.

Rixx
2010-07-22, 12:52 PM
Ah dang, but Charismator RHD are awesome! So now I have to start out the game with -2d20 hit points, -2 BAB, -2 levels of Wizard casting ... :smallfrown:

...Well played, sir.

sonofzeal
2010-07-22, 12:54 PM
You can't get primordial on a warforged, because it's an inherited giant only template, and a warforged is a construct. Incarnate construct is acquired, and you can't inherit templates after creature creation because that's not of it works.

Incarnate construct works when using "any living creature" templates, like half fiend or half celestial.
Indeed. You need to have a template on the base warforged, and then Incarnate it to lower the LA, but then you really do lose stuff. It's not unreasonable to have a colony of interfertile Incarnate Warforged, but you're right that it's not RAW, and they wouldn't be born with negative LA, they'd be LA+0 as a community and any templates would go on normally.

Nam Animus
2010-07-22, 03:30 PM
I saw "Hellbred" on here. Is that a template or a race?

Star Elf or Spellscale +2 Cha, -2 Con
Magic-blooded (Spark) +2 Cha, -2 Wis
Hellbred? (+2 Cha, -2 Wis)

that's a ridiculous amount of charisma, even without hellbred.

- Animus

EDIT: Oh, and if you pull that Dragon-Kobold cheese, you could take Great Charisma [Epic] which would boost your Charisma by 1. 2 flaws = 1 more ChaMod.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 03:35 PM
I saw "Hellbred" on here. Is that a template or a race?

It's a race, from Fiendish Codex 2. They look pretty sinister but are usually Good.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/FC2_Gallery/101472.jpg

There are two types: Body Aspect (+2 Con, -2 Int) and Spirit Aspect (-2 Con, +2 Cha.)

hamishspence
2010-07-22, 03:35 PM
Hellbred is a race- in Fiendish Codex 2- they could have been almost anything before, but now they are reincarnated as hellbred.

EDIT: Swordsaged :smallamused:

senrath
2010-07-22, 03:37 PM
It's a race, from Fiendish Codex 2. They look pretty sinister but are usually Good.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/FC2_Gallery/101472.jpg

There are two types: Body Aspect (+2 Con, -2 Int) and Spirit Aspect (-2 Con, +2 Cha.)

And the reason they're usually Good? Because really bad stuff will happen to them if they don't achieve salvation, since they've already escaped the Hells once...

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 03:37 PM
EDIT: Swordsaged :smallamused:

*Nods silently, fades into shadows*


And the reason they're usually Good? Because really bad stuff will happen to them if they don't achieve salvation, since they've already escaped the Hells once...

Well technically, they got that way by genuinely repenting, so it's not totally selfish.

senrath
2010-07-22, 03:41 PM
Well, no, but it is a reason why you'll almost never run into one who has strayed from "the path of good" or whatever you want to call it, and become evil again.

hamishspence
2010-07-22, 03:58 PM
The sample Hellfire Warlock in the same book, is a hellbred who has turned to evil again.

senrath
2010-07-22, 04:02 PM
I said almost never. It's like those "always x" races, which can have non-x members from time to time.

hamishspence
2010-07-22, 04:06 PM
True. Evil hellbred are probably very much the exception, not the rule.

Apparently NG or CG hellbred are pretty rare next to LG ones.

Greenish
2010-07-22, 04:10 PM
EDIT: Oh, and if you pull that Dragon-Kobold cheese, you could take Great Charisma [Epic] which would boost your Charisma by 1. 2 flaws = 1 more ChaMod.It'd also be a waste of feats, but meh.

Apparently NG or CG hellbred are pretty rare next to LG ones.A race of paladins, eww.

senrath
2010-07-22, 04:14 PM
That's...pretty much how their fluff describes, them, actually. And it is their favored class.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 04:25 PM
True. Evil hellbred are probably very much the exception, not the rule.

Apparently NG or CG hellbred are pretty rare next to LG ones.

They have to start at LE in order to become Hellbred. Realizing that evil doesn't pay isn't enough by itself to change their Law/Chaos outlook, I would wager.

hamishspence
2010-07-22, 04:49 PM
They have to start as Lawful, anyway. I got the impression that a corruption of 9 would send even an LN or LG character to Baator unless they are repentant. And that a character can change alignment even after reaching Corruption 9.

If they are repentant- but haven't removed any of the Corruption by the time they die, I'd say they qualify for Hellbred.

So, some hellbred will have been LE in life, but others could have been LN or LG, repentant, but not yet made noncorrupt.

Maybe this is what happens when you use the Diplomacy rules in BoED on a Corruption 9 creature- you change their alignment, but don't remove their Corruption?