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Jackolas
2010-07-21, 04:25 AM
Hi guys,
this might sound like a random question however I would like to know the answe please. Could I take 1 level of sorceror/wizard/ranger during all my rogue levels to allow me to gain acess to using arcane wands without a use magic device check?

Also can you dual wield wands and use two in the same turn? My thinking here is sneak attacking with wands of magic missile! Only a few d4 but they never miss :D

will this work?

FelixG
2010-07-21, 04:29 AM
im not sure about the first part but i know there is a feat for dual wand wielding in eberron

Ducklord
2010-07-21, 04:42 AM
You can't sneak attack with magic missile. The only spells that let yousneak attack are the ones that use a attack roll(rays, orbs, touch spells, etc). You can however take a level of a spellcasting class to gain access to all the wands that class can normally use.

Jackolas
2010-07-21, 04:55 AM
damn! I knew it was too good to be true!

BooNL
2010-07-21, 07:01 AM
Actually, most spells are ranged touch attacks, so hitting with them (with a rogue's BAB) isn't that difficult.

Low level wands of 1st and 2nd level ranged touch attacks are quite useful to a rogue. You don't even need a level in a spellcasting class to make sure you can use these wands, but it helps.

Prime32
2010-07-21, 07:11 AM
You can however take a level of a spellcasting class to gain access to all the wands that class can normally use.I recommend cleric with the Magic domain to get access to both the cleric and wizard lists.

Frog Dragon
2010-07-21, 07:32 AM
I recommend cleric with the Magic domain to get access to both the cleric and wizard lists.
Cloistered is even better for this.

Optimystik
2010-07-21, 08:11 AM
Hi guys,
this might sound like a random question however I would like to know the answe please. Could I take 1 level of sorceror/wizard/ranger during all my rogue levels to allow me to gain acess to using arcane wands without a use magic device check?

You can. However, your caster level will stay at 1 (5 if you grab Practiced Spellcaster) which can affect your chances of activating the item reliably. Because you aren't using UMD, you also can't fake a needed alignment or ability score.

If you want to use UMD in combat reliably, 4 levels of Warlock will let you take 10 on UMD checks.

Yora
2010-07-21, 08:18 AM
That applies only to scrolls. To activate a wand safely, you only need to have that spell on your classes spell list. So 1 level is all that's needed.

A wand of Scorching Ray should do the job nicely.

Shpadoinkle
2010-07-21, 09:12 AM
You can. However, your caster level will stay at 1 (5 if you grab Practiced Spellcaster) which can affect your chances of activating the item reliably. Because you aren't using UMD, you also can't fake a needed alignment or ability score.

If you want to use UMD in combat reliably, 4 levels of Warlock will let you take 10 on UMD checks.

Actually, if he's just looking to be able to make sneak attacks at range, a single level of warlock accomplishes this pretty well. A warlock's Eldtrich Blast is a 1d6 damage ranged touch attack that can be used as a standard action, at will, with a default range of 60'.

For one level of Warlock you also get a least invocation. Leaps and Bounds and Spider Walk are really good options for a rogue.

Person_Man
2010-07-21, 10:43 AM
1 level of Archivist will give you access to every divine spell, which includes Cleric, Druid, Blackguard, Paladin, Ranger, every domain (which includes many arcane spells), and every divine prestige class.

But keep in mind that at levels 1-4ish you won't have the money for wands, and that by levels 10+ish you can automatically make the DC 20 check needed to use any wand. And there are several feats which replace UMD to a limited degree. So dipping into a class to get access to spell trigger items is only a useful strategy around ECL 5-10ish, and even then you're probably better off just going with strait Archivist 5-10 or whatnot.

nedz
2010-07-21, 11:05 AM
An interesting, and cheap, option is the cantrip Acid Splash.
A 1st level sorceror can cast this 4 times a day and a level 0 wand is very very cheap.
What do you get:
Close range; but you only get sneak out to 30' anyway.
1d3 damage; but you're after a vehicle for your sneak damage.
Ranged Touch - so easy to hit.
Ignores SR !!!!!

Warlock 1 will get you a d6 Eldritch blast, and a further invokation, but you will be stopped by almost any kind of SR. You need something like Warlock 11 to get through SR with the Greater Essence Vitreolic Blast. This is possibly a better option at low-level, but not as you progress.

Keld Denar
2010-07-21, 11:34 AM
A wand of Scorching Ray should do the job nicely.

For wanding, Seeking Ray in the PHBII is better than Scorching Ray. Its forever capped at 4d6 electricity damage by default, which would suck if you were hard casting it, but for a wand at min CL, its perfect. It also ignores anything less than full concealment and can be fired into a grapple unerringly. PLUS, if you hit with it, you establish a link for 3 rounds (since its only CL3) that gives you a +3 to hit with ranged attacks. Further hits refresh this duration.

If you are gonna blast with a 2nd level wand, this is argueably the best wand to do it with.

Duel Wand Wielder requires Craft Wand, which requires CL5, IIRC, so you'd have to stack a Practiced Spellcaster on top of your wizard or cleric dip. Alternatively, go with some kind of arcane rogue build, like Rogue1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5, or the same thing with Spellthief instead of Rogue. At the cost of a small amount of base SA, you get nearly full Wizard casting with USS's ability to pull spells off other lists. This nets you Hunter's Eye as a spell off the Ranger list, allowing you to actually gain more SA than a straight rogue a few times per day (or all day if you persist it).

Darrin
2010-07-21, 07:38 PM
Hi guys,
this might sound like a random question however I would like to know the answe please. Could I take 1 level of sorceror/wizard/ranger during all my rogue levels to allow me to gain acess to using arcane wands without a use magic device check?


Planar Touchstone feat (Planar Handbook) linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment can give you the Magic domain power. This allows you to use all spell-completion and spell-trigger items as a 1st level wizard. And you don't have to give up any rogue levels.



Also can you dual wield wands and use two in the same turn? My thinking here is sneak attacking with wands of magic missile! Only a few d4 but they never miss :D


There's a feat in one of the Eberron books that lets you wield two wands at once, I think... can't recall the specifics. So yes, that does exist. However, as others have pointed out, you can't sneak attack with magic missile. You can, however, sneak attack with a wand of acid splash. Also, Gloves of the Uldra Savant (Magic Item Compendium) give you ray of frost at-will.

Here's another great wandable spell for sneak attack shenanigans: Kauper's Quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a).

Curmudgeon
2010-07-21, 08:25 PM
Planar Touchstone feat (Planar Handbook) linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment can give you the Magic domain power. This allows you to use all spell-completion and spell-trigger items as a 1st level wizard. And you don't have to give up any rogue levels.
Generally speaking, feats are about the most precious resource for a Rogue. When it's not going to cause problems (multiclassing XP penalty, for instance) it's "cheaper" to "pay" a class dip (1 per level, naturally) than a feat (7 per 20 levels).

A single level Cloistered Cleric dip can get you:

full use of wands with Cleric spells
use of divine scrolls (with some possible difficulty)
3 domains: the equivalent of a feat or more each, if chosen well
undead turn attempts, which can power domain feats like Travel Devotion
The cost is pretty reasonable:

½ sneak attack die penalty (-1.75 points damage, on average)
delay of Rogue special abilities (which end at Rogue 19, so a single level dip means no net loss)
-2 skill points
I encourage you to do the math.

Jackolas
2010-07-22, 05:37 AM
thanks guys!
Really appreciate the responses. Our dm is strictly core only so that rules out many of the suggestions.

Prime32
2010-07-22, 07:42 AM
You can always sneak attack with flasks of acid, alchemist's fire, etc. You can make a full attack with those.

Nihb
2010-07-22, 08:04 AM
Alchemical items are an idea, but you'll need Quick Draw. Two-weapon fighting will allow you to throw an additional flask with a penalty of -2 on each attack roll. No SR.

One of the wizards I played made a recurring item, useful to rogues : Handcrossbow of Acid Splash (1'800 gp -> ½[spell level 0] x 1[spellcaster level] x 1800 x 2[no slot]). This item is based on the Hand of the Mage, which allows the use of Mage Hand at-will, from the DMG. As it's homebrewed, you may need you DM's approval.