Weapons of Legacy, how to?

[Cedrass]

So I was reading this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160645), and Weapons of LEgacy often came up as the two choices people would put as their worst D&D books ever printed.

I love the idea of legacy weapons, but like some people said, the excution is poor. I am sadly not very aware of the mechanics behind them, having used only one such item (Desert Wind, the ToB sword for Desert Wind, duh).

Now I am wondering what people think would be needed to make them a good concept crunch-wise and fluff-wise?

[Boci]

Remove/severely nerf the personal costs, make researching the rituals less reliant on skill checks. Double check each ability to see if it is really that powerful.

[Ravens_cry]

Use the rules in the back to make your own Weapons of Legacy with more fair costs.

[Cedrass]

So basicaly, it's the personnal costs that are too heavy?

Also, is a "max level" weapon comparable to a magic weapon you'd build from scratch? Is it better?

[Optimystik]

1) Take all the sample weapons.
2) Apply liberal pulling force until those pages are removed from your book. Ensure Legacy Champion is not left behind.
3) See ravens_cry's post. 4) ??? 5) Profit

[Ravens_cry]

1) Take all the sample weapons.
2) Apply liberal pulling force until those pages are removed from your book. Ensure Legacy Champion is not left behind.
3) See ravens_cry's post. 4) ??? 5) Profit
I would keep them is inspiration for your own weapons, I liked the idea of Ur, for example.

[Gametime]

Removing all the skill requirements and personal detriments from the premade weapons should make them serviceable enough, if you also rule that you can upgrade them like normal magical items. You'll still have to go on a sidequest a few times, but those can be integrated into most campaigns and add a lot to the flavor of the items.

Really, if you're running a campaign with Weapons of Legacy, everyone should be getting one, and if everyone gets one, you don't need to worry as much about them being overpowering. Removing the horrible downsides from the weapons should make them actually fun.

[Tyndmyr]

1) Take all the sample weapons.
2) Apply liberal pulling force until those pages are removed from your book. Ensure Legacy Champion is not left behind.
3) See ravens_cry's post. 4) ??? 5) Profit

Also, fire. You forgot the fire.

[JonestheSpy]

I think the skill requirements are not too bad, but the rest of the penalties are dumb.

[Person_Man]

While the book itself is horrible, as Ravens suggests you can use the rules in the back of the book to make something worthwhile. You don't even need to modify the costs suggested costs. You just need to ignore the suggestions about what is appropriate. As the book itself says, an attack penalty doesn't have much impact on a Wizard, whereas a Skill penalty doesn't have much impact on a Fighter. I would add that a Will Save penalty has little effect on someone with immunity to mind-affecting effects, Fort Save penalties have little impact on Undead and Constructs, and that hit point penalties can be countered with Improved Toughness or a bump to Constitution.

Even if you do use "appropriate" costs, there is another overlooked trick. You can give a Legacy Item intelligence as one of it's legacy abilities. Intelligent items can activate their own powers without waiting for a command word from their owner. Load up your custom Legacy Item with at-will abilities such as Unseen Servant (to carry itself!), Unseen Servant, Detect Secret Doors, Haste, Enlarge Person, etc, and it becomes a personal scout and buffer.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Are the sample weapons really that bad? They look so cool!

[Cedrass]

Are the sample weapons really that bad? They look so cool!

It's what I thought too! But I've to admit... The Attack penalty and hit point loss started to hit on my Swordsage when he had Desert Wind...

[Glimbur]

Load up your custom Legacy Item with at-will abilities such as Unseen Servant (to carry itself!), Unseen Servant, Detect Secret Doors, Haste, Enlarge Person, etc, and it becomes a personal scout and buffer.

Dimension Door is particularly sweet because normally it keeps the user from acting until his/her next turn. If it's your item who can't act that is usually less of an issue.

[Boci]

Are there any homebred legacy weapons on the forumes? Maybe they did a bit better. I remember a suit of armour or a shield with some dragon and an emporer mentioned in the lore, but I cannot find it.

[aivanther]

Are the sample weapons really that bad? They look so cool!

Yes, because while you could get something better or at least equivalent with simply selling your current weapon and buying a better one, a legacy weapon requires you to devote yourself to a skill check, a side quest, and then TAKING A PERMANENT PENALTY.