Optimize me a quarterstaff! [D&D 3.5e/4e]

[Guancyto]

So, one of my favorite images from both kung fu and medieval movies was the fighter who beat things up with a staff, from Chow Yun-Fat to Little John. My first D&D character was a staff fighter, long before I found out that Greater Weapon Specialization (Quarterstaff) was a feat to avoid. Especially at level 15.

So it's kind of unfortunate that basically no-one uses it in D&D aside from maybe the Wizard who brought it so he'd have something to make attacks of opportunity with.

What can be done about this? This isn't for a specific game, so feel free to pile on the TO. Whatever level is fine, though the ideal points I'm looking for would be around levels 1, 2, 5 and 10 (3.5). I'd just like to see what's possible.

Oh, and it doesn't strictly have to be a quarterstaff; longstaff and the like are good too, just as long as it's the same class.

[Eldariel]

Take a Druid. Pick up some (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#wildShapeVariantAspectOfN ature) variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger). Cast:
- Shillelagh
- Entangling Staff [SpC]
- Spikes [SpC]

Also, make use of Spellstaff & al. Then use normal Druidic buffs, pick up Power Attack and mayhap TWF-line at some point, and heck, might as well consider Expertise > Improved Disarm+Trip since it works decently for both (well, unarmed Trip and hit, but you get my point).

But yeah, TWF can be advantageous when making the most out of Spikes while THF can also have its uses, when dealing with Low AC Power Attackables. Overall, you'll get a great staff fighter and you won't suck overall. Quick Staff [CWar] kinda sucks but is meh thematic, and if you happen to end up with the prerequisites somehow, Sudden Willow Strike [PGtE] is decent with your Wisdom-focus.

[Prodan]

Monk2/Psychic Warrior X. Enlarge self, go to town.

[Grynning]

4th edition has a staff feat; it's not amazing, but it works. A Tempest fighter or a Ranger with a quarterstaff can do decently enough, though a lot of the weapon specific powers and feats are not going to work for the build. Example lvl 6 fighter build:


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Human, Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: Tempest Technique

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10.


AC: 22 Fort: 21 Reflex: 17 Will: 18
HP: 58 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +8, Heal +11, Endurance +8, Athletics +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +2, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +6, History +2, Insight +8, Intimidate +3, Nature +6, Perception +8, Religion +2, Stealth +3, Thievery +3

FEATS
Human: Staff Fighting
Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Staff)
Level 2: Starlight Duelist Style
Level 4: Mobile Challenge
Level 6: Wary Fighter

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Dual Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Threatening Rush
Fighter at-will 1: Footwork Lure
Fighter encounter 1: Funneling Flurry
Fighter daily 1: Bristling Defense
Fighter utility 2: Pass Forward
Fighter encounter 3: Sweeping Slash
Fighter daily 5: Dancing Defense
Fighter utility 6: Unbalancing Dodge

ITEMS
Quarterstaff, Chainmail
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[Mando Knight]

4th edition has a staff feat; it's not amazing, but it works.

It isn't amazing, but it is strong. Defensive, with one hand Stout and the other Off-Hand, and 1d8/+2 attack is a pretty solid weapon. Add on the Staff enchantments (especially Staff of Ruin), and it gets pretty good.

Monks are also usually good with the staff, though their enhanced unarmed attacks generally make them pass up the stick.

[Fizban]

Baiscally, take all the staff feats you can find and TWF with it. Even though the offhand attacks are wielded "as though it were a light weapon", the main hand attacks aren't affected by that line, which means they still get the x2 power attack bonus for being in two hands. You aren't losing any power on your main attacks so you can do whatever you want with the rest: pick a strategy that works with a staff and go to town knowing you can still ubercharge if you need to. The only really bad thing is that the staff feats are pretty much always just passive AC bonuses.

[Gnaritas]

A wizard has "Greater Mighty Whallop" and... uhm...something else but i cannot find it.

It also has Greater Mighty Weapon, Entangling Staff,....

Combine this with Abjurant Champion, (extended) Wraith Strikes and Power Attacks and you can deal a whole bunch of damage.

Level 10:
Fighter 2/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Abjurant Champion 3

Practised Spellcaster and Power attack as feats.

I would use a Warmace (Rods are usually maces, and large rods look like a quarterstaff, not?).

Damage with a Greater Mighty Whalloped Greater Magic Weaponed Power Attacked Wraith Striked hit: (assuming a 18 str and a non-magical Warmace)
+5 touch attack (3d6+25)

Obviously there are tons of ways to further optimize this.

[Bladesinger]

One thing that may not be the "best" option but could be something fun to consider is the Vow of Poverty from the Book of Exalted Deeds. I once made a Fighter who was a farmer and used a quarterstaff, and by level 5, I had higher AC than the Full-Plate Fighter in the party, and I beat a 7th-level Paladin one on one. Like people have suggested, take the appropriate TWF feats, and these, in combination with the AC bonus and Exalted Strike ability the Vow provides, may give you just what you need to make people notice the stick you're twirling. It may not be as flashy as a magical weapon option, but it may fit your roleplaying style better.

[Ingus]

Use it two handed, max UMD (ranks and feats), add Magic Weapon, Superior, Spikes and Greater Mighty Wallop. Enjoy

[nedz]

Monk 2/Druid 18
or
Monk 2/Spirit Shamen 18

You can flurry with a quarter-staff since its a Monk weapon and then buff it with the Shillelagh/Brambles/Spikes/Entangling Staff chain.
This gives you the martial arts feel you want.

Whilst the Druid option is more powerful the Spirit Shamen is an interesting flavour.
Flurry is identical to TWF given the weapon constraint, though it doesn't lead into ITWF.
Ranger 2 is an alternative to the Monk since that does give you TWF.

[Fizban]

Ooh, yeah. Speaking of monk, you could dip a level of monk for Decisive Strike from PHBII. It replaces Flurry of Blows, only works with monk weapons, and only gives you one attack, but it doubles your damage for the entire round (and improves with levels if for some reason you actually stay a monk). The only two handed weapon you can normally use it with is quarterstaff, but that lets you get a 4/1 damage ratio without even charging or using leap attack, and it covers all your attacks of opportunity as well. Since it only costs you one level (compared to the fighter's version at freaking 16th, with no improvements), there's really no reason not to take it. You'll even get to dip the monk's all-good saves and abuse the multiclassing mechanics there.

So: one level of monk for Decisive Strike and Power Attack is pretty much all you need for the quarterstaff specialization. Once you can reliably hit with two main handed attacks you can pick up TWF for an extra splick of damage or disarming, but the offhand attacks won't have PA damage so they shouldn't take priority over Decisive Strikes. You'll probably want to be more of and AoO monster if possible, to take advantage of getting double damage for the whole round. And of course you'll need extra move actions instead of pounce to move and attack.

You'll still deal less damage than a fully optimized ubercharger of course, since they abuse multiple multiples with extra multiplicity, but I think Decisive Strike could take center in a build easily.

[Optimystik]

Monk2/Psychic Warrior X. Enlarge self, go to town.

Seconding this, especially if you grab a Soulbound Quarterstaff. Be a half-giant for a truly massive.... stick.

[Person_Man]

3.5 options:

Spell Storing weapon enhancement: Delivers any 3rd level or lower spell on a successful attack. Quarterstaff is a double weapon, so enchant each side. DMG.
Eilservs School feat: When you strike a creature with a magic staff, it deals +1 damage for every 10 charges it contains. And if you strike a creature with both ends, you can activate one of the spells in the staff (on your target or on you) as a Swift action. Drow of the Underdark.
Arcane Strike feat: As a free action burn a spell for an untyped bonus to hit equal to the spell level sacrificed and 1d4 * spell level bonus damage, for 1 round. Complete Warrior.


Google up your favorite Abjurant Champion build, use the above with TWF and pounce or free movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358), and you should have no trouble delivering 3 spells on the first round of combat and one spell each round thereafter, all without giving up a full attack, and with potentially huge bonuses to-hit and damage.

[Human Paragon 3]

Ooh, yeah. Speaking of monk, you could dip a level of monk for Decisive Strike from PHBII. It replaces Flurry of Blows...


I did this once, and it worked very well! I did a Monk/Factotum (with kung fu genius) and then PrCd into tattooed monk. Anyway, Factotum has great synergy with decisive strike too, because you can get a 2-1 investment on your inspiration points by adding your Int to damage then doubling it with decisive strike.

Another build I had was a TWF sneak attacking warrior who used power attack on a charge or if he had to move and attack, and used TWF with sneak attack when he could full attack. This was also a very fun build. I used vexing flanker and adaptable flanker from PHBII to reliably get sneak attack.

[9mm]

3.5 options:

Spell Storing weapon enhancement: Delivers any 3rd level or lower spell on a successful attack. Quarterstaff is a double weapon, so enchant each side. DMG.
Eilservs School feat: When you strike a creature with a magic staff, it deals +1 damage for every 10 charges it contains. And if you strike a creature with both ends, you can activate one of the spells in the staff (on your target or on you) as a Swift action. Drow of the Underdark.
Arcane Strike feat: As a free action burn a spell for an untyped bonus to hit equal to the spell level sacrificed and 1d4 * spell level bonus damage, for 1 round. Complete Warrior.


Google up your favorite Abjurant Champion build, use the above with TWF and pounce or free movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358), and you should have no trouble delivering 3 spells on the first round of combat and one spell each round thereafter, all without giving up a full attack, and with potentially huge bonuses to-hit and damage.

in adtition to this advice: spellstaff turn your weapon into an extra spell slot! also if you have feats to burn consider making the weapon heavy which, if you don't go super gish, opens up exotic weapon master happy fun times. avoid the longstaff though, unless you constantly need to fight defensively.

Personaly I'd go melee druid/spirit shaman to get the most out of the quraterstaff buffs.

[Greenish]

Swordsage can make use of a staff, using TWF and boosts or THW and strikes.

[true_shinken]

Be a half-giant for a truly massive.... stick.
I see what you did there.

[Tohron]

Obtain a way to fly, bring along some wood as raw materials, then fly over your opponent and craft 1000+ quarterstaves and drop them on your foe.

Since the quarterstaff costs 0 gp, it requires no time to craft and consumes no materials. :biggrin:

[Gnaritas]

Obtain a way to fly, bring along some wood as raw materials, then fly over your opponent and craft 1000+ quarterstaves and drop them on your foe.

Since the quarterstaff costs 0 gp, it requires no time to craft and consumes no materials. :biggrin:

The craft skill does not work this way:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Craft_Skill

Maybe you were thinking of the craft magic item ability. Which does not apply to a mundane quarterstaff. But even that has a minimum of one day.

[Draz74]

Swordsage can make use of a staff, using TWF and boosts or THW and strikes.

Warblade, too. In general, the Quarterstaff is pretty cool if you use it as a double weapon when you get a full attack, or as a two-handed Power Attacking weapon when you only get a single attack. (And you have Strikes to make the single attack meaningful, and Boosts or Stances that add damage to make the TWF style meaningful.)


The craft skill does not work this way:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Craft_Skill


It's not entirely clear what, in that link, you think contradicts the magic staff-crafting cheese. Is it the rule that you make a craft check only 1/day?
Even when you're right, linking to dandwiki never improves your credibility. Ever. No, not even then. :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

Even when you're right, linking to dandwiki never improves your credibility. Ever. No, not even then. :smalltongue:

I'm off to edit "This site is 100% credible!" onto their homepage and link to it. That'll teach you!

[Gnaritas]

Fine fine, i took the first result from google. But it's the same text as the normal srd.

[Andion Isurand]

You could go for the exotic longstaff in Complete Adventuerer...

...and thus make it so you cannot be flanked whenever you fight defensively, use a total defense, or apply at least 2 BAB to AC via Combat Expertise..