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Cicciograna
2010-07-22, 12:24 PM
Can a Psion who takes VoP obtain a psicrystal? Does it have to be considered one of his possessions or it is a completely independent creature?

Greymane
2010-07-22, 12:26 PM
Would you count your own mind/personality as a possession?

tyckspoon
2010-07-22, 12:27 PM
It's a creature and a psuedo-class feature, neither of which are barred under Vow of Poverty; you can keep Animal Companions and Familiars (although you may be boned by the 100 gp price tag of calling a new one if the Familiar dies or is released), I don't see why a Psicrystal would be any different.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 12:27 PM
1) It's a creature. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)

2) Feats aren't possessions, so go nuts.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-22, 12:27 PM
It's when the psicrystal takes VoP too that you start having a problem...

elonin
2010-07-22, 12:28 PM
Tricky call. Is there a cash value given to those crystals? From a balance perspective it seems that a wizards familiar wouldn't be treated as property so that seems like an argument for not violating the VOP.

elonin
2010-07-22, 12:29 PM
It's when the psicrystal takes VoP too that you start having a problem...


How does the psicrystal get feats? Also the class feature argument is a bit weak, how about the kensai?

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 12:30 PM
How does the psicrystal get feats?

The same way as any other creature - by advancing HD.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-22, 12:34 PM
1) It's a creature. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)

...what if you believe in owning creatures as property (cf: slavery)?

I mean, aside from that intrinsically breaking Exalted status.

Ranos
2010-07-22, 12:35 PM
He has a point though - The psycristal is a creature and an object at the same time, like an animated object or an intelligent weapon. It has hardness.

Note that this is just as silly as denying a wizard's spellbook, and I would never ever do it as a GM, but hey.

Lhurgyof
2010-07-22, 12:47 PM
Have your psicrystal made of... a rock. There we go, worth nothing.

A psicrystal is an extension of your personality, albeit an exaggeration. Considering you're an aesthetic, the psicrystal would more than likely be made of some worthless, scratched up, misshapen rock.

Ranos
2010-07-22, 12:50 PM
Have your psicrystal made of... a rock. There we go, worth nothing.

A psicrystal is an extension of your personality, albeit an exaggeration. Considering you're an aesthetic, the psicrystal would more than likely be made of some worthless, scratched up, misshapen rock.

Rocks are actually not on the exception list. So possessing a rock is enough to break the vow. Yeah.

My advice about the psicrystal thing is : Ask your GM. VoP does not work without working it out with the GM beforehand. At all. It is a very silly feat by RAW, so just ask.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 12:52 PM
...what if you believe in owning creatures as property (cf: slavery)?

I mean, aside from that intrinsically breaking Exalted status.

It's actually you - a fragment of your own mind, which is why you can extend personal-range spells to it. Can you enslave yourself?


Rocks are actually not on the exception list. So possessing a rock is enough to break the vow. Yeah.

Make it out of a sling bullet then.

Cicciograna
2010-07-22, 01:22 PM
This question wasn't for an actual game, but just for curiosity. Were I the Dm confronted with such a question I'd let it pass: my interpretation is that a psicrystal is more than a simple object, as many of you already recognized, and it is more than another creature. Being an extension of the very owner, it has to be considered as intrinsically part of him, so it would be okay for VoP.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-22, 01:24 PM
How does the psicrystal get feats? Also the class feature argument is a bit weak, how about the kensai?

It's based on the differing wording of the psicrystal compared to familiars - the language is actually closer to that of an animal companion, despite psicrystals behaving like familiars most of the time. They actually get full HD, instead of virtual ones, so they can choose feats appropriately. The usual use of this is Hidden/Wild Talent, then a pile of Metapsionic feats which the master borrows via Feat Leech.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-22, 01:25 PM
It has it's own stats and everything. An object doesn't.

However, I am no sorely tempted to make a VoP guy who hordes animals and creatures with special abilities. Be too funny.

elonin
2010-07-22, 01:42 PM
Does it say in the text somewhere that the psicrystal advances HD for feats, or is this gotten by some twisting of a vague rule?

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 01:44 PM
Does it say in the text somewhere that the psicrystal advances HD for feats, or is this gotten by some twisting of a vague rule?

Your hand is showing - the fact that you refer to it as "twisting" reveals that your mind is already made up on the subject.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-22, 01:44 PM
Can you enslave yourself?

Target: One humanoid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm). Target: One creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominateMonster.htm). Target: One living creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm). Target: One Medium or smaller creature with humanoid physiology (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm)

Yes. Yes you can.

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 01:50 PM
Target: One humanoid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm). Target: One creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominateMonster.htm). Target: One living creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm). Target: One Medium or smaller creature with humanoid physiology (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm)

Yes. Yes you can.

I meant in a moral sense :smalltongue:

You don't keep all those bookmarked, do you?

The Glyphstone
2010-07-22, 01:52 PM
Does it say in the text somewhere that the psicrystal advances HD for feats, or is this gotten by some twisting of a vague rule?

There have been several threads discussing the issue. Do a Search if you want to read the arguments, so we don't derail this thread.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-22, 01:52 PM
Does it say in the text somewhere that the psicrystal advances HD for feats, or is this gotten by some twisting of a vague rule?

All creatures with Intelligence scores obtain feats every three Hit Dice. A psicrystal has Int 6 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm). Therefore, psicrystals obtain feats every three Hit Dice.


You don't keep all those bookmarked, do you?

Actually, I do. (http://www.d20srd.org/browserGoodies/)

Ranos
2010-07-22, 01:54 PM
I meant in a moral sense :smalltongue:

You don't keep all those bookmarked, do you?

Maybe by cloning yourself somehow, then enslaving the clone ?

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 05:14 PM
Rocks are actually not on the exception list. So possessing a rock is enough to break the vow. Yeah.Actually, they are. You can own simple weapons, and rocks are ammo for slings (although not the preferred type). So you can own rocks. Technically.