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View Full Version : The Whip-Useless or What?(3.5)



Ilmryn
2010-07-22, 04:31 PM
The whip in DnD seems to me to be a pretty useless weapon, especially since it is exotic. Is there anything the whip is actually good for?(except maybe tripping enemies, but that is what the spiked chain is for)

Ormagoden
2010-07-22, 04:33 PM
The whip in DnD seems to me to be a pretty useless weapon, especially since it is exotic. Is there anything the whip is actually good for?(except maybe tripping enemies, but that is what the spiked chain is for)

delivering duskblade spells

Lyndworm
2010-07-22, 04:34 PM
There's a Skill Trick that lets you use it like a grappling hook, too. That's it. Whip's are pretty terrible.

Caphi
2010-07-22, 04:35 PM
It's good if you're a bard. You get the ability to trip at ten feet as a standard action at will for almost no cost.

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 04:43 PM
Whips are terrible weapons in real life, and very hard to learn how to use properly.

So I wouldn't really call foul in this case.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-22, 04:45 PM
I suppose they are bad weapon in RL and D&D because AFAIK the whip was designed to inflict painful non-lethal wounds.

Ernir
2010-07-22, 04:47 PM
They allow you to make awful puns about Erotic Weapon Proficiency.

nedz
2010-07-22, 04:47 PM
It's good if you're a bard. You get ability to trip at fifteen feet as a standard action at will for almost no cost.
Fixed that for you :smallsmile:

drengnikrafe
2010-07-22, 04:47 PM
I would say that a lot of weapons in D&D are either mostly useless or mechanically the same as another weapon. The whip, though... it's just another exotic weapon I wouldn't use. Most of them fall into that category for me.

Daremonai
2010-07-22, 04:47 PM
It's not an entirely useless weapon for disarming at a safe range. Still, sizeable penalties against two-handers.

Caphi
2010-07-22, 04:48 PM
Fixed that for you :smallsmile:

That makes it better. Plus the initial roll is a touch attack if you use it for a trip, and bards are sitting there with 3/4 BAB anyway.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-22, 05:00 PM
The whip in DnD seems to me to be a pretty useless weapon, especially since it is exotic. Is there anything the whip is actually good for?(except maybe tripping enemies, but that is what the spiked chain is for)

Tell that to this guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Whiplashfilm.jpg

dgnslyr
2010-07-22, 05:11 PM
Tell that to this guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Whiplashfilm.jpg

Now, imagine if he enchanted a greatsword that much.

nekomata2
2010-07-22, 05:15 PM
Now, imagine if he enchanted a greatsword that much.

Or, I don't know, built energy weapons that had a range of more than 15 feet. That'd probably be right about as good. I laughed in that movie because he's supposed to be a legit threat when his effective range is like 15 feet, while Iron Man could shoot him from what, several hundred meters easy?

Enguhl
2010-07-22, 05:47 PM
Or, I don't know, built energy weapons that had a range of more than 15 feet. That'd probably be right about as good. I laughed in that movie because he's supposed to be a legit threat when his effective range is like 15 feet, while Iron Man could shoot him from what, several hundred meters easy?

Not to mention that he's virtually unarmored. Did nobody think to shoot at him?

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 05:49 PM
Not to mention that he's virtually unarmored. Did nobody think to shoot at him?

Well, his ungodly charisma might have the power to deflect bullets. I mean, he is played by Mickey Rourke.

Enguhl
2010-07-22, 05:52 PM
Well, his ungodly charisma might have the power to deflect bullets. I mean, he is played by Mickey Rourke.

So aim for his feet?

On a related note, as said above it can be used for tripping and disarming and, with proper skill tricks (or 3.0 prestige) even grab onto things. So the whip is pretty useless as a *weapon*, but not as a tool.

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 05:53 PM
So aim for his feet?

I don't see how his feet do not benefit from the ungodly charisma.

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 06:08 PM
Or, I don't know, built energy weapons that had a range of more than 15 feet. That'd probably be right about as good. I laughed in that movie because he's supposed to be a legit threat when his effective range is like 15 feet, while Iron Man could shoot him from what, several hundred meters easy?

Maybe that's why he attacks Iron Man while he does not have his armor on and all?
Even then, his goal was not to kill Iron Man or anything - he just wanted to show the world that Iron Man was vulnerable.

LongVin
2010-07-22, 06:18 PM
Not to mention that he's virtually unarmored. Did nobody think to shoot at him?

Yeah, the entire scene at the race track I was going "Where are the cops? Don't they have guns...he's got nothing protecting him. Just shoot him."

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 06:22 PM
Yeah, the entire scene at the race track I was going "Where are the cops? Don't they have guns...he's got nothing protecting him. Just shoot him."

San Marino is not like the US where everyone carries a gun and comes packing all the time... :smallconfused:

Optimystik
2010-07-22, 06:26 PM
Well, his ungodly charisma might have the power to deflect bullets. I mean, he is played by Mickey Rourke.

He'd need to be incorporeal for that.

Rixx
2010-07-22, 06:33 PM
Keen shocking burst whip!

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 06:34 PM
He'd need to be incorporeal for that.

I see what you did there.

Then again, there are other ways to get your Charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#armorClass)

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 06:35 PM
Keen shocking burst whip of awesome!

Fixed that for you.

QuantumSteve
2010-07-22, 06:35 PM
From what I hear Holy, Undead Bane Whips are ideal for Vampire Hunters. For some reason.

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 06:39 PM
From what I hear Holy, Undead Bane Whips are ideal for Vampire Hunters. For some reason.

It's because of this.
http://pressthebuttons.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/31/simonbelmontb_2.png

aivanther
2010-07-22, 06:39 PM
San Marino is not like the US where everyone carries a gun and comes packing all the time... :smallconfused:

Neither is most the US...except, you know, the police officers, like he mentioned.

drengnikrafe
2010-07-22, 06:39 PM
From what I hear Holy, Undead Bane Whips are ideal for Vampire Hunters. For some reason.

Only if you name them. On the other hand, you also get a slew of other weapons. Daggers. Water. Boomerangs shaped like pluses. Also, said boomerangs sometimes do as much damage as that whip.

Enguhl
2010-07-22, 07:11 PM
Only if you name them. On the other hand, you also get a slew of other weapons. Daggers. Water. Boomerangs shaped like pluses. Also, said boomerangs sometimes do as much damage as that whip.

Hold up and mash attack like crazy. Easy mode.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-07-22, 07:53 PM
I dunno, the Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) doesn't seem that bad. Touch attacks at 15ft and anything a whip can do, it can do as well.

I mean, it's not really a whip as much as a class feature whip-shaped fire, but still...

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 08:10 PM
Neither is most the US...except, you know, the police officers, like he mentioned.

That's my point. Police officers in San Marino don't usually carry guns.

Draz74
2010-07-22, 08:25 PM
He'd need to be incorporeal for that.


Then again, there are other ways to get your Charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#armorClass)

Yes there are. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm)


The whip in DnD seems to me to be a pretty useless weapon, especially since it is exotic. Is there anything the whip is actually good for?(except maybe tripping enemies, but that is what the spiked chain is for)

There are two magic whips in Magic Item Compendium that get rid of some of the whip's more obnoxious restrictions (nonlethal damage and inability to hit armored foes). Lash of Sands and Water Whip. They're cool, but they're expensive enough that I can't really say they're excellent ... and certainly you can't base a low-level build on them. I could see a Bard picking one up at high levels just for the heck of it, though.

A whip can also hit an awfully large number of foes if you somehow get a Whirlwind Attack effect out of it. (Since nobody actually takes Whirlwind Attack, you can either enchant the whip with Whirling, or be a binder and bind Paimon.)

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 08:28 PM
Yes there are. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm)

Mickey Rourke as a nymph is not a good mental image to have.

Ilmryn
2010-07-22, 08:30 PM
Only if you name them. On the other hand, you also get a slew of other weapons. Daggers. Water. Boomerangs shaped like pluses. Also, said boomerangs sometimes almost always do as much damage as that whip.

Fixed that for you.

Draz74
2010-07-22, 08:46 PM
Mickey Rourke as a nymph is not a good mental image to have.

I know, I'm working on my Craft Disturbing Mental Image feat. :smallamused:

Kantolin
2010-07-22, 08:50 PM
Generally speaking, on a turn that you're tripping or disarming or the like, you're not particularly caring about dealing damage. Many of my tripping charactrers could care less about the extra attack you get off improved trip - the goal is to put the enemy on the ground.

That said, the biggest drawback to the whip is that it doesn't /threaten/. I'd totally take a whip that didn't deal damage if it threatened. I'm annoyed that the MiC whips don't do that, and that the only option relevantly is to whip-dagger or one of those options which does threaten.

But hey. Expansion Psychic Warrior + whip = tripping people 45 feet away. That's all kinds of awesome.

The Rose Dragon
2010-07-22, 08:55 PM
I know, I'm working on my Craft Disturbing Mental Image feat. :smallamused:

There are no rules for training time in D&D, you know.

thompur
2010-07-22, 09:00 PM
Make it a Whip Dagger. Anyone proficient with the whip is proficient with it.
It does lethal damage.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-22, 10:33 PM
Neither is most the US...except, you know, the police officers, like he mentioned.
Actually, most of the U.S. is that way (and I'm not talking about police). And wouldn't it be a shame if Indiana Jones got sliced up instead of just pulling his revolver (the legacy of Samuel Colt) on that swordsman?

Whips need backup. Also, don't dis our American icons. :smallbiggrin:

Starfols
2010-07-22, 10:38 PM
On a related note, as said above it can be used for tripping and disarming and, with proper skill tricks (or 3.0 prestige) even grab onto things. So the whip is pretty useless as a *weapon*, but not as a tool.

This. Note how Indiana Jones punched or shot at most everyone he fought with. :smallamused:


It's because of this.
http://pressthebuttons.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/31/simonbelmontb_2.png

If you simply must be a Belmont, there's always lasher. :smallbiggrin:

aivanther
2010-07-22, 10:42 PM
How well, mechanically, does a knife-whip end up working as a weapon? I'm assuming it ends up being just a little bonus to an improved trip, but is it end up being an actual damage dealer?


Actually, most of the U.S. is that way (and I'm not talking about police). And wouldn't it be a shame if Indiana Jones got sliced up instead of just pulling his revolver (the legacy of Samuel Colt) on that swordsman?

Whips need backup. Also, don't dis our American icons. :smallbiggrin:

spoilering this to avoid derailing...


Yes, iconic as that is, I don't find most the people I know walk around with a pistol. Heck, my NRA members neighbors with concealed carry license don't carry their pistols with them all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong 2nd Amendment guy. I like guns, and go to the shooting range often. But the implication that the U.S. is like the Old West where we all keep our pistols ready to blow brains out of the first person we think is a miscreant is just stupid.

arguskos
2010-07-22, 10:45 PM
How well, mechanically, does a knife-whip end up working as a weapon? I'm assuming it ends up being just a little bonus to an improved trip, but is it end up being an actual damage dealer?
The Whip-Dagger from the Arms and Equipment Guide does anything the Whip does, but it does 1d6 slashing damage with a 19-20/x2 crit. If you can't find a way to use a 1d6 damage, 19-20/x2, 15-ft range that can attack adjacent with no issues, offers a bonus to disarm checks, and can be made mighty to benefit from your strength score weapon, then I don't know what to say to you. :smalltongue:

Power Attack with it. Disarm at range. Abuse the hell out of that 15-ft range. I dunno, smack people till they break, that sorta thing. Totally fine weapon. Is it worth the EWP feat? Eh, I dunno. Personally, I say yes, but that's just me.

senrath
2010-07-22, 10:46 PM
The only problem with it is that the Whip-Dagger doesn't threaten, unless I'm mistaken.

arguskos
2010-07-22, 10:51 PM
The only problem with it is that the Whip-Dagger doesn't threaten, unless I'm mistaken.
It's counted as a ranged weapon, but I'm chalking that one up to it being in a 3.0 sourcebook that's notorious for bad editing. Since whips were shifted to melee weapons in 3.5, I feel it'd be logical and fair for a player to go, "Hey DM, I want to play this lethal whip, but they call it a ranged weapon when normal whips are melee. Can it be melee too?"

Now, if your DM doesn't agree, or is one of the types that refuses to change any printed word even if it'd be logical to do so, well then, you're shafted and it's a waste of your life. If he does change it (as I and many others I know do), it's pretty good.

senrath
2010-07-22, 10:57 PM
You don't threaten with a normal whip, either.

DragoonWraith
2010-07-22, 11:02 PM
And wouldn't it be a shame if Indiana Jones got sliced up instead of just pulling his revolver (the legacy of Samuel Colt) on that swordsman?
Hehe, he actually was supposed to grab a sword from someone nearby and have a swordfight. They filmed the scene many times going that way.

Then like 2/3 of the film crew, Harrison Ford included, got food poisoning, and he felt awful, and was tired and it had been a long and hot day, so when he got to that scene, he didn't feel like going through the swordfight and just pulled out the pistol made the shooting motion. I'm sure they had to reshoot the guy getting shot since he didn't know he was supposed to pretend to be shot, but the look on Harrison Ford's face in that scene is genuine. And awesome.

Kind of like how Brad Pitt was told Edward Norton would be punching him "as hard as you can!" in the gut, rather than the ear, in Fight Club. The response to that was also genuine.



The only problem with it is that the Whip-Dagger doesn't threaten, unless I'm mistaken.
It's counted as a ranged weapon, but I'm chalking that one up to it being in a 3.0 sourcebook that's notorious for bad editing. Since whips were shifted to melee weapons in 3.5, I feel it'd be logical and fair for a player to go, "Hey DM, I want to play this lethal whip, but they call it a ranged weapon when normal whips are melee. Can it be melee too?"

Now, if your DM doesn't agree, or is one of the types that refuses to change any printed word even if it'd be logical to do so, well then, you're shafted and it's a waste of your life. If he does change it (as I and many others I know do), it's pretty good.
Given that the normal whip doesn't threaten, and the whip-dagger says nothing about changing that... I don't think it's a minor change.

But I do think it is the right one. Attacks of opportunity are just about the only thing real-life bullwhips are actually good at. They're really useless weapons for a fight, but they do have long range, and they're constantly moving, difficult to follow, and can attack very suddenly. Very, very difficult to prevent it.

On the other hand, you can also just walk right through it and the whip-wielder would be powerless to stop you, really. He could lash you once or twice before you got into range, and it would be excruciating, but nothing about your injuries would prevent you from closing in, only your mental reaction to the pain would do that.

gorfnab
2010-07-22, 11:17 PM
If you want to build a whip using character the Lasher (Sword and Fist, 3.0) actually has some neat tricks, is flavorful, and could potentially work in combat.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-22, 11:20 PM
Make it a Whip Dagger. Anyone proficient with the whip is proficient with it.
It does lethal damage.

This a thousand times over! Good lord, the whip is obsolete in DND solely for this reason alone. It's a whip that can do lethal damage at a higher amount than the whip but with nothing else different about it.

arguskos
2010-07-22, 11:20 PM
Given that the normal whip doesn't threaten, and the whip-dagger says nothing about changing that... I don't think it's a minor change.
...I've been playing that whips threatened forever. Clearly, I was wrong. :smallsigh: Says something about the nature of whips and the idiocy of the designers, IMO.


But I do think it is the right one. Attacks of opportunity are just about the only thing real-life bullwhips are actually good at. They're really useless weapons for a fight, but they do have long range, and they're constantly moving, difficult to follow, and can attack very suddenly. Very, very difficult to prevent it.

On the other hand, you can also just walk right through it and the whip-wielder would be powerless to stop you, really. He could lash you once or twice before you got into range, and it would be excruciating, but nothing about your injuries would prevent you from closing in, only your mental reaction to the pain would do that.
All of this is awesome. I fully approve of it all. I'd also approve of a feat that permitted you to trip with whips, but that's true homebrew right there.

true_shinken
2010-07-22, 11:36 PM
...I've been playing that whips threatened forever. Clearly, I was wrong. :smallsigh: Says something about the nature of whips and the idiocy of the designers, IMO.


You could do it with Exotic Weapon Fighter's Exotic Reach, I believe.

arguskos
2010-07-22, 11:41 PM
You could do it with Exotic Weapon Fighter's Exotic Reach, I believe.
Or, since everyone I've played with in the last 5 years was under the impression whips threaten, since, well, they kinda should threaten, being WHIPS and all that, we could just keep doing it that way and chalk all this up to WotC being unique in this fashion.

Though, that's handy for if I end up having to play with someone who adheres more heavily to RAW than I'm used to, and I wanted to do a whip character.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-22, 11:49 PM
The only problem with it is that the Whip-Dagger doesn't threaten, unless I'm mistaken.
You're not mistaken. However, there's a fix: Ranged Threat is a feat in Dragon # 350 on page 90. It only works within 15', but that's just exactly how much reach range you need.

OracleofWuffing
2010-07-23, 12:22 AM
Clearly, the best uses for a whip are dealing with problems once they come along, and also giving the past a slip. They also help when good times come along, but I think there's better choices for that.