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molten_dragon
2010-07-22, 07:25 PM
Are there any rules for it?

A couple of my players and I were discussing an idea the other day. Buy a number of cure light wounds potions (say 10), cast shrink item on each of them, then put them all in a single potion vial. When you're hurt, drink the potion vial.

What we couldn't come up with is what would happen to you. Would you gain the effect of 10 healing potions at once? Would they go off one after the other, essentially giving you fast healing 1d8+1 for 10 rounds? Would you explode and die? Any ideas? I'm looking specifically for actual rules on this, but if you don't know of any (or there aren't any) your opinion of what would happen is fine too.

Thespianus
2010-07-22, 07:32 PM
The SRD for Shrink Item says:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkitem.htm


You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass).

And I think "nonmagical" is the key word here. Maybe there's another spell that would allow it, though, and then I don't know.

Theodoriph
2010-07-22, 07:35 PM
Are there any rules for it?

A couple of my players and I were discussing an idea the other day. Buy a number of cure light wounds potions (say 10), cast shrink item on each of them, then put them all in a single potion vial. When you're hurt, drink the potion vial.

What we couldn't come up with is what would happen to you. Would you gain the effect of 10 healing potions at once? Would they go off one after the other, essentially giving you fast healing 1d8+1 for 10 rounds? Would you explode and die? Any ideas? I'm looking specifically for actual rules on this, but if you don't know of any (or there aren't any) your opinion of what would happen is fine too.


One of my players made a beer hat, but for cure potions. I allowed it and stacked the effects (so they all went off at once). Whether there are official rules....I don't know.

Oh and too much of something can be poisonous. If they're planning on doing something that will break the game, then you could rules based on their constitution modifier, how many of the potions they can drink at once before they succumb to some poisonous effect. Neutralizing the poison or protecting yourself from it in advance would obviously negate or decrease the impact of the potions. I don't have anything specific in mind, but players have a way.

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 07:38 PM
It's "sort of" addressed here.


Problems of Combination

There are three things you might reasonably do that would involve combining potions. The first is to carry two or more potions in the same vial. Adventurers long ago thought that this would be a good way to drink several potions at once, assuming nothing bad happened when they were put into the container in the first place. And they tried, many times, with mixed results (no pun intended). Because they don't mix in a passive state, you can carry more than one potion in the same vial, provided you have a big enough vial. Each potion is one ounce, and potion vials are made to carry one ounce. If you want to carry more, you have to have bigger bottles made.

When several potions are added to the same vial, they layer in the reverse order that they were added, so the most recent is on top. For example, if you have a big vial to which you add a potion of fly, a potion of shield of faith +4, and a potion of cure light wounds, then they layer in the vial in that order. The consequence of this is that you must drink them in the order they are layered top to bottom, since they don't move around in the bottle for you.

You could use this layering property to create a big vial and drink a lot of potions at one time. And if you can do that, you might as well layer in six potions of cure light wounds into one vial rather than have a single potion of cure moderate wounds. But, it doesn't work quite that way. Adventurers have found that no matter how many potions they have in a vial, drinking one potion is a standard action and each layer counts as a separate potion. Thus, if you have a vial with the above three potions, it takes three standard actions to drink them. Magic liquid is like liqueur, not beer; you cannot chug it. So, if you want to carry your potions in one vial, you have to decide whether the advantage of having only one vial to grab outweighs the disadvantage of having to drink them in a certain order that may not meet your needs.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b

molten_dragon
2010-07-22, 07:45 PM
The SRD for Shrink Item says:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkitem.htm



And I think "nonmagical" is the key word here. Maybe there's another spell that would allow it, though, and then I don't know.

Huh, I guess I missed that part. I might houserule it though, since we've been playing that you can shrink magical items with it for awhile now.

molten_dragon
2010-07-22, 07:46 PM
It's "sort of" addressed here.



http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b

Is that really meant to be serious? It's on one of their april fools pages.

Theodoriph
2010-07-22, 07:47 PM
It's "sort of" addressed here.



http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b


This optional variant is actually kind of cool, especially the mixing aspects. I so want to be a mad alchemist. That'll remind me of my old childhood ascii rpg days.

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 07:54 PM
Is that really meant to be serious? It's on one of their april fools pages.Thus "sort of" addressed. It's fairly decent at addressing multiple potions in a single vial and at consequences for cheating the standard rules. :smalltongue:

senrath
2010-07-22, 08:04 PM
Personally, I'd say that if someone comes up with a way to chug multiple potions at the same they'd all trigger at once.

gallagher
2010-07-22, 08:08 PM
Adventurers have found that no matter how many potions they have in a vial, drinking one potion is a standard action and each layer counts as a separate potion. Thus, if you have a vial with the above three potions, it takes three standard actions to drink them. Magic liquid is like liqueur, not beer; you cannot chug it.
i can personally attest to the fact that, though it is not advisable to do so, that one can chug liqueur.

therefore, by my personal experience, one can chug many potions at once, but they will lose intelligence points temporarily and will not want to wake up in the morning

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 08:09 PM
This optional variant is actually kind of cool, especially the mixing aspects. I so want to be a mad alchemist. That'll remind me of my old childhood ascii rpg days.
It's also gamable.

It takes 200 potions of each type to be highly likely of getting one Discovery of each type. So with 200 potions of Lesser Vigor, and 200 potions of Shield of Faith (both caster level 1 - 50 gp/potion, costs 2,000 gp), and a few castings of Unseen Servant (mix externally), and you're set.
Results:
Explosion: Well, you need to cast a new Unseen Servant.
Lethal Poison Results: Oh, look, a pretty cloud, blowing away in the wind....
Mild Poison Results: See above.
Cursed Mixture Results: Oh, when I drink it, I've got -6 to an attribute for... one minute. No biggie, unless I'm under immediate threat.
Hostile Monster Summoned: Great... a Summon Monster I, for one round. Good thing it's a move action away! I might actually need to get a Cure Light Wounds after this! Maybe. See, after the mixing, more of these are effective than not.... which means if I'm, say, level 4, most cases I'll get at least some of the Lesser Vigor effect.
Potions Cannot be Mixed: Meh, don't care. The only one that's actually harmful (as opposed to just strange and annoying) being the opposite effect... and that's... 11 or 12 points of damage, vs. -2 AC for a bit. I might actually need a Cure Moderate Wounds after this! Maybe. See, after the mixing, more of these are effective than not.... which means if I'm, say, level 4, most cases I'll get at least some of the Lesser Vigor effect.
Friendly Monster Summoned: Great. Have a nice day mr. celestial monkey.
Potions Mix, but Not As Expected: *none* of the randomly-generated DMG potions are harmful. Don't really care.
Compatible Results: Great. A small amount of healing, or a +3 Deflection to AC for 15 rounds. Immaterial.
Discovery: What we've been looking for. Permanent Fast Healing 1, or a permanent +2 Deflection to AC? Oh yes, and they can't be stolen.

So for 2,000 gp, a day's work, and maybe a wand of Unseen Servant, if there's a magic mart (you're buying 200 potions, all at once), you get two caster level 1, 1st level spell effects, Permanently. Increase that for higher-level effects (2,000*Spell level * caster level, highest spell level = 3).

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 08:10 PM
3.X is gamable in ways that are far worse than mixing potions. :smallamused:

Lhurgyof
2010-07-22, 08:18 PM
In AD&D, they had a table for you to roll on. If you roll 100 both become permanent. I remember my friend once downed a potion of heroism and invulnerability and rolled 100.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 08:24 PM
3.X is gamable in ways that are far worse than mixing potions. :smallamused:
Well, yes, but *most* of those ways of gaming the system as early as 2nd or 3rd level aren't nearly so breakable as getting permanent low-level spells.

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 08:28 PM
Well, yes, but *most* of those ways of gaming the system as early as 2nd or 3rd level aren't nearly so breakable as getting permanent low-level spells.If your group is the type to try to do that, then you probably have issues that go beyond trying to add amusing rule variants.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 08:38 PM
If your group is the type to try to do that, then you probably have issues that go beyond trying to add amusing rule variants.
There is that. Of course, I'm just approaching things in an orderly manner, as a character with a scientist's bent might. Once you figure out mixing potions can have wildly different results.... experimentation is just a step away.

senrath
2010-07-22, 08:45 PM
Well, you're off by a 0. Buying 400 level 1 potions costs 20,000 gp, not 2,000 gp.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 08:47 PM
Well, you're off by a 0. Buying 400 level 1 potions costs 20,000 gp, not 2,000 gp.
So I am! Cool, good catch. Puts that +2 Deflection to the point where it's more expensive than the matching ring, and you're still better off with wands of cure light than the fast healing! Good.

El Dorado
2010-07-22, 08:47 PM
Haley's also done it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0517.html)(more than once, if memory serves). So, rule of cool?

Jack_Simth
2010-07-22, 08:49 PM
Haley's also done it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0517.html)(more than once, if memory serves). So, rule of cool?
Or rule of pre-combat actions not mattering much, and limited frame space.

nyjastul69
2010-07-22, 08:51 PM
In AD&D, they had a table for you to roll on. If you roll 100 both become permanent. I remember my friend once downed a potion of heroism and invulnerability and rolled 100.

Mmmmm... the potion miscibility table. I had a character die from that table once. I was convinced I'd roll well. :smalleek:

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 08:54 PM
Haley's also done it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0517.html)(more than once, if memory serves). So, rule of cool?Haley's also broken the 4th wall in order to steal diamonds so... :smallamused:

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-22, 09:07 PM
That particular chart is somewhat flawed and easily gameable, true, but it could be easily resolved by removing all external mixing results. Only when a creature that gets affected by the potions drinks the potions does the result occur.

That means that in order to get that 1% chance of making a permanent potion effect, you need to take a 1% chance of a 15d6 no saving throw internal explosion that you cannot mitigate, as well as a chance for 2d6 con damage (although with an easy fort save - the 2nd Edition version was much harsher: you just die).

Ernir
2010-07-22, 09:08 PM
Hmm. I could see an item being homebrewed to work something a bit like a Rod of Many Wands. Glass of Many Straws?

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 09:11 PM
That particular chart is somewhat flawed and easily gameable, true, but it could be easily resolved by removing all external mixing results. Only when a creature that gets affected by the potions drinks the potions does the result occur.

That means that in order to get that 1% chance of making a permanent potion effect, you need to take a 1% chance of a 15d6 no saving throw internal explosion that you cannot mitigate, as well as a chance for 2d6 con damage (although with an easy fort save - the 2nd Edition version was much harsher: you just die).Maybe we should just steal the 2nd edition chart

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-22, 09:33 PM
It's actually got less results and more chances of mixing potions to normal effects, it's just that the lethal poison negative effect has no saving throw and no damage - you just die.

Only on 25 and below does anything bad at all happen, and from 9 to 25 all that happens is you either lose the potions or they have reduced effects. So you've only got an 8% chance of something really nasty happening. Losing (permanently, remember 2E had no ability score damage/drain) 1 point of strength and dexterity with no saving throw, straight out dying, or probably dying from 6d10 damage (and remember 2E HP totals were much lower).

And it was even more easily gameable: all the bad effects could be produced externally, so any potion that didn't blow up or turn into a cloud of poison was safe to drink and may be a Discovery.

Of course, in 2nd Edition magic rules, minimum level for potion creation was 9th, you needed a laboratory of 2000 gp minimum (plus the cost of the actual building/room to house the equipment in), you only had a 70% chance to make the potion, minus 1% for every 100 GP of components, plus 1% for each caster level. Getting enough potions to actually game this: damned unlikely to happen.

Runestar
2010-07-22, 09:40 PM
Well, you know those water backpacks the runners carry around with them? What's to stop say, an ogre wearing it and continuously sipping from it while fighting the PCs? :smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 09:42 PM
Well, you know those water backpacks the runners carry around with them? What's to stop say, an ogre wearing it and continuously sipping from it while fighting the PCs? :smallbiggrin:
The fact that burning standard actions to use the cure series is generally a bad tradeoff? :smalltongue:

Runestar
2010-07-22, 09:54 PM
The fact that burning standard actions to use the cure series is generally a bad tradeoff? :smalltongue:
If he is able to keep sipping his pack of CLW while fighting, shouldn't this make quaffing a potion a free (or maybe swift) action each round? :smalltongue:

Kylarra
2010-07-22, 09:58 PM
If he is able to keep sipping his pack of CLW while fighting, shouldn't this make quaffing a potion a free (or maybe swift) action each round? :smalltongue:Nope. It's still a standard action to drink a potion, bar homebrew/houserules.

nyjastul69
2010-07-22, 10:01 PM
A Camelbak of Many Potions?