[3.5] Beastiarius Build

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Applying for a game here on the forums as a Beastiarius.

Plan is to use either Druid or Wildshape Ranger, combined with some way of obtaining Sneak Attack, to qualify for Savage Grapple. Going with a serpentine theme, using venomous snakes as animal companions where they are obtainable, and going for Beastmaster eventually to boost my companions. Human, of course, since the game is set in Rome. Using a shortspear and shield, like a beastiarius in the arena would.

The basic concept is a sneaky combatant who uses snakes and their venom, and becomes a snake when he can, to envenom and grapple and crush his opponents.

The game is low-magic, so if I start as a druid I likely won't be able to use my spells for a while, and someone else is applying as a Celtic druid. Thus, WS Ranger is preferred.

Stats are as follows.... (unfortunately)
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[14]
(4d6b3)[11]
(4d6b3)[12]
(4d6b3)[7]
(4d6b3)[13]

No restrictions on source yet. But assume it's for a historically accurate game set in 55AD Rome.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Bumping to see if I can get some feedback on this, since I think the DM wants a final build in today.

[Eldariel]

I'd consider using Martial Study and Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance [ToB] for SA to go for Craven [CoR]. You can also use Mystic Ranger [DR336] with the Serra Mystra substitutions [CoV] to cast Hunter's Eye [PHBII] on high-enough level to get some SA and qualify for Savage Grapple. Either way, Craven is the main addition here.

Snake Companion is good if you can keep up the level. Unfortunately, without Druid-levels that's not happening with your native Animal Companion so I suggest Beastmaster-base with Natural Bond to fit it in the same build, and just find some way to stack it with Master of Many Forms. Though Druid is the easiest way, of course. Either way, you want to get to Multiattack-part so it gets the iterative, which is a great addition for something poisonous. Serpentine forms aren't all that powerful in Wildshape, except they qualify for Venomfire which is a great spell. Haste yourself for a second attack and you're fine. I think you'll actually end up best as a straight Druid in spite of me wanting to suggest Wildshape Ranger, simply because:
- Ranger AC is gimped and Mystic Ranger gets none at all.
- Your combat style is best supported by few unnoticable (outside magical scrying) buff-spells.
- You wouldn't need to multiclass at all. With feats, you can pick up SA and Craven, and then focus on Grappling and be fine'n'dandy. You can refluff some spells like Babau Slime [SpC] to something appropriate like "Viper Coating" to add to efficiency while keeping the theme too.

Just refluff your Druid so heavily that you're barely distinguishable as a Druid; focus on Snake-only spells (by the way, "Mass Snake's Swiftness" is excellent with one-hit creatures like Snakes) and don't think the class, think the abilities. Don't forget that you get Venom Immunity at 9, which just makes all manners of sense for you. So...yeah. Druid it is. Straight. With feats to do everything. Just make sure your spells are the subtle type that would fly in a world like this, and refluff the visible ones into snakiness and you'll be fine (Entangle could obviously be "snakes spring to constrict targets" for example).

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, skip Beastmaster entirely, use feats to get a stance and use the trait Craven to crank that stance's output up to 3d6, Savage Grapple in Wildshape?

[Eldariel]

So, skip Beastmaster entirely, use feats to get a stance and use the trait Craven to crank that stance's output up to 3d6, Savage Grapple in Wildshape?

That seems like the easiest way to do it. At best, Beastmaster is a 1-level dip anyways since the additional Animal Companions are keyed off only your Beastmaster level making them incredibly gimped. You can pick a second one up with Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) though and simple Handle Animal can get you additionals.

But it seems like your plan just plain works best for Druid N. The other option would be like Wildshape Ranger 5/Beastmaster 1/MoMF 2/Rogue 1/etc. creating a total mess that has a gimped animal companion (because it's Ranger meaning even with Beastmaster, it's not even equivalent to one of equal level Druid's), gimped Wildshaping (you'll take forever to get to Large Snakes) & lack of some spells that could mitigate this. Oh, and the mess of qualifying for things.


And I suggest you pick up the feat Craven, which increases your Sneak Attack damage by +Character Level, giving you effective +CL to all grapple damage; very useful.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Craven doesn't increase sneak attack dice, it's a feat that adds your character level to your damage whenever you deal a sneak attack. You can find it in Champions of Ruin.

Consider picking up Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), you can have it from level 1 and it's likely to be stronger than your Ranger companion.

I'd go with a Druid and only use spells which fit your character's snakes/trickster theme, along with summoning snakes via SNA. For 1st level spells use Enrage Animal, Wall of Smoke, and Magic Fang. Your 2nd level spells should include Venomous Volley (DR330), Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Nature's Favor, and Mass Snake's Swiftness. At 3rd you can use Poison, Snakebite, Greater Magic Fang, and I'd keep a Neutralize Poison prepared since you can swap it out for another SNA. Plus you can take ranks in Craft: Poisonmaking from Complete Adventurer since at 9th level you won't have to worry about accidentally poisoning yourself.

I'd go something like Druid 6/ (Unarmed) Swordsage 2/ Druid 12, with Wild Cohort, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, Savage Grapple, Craven, Quicken Spell, and either Natural Bond or Darkstalker. I'd take Hunter's Sense and Assasin's Stance, with Action Before Thought, Sudden Leap, Shadow Jaunt, Emerald Razor, Wind Stride, Flashing Sun, and for your one 2nd level maneuver the choices would probably be Insightful Strike, Flesh Ripper, Shadow Garrote, or Fan the Flames. For your Discipline Focus I'd probably go with Tiger Claw, since no discipline has bite as a favored weapon.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, at first level, Human Druid 1, with starting feats Wild Cohort and Martial Study (something from the Shadow Hand discipline?).

Just found out I can use a 32 point buy instead of my roll, so I would obviously want to up Wisdom. I'll be fighting with shortspear and shield in the arena.

Is there any way to work stealth skills into the build? So I can sneak into senatorial mansions and release my swarms of vipers?

[Eldariel]

So, at first level, Human Druid 1, with starting feats Wild Cohort and Martial Study (something from the Shadow Hand discipline?).

Just found out I can use a 32 point buy instead of my roll, so I would obviously want to up Wisdom. I'll be fighting with shortspear and shield in the arena.

Is there any way to work stealth skills into the build? So I can sneak into senatorial mansions and release my swarms of vipers?

Well, the Shadow Hand Martial Study actually gives you Hide in class. Combine that with Druid Magic like Camouflage and you'll actually be an excellent hider. Move Silently is harder (curiously D&D Snakes don't have much of it either), but there is actually a means to pull it off: Nightbringer Initiate in Faiths of Eberron gives you Hide & Move Silently in class along with a handful of negative energy spells (easily fluffed as poison of different kinds). So there's one option.

You could also take Greensinger Initiate [Eberron Campaing Settings] and ask the DM if you could get Move Silently instead of Hide (it makes sense) 'cause you already get Hide from another source; that would get you Bluff and Perform in class also which could be useful for a person in your line of work, and some interesting manipulation spells (charms, hold, and some stuff like displacement).

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Isn't there a halfling druid substitution that gains Hide and Move Silently?

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that because they get no class substitutions, humans could be allowed to take other substitutions that make sense for them. I don't think it's Rule as Written, and the Nightbringer Initiate looks like a nice, quick solution.

For the Martial Study, do I have to take actual swordsage levels for that? (I'd prefer not to, I'm not a big ToB user, mainly because I'm so unfamiliar with it, and I don't generally like my fighters to feel like casters. I guess I could go with it this time, since I'm already a caster anyways...)

If I'm wildshaping, what should my point buy focus on? I'll also be doing a good bit of fighting in human form (for the first five levels, at least) so I don't want to dump all my physical stats.

[Eldariel]

Isn't there a halfling druid substitution that gains Hide and Move Silently?

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that because they get no class substitutions, humans could be allowed to take other substitutions that make sense for them. I don't think it's Rule as Written, and the Nightbringer Initiate looks like a nice, quick solution.

No such rule exists far as I know. Yeah, Halfling Substitutions do get said skills, but again, Human. Nightbringer is probably the easiest.


For the Martial Study, do I have to take actual swordsage levels for that? (I'd prefer not to, I'm not a big ToB user, mainly because I'm so unfamiliar with it, and I don't generally like my fighters to feel like casters. I guess I could go with it this time, since I'm already a caster anyways...)

No, it's just Biff's preference. Personally, I prefer maxing out Animal Companion, Wildshape and casting and thus avoid dipping, even if it means not getting Wis to AC.


If I'm wildshaping, what should my point buy focus on? I'll also be doing a good bit of fighting in human form (for the first five levels, at least) so I don't want to dump all my physical stats.

Well, Wis and Con are the obvious maxes. You'll want some Int since you want an expansive skill list maxed (probably Spot/Listen too?), and ~14 Str and Dex would get you along fine before Wildshape, especially if you simply cheat a bit and use some small buff spells to keep up.