View Full Version : Rogue Variant Class

2010-07-23, 12:40 PM
Rogue Variant: Spy
The spy always seems to have the answer to any problem. He gives up some of the rogue's combat prowess in exchange for some limited casting abilities.

Class Skills
The spy's class skill list includes Speak Language, and all Knowledge skills. The spy gains skill points per level equal to 6 + Int modifier (and has this number x4 at 1st level).

Class Features
The spy has all the standard rogue class features, except as noted below.

Sneak Attack
The spy's sneak attack advances every three levels.

A spy casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast. A spy knows every divination spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

To learn or cast a spell, a spy must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a spys’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the spy’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a spy can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Spy. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

A spy can cast spy spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a spy wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass spy still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. Additionally a spy doesn't require material components for any spells cast from his list.

Lore (Ex)
Thanks to training in a variety of fields, a spy has a wide range of stray knowledge. This ability is identical to the bard's bardic knowledge class feature, using the spy's class level in place of the bard level.

This ability is gained at 3rd level and replaces Trap Sense.

Special Abilities
Add Sudden Inspiration and Extended Divinations to the list of Special Abilities that can be chosen by the spy.

Rapid Information: Divinations cast by the spy can be quickened for free. This only applies to spells with a standard action casting time and spells of at-least one level lower than the highest spell level they can cast.

Extended Divinations: Divinations cast by the spy can be extended for free. This ability stacks with the Extend spell feat.

Spy Spell Per Day





















2010-07-23, 01:30 PM
Compare what you're giving the Rogue over what the WotC variant, Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) gets. It's the same reduced sneak attack advancement and skill points, but it only gets 5th level progression from a tiny list instead of an entire school of spells (not to mention that Psionics is, by and large, weaker than magic).

2010-07-23, 01:47 PM
True, now compare my class to a Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5.

2010-07-23, 02:02 PM
The power of that build comes almost exclusively from its Wizard levels and not at all from the Rogue. Compared to the standard Rogue, this variant is not balanced.

2010-07-23, 02:26 PM
You are absolutely correct. My variant is better than the standard rogue. It might even bump it up to a tier 3 class.

That said Psychic Rogue isn't balanced compared to the base rogue either. I would much rather have a decent spell list over 3d6 more sneak attack. Anyways who take rogue for 20 levels anyways? In all my years of gaming I have never seen a player do it. They almost always multiclass or take a prestige class ASAP.

The build I posted has +8d6 Sneak Attack, Cast Level 9 Divination Spells with a caster level of 23 and casts level 7 spells from all other school with a caster level of 14. This build does give up Uncanny Dodge and has a d4 vs d6 hit die, but I don't think many people would argue that my variant is better.

2010-07-23, 02:34 PM
An Ardent 1/Wizard 3/Cerebremancer 10/Wizard 4/Ardent 2 has 9th level spells and 9th level powers (using Practiced Manifester). Does that mean that we should make a Wizard class that gains psionic powers built in, because a specific class/PrC combination allows this to occur?

2010-07-23, 03:05 PM
It's still moot. The idea isn't to build a class that can keep up with sayyy Tainted Scholar. It's to make a fun rogue/caster that doesn't need to multiclass to be powerful. I honestly don't understand why you're so up in arms about it. WotC has been buffing classes through ACFs and substitution levels for years. And -- it's Divination only (if I read right). How can that be awful?

I feel like if he'd called this "new base class: Spymaster" instead of a rogue variant, there'd be no issue.

The class looks fine and dandy. And I think it's better to compare this to a Beguiler.

2010-07-23, 03:34 PM
Do not forget the Nightsong Infiltrator

Andion Isurand
2010-07-23, 04:03 PM
A rogue with Lore is a good idea.. although in my PrCs I call the ability Descry since it sounds more proactive.

Then of course I end up applying the Bardic Knack variant from PHB2, which I think is great.

Right now the base classes that enjoy the feature are the Bard (& variants of the bard), cloistered cleric and the filidh (a variant wizard from Dragon Magazine 324 pg 90)

2010-07-23, 04:42 PM
Dear god help me. What im about to suggest I should burn in hell for 500 years for. -shivers-

Ever considered using the swordsage maneuvers and re-flavoring the shadow hand, etc, schools to be non-magical? Such as 'crippling strike', 'air jump', etc, and then giving the rogue said maneuvers?

Rogue's shouldnt know magic. Sure, they can jury-rig wands and stuff out of luck or some training, but... all in all, rogues are thiefs, spys, assassins, thugs, swashbucklers, or urbane types. They, 9 out of 10, are street suavy/street smart and had to aquire their own skills to survive in their current field of work. Im not saying thats -all- rogues are, but im just saying unless its in a HIGH magic world, like faerun on crack, its just using magic to cure something weak. Two wrongs dont make a right, boy. I am so tired of people using magic on non-magical based classes to try to 'fix' them. Fighters with dispelling strike and the ability to fawking fly, seriously? Rogues who can divine and use mage hand at will? When the heck did everyone get gestalt levels in sorcerer ffs?

Every class has their individual charm. Stop gestalting everything to find a cure for imba between them. Be original and find something that fits. As-is, this is nothing more then your attempt to get 4 classes into a single one so you can likely multiclass even -more- and make some godlike imba kobold demi-god - or your dm's enforce multiclassing exp penalties, and your trying to avoid it. Either way - my 2 cents deem this a cheap variant.

Edit: My opinion may be harsh, but its honest. Sorry if i came off offending/etc. I have no issue with you or your work, i just dislike this variant.