View Full Version : [3.5/Pathfinder] Help a Newbie Rogue

2010-07-23, 03:18 PM
Hello. I've never played a rogue before, and am about to start a campaign in which I am playing one. I need some help coming up with a build. Here is what I am allowed to use:

Pathfinder Rules
Core Rulebooks (phb, phb2, dmg)
All Complete books (Complete Adventurer, Scoundrel, etc)

Here are my goals:

High mobility
Finesse fighting
Dual wielding
Optimizing sneak attack
Useful Skill Tricks from Scoundrel
Countering magic users if possible (encounters with them are likely in this campaign)

As I've said, I've never played a rogue before, and this will be the first campaign my group has run using Pathfinder rules. I've noticed that Rogues seem a lot better compared to Core rogues, and in general have a lot more feats.

My character is an Elf. For his background, he is an agent from an organization that is comparable to the Assassins from Assassin's Creed, and so I would like to emulate a sneaky, mobile, finesse killer. Any help or tips (even a leveling plan) would be great!

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-23, 04:45 PM
Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233#post8711233) 3.5 specific though, but AFAIK the similairies in Pathfinder and 3.5 are enough for you to apply the advice.

Also you might want to try and dip swordsage to get both assassin stance (+2d6 SA) and shadow blade feat (Add dex modifer in addition to str) both in Tome of Battle

2010-07-23, 04:58 PM
Thanks for the link, I am giving it a read right now.

I would love to use some of the stuff in other books, but my DM is adamant about the books we are allowed to use, so I can't use Tome of Battle. I'd also love to look through Sword and Fist, but we can't...

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-23, 05:07 PM
Ok then....well I don't think I have better advice than the guid...

Might not be optimal but one of my favorite roguish build is Ranger 2/Rogue 3/Assassin 10/Rogue +5

Ranger helps with BAB, gives some nifty bonus and saves you a feat on TWF.

And even if you play with multiclass exp penalties this build doesn't incurs it.

2010-07-23, 05:15 PM
The big thing to remember in pathfinder is that MOST things can be sneak attacked. (Rogues are useful again wheee!)

2010-07-23, 05:21 PM
Get Minor Magic and Major Magic so you can get Dispelling Strike at 10th level, if you're going up against casters.

Paul H
2010-07-23, 06:47 PM

Just a thought - by why not just stick within the Pathfinder ruleset? Remember - in PF Undead can be Critted & Sneak Attacked!

And ask if you can access PF Traits to 'flesh out' your character.

PF Rogues get Rogue 'Talents', like Combat Feats, Bleeding Wounds, etc. Just started a PF Society Halfling Rogue. 20pt buy.....

St 10 De 18 Co 14 In 14 Wi 10 Ch 10

Traits: Combat - +1 dam on flanking. Equipment - Heirloom Wpn (Rapier) [MW Rapier for free]

1) Rogue: Wpn Finesse (plus Rogue stuff)
2) Diviner : +1 Init. Always act in Surprise round. Arcane Focus (Ring for extra spell), Truestrike as bonus spell.
3) Rogue: WPn Prof [Scimitar] feat. Rogue Talent Dervish Dance (use dex to hit/damage with scimitar) NB. Buy MW Scimitar

Now your Scimitar is Attack +7, Dam D4+4 (plus sneak) at 3rd lvl. Use wands for Shield spells, etc.

Paul H
PS I'm going Arcane Trickster with this one.

2010-07-23, 11:20 PM
Get Minor Magic and Major Magic so you can get Dispelling Strike at 10th level, if you're going up against casters.

Minor Magic and Major Magic are really useful, I love them!

I'm not very good with rules when I'm not playing, and I haven't played all summer, so I can't recall any especially useful advice for you, but I'm playing a rogue in Pathfinder (a kender, actually!) at the moment and I really like it as a class. Keep as high a Dex as you can (mine's at 24 - I rolled 18, +2 for kender, and added everything I could) and take Weapon Finesse as soon as you can, that's my advice!

2010-07-23, 11:49 PM
Minor Magic and Major Magic are really useful, I love them!

They are super fun! You can get a ton of different stuff - ranging from the boring yet practical (true strike), to the super fun if you get creative (ghost sound!)

FUN FACT: At level 10, you can take Quicken Spell-like Ability and use Major Magic as a swift action!

2010-07-24, 01:17 AM
Thanks for all the advice so far, it's been very helpful. I've come up with a sample build I'd like some opinions on.

Beginning Stats:

DEX 18
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 12
CHA 10

Point Value: 32

With Pathfinder Elf Bonuses:

DEX 20
CON 12
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 10

We are beginning at level 1. I am malleable as to how I arrange these levels if someone has a better suggestion and am omitting the basic class features. But, know that I have Spell Reflection and Disruptive Attack instead of Evasion and Uncanny Dodge as I would be getting them later from Shadow Dancer, and Shield of Blades instead of Dodge bonus from Swashbuckler.

Rogue 1, Combat Reflexes
Swashbuckler 1, Weapon Finesse
Rogue 2, Spell Reflection, Bleeding Attack, Dodge
Rogue 3
Rogue 4, Disruptive Attack, Combat Trick, Mobility, Two-Weapon Fighting
Swashbuckler 2
Swashbuckler 3, Daring Outlaw
Swashbuckler 4
Shadowdancer 1, ?
Shadowdancer 2
Shadowdancer 3, Fast Sealth, ?
Rogue 5
Rogue 6, Trap Spotter, ?
Swashbuckler 5
Swashbuckler 6, ?
Swashbuckler 7
Swashbuckler 8, ?
Rogue 7
Rogue 8, Quick Disable, ?
Rogue 9

Beginning with Shadowdancer, I am not sure what feats I should pick up. By level 20 I should have:

Spell Reflection
Disruptive Attack
Grace +2
Int Mod to Damage
+4 AC (Shield) when making a full attack.
Hide in Plain Sight
Improved Uncanny Dodge
9d6 Sneak Attack (With 9 HP/Round Bleed)
Darkvision 60ft
Always have flanking from companions or shadow minion

Paul H
2010-07-24, 06:15 AM

Since you'r able to mix PF/3.5, have you thought about Rogue/Swashbuckler mix, with a level dip into Diviner? There's even a feat in the PF Qadira book that allows you to use your dex instead of str to hit/dam with a scimitar. (Dervish Dance).

Rogue 3/Swash 3/Div 1 (Stats as given). You'll act in surprise round, +6 Initiative, Scimitar attack +10, Dam D6+9 (plus 2D6 sneak). Use Shield spell for AC, Grease to inhibit enemies (your Acrobatics easily allow you to cross it), True Strike for those really nasty foes, and Mage Armour. Take Practiced Spellcaster for CL 5. You can also use wands for extra Dex.

With right feat mix, go Dervish.

Paul H

2010-07-24, 10:47 AM
Hi Paul. Yes, I did consider the Dervish Dance, but as far as I know we're not using any of the Pathfinder companion books/magazines, just the core stuff. But, I am also going for dual wield to maximize sneak attacking and to take advantage of Shield of Blades from Swashbuckler, and Dervish Dance is not compatible with two weapon fighting (I believe the feat says it only works if you don't have another weapon or a shield in your off hand).

2010-07-24, 11:52 AM
Knowledge devotion is incredibly helpful to TWF and will fit with your finesse/caluclated fighting.

2010-07-24, 01:57 PM
Thanks Tibor, I didn't even look at that. I think I will get it, possibly with Jack of All Trades, and will also get Collector of Stories.

Paul H
2010-07-24, 07:18 PM

Erm - yes you can TWF with Dervish ability, (just not the Dervish Dance from PF), but only Slashing weapons. So in theory, you could TWF with Scimitars.

Not sure how useful it is, but Two Wpn Rend does D10 + [1 1/2 times Str mod] extra damage.

Your Rogue's sneak, plus the Int mod dam bonus to dam could be useful. Level dip into Diviner allows you to act in the surprise round, plus access to useful spells like Grease, Shield, etc.

Paul H
PS With Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 3 you can meet prereqs for Dervish, use Scimitars with TWF, even have Imp TWF for 4 attacks/rnd!

2010-07-24, 11:04 PM
Dont blow a feat on weapon finesse. Rogues can take the ability as one of their rogue talents. you get it by 2nd of not 3rd level.

Being sneaky helps alot. Duh. But there are other ways of getting a sneak attack. My rogue had imp trip. when the enemy is on the ground they lose dex, and had a -4 penalty. With pathfinders greater trip this can really get ugly.

With pathfinder giving a feat every even level pluss the rogue talents you have alot of options in combat. I'd go for imp faint or disarm as well.

Paul H
2010-07-25, 10:19 PM

Whilst Imp Trip is very nice - prone targets still maintain their dex, and are NOT subject to sneak attacks. For that you'll have to flank, etc. as normal.

Paul H
PS And Swashbucklers get Wpn Finess free at 1st lvl