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Heimdol the red
2010-07-23, 08:00 PM
so i hear they can plot, and mangle, and eat peoples babies, but what else?

ok another question is there any advice for solo evil campaign structure etc thanks.

WeeFreeMen
2010-07-23, 08:05 PM
I ran one for a friend, they are quite fun. What level of power are you wishing to scale off of? What version of DnD/PF? What level to start?

Just some more details can help us help you ^_^

However, I find it most easy to run an Evil PC campaign in reverse. Build an NPC adventuring party of GOOD to oppose your PC of Evil. Key your world off the player. etc.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-23, 08:09 PM
I ran a campaign where the party was a group of enforcers for a powerful crime lord. They beat people up, extorted money, and in the downtime, did everything a standard adventuring party does, but for motives of purely 'money!" instead of "Heroism (and money)".

Yukitsu
2010-07-23, 08:09 PM
What kind of evil? There's that whole scale of realistic villainy to outright cartoon bastardry.

hangedman1984
2010-07-23, 08:13 PM
they do eevviiiiiilll!!!!

Boci
2010-07-23, 08:19 PM
Set up and run an guild that thrives on illigal activities, destabalize and eventually wipe out an entire city/nation/race or safe the world from destruction (since they do not want to rule a pile of dust) but whilst doing so manipulate events so that they emerge in a powerful position.

Doresain
2010-07-23, 08:24 PM
orchestrate a war between two settlements of different races that hate eachother (orcs and elves for instance), then after they kill eachother, swoop in kill the survivors and profit from the carnage by looting everything of value (including corpses...never know when you'll run into a necromancer or some flesh eating beastie you could ally yourself with later)

Dr.Epic
2010-07-23, 08:35 PM
Spread evil the same way a good PC tries to spread good.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-23, 09:06 PM
At low levels expect an evil PC to be like a neutral PC, it's only the motives that are different. Mid-low levels is when the villainy starts expect them to kill plot NPCs often. Mid-high be prepared for Tippyverse caliber evil. High levels an Evil PC will go around blowing up entire planets with antimatter bombs. And at epic levels, well then you need to stat up the gods, cus uh... yeah.

arrowhen
2010-07-23, 09:11 PM
Kill each other, usually.

Tiki Snakes
2010-07-23, 09:20 PM
What do evil pc's do?

Whatever they damn well like.
Depending on the likely consequences of course.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-23, 09:22 PM
What do evil pc's do?

Whatever they damn well like.
Depending on the likely consequences of course.


See 8-bit Theatre.

Also, I don't find this question so puzzling. They do the opposite of what the good PCs do. We think the world is filled of good people so evil people must live in caves or villain bars but plenty of people in society are corrupt and would fit an evil alignment.

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-23, 09:32 PM
Whatever they want to do, basically. It really depends on whether you're going for cartoonish evil or realistic evil.

In the latter instance, remember that no evil creature considers itself evil (except a fringe case that is irredeemably insane, as well). It may recognize that society at large considers it evil, but as far as its own personal viewpoint is concerned, its actions are not inherently wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean it wants to spread its own philosophy, just that...it behaves in a way that, as far as it is concerned, is the correct way to be, even if a significant portion of society considers that 'evil.'

Evil characters have realistic goals - in many ways, more realistic goals than good ones, because many of them tend to be more practical, down-to-earth types that focus on accomplishing tangible goals that directly affect them, while many times good characters have unmeasurable goals such as 'spreading good,' 'vanquishing evil' and 'making the world better.' An evil character's goal is more likely 'making the world better for me.'

Not all evil characters have dreams of conquest or domination, either. They may be content to build a small out of the way stronghold where they can live a comfortable life, waited on hand-and-foot. Some of them genuinely want to improve the world for everyone - but they also use themselves as a measuring stick for the improvement. These types tend to have a 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' attitude, deciding and acknowledging that any price is worth it as long as it improves the world at large. In a realistic example, a scientist or doctor who conducts horrible experiments on people in order to provide the greatest possible benefit in the quickest timeframe for society at large is a decent example of an evil character.

Personally, when I create an evil character, I tend to avoid trying to make them entirely greedy and self-focused, because that way lies the cartoonishly evil mustache-twirling villain. I find it better to make them care about things. Either specific individuals, or the world, or the betterment of a particular race, or whatever.

Another very easy and realistic evil character is the extreme racist. Any character that comes from either a persecuted, or declined race could very easily see the dominant race(s) of the world as their enemies for a variety of reasons, and while they may have started out with entirely reasonable and good perspectives, they go so far as to become terribly evil while still considering themselves quite good. The Eldreth Veluuthra are a good example of an organization that holds viewpoints like this, considering humans as vermin that are the cause for the elven decline.

While thieves' guilds, assassins' guilds, and criminal organizations are all good choices as well, they often have more overhead. Some of the above characters can be run in a typical campaign backdrop, doing typical adventurer things, while a thief guild character - particularly one in control of such a guild - would often have a number of complications on top of normal play. But if you feel up to the task, such a campaign can also be quite interesting. It requires a lot of roleplaying with and through minions and underlings, though.

Alternately, the character can be a minion or underling in an evil organization, or freelance. They may a Cleric of Bane, for instance, and thus have a lawful and orderly organization telling them what to do. Again, these can be more typically structured adventures, with goals determined by their superiors in their organization. You can easily come up with goals for the character's adventures based on the needs and overall machinations of the organization. A Cleric of Bane working for the Zhentarim could be tasked with destroying an enemy trading company that is the only other source for goods in a particular remote region, thus allowing the Zhentarim to gain an exclusive market in the area - which could then lead to establishing dominance over the area, building up the local Banite faith, and so on.

An entire campaign could also easily revolve around an assassin working for a particular assassins' guild, the missions she gets sent on, and so on. The character's eventual goal may be to rise in ranks and take over the guild themselves, or they may be a consummate perfectionist, happy to do the bidding of others with their only goal to be the best they could possibly be at their chosen profession - much like Artemis Entreri in his younger days. The assassin could discover plots by other evil characters and good characters alike to stop him or bring down his organization, and need to thwart them just like a group of good adventurers would thwart evil organizations working against their favored church/monarch/country/etc.

Reluctance
2010-07-23, 10:27 PM
Who's asking for the evil campaign? In most cases, "evil campaign" usually means "excuse to blow off steam and act in shockingly antisocial ways". Give them mildly annoying/antagonistic figures of Good and Law, and they're pretty much self-starting. Although if you don't have a strong stomach, this is me giving you an advance heads up. It ain't pretty.

Well played evil characters require motivations and goals. (So do well played good characters, but your average good character is going to be more party- and plot- friendly than your average evil character.) So if the player comes in with a detailed background, you have your answer right in front of you. If all you have to go off of is "I want to play an evil character", randomly antisocial/antiauthoritarian is a safe bet.

Tono
2010-07-23, 10:32 PM
I am tempted to say "The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to take over the world!" But it was done recently so it seems... off. >>

Snake-Aes
2010-07-23, 10:34 PM
so i hear they can plot, and mangle, and eat peoples babies, but what else?

ok another question is there any advice for solo evil campaign structure etc thanks.

:) It's much more than that. Evil doesn't imply someone that does things "for the evulz". In fact, most evil people don't even consider themselves such.

Take, for example, my character. She's Chaotic Evil, she's not afraid of putting a world of hurt...but that's hardly what she does. She's a glory hound, and seeks to forge legends, to be forever remembered with whatever identity she assumes.
Recently, she captured and killed a big crime boss because he was making more ruckus than normal. She also took over the business.

She also enjoys musing on Life, the Universe and everything, being an excellent companion to chat with while traveling. Oh, and she can't stand the party's rogue's cowardice.
Earlier, in the Flying City of Vectora, she revealed and thwarted the Cartel of Monster Medics, and a few weeks before she assumed the semblance of a pallid knight, riding to sow pain and suffering on the villages of Fortuna.

HunterOfJello
2010-07-23, 10:47 PM
Evil PCs do the exact same things that Good PCs do. They just do them in a different manner and for different reasons.


Besides, most PCs are actually evil and insane at heart anyway. They don't care about NPCs, they are unerringly selfish and will attempt any sort of mission that is sure to kill them, just for fun.

Gavinfoxx
2010-07-23, 11:07 PM
Evil PCs do the exact same things as good PCs: Kill things and take their stuff.

Lysander
2010-07-23, 11:20 PM
Far too often players take on the "stupid-evil" alignment, where they assume that their only purpose is to sow death and destruction. They start massacring villages at level 1, then get very petulant and upset when the police come and arrest them. People have posted some very refreshing takes on evil in this thread, such as Snake-Aes' glory hound.

Basically, evil means you're willing to hurt others to achieve your goals and/or you enjoy the suffering of your enemies. It all depends what your goals are and/or who you view as an enemy.

Heimdol the red
2010-07-24, 12:06 AM
thanks for the advice a lot of it makes since, but another quetion would be what can i expect from a most likely stupid-evil brawler

Heimdol the red
2010-07-24, 12:11 AM
sorry about the spelling there its been a long day

742
2010-07-24, 02:14 AM
evil player characters do the same thing as evil antagonists or the less heroic protagonists; like these (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0877057/) ones (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0003807/).

honestly i never had the problem with "stupid evil", i like my villians smart.

when ive run games i always make sure my players always know this. they also know what happens when they make a character concept a personal insult.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-24, 02:23 AM
Travel to new places.
Meet interesting people.
Kill them.
Take their stuff.
Feel good about themselves for what they've accomplished.

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-24, 02:25 AM
If the player is probably going to play 'stupid evil' and you're ok with that, then you can probably expect them to go around randomly murdering people without much of a reason, stealing, and generally being a giant jackass without being particularly smart about it. If you have several group members, you can probably also expect them to fight and try to murder each other over every tiny argument, simply "because they're evil."

If you're not particularly ok with that, as I certainly wouldn't be, point out that being evil does not mean actions don't have consequences, and then make sure anytime they do something stupid they get the proper reaction. And to force them not to constantly backstab each other, make them be part of a regimented evil organization that doesn't tolerate that kind of thing.

Elana
2010-07-24, 04:44 AM
Wait, are you saying there are non evil PCs?

What do they do?

(I mean going out invading the homes of some other species and mass slaughter them must be out even for neutral ones (so no dungeon crawls))

How can any adventurer be anything but chaotic evil?

(If they were lawful, they would have a real job and so no time to go on adventures, and if they were not evil they wouldn't want to kill anyone)


Okay, maybe there could be someone with a neutral alignment, willing to fight to defend others.


But a good character would only try to capture a villain, but would never even attempt to kill anyone.
(Much like the heroes in TV shows, so maybe there is a way to play that, but I have never seen anybody play an RPG like that)

Corlindale
2010-07-24, 05:59 AM
To me there is clearly a difference between the "ideologically evil" characters and the merely "selfish evil" characters.

The ideologically evil characters are actually committed to spreading evil, and will kill and terrorize just for the sake of it. A good example might be an evil cleric of a god of destruction and slaughter, or the like. Or he may just be sadistic in nature.

The selfish evil character is not actively committed to spreading evil, but is merely looking out for himself - and doesn't care who gets hurt along the way. He may not actually seek to hurt people, may even try to avoid it because it is impractical, but will do it if necessary. He may or may not enjoy hurting people.
This kind of character may actually act like a neutral or even good adventurer in many situations, the difference is in his final motives, and in the methods he is willing to use.

I generally prefer playing/GM'ing for the latter type of character, as I think it is probably both the most common and most "realistic" kind of evil. Very few people are actually ideologically committed to evil for evil's sake, with death, pain and destruction viewed as goals rather than means (though there are clearly more of them in the D&D universe than in real life).

Yora
2010-07-24, 06:39 AM
We played City of the Spiderqueen as a group of Vhaeraunite surface drow. The PCs got send to investigate some strange activities in an enemy stronghold and seeing the Lolth priestesses in trouble they exploited the opportunity for all it was worth. When they found out there was a change in power going on, they decided to throw in their own bid and snatch away the prize after the Lolth and Kiaransalee faction had weakened each other.

true_shinken
2010-07-24, 10:58 AM
Earlier, in the Flying City of Vectora, she revealed and thwarted the Cartel of Monster Medics
I believe a certain doctor and a certain dwarf gunslinger have already beat her to it, sir.

Freylorn
2010-07-24, 11:07 AM
Spread evil the same way a good PC tries to spread good.

By stabbing things and taking their stuff?

Orzel
2010-07-24, 11:08 AM
I played a evil cleric whose duty was to make people die in the most hilarious way possible to amuse their patron. NPCs kept him around just to focuS him toward the BBEG.

He was literally doing it for the lulz.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-24, 11:41 AM
I believe a certain doctor and a certain dwarf gunslinger have already beat her to it, sir.

Zebediah Nash, gentleman adventurer doctor namalki rider, yeah, but we are playing before that timeline.

chiasaur11
2010-07-24, 12:47 PM
If they're low level and not stupid?

Merc work, generally.

Killing dudes for money? Ethically ambiguous at best. And a team with no ethics is going to get some jobs everyone else would turn down.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-24, 01:17 PM
Although there's nothing technically wrong with playing Comedic Evil, if it's a campaign that can support that kind of thing, I like Evil because it lets me get away with characters that have realistic reactions to the horrible backstories that I subject them to.

The best time I'd ever had in a game was when I was playing a Lawful Evil blue (psionic) goblin. He was a sociopath, and enjoyed hurting others like he was used to being hurt, and he used his adventuring as an excuse to give him an outlet for his sadistic rage, and his teammates to protect him while he did so. He was amazingly loyal to them, to the point of betraying an epic level BBEG that was blackmailing him into serving her. He liked building himself up to be much more powerful than he actually was, bragging constantly about this or that or the other. He was egotistical and thoroughly enjoyed the party's admissions of his being MVP whenever it occurred.

He couldn't do nearly as much damage as anyone else, and he didn't do much in the way of status effects, but his main abilities revolved around crowd- and battlefield-control, and he was quite good at tying down the enemy until the rest of the party could take them down (astral constructs are especially good at this, for single opponents). However, he liked describing his supporting endeavors in such a way that he was made out to be the main hero. He also shouted epithets and insults during his fights, and enjoyed using his brains and cleverness to outwit and humiliate his opponents, as well as to inflict as much unnecessary pain as possible.

And yet he willingly helped orphanages and soup kitchens, because it helped his image (though it was usually through his utility constructs, because he didn't like getting his hands dirty).

It was riotous fun.

WarKitty
2010-07-24, 01:37 PM
Again, depends on the type of evil you want.

One of my favorite characters was a NE druid. He believed quite firmly in the "law of the jungle" as he saw it. I'll let him speak for a bit here:

"See, this civilization stuff is just a way to pretend we're not animals. In nature, there are predators and there are prey. There is no love and no hate. The strong survive; the weak die. There is no time to coddle the weak. Look at how a wolf-pack operates. They hunt and pick off the weak. They cooperate with each other, not out of this silly abstraction you call 'love', but simple mutual benefit. If you can contribute to the pack, welcome to it. If you can't, you get left behind. That's the way nature operates. If you were honest, it's how your civilization operates, you just hide it behind your false veneer. You help those that help you, and you kill those that don't. Are your wars really anything more than territory disputes over who has the best hunting grounds? Or your slavery and class systems anything more than a way for the strong to take what they want from the weak? You may call me evil, but I am no different from you, merely honest about it."

Darcy
2010-07-24, 01:45 PM
They find their own motivations, and pursue them ruthlessly. We have an NE druid in our current group, but it actually makes sense, since the things we're fighting in the campaign cause just as much trouble for a druid of any alignment as they do for decent folks like the rest of us.

super dark33
2010-07-24, 02:28 PM
this:

DM:ok what do you want to do?
PC:we burn a village.
DM:well ok......

two meetings later

DM:ok no village burning this time!
PC:ok, we raid a village

WarKitty
2010-07-24, 02:35 PM
this:

DM:ok what do you want to do?
PC:we burn a village.
DM:well ok......

two meetings later

DM:ok no village burning this time!
PC:ok, we raid a village

That sounds more like stupid evil. There are so many ways to play evil other than straight psychopath...

super dark33
2010-07-24, 02:45 PM
well, you can also make deals with demons,
help an evil warlord
be an evil mercenery
lead a bandit camp
etc

Snake-Aes
2010-07-24, 02:47 PM
You can be a smartass who happens to be utterly psychotic against acceptable targets. Quite a few of the sadist types get away with that.

Gamblerjoe
2010-07-24, 02:54 PM
ill give some examples from the evil campaigns iv been involved in.

the first game i DMed was an evil game. the party operated mostly out of a huge lawful evil metropolis and worked toward gaining station there. everyone had their own motives. fighter A wanted to slaughter monsters, and gain renown. once when raiding some kobold caves, he slaughtered some of their prisoners because they didnt speak common. the tattooed monk saught challenge and to push himself as hard as he could. he got one of his tattoos while the party was traveling 7 days on horseback to get to their destination, with no time to spare. the monk force marched (force sprinted) himself to the monestary, got his tattoo, and continued to the rendezous beating the rest of the party by nearly half a day. the daggerspell mage liked mischief and pretty much found it everywhere he went. he managed to lie to a good aligned cleric in a zone of truth and pass the will save.

what do evil pc's actually DO? "Darkhand" the NPC assassin wants to rise through the ranks of "the hunter's guild." he overtly uses the PCs to help him do this. the character served as comic relief as he thought he was the dog's nuts, and that everyone was buying everything he said. in truth the party know what was going on and were just using him for his contacts and trapsmithing abilities.

one scene: in order to let the sneaky character (the monk) actually use his unique combination of toughness, speed and stealth i did this. i split the party up and put them into different parts of the same town. they each had a job to do. the monks job was to act as an escort for Darkhand as he assassinated a noble. they took out the first 2 guards silently in 1 round. the stuns followed by a dual weilder with sneak attack were a deadly combination. they were in, out and reinvisible in about a minute.

in another evil game i was a player. we were all anthropamorphic animals, and i was a rat assassin. it took place in the beastlands. the story was that monoliths were rising and acting as transports for yugoloths. they were working on establishing a power base, while learning how to send bigger and bigger monoliths. all of the most capable warriors of the beastlands traveled to the village of the wisest and most respected shaman. he would perform a ritual using the runes and divination and the...the whatsis. the idea was he would name 6 names, who would be the heroes trusted to search for the source of the monoliths. a few of the names were foregone conclusions. its like if hercules, conan, chuck norris and luke skywalker all showed up. much to everyone's chagrin, none of those names were called out. thanks to the sneaky ratsassin our evil party got named, and we set out to twist the unfolding events to our own purposes.

the hilarity ensues. so my rat character has abysmal strength, but great dex and int. hes definitely on the small end of small. he took exotic weapon proficiency and weilds a bow that is twice his height. the only time he pulls out a melee weapon is to kill someone in their sleep. so... were trying to rig an election and get a polymorphed yugoloth elected. after coersion failed on a few key individuals, it was time to follow through with our thinly veiled threats. fast forward to another stealthy nighttime infiltration of someone's house. this one was not nearly as smooth. ill spare you the gorey details, but suffice it to say, without his sneak attack, the rat has a tough time with even a small child.

iv also been in some poorly run evil games that wernt very story driven. conveying the story, and rewarding your PCs for furthering the story is the most important thing. PCs will find ways to be evil. one thing PCs should not do in the name of being evil is anything that causes disputes between players. this ranges from stealing from party members, to even attempting to coexist with a good character.

Thiyr
2010-07-24, 03:26 PM
Perhaps the most memorable character I've played as of this point was Jack, a LE Aasimar (yes, he was decended from a good outsider) Warlock. What did he do that was notably evil? Honestly, not all too much. Being in a mostly good/neutral party, he tended to be outnumbered when decisions were being made. But when it came down to efficiency, he was unfettered in all regards. He worked his best at doing the thing most likely to succeed, regardless of any other type of viewpoint, including the murder of innocents, poisoning, and charming people that were attempting to short him on a job. He was a team player, true, but he was undeniably his own little sub-team. Sacrificing a teammate for the sake of defeating the BBEG (when it wasn't the only option just yet) was something he didn't blink an eye at. Playing off of another party member's backstory to trick him with half-truths into a faustian pact was something he had done before and would do again as opportunity arose. And yet for all this, as I said, he didn't end up doing a great much of "evil" in the game. It was a few small cases early on, and his demeanor that solidly put him in the players/DMs mind as evil. Probably didn't hurt that he consciously chose to be evil, and knew it. This is proabably the only reason I will say that one doesn't need to be insane to choose evil in d&d. Because morality is black and white, it's harder to say that what you're doing is good when others don't agree. It is, however, easier to say that your way is a better way, or a necesarry way, or the easier way, and choose it because of that.

Mnemnosyne
2010-07-24, 03:31 PM
this:

DM:ok what do you want to do?
PC:we burn a village.
DM:well ok......

two meetings later

DM:ok no village burning this time!
PC:ok, we raid a village
If we assume they're high enough level that no one in the village (or all of the villagers combined) is a serious threat to them, then the question remains as to whether they're high enough level that the king's army/other applicable authorities of the region is no threat to them as well. Because if not, a couple burned villages means you've got a brigade of soldiers from the king's army hunting you down, and good luck dealing with them the same way you dealt with a few commoner 1's. If not the army, then a local archmage who's second cousin twice removed happened to be one of the peasants from that village, etc.

If the players want to play stupid evil, they should be reminded that there is always, always, someone out there bigger and more powerful than them that will take unkindly to their indiscriminate butchery.

WarKitty
2010-07-24, 03:39 PM
If we assume they're high enough level that no one in the village (or all of the villagers combined) is a serious threat to them, then the question remains as to whether they're high enough level that the king's army/other applicable authorities of the region is no threat to them as well. Because if not, a couple burned villages means you've got a brigade of soldiers from the king's army hunting you down, and good luck dealing with them the same way you dealt with a few commoner 1's. If not the army, then a local archmage who's second cousin twice removed happened to be one of the peasants from that village, etc.

If the players want to play stupid evil, they should be reminded that there is always, always, someone out there bigger and more powerful than them that will take unkindly to their indiscriminate butchery.

Now if you really want to burn down a village...it's much better to maybe find an lantern that someone "forgot" to take with them and left right near all that flammable hay...and then maybe encourage the flames a bit from your hiding spot just outside the village, no one needs to know where that freak wind came from now do they?

Starbuck_II
2010-07-24, 04:40 PM
so i hear they can plot, and mangle, and eat peoples babies, but what else?

ok another question is there any advice for solo evil campaign structure etc thanks.

They conquer nations, destroy/pillage, etc.
Example:
Dan's character Tetsuo wants to burn the world.
Jill's Rugaru wants to fight and challenge herself (using anymeans neccessary to beat her opponents). The thrill is the important part.
Bateman's Count Massari wants to kill the Baron who robbed him of the lives of hids wife/child. He'll pay any price and do any deed neccesary to kill that man.
Joe's Domovoi is an assassin. He kills for money/magic items. He also kills if you learn of his identity as he loaths for that be known.

This webcomic if where they are:
This is where characters create thier PCs. http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=466
Start of evil campaign:
http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=469

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-24, 10:36 PM
I was once in a evil game. All the characters had CN alignments, but that wasn't stoping us from being total money grubbing ba*****rds. The funny part is that we ended up working for a good king's moraly questinable spy master and the DM had him pay us more to bring back living prisoners who knew important things. We rarely killed as it cut into our bottom line to much. Except that one time someone didn't pay us. Then there was fire, lots of fire.

All the while one of the party was an exception to the alignment. There was a single LG crusader who actualy wanted to help the king and not just get payed. The back and forth as he worked to keep the other characters from desending into true evil was hilarious. He stoped even trying to turn us good and simply resigned to keep us pointed at the right people to kidnap.

Fiery Diamond
2010-07-24, 11:13 PM
Wait, are you saying there are non evil PCs?

What do they do?

(I mean going out invading the homes of some other species and mass slaughter them must be out even for neutral ones (so no dungeon crawls))

How can any adventurer be anything but chaotic evil?

(If they were lawful, they would have a real job and so no time to go on adventures, and if they were not evil they wouldn't want to kill anyone)


Okay, maybe there could be someone with a neutral alignment, willing to fight to defend others.


But a good character would only try to capture a villain, but would never even attempt to kill anyone.
(Much like the heroes in TV shows, so maybe there is a way to play that, but I have never seen anybody play an RPG like that)

I love this post, because I actually have an answer.

The most recent campaign that I ran had 4 players, and none of them were evil. Three of them were Good and one was Neutral.

1) Elf-girl twin A, rogue//ranger. Chaotic Good. "I pick locks...for justice!" Basically, she's there to have a good time and enjoys randomly chatting with people, but she's highly intelligent and while she has no qualms about killing things that are trying to kill her, she would never kill someone that was helpless, and would prefer taking prisoners to killing. Freely flaunts the fact that she's a badass 16 year old (appearance-wise), but goes out of her way to help others and reigns her neutral sister in.

2) Elf-girl twin B, cleric//bard. Chaotic Neutral (player claimed she was Good...but really, more neutral). "For mind f-ing and knowledge and laughs and helping friendly people/innocents." Has a sadistic streak that she keeps in check at all times by subverting it into less harmful things like pranks. No qualms about killing evil people, unless she knows already that they might be able to be redeemed, in which case she does anything possible to redeem them. Mostly in it for herself, but she will go out of her way to help others.

3) Half-elf woman, monk//sorcerer. Lawful Good. "To better myself and do my duty." Strong on honesty and duty, she acts as one of the leaders of the group. She enjoys spending time with others who share her interests and bettering herself, both in terms of magic and skill and in terms of spiritual life. Enjoys fighting, but not to the death.

4) Elf man, druid//ranger. Neutral Good. "This is my tiger, Byakko. He won't hurt you unless you're evil." The most level-headed of the group, this character loves nature but is willing to go just about anywhere with his friends to do good and help others. When not communing with nature, he's helping people.

Campaign:
1) Find evil things, kill, loot, celebrate was not the norm for this campaign.
2) It's more like: explore ruins, maybe run into monsters that must be killed, find knowledge and loot.
3) And then also: hired to escort a person, defend him, use whatever force necessary to reliably survive, perhaps loot perhaps not.
4) Chase criminal who they have a vendetta against, defeat him without killing him, subdue him, bring him to the law, collect reward, and try to rehabilitate him (despite him being an insane CE character...they wanted to see if they could remove his insanity instead of killing him.)

Dr.Epic
2010-07-24, 11:22 PM
By stabbing things and taking their stuff?

pretty much, they are PC after all

chiasaur11
2010-07-25, 01:08 AM
pretty much, they are PC after all

Conan is a role model for the more moral sort.

The gap between good and evil here is a little shaky at times.

Haarkla
2010-07-25, 05:54 AM
so i hear they can plot, and mangle, and eat peoples babies, but what else?
My neutral (tending evil) PCs go on quests for financial reward, occasionally steal each others items, cause bar fights, desecrate good temples for fun, cause chaos for fun, shoot first and ask questions later, kill non-threatening monsters and take their stuff, and kill fleeing enemies.

Mystic Muse
2010-07-25, 06:02 AM
Wait, are you saying there are non evil PCs?

What do they do?

(I mean going out invading the homes of some other species and mass slaughter them must be out even for neutral ones (so no dungeon crawls))
Depends on the campaign.


How can any adventurer be anything but chaotic evil?
(If they were lawful, they would have a real job and so no time to go on adventures, and if they were not evil they wouldn't want to kill anyone) Lawful does not mean you have a 9-5 job every day. Good doesn't want to kill when it doesn't have to (usually) but they'll still kill.




But a good character would only try to capture a villain, but would never even attempt to kill anyone.
Wrong. Good does not mean Pacifist.

Self defense is not evil and is not out of line for a good character. I'd post an example but I can't think straight after a night of no sleep.

Elana
2010-07-25, 07:19 AM
I might have not been completely serious with my post, but I think I defend my position nevertheless.

Self defense only works when you are attacked. Not if you are the attacker.

So the point remains good characters try to capture villains, not kill them.
Sure they might use lethal force when they have to, but that is always the last option considered.
(For examples, watch any TV show where the heroes are supposed to be the good guys.)


And randomly wandering around in hope of finding trouble is a chaotic trait.

Lawful characters might not have a job from 9 to 5, but that is only because the kind of characters suitable for play have more like an 24 hour obligation.
(For example when they have to defend a castle in an disputed border region)


So to summarize.
It is possible to play lawful good characters and still have adventures.
But that game would be totally different from the way most people play DnD.

742
2010-07-25, 07:28 AM
hey, lawful people can go about gratuitously murdering people too! how else would you explain evil armies? maybe the evil group of lawful people is an elite unit of eeeeeeeeeeeeevil working behind enemy (non-evil) lines to do whatever it is you decide they're there to do!

Snake-Aes
2010-07-25, 07:31 AM
"And randomly wandering around in hope of finding trouble is a chaotic trait."
No. That's a troublemaker's trait. A CG guy wouldn't enter the prefecture building and slap the village elders with a trout just because he can. Nor would anyone, really. People need reasons to do those things.

And "just because" is a mix of insanity and stupidity, not a chaotic alignment.

Haarkla
2010-07-25, 07:40 AM
So the point remains good characters try to capture villains, not kill them.
Sure they might use lethal force when they have to, but that is always the last option considered.
(For examples, watch any TV show where the heroes are supposed to be the good guys.)
Real life is not TV. Often you have to strike from secrecy against overwhelming force, and taking prisoners is not an option. Or the bad guy needs to be eliminated, not contained. Or no prison can hold the big bad.

Weasel of Doom
2010-07-25, 08:28 AM
As has been said by a few people, evil can be played as Stupid-Eeeevil but that is definately NOT the only way to play evil.

Almost all my characters are evil in some way or another.

The most common evil for me is the well-intentioned extremist or someone who just feels that end justifies the means, any means. For example he is utterly devoted to King and Country and will do absolutely whatever it takes to protect the citizens of that country and serve his king. He doesn't want to do what he does and spends his nights wracked with guilt and self-hatred but he swore an oath to protect the nation. Hell, he began as LG (almost paladin in shining armour style) but gradually fell to LE because of the steps he felt he needed to take for the mission.
Sure, the king he serves is LG and would be disgusted at what he has stooped to in order to achieve the king's goals but so be it, protecting the king's innocence has become just another of his duties.
Anyway, his ultimate goals and even many missions are pretty much the same as any good but nationalistic party, its just the methods may be very different.
Similar to this sort of character is the vigilante cop who cuts corners and violates rights to put away (or just flat-out muder because he knows the courts won't convict) the man he "knows" is guilty.

Wooh Firefly
Operative: ...I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

tl:dr
Evil characters can do just as many things as good ones, or even more. They can heroicaly ride into battle to fight off the daemon incursion singlehanded (whether for the political power such an act gives them or because they genuinly want to serve the city). Or they can sit in an alleyway kicking puppies and torturing orphans.
Just make them real characters with proper emtions and goals

(or kick back and run through towns burning hospitals and chopping down civilians for the lulz, whatever's fun for the dm and players I guess)

Evard
2010-07-25, 08:36 AM
See 8-bit Theatre.

Also, I don't find this question so puzzling. They do the opposite of what the good PCs do. We think the world is filled of good people so evil people must live in caves or villain bars but plenty of people in society are corrupt and would fit an evil alignment.

Read it twice if need be

Or watch this :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g

oxybe
2010-07-25, 09:58 AM
the most blatantly evil character i played was Shump.

warlock 16 / mindbender 1 / hellfire warlock 3

to call Shump "mad" would be a little bit off... he was quite literally the crazy bum who lived in the cardboard box behind the kinko's, but that was a bit part of the act. he was still sane enough to recognize what he was doing, but still not all there due to the voices in his head.

he epitomized the negative qualities of the adventurer, or at least the typical Dragon Warrior hero: he didn't have a home and would barge into your house, say hi, grab your stuff, tip his hat in your direction, leave and if you put up a fuss, kill you on the spot.

now this scenario for the most part involved brigands, pirates or ne'er-do-wells (and later cultists and demons) but that's only because the nobility figured it was best for them to have a vicious bastard under their command rather then against them, and the other heroes thought it more prudent to keep an eye on this cannon and point it towards "good" rather then leave him unchecked.

and shump was willing to oblige. he knew what he was doing and his method was "wrong". he didn't care, he's long been desensitized to the violence and craziness of it all.

i mean, when the voice in your head tells you that you can tap into raw eldrich magic and make some guy's face a'slpode off and only 3 seconds later you succeed in doing so, you start to listen to said voice.

and sure the whole screams of "oh noes, grabby tentacle doom!" or the "aaaarrg, the caustic slime... it burrrrns!" might get annoying but hey, it beats being on the side that's screaming, right (the extra few hundred GP a month from wages+spoils isn't a bad deal either)?

and yeah, accepting a demon's blessing will might not be the most righteous course of action, but hey, the demon's working with us towards a common goal now and i got a few nifty powers to boot.

and the lich? a stand up guy really. so he commands a legion of undead, big deal. the guy keeps his deals and is quite knowledgeable, so why not help him out of the abyss and back into the prime, eh? he's a walking, talking archive! someone like him should be treasured!

so this makes me evil? seems that way but i'm now that i retired rich, own an island, have a villa, a laboratory, am a priest for the demon queen of the succubi and have a high level lich buddy on the next continent. PLUS i'm treated as a hero and a korddamn national treasure. the peasantry is more then willing to put aside a few facts if their dirt hovels are safe! crime doesn't pay, but evil sure does!

hamishspence
2010-07-25, 01:21 PM
You could play an evil character as Dexter-ish- they know they have a case of extreme sadism, and choose (partly because of residual morality and a desire to protect the innocent from themselves and their victims, partly because they know that people won't complain nearly as much) turn it on those who "deserve to be treated that way".

Of course, some people insist that a character who only horribly flays villains alive, cannot be any worse than Chaotic Neutral. Still. If you are going for "some acts are evil and will lead, eventually, to an evil alignment" as a basic rules precept (supported by the splatbooks more than by the PHB) this is a perfectly valid interpretation of an Evil character.

Ormur
2010-07-25, 09:22 PM
If I were playing evil I'd pick one of two concepts.

The casually psychopathic character that is friends with the party members or sees them as valuable allies if the former is unrealistic but has no qualms about committing horrifying acts of evil if it comes out better for him and his friends.

Or the idealistic evil guy that has a cause which involves doing a lot of evil acts to advance it. Ridding the world of a particular type of people, like a race, or simply that the cause is more important than the lives of other people. Spreading his religion, unifying the old kingdom or changing society very radically.

Elana
2010-07-26, 11:30 AM
Real life is not TV. Often you have to strike from secrecy against overwhelming force, and taking prisoners is not an option. Or the bad guy needs to be eliminated, not contained. Or no prison can hold the big bad.

Why would he need to be eliminated an not contained?

Because your Evil boss said so?

Murder is always evil, no exception.
And no killing someone in self defense is not murder.

But killing someone, when you didn't have to, is.


So sure if you end up in an ambush and have to kill a few orcs that is okay for good characters.

But if you go around and kill goblins for stealing bread it isn't.



And if you really face a situation with an enemy who can't be imprisoned...how do you keep him dead?

Soul Bind is level 9 magic and so beyond most normal adventurers.
But a cleric of 5th level could use nice effects like bestow curse to reduce the casting attribute of an enemy by 6 points.
probably enough to keep them from using their real powerful spells to help them escape.
(Starting with level 9 there is also the option to use Mark of Justice with the clause to activate when spell casting is attempted, to avoid the whole issue of overcoming a saving throw)

Choco
2010-07-26, 01:27 PM
I have an evil character right now in a mostly good party. He is fighting for the same reason they are, to save the world. He exists in the world so it would be inconvenient for him if it were destroyed. He is also smart enough to not take any job offers from the villains cause working for team evil is never good for anyone who is not at the very top of the food chain.

The only real difference between him and the rest of the party is that he does whatever it takes to win/meet his goals without any thought to the morality of the issue. If a few villages full of orphans suffering from terminal diseases need to be sacrificed to delay the destruction of the world so be it. The rest of the party insists on doing the heroic thing and doing everything they can to save everyone.