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Zovc
2010-07-24, 01:10 PM
I'm making a character for the Neverending Dungeon, I'm going to be doing the Duo Dungeon with DMofDarkness who is a Binder//Sorcerer.

After considering my options, it looks like it is boiling down to one of four racial choices: Human, Strongheart Halfling (not sure that's allowed, but I'm not sure I want to use it yet), Lesser Tiefling, or Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling.

Naturally, Human and Strongheart Halfling carry the benefit of their bonus feats. Tiefling, on the other hand pumps my Intelligence and Dexterity/Constitution (Dragonborn).

The feat Knowledge Devotion seems like it would synergize well with my class combo (makes me better at hitting and killing things, Factotum can boost the knowledge check). Then again, that would eat up my only avaliable feat as a level 1 Lesser Tiefling.

Basically, what I need help with is: Should I go with (Dragontouched/) Lesser Tiefling, or should I go with Human or Strongheart Halfling, and should I take Knowledge Devotion or something else as my feat? (As a Human/Strongheart Halfling, what should my second feat be?)

Glimbur
2010-07-24, 01:50 PM
Knowledge Devotion requires 5 ranks in a knowledge, so you cannot take it at first level.

Consider Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws if Magic of Incarnum is an allowed source. It's effectively ten extra hp, which is significant at level 1.

balistafreak
2010-07-24, 01:55 PM
Knowledge Devotion requires 5 ranks in a knowledge, so you cannot take it at first level.

I've always wondered: does that preclude trading the Knowledge Domain for said Devotion at 1st level?

(It doesn't seem to, but...)

Kylarra
2010-07-24, 02:06 PM
I've always wondered: does that preclude trading the Knowledge Domain for said Devotion at 1st level?

(It doesn't seem to, but...)Even though text trumps table, based on the other devotion feats and the table, it seems like KD isn't supposed to actually have prerequisites.

Either way, it's not a question of whether it would preclude the trade, but whether or not you'd actually be able to use KD at first level.

Zovc
2010-07-24, 02:20 PM
Upon further examination, is Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling really all that good? At level 1, I'm trading +1 to AC (presumably almost the entire time), Initiative, the off chance I need to use a bow, and the off chance I'll need to be sneaking for a +1 to my hit points, Concentration, and my already "Good" Fortitude save.

10 HP certainly seems more useful than 1 inspiration point an encounter, for sure. Should I consider Asurin as a race?

I'll check on Knowledge Devotion requiring 5 ranks in the application thread, chances are it'll be off limits.

Glimbur
2010-07-24, 02:37 PM
10 HP certainly seems more useful than 1 inspiration point an encounter, for sure. Should I consider Asurin as a race?

Azurin is nice if you're going to do anything with Incarnum and you don't need the human skill point or the Strongheart small size. I would probably go with the halfling if I could, and if not then Azurin.

Zovc
2010-07-24, 04:05 PM
I can't take Knowledge Devotion at level 1, it turns out.

Are there any other feats worth considering? I'm looking into Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws, and I will probably just take two flaws for Font of Inspiration.

Can anyone think of any particularly potent feats before I go through with this as a Lesser Tiefling?

Jota
2010-07-24, 08:50 PM
Fire elf (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/UA:Fire_Elves) is an alternative if you want to go into eternal blade, which complements the whole factotum/warblade Intelligence emphasis fairly well. Here's (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_of_Time_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29) an optimized build based on said premise, if you care to have a look-see.

dgnslyr
2010-07-24, 09:03 PM
If you're going with elf, slapping the arctic template on it works nicely- get rid of the icky con penalty with a cha penalty in its place.

Zovc
2010-07-24, 11:33 PM
Fire elf is an alternative if you want to go into eternal blade, which complements the whole factotum/warblade Intelligence emphasis fairly well.

I'm not sure what Eternal Blade is, but I doubt it's within my reach. If this character makes it past the first floor, it probably won't make it much farther.

As such, I'm going for a very here-and-now build.

Also, Dragonborn is the only legal template, dgnslyr, so no arctic template.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-07-25, 12:16 AM
Eternal Blade is a prestige class in ToB, and it's quite good from what I recall. It requires BAB +10, so there's no telling if you'll make it that far.

Stone Power is extremely good, and grants its benefit regardless of whether or not you hit with any attacks. It's something you can do on a round when you don't use any strikes so you can recover your maneuvers. Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon with armor spikes is a superb tactic for the lower levels. EWP: Gnome Quickrazor (RoS) with max ranks in Iaijutsu Focus (OA) and a Sorcerer casting Grease under your foes will make quick work of anything. Don't forget EWP is one of those feats which you can switch around what weapon it applies to via weapon aptitude.

If you're going to take Font of Inspiration, you'll want to have it at least three times. You could go with a Strongheart Water Halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) to get an extra +2 Con and a swim speed. Another option would be to just go all-in for combat feats with a Dragonborn Water Orc.

PId6
2010-07-25, 12:30 AM
Stone Power is extremely good, and grants its benefit regardless of whether or not you hit with any attacks.
One neat trick with this is to take a standard action every round out of combat attacking the space in front of you with full Stone Power. This will net you a good amount of temp HP every turn in case of traps or surprise attacks. Definitely do it before taking your move action for the turn, since you might step on a trap.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-25, 02:06 AM
{Scrubbed}

The Rabbler
2010-07-25, 03:26 AM
One neat trick with this is to take a standard action every round out of combat attacking the space in front of you with full Stone Power. This will net you a good amount of temp HP every turn in case of traps or surprise attacks. Definitely do it before taking your move action for the turn, since you might step on a trap.

I would like to point out that he's going into the neverending dungeon. There will be traps, there will be death, and tricks like this result in one or both of these.

back to the subject. I made a character very similar to the one that you're making right now. I found dragonborn human to be a good race (also, strongheart halfling is not allowed IIRC).

though, in case you might want to change your build a little: incarnum does VERY well in the neverending dungeon. particularly a ranged-focused incarnate/totemist :smallwink:.

Sliver
2010-07-25, 03:39 AM
I would like to point out that he's going into the neverending dungeon. There will be traps, there will be death, and tricks like this result in one or both of these.

There is death, and there are traps, and none of them is changed by the trick you use, unless they changed NED since the time I DMed there. Tricks to get around most HP damage are expected there. Infinite healing or DR are almost a must there. Temp HP to soak up damage from traps will reduce death, not increase it.

Zovc
2010-07-25, 08:31 AM
{Scrubbed}

Others of us have standards, too, standard actions that need using! :P

It looks to me like Stone Power will only be useful if I have a stone dragon strike or stance, and only in combat. Chances are, if I'm using a standard action, I won't be able to work on a trap that turn, right? Although having 2 temporary hit points seems pretty cool any time I attack or use a certain maneuver.

Haha, I just thought of someone using Cunning Surge to abuse Stone Power. :smallbiggrin:

Reynard
2010-07-25, 09:05 AM
Stone Dragon maneuver's will be usfull in the NED, because, most importantly they can ignore DR, and also add decent amounts of damage. The whole "have to be touching the ground" thing isn't hard to do when most of the terrian is narrow tunnels.

Sliver
2010-07-25, 09:36 AM
Others of us have standards, too, standard actions that need using! :P

It looks to me like Stone Power will only be useful if I have a stone dragon strike or stance, and only in combat. Chances are, if I'm using a standard action, I won't be able to work on a trap that turn, right? Although having 2 temporary hit points seems pretty cool any time I attack or use a certain maneuver.

Haha, I just thought of someone using Cunning Surge to abuse Stone Power. :smallbiggrin:

Stone Power is used for negating traps by those who can't detect them. If you are taking 10 on searching every square, which is useful only if you have more than +10 on search (as in, +10 isn't really enough, even for the first floor, for some of the traps) then you don't need to use Stone Power to explore. If you don't have a high search bonus, you will have to roll a lot and you will miss traps and you will get hurt. Travel cautiously and carry a long stick.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-25, 09:42 AM
Stone Power is used for negating traps by those who can't detect them. If you are taking 10 on searching every square, which is useful only if you have more than +10 on search (as in, +10 isn't really enough, even for the first floor, for some of the traps) then you don't need to use Stone Power to explore. If you don't have a high search bonus, you will have to roll a lot and you will miss traps and you will get hurt. Travel cautiously and carry a long stick.Celestial monkeys help.

Sliver
2010-07-25, 10:02 AM
For a level 1 factotum//warblade?

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-25, 10:11 AM
For a level 1 factotum//warblade?Yes. You don't need ranks in Search if they can "find" all the traps for you.

Greenish
2010-07-25, 10:28 AM
I found dragonborn human to be a good raceHow so? You lose what makes humans good when going dragonborn.

Evard
2010-07-25, 10:36 AM
Yes. You don't need ranks in Search if they can "find" all the traps for you.

I had a friend who played a paladin... as punishement for crimes against his kingdom a bunch of goblins were made to serve community service under him... He told them to go "find" traps.... Yeah they found them alright...

Greenish
2010-07-25, 11:49 AM
I had a friend who played a paladin... as punishement for crimes against his kingdom a bunch of goblins were made to serve community service under him... He told them to go "find" traps.... Yeah they found them alright...Reminds me of a certain thrallherd's "Elite Trapfinding Squad"

Zovc
2010-07-25, 11:53 AM
So, Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws and Stone Power means I'm using two feats. Taking a flaw at that point for one Font of Inspiration may or may not be worth it (In other words, the gains of 1 inspiration/encounter might be greater than the penalty of a flaw). It's more than likely that another feat somewhere is better than one instance of Font of Inspiration is, though.

Or should I go Human and get those two feats, then two flaws for two Font of Inspiration?

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-25, 12:45 PM
So, Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws and Stone Power means I'm using two feats. Taking a flaw at that point for one Font of Inspiration may or may not be worth it (In other words, the gains of 1 inspiration/encounter might be greater than the penalty of a flaw). It's more than likely that another feat somewhere is better than one instance of Font of Inspiration is, though.

Or should I go Human and get those two feats, then two flaws for two Font of Inspiration?Virtually all of your class abilities run off of inspiration points, so you'll have to plan on ways to get around using them (such as via wands, scrolls, and other magic items) or get numerous instances of Font of Inspiration, especially if you use your class abilities a lot each fight (adding Int to attack, damage, AC, and saves, especially), or if your battles run overlong.

I usually get two flaws at first level and take at least two FoIs, using my third feat for something useful, such as Combat Reflexes. If my Dex is considerably higher than my Str, I'll take Weapon Finesse, grabbing Shadow Blade later on, after I dip into swordsage (which works wonderfully with factotums, by the way).

If I'm playing as human or strongheart halfling, I'll take a third FoI. +6 IPs at your first few levels is pretty darned strong.

Cadian 9th
2010-07-26, 08:27 PM
If you are using High int, A Drow Focused Specialist Abrupt Jaunting Wizard//Facototum does quite well. Take Mind over Body and 2 font of inspirtations, dump con and strength, focus on orb attacks. High dex (20) and Int 20 makes you good at avoiding traps, since every trap is an encounter, and if something nasty gets you, immediately teleport with abrupt jaunt. Keen Intellect allows you to dump wis as well.

You need healing though. Perhaps crusader with Shape Soulmeld (Theraputic Mantle) is in order, but with the Drow build you can always stock up on wands/potions and not get hit anyways. The Int monk is pretty good, sleeping tiger nets you weapon finesse.

The problem is with Warblade//Factotum is that... nothing really.

If you do go down the mystic route, take wild cohort and an elemental envoy, wizard Animal Companion and avenger druid (wis to AC as well, simple variant) or Barbarian. Take share soulmeld, and Shared Fury suddenly you have a bunch of animals running around with either acid spits or DR 4/magic etc, +4 str and con. The Tempestan has a good ranged attack and can fly, or the geodite is handy as a tougher guy.

Dante