Help! My bathroom floor is covered by chalk!

[Miklus]

Help a bachelor out! How do I get that annoying yellowish chalk of my bathroom floor? So far I have tried:

1) That stuff you use to de-chalk coffee machines (an acid, pH value 1).

2) Brown soap (pH value 11...you can see I tried to be scientific about it).

3) The acid and the brown soap together (that was when I was forced to read the labels on both products due to the violent chemical reaction and the stinking cloud that occured)

4) Steel wool pads. I used up one of them on a 1x1 inch tile to no effect, then gave up as there is thousands of such tiles.

And there is really a thick layer on there. The amout of chalk in danish water is extreme, at least in my area.

[Player_Zero]

...You have chalk in your water?

How does that even... Huh?

...Maybe wait until it dries and a dustpan and brush? A vacuum cleaner?

[Zen Monkey]

Weird.

Anyway, chalk is essentially calcium. So, look for some CLR or equivalent (calcium, lime, and rust remover). I'm not sure what the equivalent product would be wherever you are, as I only know that it is sold all over the US.

I'm not sure what's in it (not home right now) but this is the stuff:
www.shopclr.com

[Lady Tialait]

Sounds like Hard Water Stains, rubbing alcohol works well for me.

If that doesn't work...try something that Billy Mays sold.


Edit: Yeah, CLR usally works too.

[Ravens_cry]

...You have chalk in your water?

How does that even... Huh?

...Maybe wait until it dries and a dustpan and brush? A vacuum cleaner?
I believe Miklus is referring to the scaling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouling) left by the dissolved minerals in hard water.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water)

[Don Julio Anejo]

CLR wouldn't work. It's mostly lye, which is, well.. a base. So is chalk. You need a strong acid, like a 3M HCl at the very least.

[Asta Kask]

Try concentrated acetic acid. It's calcium carbonate and all carbonates are vulnerable to acid. CaCO3 + 2HAc = 2CaAc + CO2 + H2O

[shadow_archmagi]

my family runs vinegar through the coffee machine to kill calcium deposits.

[Alteran]

I'd be hesitant to use concentrated acid on a floor that you need to walk on. I would try vinegar first, it should be enough to dissolve the chalk. I've never done this before, but if the chalk deposits are significant I might leave the vinegar to soak for a little while, then try scrubbing with steel wool (or something else, if that would scratch your tiles).

[Miklus]

Yes, It is hard water deposits I'm battling here.

I think Asta Kask is right. I need acid. The stuff I'm using is phosphoric acid. You are supposed to thin it down and apply with a sponge to sit for 3-5 minutes. I poured it on strait from the bottle and left it for hours. It did nothing. I guess it is just too weak. It says it can be used specifically to remove deposists and rust from tiles right on the label. What a rip.

The label is fun to read, though. You have to be at least 18 years old in order to legally use this product and you have to be "carefully instructed in the dangerours properties of this product" and you must take "necessary precausions". Whatever.

I don't think I can get that CLR suff here. I did see some nice 30% HCl acid in the store. Maybe I'll try that.

[Miklus]

my family runs vinegar through the coffee machine to kill calcium deposits.

The vinegar is worth a try, I suppose. I even have half a bottle of that stuff lying around. On it goes!

[Jimorian]

Yes, It is hard water deposits I'm battling here.

I think Asta Kask is right. I need acid. The stuff I'm using is phosphoric acid. You are supposed to thin it down and apply with a sponge to sit for 3-5 minutes. I poured it on strait from the bottle and left it for hours. It did nothing. I guess it is just too weak. It says it can be used specifically to remove deposists and rust from tiles right on the label. What a rip.

Or you could, you know, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! :smalltongue:

[Dr.Epic]

...You have chalk in your water?

How does that even... Huh?

...Maybe wait until it dries and a dustpan and brush? A vacuum cleaner?

Yeah, I thought chalk was water soluble. Not to mention given it's carbon structure, chalk and graphite should be able to be wiped away with ordinary clothe. Is this some sort of special chalk I'm not familiar with.

[Alteran]

Yeah, I thought chalk was water soluble. Not to mention given it's carbon structure, chalk and graphite should be able to be wiped away with ordinary clothe. Is this some sort of special chalk I'm not familiar with.

Chalk (calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate) is not water-soluble. See here (http://intro.chem.okstate.edu/1515SP01/Database/Solub.html).

I'm not sure what you mean by "carbon structure," but calcium carbonate (usually what people mean by "chalk") has a completely different structure from graphite. It has a trigonal crystal structure, whereas graphite has layers of flat, hexagonal grids. In any case, calcium carbonate tends to form pretty hard deposits, so it usually is hard to clean off. I'm not sure how much its crystal structure affects that, but...it is.

[Dr.Epic]

Chalk (calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate) is not water-soluble. See here (http://intro.chem.okstate.edu/1515SP01/Database/Solub.html).

I'm not sure what you mean by "carbon structure," but calcium carbonate (usually what people mean by "chalk") has a completely different structure from graphite. It has a trigonal crystal structure, whereas graphite has layers of flat, hexagonal grids. In any case, calcium carbonate tends to form pretty hard deposits, so it usually is hard to clean off. I'm not sure how much its crystal structure affects that, but...it is.

It still has the same properties as graphite in that it can be smeared or wiped away easily.

[Alteran]

It still has the same properties as graphite in that it can be smeared or wiped away easily.

Oh, I see what you mean. Well, normal blackboard chalk isn't actually calcium carbonate (almost certainly the "chalk" that Miklus has a problem with), it's calcium sulfate. I imagine it also has a very specific water content, so that it'll have the desired properties. I don't know what specific form calcium carbonate takes in most bathroom-type deposits, but it's rather hard and resilient.

[mucat]

Yeah, I thought chalk was water soluble. Not to mention given it's carbon structure, chalk and graphite should be able to be wiped away with ordinary clothe. Is this some sort of special chalk I'm not familiar with.
Don't quibble, Doc. You know that he's talking about hard-water mineral deposits, not blackboard chalk (unless you're posting without reading the thread.)


Miklus, I've also had good luck with vinegar...and if that fails, I usually go straight to concentrated HCl. Standard precautions apply; scorch your lungs out with Chlorine gas, and I never wrote this. :smallwink:

[Brother Oni]

The stuff I'm using is phosphoric acid. You are supposed to thin it down and apply with a sponge to sit for 3-5 minutes. I poured it on strait from the bottle and left it for hours. It did nothing. I guess it is just too weak. It says it can be used specifically to remove deposists and rust from tiles right on the label. What a rip.


Bear in mind that all acid reactions happen in solution, hence why you're supposed to thin it down, so the water can carry the acid into all the gaps in the limescale buildup.

The phosphoric acid I use in the lab (~85%) is a rather viscous solution, so if yours is similar, all it did was sit on top of the scaling rather than penetrate.

If you can't be bothered to use a sponge and want to apply it straight, then mix the solution up with water (acid into water, not the other way round), then pour that on.

I'm still with Jimor though - you should follow the instructions on any chemicals you use.

[Coidzor]

I'm still with Jimor though - you should follow the instructions on any chemicals you use.

+1. When dealing with chemicals, it's time to read the manual or its mustard gas for you.

[Miklus]

Miklus, I've also had good luck with vinegar...and if that fails, I usually go straight to concentrated HCl. Standard precautions apply; scorch your lungs out with Chlorine gas, and I never wrote this. :smallwink:

I tried vinegar, but it did nothing but stink up my bathroom. I put a rag on the floor and soaked it in vinegar as the label on the bottle suggested and left it overnight, but it did no impression on the deposists.

The problems is that the guys who build this house where drunk and the floor does not tilt towards the drain properly. That leaves a small puddle in one corner of the bathroom when ever I shover. That is where the deposits form.

I looked at the 30% HCl in the store but it said "use only outdoors" and "may cause corrosive gas cloud that can damage electronics". So I thought that I might give that a pass.

As for the "chalk"...I don't actually know what I'm dealing with here, it is whatever is left after the water evaporates. It is yellow-brown in appearance and no, I don't have a habit of peeing on the floor.

I'll stick with the conventional means, maybe I can wear it down over a couple of weeks.

[EmeraldRose]

Do you have a water softener in your home? If so, perhaps it is time to add more salt to it?

As far as getting the stuff off when it's on already, I'd go with something like CLR (as already mentioned) or else a bleach solution and some good old elbow grease...

[blackfox]

CLR wouldn't work. It's mostly lye, which is, well.. a base. So is chalk. You need a strong acid, like a 3M HCl at the very least.Augh, you don't need HCl. I don't think you can even acquire 3M HCl outside of being a chemistry professor. Also, if you put HCl on something with calcium deposits, there's no guarantee that it won't eat through whatever the calcium is deposited on. You probably want a somewhat concentrated weak acid. You can either boil off/microwave vinegar until it's more concentrated but not syrupy, or you can buy citric acid from a grocery store. You want it whatever it is to be soaking in the acid.

[Brother Oni]

As for the "chalk"...I don't actually know what I'm dealing with here, it is whatever is left after the water evaporates. It is yellow-brown in appearance and no, I don't have a habit of peeing on the floor.

It's probably calcium carbonate, precipitated mineral salts and skin/biological residue off you. It's most likely the organic material that's causing the colour.

Have you tried some sort of cleaning material like Jif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cif), a wire wool pad and some elbow grease, or is the wire wool too abrasive to use on your floor?

[mucat]

I looked at the 30% HCl in the store but it said "use only outdoors" and "may cause corrosive gas cloud that can damage electronics". So I thought that I might give that a pass.

Just open the windows, don't have a laptop running on the counter while you work, and leave the room for a while after you lay down the acid, and it'll be fine.

You can trust me, I'm a scientist. :smallbiggrin:

Disclaimer: You cannot trust mucat. Scientist or not, he does stupid **** all the time. Take his advice very dubiously...but if you try it, and if you're still alive afterwards and your computer still works, let us know how it went!

[Miklus]

I don't have a water softener. This is a rented apartment and it just does not have that. I read in the paper that is was seriously considered to soften the water at the waterworks so as to achive a general saving for the overall economy. It would be cheaper to do it large scale than to have people buy acids and tablets for washing machines and what not.

Yeah, I tried the steel wool, but I ran out of elbow crease...:smalltongue: