changeing a black dragon (or the entire draco-system)

[super dark33]

first:in many games, black dragons are the most powerfull kind of dragons.
but in DND, thay are one of the weakest.

so i decieded to change im from:sneaky swamp dweller
to:fearsome cave dwealer that breath fire

think you can change it?

(if you want you can offer changes to outer dragons)

[Ashtagon]

One of the dragon types has to be the weakest of the dragons. Comparing one to the others and noting it as being weak is missing the point.

Every single dragon type could easily have the average peasant (or a few dozen lined up) for lunch (sometimes literally).

If you're bothered about black dragons being weaker than other dragons, just remove the "colour coded for your convenience" trope, and make skin colour as relevant to dragon combat ability as it is to human combat ability (ie. not at all).

[DracoDei]

Yeah, sounds like Red Dragon stats with black scales.

[ffanxii4ever]

If you're bothered about black dragons being weaker than other dragons, just remove the "colour coded for your convenience" trope, and make skin colour as relevant to dragon combat ability as it is to human combat ability (ie. not at all).

Do this.
Imagine your players surprise when that elegant, regal gold dragon lands in front of them, and as they have their guard down, proceeds to go *chomp* on the nearby wizard.
He he. I gotta do that now.

[Stompy]

Do this.
Imagine your players surprise when that elegant, regal gold dragon lands in front of them, and as they have their guard down, proceeds to go *chomp* on the nearby wizard.
He he. I gotta do that now.

illusion (disguise self) ftw

[Dragon Elite]

Meh.
Seriously, give them a bonus to Str and Dex/Con, maybe damage bonuses to their breath weapon and you have a more powerful dragon.
Otherwise, one creature must be the weakest of any group.

[Fable Wright]

Weakest: White dragon. They are never reported as strongest. They are amongst the weakest everywhere. Give them the black dragon stats&such. While keeping the ice feel.

[The Anarresti]

I REALLY dislike the color-coded-for-your-convenience thing. I think it'd be cool if each dragon (in the ENTIRE WORLD) was a unique indevidual with their own powers, abilities and personalities. Maybe if we make some sort of do-it-yourself kit for dragons, like with a base skeleton and tiered SLA, breath weapons, and caster abilties so that a DM can create any dragon that needs to be made.
In fact, I will be issuing a challenge to the playground, to that effect.

[Hyooz]

I REALLY dislike the color-coded-for-your-convenience thing. I think it'd be cool if each dragon (in the ENTIRE WORLD) was a unique indevidual with their own powers, abilities and personalities. Maybe if we make some sort of do-it-yourself kit for dragons, like with a base skeleton and tiered SLA, breath weapons, and caster abilties so that a DM can create any dragon that needs to be made.
In fact, I will be issuing a challenge to the playground, to that effect.

This is less a challenge and more typical DM behavior.

I can't remember the last time I used the standard Monster Manual entry for a monster my PCs were supposed to think was cool.

Beyond that... See: Draconomicon.

[Violet Octopus]

Fluff-wise:
Eberron removes the forced alignment of dragons, but I don't know how much stuff in the campaign setting books is generally useful in an "every dragon has unique motives" campaign.
Dragon Magic has a nice section fleshing out campaign worlds where dragons have social/political power. More than Draconomicon does.


I REALLY dislike the color-coded-for-your-convenience thing. I think it'd be cool if each dragon (in the ENTIRE WORLD) was a unique indevidual with their own powers, abilities and personalities. Maybe if we make some sort of do-it-yourself kit for dragons, like with a base skeleton and tiered SLA, breath weapons, and caster abilties so that a DM can create any dragon that needs to be made.
In fact, I will be issuing a challenge to the playground, to that effect.

I very much like this idea. Even if most DMs just tweak the MM entries on the fly, having a basic skeleton and a bunch of powers in one place makes it much easier to be flexible while maintaining balance and verisimilitude.

Unfortunately my 3.5 knowledge is pretty rusty, and I've never run a dragon. But I'd love to pitch in.

How best to handle the differences between dragons? i.e. some being "melee attack + breath weapon" dragons, others being spellcasters, manipulators, or a mix?
* 3 or more monster base classes with different BAB, class features
* 1 dragon class with talents
* Something else

[Mando Knight]

Yeah, sounds like Red Dragon stats with black scales.

I'm looking at my Colossal Red Dragon "mini" right now... and its scales are almost a blood-like blackish-red.

[The Anarresti]

Look what I just did! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161585) This may have relevance.

[DracoDei]

I actually like "color-coded-for-your-convenience".

[Violet Octopus]

I don't mind it either, to be honest, but I would like to see a simpler, more flexible dragon system. There's no reason why such a system conflicts with colour coding either.

[DracoDei]

I don't mind it either, to be honest, but I would like to see a simpler, more flexible dragon system. There's no reason why such a system conflicts with colour coding either.

This is true, and I wasn't objecting to that project here (I did my "objecting" (note quotes) to it in the thread devoted to it specifically).

[Ponderthought]

Ive always found templates to be a good way to modify those old hackneyed color dragons.

Give it the insectoid template, give your players a horrible, chitinous surprise.

[lightningcat]

I actually like "color-coded-for-your-convenience".

I'm on the other side of that fence. It has been one of my pet peeves since 2e. I simply used that as the baseline for draconic alignments, but kept the personalities similar.

Of course now that I'm not using the normal alignment system, I have all sorts of other problems with dragonic alignments.:smallamused: