Does Dragon Mag have more X

[Talbot]

I'm looking for more:

*Skill Tricks
*Martial Initiator Prestige Classes, Feats, or Maneuvers
*Vestiges
*Exalted Feats

Which, if any, Dragon Mags help with some or all of those?

[Dr.Epic]

I'm looking for more:

*Skill Tricks
*Martial Initiator Prestige Classes, Feats, or Maneuvers
*Vestiges
*Exalted Feats

Which, if any, Dragon Mags help with some or all of those?

I've only seen a few dragon magazines from a friend and if it exists in D&D you can be sure Dragon Magazine has expanded on its principles. Sorry I can't be more help and list the specific issues.

[The Glyphstone]

*Skill Tricks: Uncertain.
*Martial Adepts: No. ToB recieved no official support (not even a coherent errata) outside of its own book that I'm aware of.
*Vestiges: Also uncertain, but like ToB, ToM was kinda written and forgotten about, though it did get some online support for bonus vestiges.
*Exalted Feats: This is quite possible actually.
EDIT: {Scrubbed} Purify Summoning is in Dragon #353. That's the only one on the list.

[Calmar]

I'm looking for more:

*Skill Tricks
*Martial Initiator Prestige Classes, Feats, or Maneuvers
*Vestiges
*Exalted Feats

Which, if any, Dragon Mags help with some or all of those?

The vestiges Kas the Bloody Handed, and Primus the One and Prime can be found in Dragon issue 341 from March 2006.

Of course it should be noted that a new Primus rules over Mechanus and the modrons still take care for the plane. This 'vestige' has to be some kind result of the Teneborus incident...

[arguskos]

The vestiges Kas the Bloody Handed, and Primus the One and Prime can be found in Dragon issue 341 from March 2006.

Of course it should be noted that a new Primus rules over Mechanus and the modrons still take care for the plane. This 'vestige' has to be some kind result of the Teneborus incident...
That vestige is a result of the Last Word. :smalltongue:

Also, yeah, that's about it.

[aivanther]

*Skill Tricks: Uncertain.
*Martial Adepts: No. ToB recieved no official support (not even a coherent errata) outside of its own book that I'm aware of.


That's because WotC realized after they published it that they accidentally gave something really good to martial classes. After much wailing and sacking, they hunkered down and tried to figure what to do. And that's the story of how 4e came to be.

I'm not a 4e hater, just being humorous how 3.x hates on the melee so much.

[Oslecamo]

I'm not a 4e hater, just being humorous how 3.x hates on the melee so much.

Magic of incarnum would like a talk with you. Granted it's "magic" but the feats there can be taken by anyone sinergize quite well with melee characters.

Also didn't get updates in dragon magazine. Heck, very few of the noncore systems get support on it.

[The Glyphstone]

And for some reason, Dragon has a reputation of being universally OP and unbalance. It also completely neglects the most balanced alternate rulesets WotC published. Funny how that works.:smallbiggrin:

[Roga]

Ansitif, Astaroth (also known as Diabolus), and Cabiri the Watching Master are all vestiges that appear in Dragon 357.

[true_shinken]

And for some reason, Dragon has a reputation of being universally OP and unbalance. It also completely neglects the most balanced alternate rulesets WotC published. Funny how that works.:smallbiggrin:

That's an undeserved reputation though.
After all, the most broken stuff of all D&D is in Core.

[Oslecamo]

That's an undeserved reputation though.
After all, the most broken stuff of all D&D is in Core.

Artificer (faster "spell" progression on the game), Erudite with Complete psionic (aka infinite power points and actions per turn) and Archivist (learn virtually every spell out there and more class features on top) called.

This is, the erudite alone can beat anything in core with both hands and legs tied to his back. And people say psionics aren't broken!

[DragoonWraith]

Artificer (faster "spell" progression on the game)
Wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is or as any of the Big 3 if it weren't for the spells printed in the PHB, though.


Erudite with Complete psionic (aka infinite power points and actions per turn)
Well, Complete Psionic is crap, but if you're allowing Syncrocity shenanigans, the Wizard can do similar with PHB2.


Archivist (learn virtually every spell out there and more class features on top) called.
Rather hard to learn the non-Cleric spells most of the time, though. You really need NPC (read: DM) support for that. Very easy for a DM to prevent that most of the time.


And those are three classes from three separate books. The Cleric, Druid, and Wizard are all in the same book.

[Oslecamo]

Wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is or as any of the Big 3 if it weren't for the spells printed in the PHB, though.

Doesn't matter what you're allowing. Whatever spells other classes can use, the artificer can use sooner.



Well, Complete Psionic is crap, but if you're allowing Syncrocity shenanigans, the Wizard can do similar with PHB2.

PHB2 is noncore, and even then you've got no simple way of gaining infinite spell slots.



Rather hard to learn the non-Cleric spells most of the time, though. You really need NPC (read: DM) support for that. Very easy for a DM to prevent that most of the time.

A DM can also control the wizard by restricting scroll acess and the divine casters by forcing them to follow their beliefs for once.



And those are three classes from three separate books. The Cleric, Druid, and Wizard are all in the same book.

Druid whitout a MM isn't that bad (no wildshape, no animal companion, no summons). Wizard whitout DMG can't craft stuff wich really cuts down his power. So that only leaves the cleric. Core is three books, not one.:smallwink:

[The Glyphstone]

That's an undeserved reputation though.
After all, the most broken stuff of all D&D is in Core.

I know, I love Dragon Magazine, it's got all sorts of entertaining stuff and fun little feats in it. Its reputation is (for the most part) undeserved, though every so often they slipped in a 'what were they thinking' bit.

[DragoonWraith]

Doesn't matter what you're allowing. Whatever spells other classes can use, the artificer can use sooner.
Core Wizard > Artificer who can't use Core spells, was my point.


PHB2 is noncore, and even then you've got no simple way of gaining infinite spell slots.
You were using Complete Psionic so Player's Handbook II seemed a reasonable analogue.


A DM can also control the wizard by restricting scroll acess and the divine casters by forcing them to follow their beliefs for once.
Except restricting access to clerics with random obscure domains, prestige classes, or the like, is far less egregious than restricting scroll access. For example, the DMG recommends that you not do one of these things, and I guarantee you that it doesn't recommend that every campaign include a Cleric with the Time Domain. As for "forcing divine casters to follow their beliefs for once", that sounds to me like either you're overestimating the degree to which divine casters are typically allowed to run wild, or you're expecting a DM to fiat how a player is to play their character.


Druid whitout a MM isn't that bad (no wildshape, no animal companion, no summons). Wizard whitout DMG can't craft stuff wich really cuts down his power. So that only leaves the cleric. Core is three books, not one.:smallwink:
A Wizard really doesn't rely on crafting much at all, so that's an overstatement, IMO. A Druid without the MM I'll give you, except that's unfair - Core is a set, and has a lot more rules than just the classes. A book that had only Core's races, feats, spells, items, and monsters, as opposed to dozens of rules about what you're supposed to do with them, could be one book. Probably kind of big to include the entire Monster Manual, but even if you restricted the Wildshape thing to a much smaller list (a la the Animal Companions), and only had stats on those creatures, the Druid would be doing rather well, don't you think?


Fine, though - you're right, Core does not have a monopoly on stupid broken crap (you didn't even get into the Cancer Mage, Planar Shepherd, or worse, Illithid Savant and Beholder Mage, which incidentally are in the same book). It simply has by far the highest density of broken crap of any other three books published by WotC, and the PHB has more imbalance within itself than probably any two other books.

I can't really comment on Dragon Magazines, though, since I own exactly zero issues of it.

Actually, that's probably not true, since I signed up for 3 months of D&DI a couple of months ago; none of that's for 3.5 though.

[The Glyphstone]

Fine, though - you're right, Core does not have a monopoly on stupid broken crap (you didn't even get into the Cancer Mage, Planar Shepherd, or worse, Illithid Savant and Beholder Mage, which incidentally are in the same book). It simply has by far the highest density of broken crap of any other three books published by WotC, and the PHB has more imbalance within itself than probably any two other books.


Isn't Illithid Savant in Savage Species? I know Beholder Mage is in Lords of Madness, and I don't remember seeing the Savant reprinted there. Or is BM a reprint from SS?

[DragoonWraith]

Huh, seems you're correct; could have sworn Illithid Savant was also in Lords of Madness.

[The Glyphstone]

I've forgiven Lords of Madness for the Beholder Mage, though, because it also contained the Fleshwarper. Coolest prestige class in the entire game for me.

I like to pretend Magic of Ebberon doesn't exist.

[DragoonWraith]

Magic of Eberron? What's wrong with that one? I rather like the Alchemist Savant, personally, though it's kind of underpowered. Renegade Mastermaker is kinda cool too, though very underpowered IIRC. The Planar Shepherd's in Faiths of Eberron, but that one also has the Escalation Mage which is ridiculously cool, so I wouldn't ditch the book wholesale.

[The Glyphstone]

Because it introduced the rule that you can only attach one type of graft to a creature, which basically took the Fleshwarper out behind the shed and shot it. I can never forgive it for this crime.

(It does say 'only applies to grafts in this book' -but every book after it that included grafts also had that wording.)

[true_shinken]

Because it introduced the rule that you can only attach one type of graft to a creature, which basically took the Fleshwarper out behind the shed and shot it. I can never forgive it for this crime.

(It does say 'only applies to grafts in this book' -but every book after it that included grafts also had that wording.)
Uuuuh... Fleshwarper has in-built ability that bypasses that, actually.

[Urpriest]

Uuuuh... Fleshwarper has in-built ability that bypasses that, actually.

My understanding was that was an ability to craft different types, not to use them...I'll check again though.

[Willfor]

If Dragon Mag had more 'X' it would either be dead, or we wouldn't be able to tell you. For instance, if it had "XX" it would look like it was a "X_X" smiley without the mouth, and it would be dead. If it had "XXX" it would be against forum rules to post about it here.

It's fine enough with just a single X. Please don't try to make it have more X than it already has.

[true_shinken]

My understanding was that was an ability to craft different types, not to use them...I'll check again though.

Hm, well, I could be wrong. The illustrutation does seem to indicate otherwise, though.

[The Glyphstone]

If Dragon Mag had more 'X' it would either be dead, or we wouldn't be able to tell you. For instance, if it had "XX" it would look like it was a "X_X" smiley without the mouth, and it would be dead. If it had "XXX" it would be against forum rules to post about it here.

It's fine enough with just a single X. Please don't try to make it have more X than it already has.

+1 internets to you, sir. And some popcorn.


That's because Fleshwarper was printed before MoE, I believe.

*goes to check publishing dates*

EDIT: LoM was in April 2005, MoE in October 2005.

[Andion Isurand]

Dragon Magazine #326 has some Anarchic feats to distract those into Exalted and Vile feats.

[Zombieboots]

*Skill Tricks
*Martial Initiator Prestige Classes, Feats, or Maneuvers
*Vestiges
*Exalted Feats


Skill Tricks: Dragon #357

Martial Initiator: Not that I am aware of.

Exalted Feats: Not that I am aware of (Thank god).
Though you might try making the Opposite of Vile feats as an Idea.

Vestiges: Why... Yess...
- Dragon Magic (Ashardolon), p85
- Dragon #341 (Kas, Primus)
- Dragon #357 (Ansitif, Astaroth [Diabolus], Cabiri)
- Dungeon #148 (Ahazu)
- Dungeon #143 (Tooth of Ahazu), p58
- Design and Development article (Vanus)
- Mind’s Eye article (Abysm, Arete, The Triad)
- Cityscape Web Enhancement (Astaroth [Unjustly], Deshartis)
- Class Chronicles: Binders (Zceryll)
- Dragon #363 (Online Magazine), (Amun-her Khepeshef, Gaia, Tkhaluuljin, Zuriel)
- Unofficial Source: Paizo’s Message boards The Green Lady, and The Apostle of The Green Lady) By James Jacob.
- My almost enough to fill up a whole PDF ...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

A note on the grafts, Glyphstone: Only those printed in magic of Eberron and later follow the "one type" rule while all others before then are mix-and-match-able.

[The Glyphstone]

A note on the grafts, Glyphstone: Only those printed in magic of Eberron and later follow the "one type" rule while all others before then are mix-and-match-able.

Yeah, I did mention that. But the coolest ones (and the ones that are actually affordable for non-Evil characters) are all in said later book.