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gallagher
2010-07-24, 07:27 PM
so in cityscape there is the scouts ACF called Riposte, which gives you extra damage against someone who has attacked you, which replaces skirmish. i do not currently have the book, but i was wondering if this eliminates the requirement of having to move 10 feet? i would think it does, but since i cant check it myself, i have to be sure. also, does he have to hit you, or can the enemy just try and attack and you automatically get the bonus?

and if it does work without having to move 10 feet, would that make the swift hunter build that much better if one could swing it with the DM? one still is stacking ranger and scout levels, so it isnt that farfetch'd.

this would make a non-archery ranger more effective, i think, and one wouldnt need to have pounce because you are gaining the benefit of attacking someone who is right in front of you. with the proper defenses (especially miss chance) one becomes a pretty decent damage dealer without having to charge every round. Robilards gambit also would be helpful in this build

what do you guys think?

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 07:32 PM
Riposte

While most scouts rely on mobility to overcome their opponents, some focus instead on taking advantage of the openings their foes provide in combat when making their own attacks.

Class: Scout.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain skirmish or any later improvements to that class feature.

Ability: Any time the scout attacks a foe that has made a melee or ranged weapon attack against her within the past round (whether or not the attack hit you), her attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four levels gained above 1st (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 9th, 4d6 at 13th, and 5d6 at 17th).

This extra damage applies only against living creatures that have a discernable anatomy. Undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are not vulnerable to this additional damage. The scout must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. She can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks, but only if the target is within 30 feet.

At 3rd level, the scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class against any creature to which she has dealt riposte damage, as described above. This bonus lasts until the start of her next turn. If she deals riposte damage to more than one creature in a round, she gains this bonus against all of them; it is not limited to a single foe. This bonus improves by 1 for every four levels gained above 3rd (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 19th level).

The scout loses this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
You don't have to move, and they only have to attack you.

I'd allow it as a DM, and as a player I'd mix it with the Champion of the Wild ACF to grab some feats instead of spellcasting I'll never use. Also, bump Cha and take Goad so you can draw fire, or take a four-level knight dip to pick up Test of Mettle. Combat Expertise + Deadly Defense (CScn) helps too.

Warclam
2010-07-24, 07:35 PM
Strictly, the feat wouldn't work for Riposte, but there's no reason not to houserule it. I also second Fax on the ideas for drawing fire, though regrettably I can't think of any more to contribute.

gallagher
2010-07-24, 07:44 PM
You don't have to move, and they only have to attack you.

I'd allow it as a DM, and as a player I'd mix it with the Champion of the Wild ACF to grab some feats instead of spellcasting I'll never use. Also, bump Cha and take Goad so you can draw fire, or take a four-level knight dip to pick up Test of Mettle. Combat Expertise + Deadly Defense (CScn) helps too.
i might do the champion of the wild ACF, i wouldnt need to use a wand of CLW or anything if i have enough potions, an item, or a cleric handy that would do the same. i would be able to pick up assassins stance easier

this build is actually making me salivate over forcing people to attack me and then increasing the damage. a ripper or greatsword plus strongarm bracers make this all the better. i dont really want to use the TWF tree, what other options are there? if i dont have to use light weapons i wont be able to use deadly defense, but that isnt so bad

gallagher
2010-07-24, 07:46 PM
Strictly, the feat wouldn't work for Riposte, but there's no reason not to houserule it. I also second Fax on the ideas for drawing fire, though regrettably I can't think of any more to contribute.
yeah i know, thats why i said "if one could swing it with the DM?"

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 07:49 PM
this build is actually making me salivate over forcing people to attack me and then increasing the damage. a ripper or greatsword plus strongarm bracers make this all the better. i dont really want to use the TWF tree, what other options are there? if i dont have to use light weapons i wont be able to use deadly defense, but that isnt so bad

Harpoons work well because of their exit-wounds clause, as do flindbars because of their disarming property.

gallagher
2010-07-24, 07:53 PM
wouldnt one need to throw the harpoon? i dont know which book harpoons are in, but i am pretty sure i dont have it.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 07:55 PM
wouldnt one need to throw the harpoon? i dont know which book harpoons are in, but i am pretty sure i dont have it.

They're in Stormwrack. And no, they count from stabbing too.

Coidzor
2010-07-24, 08:32 PM
^: So harpoons don't take a penalty from being used as melee weapons? I thought they were one of those ranged weapons which had a penalty when used in melee. x.x

Robilar's Gambit(I think them having just attacked you counts for Riposte),[just saw it in the OP, whoops] Snap-Kick*, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1** +Extend Rage+Extra Rage.

You'll either want to be TWF or THF + Dancing Shield and some kind of miss-chance in addition to a solid AC.

Can skirmish apply to rays? Sneak attack can, if I'm remembering correctly. Either Sword of the Arcane Order or UMDing could add that as a go-to backup ranged weapon, to use as reprisal against ranged or arcanist or dragon breath peeps by hitting them with a spell and d6s.

If only there was some way to get an Improved Skirmish analogue.:smallfrown:

*if you can afford something to get decent Unarmed Strike, is an extra attack, which if you dip monk you might be able to grab the chaos monk variety from Dragon which would allow for synergy with possible barbarian dipping for pouncing charges to open things up with. Also, the possibility of flurrying & TWFing with a two-hander on a charge. @_@

**(gives an extra attack on a full attack and bonuses to AC and reflex)

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 08:45 PM
Oh, yeah, get miss chance somehow (Cloak Dance)? And then maybe a swordsage/warblade dip or Martial Stance for Pearl of Black Doubt?

Coidzor
2010-07-24, 08:47 PM
Oh, yeah, get miss chance somehow (Cloak Dance)? And then maybe a swordsage/warblade dip or Martial Stance for Pearl of Black Doubt?

What's Pearl of Black Doubt do? That like the upgrade to Assassin's Stance?

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 08:49 PM
No, it's "whenever someone misses you, you gain a +2 dodge bonus against their attacks until the end of their next turn".

Miss chance makes this lols.

Alternatively, you could use Iron Guard's Glare to make you a more attractive target to attack, if you're not going to use Goad, etc.

gallagher
2010-07-24, 11:28 PM
so how about on a 36 point buy, 16/14/12/10/16/10 Human Swordsage 2/Scout (Riposte ACF) 3/Champion of the Wild Ranger 12/Warblade 3? and if i go harpoon which fighting style should i pick? i only know of TWF and archery.

i can get combat expertise and deadly defense, power attack, swift hunter, and goad easily. i can use pearl of black doubt and assassins stance, i can also get distracting ember for more help.

get a ring of blink or a cloak of displacement.

what else could this build use?

Coidzor
2010-07-24, 11:51 PM
There's the strong-arm fighting style which gives Power Attack(:smallbiggrin:) and I think Improved Sunder(:smallyuk:) and something else, maybe Great Cleave.

From Dragon Magazine, issue 236, IIRC.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2426.0

Anyhoo, you're probably better off presenting a custom one to your DM if you're wanting to use a harpoon. Because, honestly, Improved Sunder? Why would you want that except as a pre-req?

Managed to avoid having an even total of ranger and scout levels, that's good.

gallagher
2010-07-25, 12:08 AM
should totally take the mounted combat version and use the harpoon for the bonuses to that

gallagher
2010-07-25, 01:03 AM
are there any ACFs that allow me to switch out my animal companion for anything useful, or will i be able to have a companion thats a serviceable mount

Fax Celestis
2010-07-25, 01:32 AM
are there any ACFs that allow me to switch out my animal companion for anything useful, or will i be able to have a companion thats a serviceable mount

PHB-II drops a ranger's animal companion for Distracting Attack: anyone you hit is automatically considered flanked by you for your allies until your next turn. Your party rogue will loooooove you.

Eldariel
2010-07-25, 04:18 PM
PHB-II drops a ranger's animal companion for Distracting Attack: anyone you hit is automatically considered flanked by you for your allies until your next turn. Your party rogue will loooooove you.

There's also Solitary Hunter in DR347 that gets you your FE bonus as To Hit bonus also in exchange for AC. I prefer that one when allowed.

Coidzor
2010-07-25, 04:30 PM
Say, is there any way to get one's TWF to work with AoOs?

Eldariel
2010-07-25, 06:17 PM
Say, is there any way to get one's TWF to work with AoOs?

Double Hit, Min Handbook. Or sensible houserules so it's not gimped compared to THF in all instances. Pick one.