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true_shinken
2010-07-24, 07:45 PM
So, I'm making a xeph shugenja for my quirky mini-boss squad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161508) - I want him to fight with dual flame blades.
Shugenjas get low base attack bonus, though - so I wanted to PrC out of it into something else ASAP.
Character level is 12 and I'll give him Craft Contingent Spell as his 12th level feat (since I already used a contingencied heal on his partners on the last session). I want to take Xeph Celerity at some point, also.
Any suggestions of what PrC I could take and get better base attack bonus? I can lose a single level of casting, no more or I can't qualify for Craft Contingent Spell.

Optimystik
2010-07-24, 10:08 PM
What alignment? Sacred Exorcist would give him an extra point of BAB and turn undead without losing any caster levels. With his high Cha, he can then grab DMM for some fighting power/buffs. They have to be Good though.

Amphetryon
2010-07-24, 10:20 PM
There's a handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870718/Shugenja_Handbook?post_id=338368418#338368418). :smallsmile:

true_shinken
2010-07-24, 10:22 PM
There's a handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870718/Shugenja_Handbook?post_id=338368418#338368418). :smallsmile:

Yeah, I read it. Not directed toward gishing, though.
Also, the bad japanese kinda of irked me, so...


What alignment? Sacred Exorcist would give him an extra point of BAB and turn undead without losing any caster levels. With his high Cha, he can then grab DMM for some fighting power/buffs. They have to be Good though.
Yeah, unfortunatelly he's evil :smallannoyed:
Thanks for suggesting that, though! :smallsmile:

CyMage
2010-07-24, 11:06 PM
There is also the somewhat incomplete Gish Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786.0).

Lists Ordained Champion and Ruby Knight Vindicator for Divine PrCs.

true_shinken
2010-07-24, 11:12 PM
Lists Ordained Champion and Ruby Knight Vindicator for Divine PrCs.

Both depend on turn undead, which shugenja lacks.
Ordained Champion is even Wisdom-focused, though I like the concept.
I think there is a full base attack/full casting divine PrC in Faiths and Pantheons, but I just don't know where the hell I put that book...

dextercorvia
2010-07-24, 11:25 PM
Spellwarp Sniper has 3/4(5) BAB and full advancement of casting. I'm not familiar with the Shugenja spell list enough to know if it offers further benefit to your character. Uncanny Trickster is 2/3 BAB and class features which would include casting.

PId6
2010-07-24, 11:34 PM
Just take Sacred Exorcist. You're DM; you can say "screw you alignment restriction" if you want to (they're stupid anyway). Proceed to Persist Divine Power (through Extra Spell) and go to town.

CyMage
2010-07-25, 12:14 AM
Just take Sacred Exorcist. You're DM; you can say "screw you alignment restriction" if you want to

Quoted for truth.

true_shinken
2010-07-25, 10:33 AM
Just take Sacred Exorcist. You're DM; you can say "screw you alignment restriction" if you want to (they're stupid anyway). Proceed to Persist Divine Power (through Extra Spell) and go to town.

Well, Extra Spell is restricted to the class list.
And I actually like and use alignment restrictions, so that's not gonna fly.



Spellwarp Sniper has 3/4(5) BAB and full advancement of casting. I'm not familiar with the Shugenja spell list enough to know if it offers further benefit to your character. Uncanny Trickster is 2/3 BAB and class features which would include casting.
Wow, Spellwarp Sniper works on divine spells? That's awesome.
Oh, wait. I can't qualify. It needs 1d6 sneak attack, and I can't dip because of xeph's favored class issues.
Uncanny Trickster does slightly increase his base attack bonus, though. Thanks ^^

Also... that gish handbook rates Eldritch Knight higher than JADE PHOENIX MAGE. WTF!?!?!

Optimystik
2010-07-25, 10:39 AM
Dip Cloistered Cleric then. You'll lose a CL, but gain 3 domains and rebuke undead, which (with your high Charisma) will give you plenty of turn attempts to DMM with. Then you can apply the DMM to your shugenja spells.

Amphetryon
2010-07-25, 10:42 AM
Also... that gish handbook rates Eldritch Knight higher than JADE PHOENIX MAGE. WTF!?!?!I'd wager someone was rating based on 'thou shalt not lose caster levels,' coupled with some DM's resistance to allowing ToB in a campaign.

Sliver
2010-07-25, 10:43 AM
and I can't dip because of xeph's favored class issues.

Wait... Isn't it for an NPC? Are you doing encounters and level it up as a PC? Favored class doesn't matter otherwise, as they don't get xp as PCs, so reduced xp rates don't matter.

true_shinken
2010-07-25, 11:16 AM
Wait... Isn't it for an NPC? Are you doing encounters and level it up as a PC? Favored class doesn't matter otherwise, as they don't get xp as PCs, so reduced xp rates don't matter.
Hmm, you are absolutely right, sir! Spellwarp Sniper it is then. Thanks a lot!
EDIT: Damn. Only with sneak attack fighter do I get better bab than Shugenja 12 - Shugenja 6/Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Spellwarp Sniper 5 has base attack +7.


I'd wager someone was rating based on 'thou shalt not lose caster levels,' coupled with some DM's resistance to allowing ToB in a campaign.
but Eldritch Knight also loses a caster level and has no class features whatsoever! And lower hit dice! And... and... it eats kittens for breakfast! Yes it does!

I'll just go with straight Shugenja, to hell with it >.>
Hell, the shugenja schools are too much trouble. I'll go with Spirit Shaman. Oh, darn it, they don't get heal.
...
...
Is there a cleric domain that gets flame blade?

Draz74
2010-07-25, 11:25 AM
Wow, Spellwarp Sniper works on divine spells? That's awesome.
Oh, wait. I can't qualify. It needs 1d6 sneak attack, and I can't dip because of xeph's favored class issues.

So ... Martial Stance (assassin's stance)?

Sliver
2010-07-25, 11:30 AM
Is there a cleric domain that gets flame blade?

Fires of Purity (SpC) wraps the entire creature in flames... It's in a cleric domain too.

true_shinken
2010-07-25, 11:37 AM
So ... Martial Stance (assassin's stance)?
Only available at level 10 :/


Fires of Purity (SpC) wraps the entire creature in flames... It's in a cleric domain too.
Hm, looks cool, but that's not what I'm looking for. Thanks, though.

TooManyBadgers
2010-07-25, 02:35 PM
Hexer is in Masters of the Wild. It is exactly what you're looking for.