[4E] Is magic circle as broken as I think it is?

[SirLagsalot]

Looking at the magic circle ritual (pg309 phb) I see no mention of how to turn the thing off other than by the following 2 options:

Unaffcted creature takes a standard action to obscure the inscription.
A higher level affected creature can force his way through and take damage.


The level of creature blocked by the circle is the check result -10.
If you want to block all creature types, rather than just one, the check is at -5.

So, if you're a high level character and manage a check of 45+, you can create a circle that no PC, yourself included, can break, ever. A little higher, and no published monster can break it, either. An arcana check could theoretically be as high as +33 (+5 trained, +3 focus, +15 levels, +10 INT), higher if there are items or situational bonuses involved, so such results could certainly be possible.

What about teleporting? It doesn't require line of effect to the destination, so are you 'passing through the circle'? The normal understanding of teleportation would have you not crossing the boundary - instead of being 'here' you are now 'there'.

I just think it's a little silly that someone could create a circle around themselves so powerful they could never escape from it.

[NecroRebel]

It's a superbly powerful defensive ritual, yes, but rather situational. First off, it takes 31 minutes to cast, minimum (1 minute to inscribe a circle around 1 square, and 30 to cast the ritual from a scroll), so is essentially impossible to use if time is anything like an issue. Second, it must be a circle, so it'll be difficult to cover most rooms with it. Also, as you seem to have realized, making an "all" circle is a horrifically bad idea since the caster is quite likely to be unable to pass through it.

That said, it's probably more broken than you think it is. Remember, you're assumed to have a party of 5, so that means your primary arcanist gets 4 Aid Anothers done on them! You're also neglecting the possibility of a racial +2 to Arcana, say from your primary arcanist being an Eladrin. You might well have a bonus to your Arcana check for the ritual of +43 at level 30, which means that you need a 2 or higher to block in any single creature type, including most deities and primordials, with a 7 or better to trap anything and everything!

That said, teleportation probably foils it. Also, it doesn't specify whether or not creatures can pass under it, so something that can burrow might be able to bypass it as well. Further, it doesn't say how high up the protection reaches, which with natural fliers is something of an issue.

Still, it is, as mentioned, a superb defensive spell. With 4 people Aiding an Int-focused Ritual Caster with Arcane trained, your check starts at >=+12 (+3 Int minimum, +5 training, with average of 2 Aid Another checks succeeding if no one else is an arcanist or Int-focused for another +4) at level 1, and goes up by more than 1 every 2 levels. On extended forays into a hostile area where you've got a fixed base of operations you can return to every night and can expect only a single origin for your enemies, and scribing a Circle around your base camp can be a very, very good idea. After all, if the enemy can't walk through the Circle, they can't very well ambush you while you're sleeping, can they? :smallsmile:

[Kurald Galain]

Basically what Necro said - it's very powerful but you'll rarely be in a situation where it actually helps.

Of course, when drawing a circle against everything, make sure you're on the outside when the ritual completes. I believe it is an oversight that this spell doesn't have the common "escape clause" that the caster and a handful of other designated creatures are immune.

As written, the circle does not block teleportation. Notably, it also doesn't block ranged attacks into the circle, which lessens its defensive possibilities. Funnily enough, the spell doesn't specify a maximum size either, so you can theoretically make one several miles wide.

[Lamech]

Yeah, if your being invaded by demons you can just circle a stronghold, or your parties camp or whatever. This is one of the rituals I look at as good and useful. Also if your all Eladrin you can leave unbreakable circles everywhere and just teleport out when needed.

[Mando Knight]

If you're making unbreakable circles, the deities will find out about it. Then you're stuck inside your circle.

[Evard]

Does the ritual say you can make the circle as big as you want.... I could see someone doing this to town or castle :3

[Swordgleam]

Notably, it also doesn't block ranged attacks into the circle, which lessens its defensive possibilities.

Wouldn't the line "An affected creature whose level is lower than your
Arcana check result minus 10 cannot ... affect creatures through the circle’s boundary" apply to any kind of attack, including ranged?

Too bad Magic Circle isn't one of the ones where you can designate a passphrase to let people in or out. Then you wouldn't have to worry about trapping yourself.

[SirLagsalot]

I'm totally sticking that in the next session, a magic circle with a long dead wizard inside with "don't paint yourself into a corner" etched into the ground.

[Evard]

Make sure there is something in there with him that the party really really really wants :D just to be a jerk hahaha

best weapon armor or items made for each class :P

[Kurald Galain]

Wouldn't the line "An affected creature whose level is lower than your Arcana check result minus 10 cannot ... affect creatures through the circle’s boundary" apply to any kind of attack, including ranged?
That's a good point, but this wording is subject to all kinds of loopholes, such as summoning a monster into the area, or setting the area on fire.

What I'm thinking of here is the film Sleepy Hollow, where at one point all the villagers hide out in a church which is warded against evil. Indeed, the Headless Horseman is unable to enter, but he instead creates a makeshift spear and uses that to drag his victim out of the church, at which point the victim is no longer protected...

At any rate, loopholes in magic circles are a common enough trope that it wouldn't surprise me if a DM chose that interpretation over one giving absolute and eternal immunity.

[Swordgleam]

That's a good point, but this wording is subject to all kinds of loopholes, such as summoning a monster into the area, or setting the area on fire.

Oh sure, and "I'm setting your protected area on fire" is always a great one. I just mean if you've got a power that reads "Ranged 5" or whatever, it's a no go, not that the circle is impenetrable.

Now I have a great idea. An evil high-level wizard who takes hostages - and leaves them in plain sight, in the middle of the town in magic circles that no one else is strong enough to break. Their friends and relatives can throw them food and stuff, but are helpless to rescue them until they pay the ransom and the wizard breaks the circle.

Plus, it doesn't say an unaffected creature breaks the circle by attacking through it, just by passing through it. So if people aren't cooperating, he can chuck a magic missile at one of the hostages and continue on his merry way. Wonder if the rest of the hostages can get the corpse out, or if they're stuck in there with it?

[tcrudisi]

Now I have a great idea. An evil high-level wizard who takes hostages - and leaves them in plain sight, in the middle of the town in magic circles that no one else is strong enough to break. Their friends and relatives can throw them food and stuff, but are helpless to rescue them until they pay the ransom and the wizard breaks the circle.

May I use this?

[Evard]

Oh sure, and "I'm setting your protected area on fire" is always a great one. I just mean if you've got a power that reads "Ranged 5" or whatever, it's a no go, not that the circle is impenetrable.

Now I have a great idea. An evil high-level wizard who takes hostages - and leaves them in plain sight, in the middle of the town in magic circles that no one else is strong enough to break. Their friends and relatives can throw them food and stuff, but are helpless to rescue them until they pay the ransom and the wizard breaks the circle.

Plus, it doesn't say an unaffected creature breaks the circle by attacking through it, just by passing through it. So if people aren't cooperating, he can chuck a magic missile at one of the hostages and continue on his merry way. Wonder if the rest of the hostages can get the corpse out, or if they're stuck in there with it?

would the horrible smell count as an attack? and if so will it be allowed to go out of the circle? hmm

[Swordgleam]

May I use this?

Go for it! I'm not running a game right now, so if you don't use it, it will languish sadly and fade away.

[devinkowalczyk]

I'm totally sticking that in the next session, a magic circle with a long dead wizard inside with "don't paint yourself into a corner" etched into the ground.

I love this idea.

As a wizard I tried to make a circle on the abyss to block us from being attacked by demons. But we were attacked before it could be completed.


If there was a mass battle, say over several dozen miles, what is the best way to use a magic circle(s) to best effect? Demons only.

[Coidzor]

Now I have a great idea. An evil high-level wizard who takes hostages - and leaves them in plain sight, in the middle of the town in magic circles that no one else is strong enough to break. Their friends and relatives can throw them food and stuff, but are helpless to rescue them until they pay the ransom and the wizard breaks the circle.

Or a particularly harsh Lawful Good one using it as his form of incarceration and execution instead of leaving them swinging from the gallows. (Sort of reminded of the jars from Beetleburg at the beginning of Girl Genius)

Depending entirely upon the mercy of others whom they had previously wronged by their actions in general has a certain twist to it, especially as a humbling exercise to see if they can be given a second chance.


If there was a mass battle, say over several dozen miles, what is the best way to use a magic circle(s) to best effect? Demons only.

Hmm. Use it beforehand to set up chokepoints/bottlenecks for fall-back and ambush or feint maneuvers.

Use it to prevent or delay them from falling back to a stronghold if you're able to sneak around them to block it off.

[Swordgleam]

You know what else would be fun? Let's say you're invading a country that uses teleportation circles as a major means of transportation. Just put a magic circle around one!

[DragonBaneDM]

You know what else would be fun? Let's say you're invading a country that uses teleportation circles as a major means of transportation. Just put a magic circle around one!

So that you'd end up with their citizens and armies trapped inside? Like blocking off the exit of a ghetto grocery store.

People can get in, but can't get out?

[Kurald Galain]

If there was a mass battle, say over several dozen miles, what is the best way to use a magic circle(s) to best effect? Demons only.

The best effect would be to quietly walk around the battle and put it in a circle, entirely. Of course, this will cost a lot of time.

[tcrudisi]

The best effect would be to quietly walk around the battle and put it in a circle, entirely. Of course, this will cost a lot of time.

Nah, just the 1 hour "casting" time. :smallamused: I jest, of course.

Great, now I see it: Players trying to argue that they are drawing the circle around the world... half-way through it they'll disrupt their own casting. In 30 minutes time they've circled the globe!

[Shatteredtower]

So is the one minute inscription time per square encircled in addition to the one hour casting time? I think it would have to be.

It's a good thing you don't have to inscribe each square in the circle or there'd be a lot more places you couldn't ward.

Based on the wording of Forbiddance (which specifically prevents teleportation), Linked Portal (described as blocked by sufficiently powerful warding magic and giving the much higher level Forbiddance, but not the lower level Magic Circle, as an example), as well as the description provided for teleportation (PHB, pg 286), Magic Circle should have no effect on teleportation.

I'll explain that last one. Teleportation is not hindered by objects in your way, save where line of sight is required. The inscribed circle is an object, readily observable by the ease with which any unaffected creature can break it. Teleportation can't break the circle, but it will ignore it.

Natural phenomena such as earthquakes or erosion could also break the circle.

[Swordgleam]

Natural phenomena such as earthquakes or erosion could also break the circle.

But imagine if they didn't! An ancient culture, and all that's left of it is crumbled ruins.. and the perfectly preserved artifacts within its unbreakable magic circles. Of course, those artifacts could just easily be demonic as helpful, but that's why you hire adventurers to go find out.

[Shatteredtower]

But imagine if they didn't!

Well, that's when the party needs to find ways to redirect rivers or undermine the circle's location.

Another thing to consider: the ritual can be used to keep ordinary insects out, including ones needed to pollinate plants inside the circle. In the wrong hands, it could be used to fish out a river during spawning time. There are a lot of ways to get on someone's bad side with tricks such as this.