Critique my 3.5 Core Druid? Also, customize animal companions?

[fracas]

I'm playing a Core-only (no SRD) 3.5 Druid, currently at 4th level. I've read the Druid handbook and this is somewhat based on it, with significant variations (choice of animal companion being a big one).

If it matters, the party is two druids (mine and a really gimpy one played by a newbie, details below), two barbarians (one played by a newbie), a TWF rogue, and a wizard.

I tried the eTools character builder (DM's request) and ended up with a "random" ability score roll of 18,14,14,14,14,14. So of course the 18 is Wis.

Race: Human
Feats: (H) Spell Focus: Conjuration, (1) Augment Summoning, (3) Extend Spell

Animal Companion: Ape. Changed feats to Multiattack and Large and In Charge. I don't know why the Ape isn't recommended in the Druid handbook - reach + Large and In Charge is golden (got special permission to take it despite being a non-core feat, but doubt I'd get permission for more).

Primary skills: Concentration/Diplomacy/Handle Animal/Spellcraft +9, Heal/Listen/Spot +5 (untrained), Ride +11, Survival +14

Gear: +1 Dragonhide Breastplate, Darkwood Shield, +1 Bracers of Armor, club, Periapt of Wis +2, slingshot. 1/ea scrolls of Faerie Fire, Charm Animal, Speak with Animals.

Spells memorized:
0
Create Water x1
Detect Magic x2
Light x2
1
Entangle x3
Cure Light Wounds x2 (We have no cleric but two druids so healing is basically the other druid with a Cure Light wand and me augmenting with a couple spells... resources for another wand are limited but we'll get another one when we get a chance.)
2
3x Bull Strength for the two barbs and my ape.

I end up spontaneously converting about half my spells to summons anyway.

Thoughts? The game is mostly survival in an area overrun with undead.

Also, a question: Is it legal to customize my animal companion or do I have to use the Monster Manual stats? I'd love to be able to build it from scratch in eTools... With a +10 Str bonus I could get it to 28 Str with plenty left over to boost Dex and Con.

...In response to potential criticism for powergaming: Yes, I know the ape is already pretty potent and could probably crush the party barbarian 1v1, but we're routinely dealing with several CR+2 encounters between rests and I usually end up going through the last combat or two completely drained of spells and with half the party barely alive... and two of our players are newbies, one with a decent barb and the other with a really gimpy druid (dire rat animal companion, likes to wade into combat using TWF with a shillelagh'd quarterstaff *cringe*) so I feel pretty justified in a little powergaming. And in any case I do a lot of party support with Entangle and healing and using the ape to protect wounded party members so it's not like I'm overshadowing other players.

And finally, a laugh from the last session: I got a cloaker on my head, got wrapped up and couldn't do damage, party kept rolling low and missing, and we were in a hurry (no ape to save the day since he couldn't fit in the cave). So I decided to do a head-first charge at the cave wall. Natural 20. Dead cloaker. 5 pts of damage to me and somehow no neck injury. Good times.

[Eldariel]

I'm playing a Core-only (no SRD) 3.5 Druid, currently at 4th level. I've read the Druid handbook and this is somewhat based on it, with significant variations (choice of animal companion being a big one).

If it matters, the party is two druids (mine and a really gimpy one played by a newbie, details below), two barbarians (one played by a newbie), a TWF rogue, and a wizard.

I tried the eTools character builder (DM's request) and ended up with a "random" ability score roll of 18,14,14,14,14,14. So of course the 18 is Wis.

Race: Human
Feats: (H) Spell Focus: Conjuration, (1) Augment Summoning, (3) Extend Spell

All good so far. Consider Crafting-feats, otherwise there's nothing to do here (unless you want combat feats; you qualify for Expertise and IUS so you can go for Imp Trip or Imp Grapple, depending on your future animal forms).


Animal Companion: Ape. Changed feats to Multiattack and Large and In Charge. I don't know why the Ape isn't recommended in the Druid handbook - reach + Large and In Charge is golden (got special permission to take it despite being a non-core feat, but doubt I'd get permission for more).

Low HD. It has lower attack bonuses & HP than the alternatives, for that very reason. That's mostly it, and plagues the Apes throughout your progression. It's still good. Get it Barding.


Primary skills: Concentration/Diplomacy/Handle Animal/Spellcraft +9, Heal/Listen/Spot +5 (untrained), Ride +11, Survival +14

Consider training either Listen or Spot. You'll be the best character at it in your party, by far, with maxed Spot or Listen. So, no point throwing such awesome senses away. You could cut Survival a bit; it's a great skill but non-Tracking functions tend to be doable with Take 10 + your immense Wisdom, so you don't really need any.

Frankly, I usually leave it untrained. K: Nature should also receive at least some points. What kind of a Druid doesn't know the Nature?! Also, some DMs may require Knowledge-checks for your Summons, Wildshape, ACs and what-not, so that too. I always max out the appropriate Knowledges maself, especially if I'm not playing an Int-focused class (one of the reasons I frankly love Int-based classes; Knowledges are immensely useful in 3.5).


Gear: +1 Dragonhide Breastplate, Darkwood Shield, +1 Bracers of Armor, club, Periapt of Wis +2, slingshot. 1/ea scrolls of Faerie Fire, Charm Animal, Speak with Animals.

Pack a Quarterstaff. Comfy for walking, stylish, you know Shillelagh, you have decent Strength and it's two-handable. If you BS yourself and Shillelagh it, it suddenly becomes quite formidable. Also allows you to appear harmless while being armed and ready, unlike sword+shield. Consider saving for Monk's Belt in the future.


Spells memorized:
0
Create Water x1
Detect Magic x2
Light x2
1
Entangle x3
Cure Light Wounds x2 (We have no cleric but two druids so healing is basically the other druid with a Cure Light wand and me augmenting with a couple spells... resources for another wand are limited but we'll get another one when we get a chance.)
2
3x Bull Strength for the two barbs and my ape.

I end up spontaneously converting about half my spells to summons anyway.

Consider Transmute Rock to Mud and some of the Fog-spells at one level 2 slot. Also, single Produce Flame might not be amiss, though that's up to you.


Thoughts? The game is mostly survival in an area overrun with undead.

Also, a question: Is it legal to customize my animal companion or do I have to use the Monster Manual stats? I'd love to be able to build it from scratch in eTools... With a +10 Str bonus I could get it to 28 Str with plenty left over to boost Dex and Con.

Not by RAW, but you have a DM for that.


...In response to potential criticism for powergaming: Yes, I know the ape is already pretty potent and could probably crush the party barbarian 1v1, but we're routinely dealing with several CR+2 encounters between rests and I usually end up going through the last combat or two completely drained of spells and with half the party barely alive... and two of our players are newbies, one with a decent barb and the other with a really gimpy druid (dire rat animal companion, likes to wade into combat using TWF with a shillelagh'd quarterstaff *cringe*) so I feel pretty justified in a little powergaming. And in any case I do a lot of party support with Entangle and healing and using the ape to protect wounded party members so it's not like I'm overshadowing other players.

And finally, a laugh from the last session: I got a cloaker on my head, got wrapped up and couldn't do damage, party kept rolling low and missing, and we were in a hurry (no ape to save the day since he couldn't fit in the cave). So I decided to do a head-first charge at the cave wall. Natural 20. Dead cloaker. 5 pts of damage to me and somehow no neck injury. Good times.

Have fun. Your business, every party needs a carrier anyways.

[Runeclaw]

Gear: +1 Dragonhide Breastplate, Darkwood Shield, +1 Bracers of Armor, club, Periapt of Wis +2, slingshot. 1/ea scrolls of Faerie Fire, Charm Animal, Speak with Animals.

How are you stacking actual armor with Bracers of Armor?

[fracas]

Oops! Had that in my inventory from a previous battle and forgot to sell it. Fixed.

Also forgot to mention that I have K.Nature maxed out - eTools puts the Knowledges in their own little area and lists it as cross-class. I have my skills sorted by class/cross-class and missed that one. Good point about survival being less important than spot/listen though. Fixed.

I'm leaning toward trip over grapple just because we tend to fit a lot of crazy beaters like ogres and some kind of bugbear-with-tentacles aberration. Tripping is great against the rest of the rabble since it keeps me up and active and provokes a mess of opportunity attacks whereas grapple prevents me from moving freely, throwing spells, etc. I'm also planning to take Natural Spell at 6th and maybe retrain Extend Spell to Expertise so I can get Imp Trip at 9th. Sound good?

Weapon is switched to Qstaff mostly for 2h benefits. I don't melee all that often with my 14 Str and BS generally seems better spent on the two barbs and my ape.

Produce Flame doesn't seem worth it. I blow a fairly useful 1st level slot to get 4 ranged attacks that are mediocre damage at best, and not horribly accurate with my 14 Dex either. I also have to spend a round to cast, where I could just be making a normal ranged attack.

If I use ranged attacks for 5 rounds, the breakdown is-
Produce flame x4 (first round casting): (1d6+3)x4=avg. (3.5+3)x4=6.5x4=26 damage assuming all attacks hit.
Composite+2 shortbow: (1d6+2)x5=avg. (3.5+2)x5=5.5x5=27.5 and I don't have to blow a spell slot on it.

I've basically just been using the sling because I haven't felt the need to buy a bow yet, but the option is there and I should probably make use of it.

The fog/mist spells aren't bad but the other druid tends to use them a fair amount already so I'm not too worried about them.

Thoughts? Thanks for the input everyone :)

[Eldariel]

Produce Flame can be cast beforehand to provide illumination, and the attacks are Touch Attacks so they should have about ~+5-+15 better To Hit on these levels. That said, yeah, the spell slot is expensive. Just something to consider at any rate. Splash weapons are good, btw. I like Alchemist's Fire myself; effective 2d6 as a touch attack for 20gp (few things have time to stop and roll in combat, and if they do it just became 1d6+daze+trip which is even better). Rather good investment.

My Arcane Adventures Wizard (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153187) used them as his primary damage source on these levels for obvious reasons and they work rather well.


Extend Spell will actually begin picking up traction around level 9, so that's a trade-off. It's possible though, but something you might want to consider anyways. Do note though that apparently by RAW Natural Weapons can't be used to initiate Trips by default. You'd need UA Strike for that.

And the creatures with Imp. Grab tend to be stronger (and more common) pound-for-pound than the ones with Imp. Trip so IUS>Imp. Grapple has something going on for it. IUS would also enable you to use primary UA Strikes even in Wildshape forms, at least arguably, and that's pretty good. But Expertise isn't worthless either. So...yeah, trade-off.


That said, if you can agree with your DM that natural weapons can be used to Trip with Imp. Trip, it definitely becomes the superior option as Tripping > Grappling and you'd be able to use the otherwise superior monsters for Tripping. Note that Tripping isn't stopped by Freedom of Movement, so there.

[fracas]

Fair enough. I'll keep a scroll of Produce Flame on hand. Alchemist Fire could get expensive fast since resources are low and I can do much more damage by, say, summoning a crocodile, but I do see the advantage. I'll grab several next time we get back to base.

My other reservation is that bad things happen when we roll a 1 and I'm imagining all my potions blowing up on me when I botch a roll. :p

I'll see what I can work out with the DM. I just lost my ape in the most recent game (went into a cave where he couldn't follow being large size, then ended up escaping on a zeppelin) and I suppose I could wait for it to find its way home but I think I'll probably just dismiss it and find another. Suggestions?

No exotic dinos - remember we're core only ;)

The Druid handbook suggests the War Dog is better than Wolf in every way, but per the SRD there are some important differences:

-Wolves move 50' instead of 40'
-Wolves get a free Improved Trip attack whenever they hit with a bite; dogs do not
-Dogs have AC 16 instead of 14
-Dogs can wear barding without penalty
-Dogs do 1d6+3 with a bite; wolves do 1d6+1

Based on this, dogs are better tanks (but still not all that good) and marginally better damage dealers, but wolves benefit from higher speed and the free Improved Trip is gold for taking down archers and casters (and the wolf will be better at reaching them in one turn rather than having to take a round of opposing fire on the way in).

They both seem better than a crocodile given the croc's low speed. Also, our party definitely values mobility and I can benefit from the dog's extra point of Int and teach it more tricks.

Dire Bat would be fun to ride on but my ranged attacks are pretty weak and I tend to be more useful on the ground buffing (touch range spells) and keeping enemies off the Wizard.

Or maybe I should just get another ape. Dogs just seem... underwhelming by comparison, as long as we don't keep heading into small caves. :p

[Killer Angel]

If it matters, the party is two druids (mine and a really gimpy one played by a newbie, details below), two barbarians (one played by a newbie), a TWF rogue, and a wizard.


Gear: +1 Dragonhide Breastplate, Darkwood Shield, +1 Bracers of Armor, club, Periapt of Wis +2, slingshot. 1/ea scrolls of Faerie Fire, Charm Animal, Speak with Animals.

Thoughts? The game is mostly survival in an area overrun with undead.


Sounds fun. Surely, you don't lack a strong frontline... :smallwink:

Gear: obviously, go for a druid's vestment when you can

Thoughts: a rogue in an area overrun with undead? I pity the player...

[Eldariel]

Based on this, dogs are better tanks (but still not all that good) and marginally better damage dealers, but wolves benefit from higher speed and the free Improved Trip is gold for taking down archers and casters (and the wolf will be better at reaching them in one turn rather than having to take a round of opposing fire on the way in).

The idea is to get a War-trained Riding Dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dogRiding.htm), which has higher Str and Wolf's Trip making it an excellent tripper, not to mention proficient in all armor due to being trained for war. Feel free to toss it Breastplate Barding if you feel like it; it'll still move 30', which might or might not be enough for your purposes. 50' is the Wolf's advantage but not enough to make up for all the Dog has going on for it.


They both seem better than a crocodile given the croc's low speed. Also, our party definitely values mobility and I can benefit from the dog's extra point of Int and teach it more tricks.

Croc is a nice grappler but mostly in aquatic/riverside campaigns as it's not really a creature that wants to be caught on ground.


Dire Bat would be fun to ride on but my ranged attacks are pretty weak and I tend to be more useful on the ground buffing (touch range spells) and keeping enemies off the Wizard.

It just so happens to be an asskicking combatant too, especially if you can give it Improved Anything as a feat. It has a sick AC, v. good Grapple/Trip-checks and very decent offense. Oh, and Blindsense and good Will-save. I love me some Dire Bat.


Or maybe I should just get another ape. Dogs just seem... underwhelming by comparison, as long as we don't keep heading into small caves. :p

Sure. Apes are actually surprisingly good on this level. And Black Bear is a bit bad due to only having 3 HD (:smallconfused:) and Leopard is only "Ok" for the same reason. Dire Bat is really the strongest Core-only option here, though Riding Dog isn't bad still. And yeah, the Ape is quite good.

[fracas]

Sounds fun. Surely, you don't lack a strong frontline...

Gear: obviously, go for a druid's vestment when you can

Thoughts: a rogue in an area overrun with undead? I pity the player...

LOL indeed. Our back line could be good too if we were playing a bit more optimized characters...

Druid's Vestment is on the to-buy list but currently our medieval post-apocalypse scenario and limited resources means we can only buy items up to 800gp (except starting equipment). We just rescued a skyfolk zeppelin and have a trade agreement underway (uhh, what does saving their butts and their expensive trade ship add to a diplomacy check? :p) so hopefully things will improve soon.

Actually the last session was just fine for the rogue (also the rogue's first session; new player) because we were fighting a mess of orcs, an ogre, and aberration-y goblins+hobgoblins. DM is talking about eventually giving out a feat to let the rogue sneak attack undead as well. Player has decent tactical sense so he should be alright. Normally I'd say he's still gimped but half the party is worse than the default advancement for their class, to say nothing of subpar tactics like using a wand of cure light in the middle of combat.

[fracas]

Dire Bat sounds good but how would I give it Improved Trip/Grapple? Those both require Combat Expertise and therefore Int 13. They have Int 2.

[Eldariel]

Dire Bat sounds good but how would I give it Improved Trip/Grapple? Those both require Combat Expertise and therefore Int 13. They have Int 2.

Imp Grapple only requires IUS which has prerequisite of Dex 13.