Any chance of eBooks of origin of PCs and start of darkness?

[Anon-a-mouse]

Is there any possibility of origin of PCs and Start of Darkness coming out as eBooks? While I would be happy to pay for the books themselves, the delivery charges outside the USA are a bit much.

[Dr.Epic]

I don't think has ever said anything about this.

[Dubious Pie]

To The Giant/Roland:
If the concern is piracy, there is all kinds of good DRM.

[Ancalagon]

1. Rich said something about it a while ago. He can only afford the paper-versions when all the book he sells are paper-versions. If like 30 or 80% (whatever-%) of the sales become ebooks, he either ends up with lots of paper in storehouses (the space must be paid for as well) or the number of printed books becomes too small for each unit to get sold at a reasonable price.

2. About DRM: Comics are no movie, so even screenshots of DRMd comics will give you perfect 1:1 copies in 72dpi. DRM might work (*cough*) for some games and on blueray or maybe even books, but I doubt it's a viable protection for the medium "comic". Also, DRM costs additional money, why pay it if a high-quality print-book (really, if you have never seen the print... it's like day and night compared the medicore quality of the online strips!) is a much better copy-protection than any digital voodoo could ever be?

[NerfTW]

He's said repeatedly that the problem is that there isn't a big enough market for both PDF and print versions. Those who buy the PDF versions would take sales away from the print version and cause it's price to skyrocket. It's a one or the other proposition.

[Morquard]

2. About DRM: Comics are no movie, so even screenshots of DRMd comics will give you perfect 1:1 copies in 72dpi.
How exactly is that different from people that take the physical books and scan them?

I'm not saying "release it for free, because it doesn't make sense to charge anyway". People that like the comic will still pay for it. Those that don't want to pay will find ways to not pay no matter what you do.

But the argument that he needs a certain amount of paper books to make it viable is a good argument.
In the end its the giants decission.

[Amarsir]

So the concern is that cannibalized sales would be sufficient to lose an economy of scale. And that this loss in efficiency would outweigh any gains from a second distribution form. I can see how that could theoretically be true, unfortunately.

However, I wonder: Was this a fairly recent statement? Or does it predate Rich launching Ookoodook? Because that could potentially change the math a little and it would be great to see something he couldn't do before suddenly become possible.

[Nimrod's Son]

How exactly is that different from people that take the physical books and scan them?
Is there anyone in the world who's ever done that?

Street markets are usually full of knock-off DVDs and games but I've never once seen photocopied books for sale, anywhere. Way too much effort for too little reward.

[JonestheSpy]

Is there anyone in the world who's ever done that?

Street markets are usually full of knock-off DVDs and games but I've never once seen photocopied books for sale, anywhere. Way too much effort for too little reward.

There are many sites where unscrupulous people scan comics and put them up for free on the web. Curses upon all of them unto the seventh generation.

And yes, it happens with text-only books things too. Harlan Ellison angered a lot of the the computer gek crowd by villifying (and legally pursuing) 'fans' who put his short stories up on the web for people to get free.

[Eldaran]

Is there anyone in the world who's ever done that?

Street markets are usually full of knock-off DVDs and games but I've never once seen photocopied books for sale, anywhere. Way too much effort for too little reward.

There's plenty of D&D books like that I've seen. Hundreds of pages scanned and compiled into a pdf.

I'll be honest here, I looked for a pirated pdf of SoD and Origin, and I couldn't find one. So, I bought the actual books, and I'm so glad I did. I consider it money well spent for something I enjoyed immensely.

As for DRM, that does nothing, even video games with the most advanced DRM possible get cracked in a matter of hours after release.

[Ancalagon]

How exactly is that different from people that take the physical books and scan them?

Quality? A scan never compares to a digital copy.

[Ancalagon]

Is there anyone in the world who's ever done that?

Yes. Roleplaying sourcebooks get scanned. I would bet all of them have been pirated that way.

[Superglucose]

You can find copies of pretty much everything if you look hard enough. That it's impossible to find SoD or Origins on torrenting sites is impressive, to say the least. It shows that for the most part, people respect the Giant and his work.

That being said, I will say that there is no DRM that is good DRM. I (legally) obtained a DVD from my local library (totally legal), and tried to (legally) watch it on my (legally obtained) computer with the (legally obtained) software that came (legally) with the laptop.

Windows Media Player promptly told me I was incapable of viewing the movie because it was clear and obvious that I was a pirate. "Avast" it proclaimed, "Ye silly landlubber hasn't the rights to view this here booty!" Shortly after it gave a final "AARRRrrrrrr!" as I sunk it into the bilgewater and booted up VLC.

I would much rather purchase the books, personally (except I hate shopping on the internet), or borrow them from a library or friend than even get them for free with DRM.

[Goonthegoof]

It's true that pretty much every single book is available on PDF, you don't even have to look hard. Just google the name of a sourcebook and there'll be several results for downloads.

[Superglucose]

Though I will point out that for 3.5 at least, the alternative is giving $50 to a cardshop that isn't even WotC certified right now (lol they lost it by releasing Zen a day early). These books that were maybe $20 on release? Yeah that's kind of nuts. I really wish I could buy ToB, SpC, and MiC, but alack alas...

[Irbis]

Is there anyone in the world who's ever done that?

Street markets are usually full of knock-off DVDs and games but I've never once seen photocopied books for sale, anywhere. Way too much effort for too little reward.

Then you haven't seen anything at all. In fact, there are two whole file formats dedicated to use with pirated comics, *.cbr and *.cbz.

Or so I have heard, at least :smallwink:


Quality? A scan never compares to a digital copy.

Please. Dedicated pirates can (and do) better copy 9 times out of 10 - for a very simple reason, legal files are held back both by space/time (as servers aren't free) and by various stupid regulations. Pirates with torrents don't have that problem. And they can use compression and more advanced formats with far better results. Sure, digital copy could be better if the owner wanted, but it practically never is.

Again, so I have heard, at least :smallwink:

And before someone asks/accuses, no, I haven't pirated anything in the past 5 years, at least.


That being said, I will say that there is no DRM that is good DRM. I (legally) obtained a DVD from my local library (totally legal), and tried to (legally) watch it on my (legally obtained) computer with the (legally obtained) software that came (legally) with the laptop.

I feel your pain. What idiot felt harassing paying customers was a good idea when pirates get all these things with hassle-free copies? It's like they wanted people to pirate, actually :smallsigh:

Sigh. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I spend 140$ getting limited, collectors edition of Ghost in the Shell SAC seasons one and two, and this crap is on half of the discs. Fortunately, fan uproar made the other half clean.

Still, limited collectors edition published years after pirates and yet, you still have to watch these stupid RIAA warnings :smallmad:

[Ancalagon]

Please. Dedicated pirates can (and do) better copy 9 times out of 10 - for a very simple reason, legal files are held back both by space/time (as servers aren't free) and by various stupid regulations. Pirates with torrents don't have that problem. And they can use compression and more advanced formats with far better results. Sure, digital copy could be better if the owner wanted, but it practically never is.

What? I am not entirely sure what you try to tell me. You tell me that scanning a paper would result in better quality than a 1:1 copy of bits?

I'm sorry, but you plainly are wrong. Any analog transmission of information is connected with losses. If you scan something, you shine light on it and see what sort of light gets reflected. You get diffraction, you get a different colour-space, and you lose amplitude (brightness, in this case). You have microscopic scratches and dust in the glass between the light and the paper... You can try to add this in and also anti-alias some artefacts you can in scanning stuff (you know, print is like 4 colour print, this tiny dots that create moire-patterns and other artefacts) but claiming that a lossy, post-processed copy would be better than just transmitting bits as they are is plainly... hum... wrong.

I also have the faint impression this thread derails into "How to Pirate OotS-books", something that is probably not wanted by the authors.

[Mystic Muse]

DRM sucks, doesn't stop pirates and annoys legitimate buyers. Putting the comics in PDF format just makes things easier to pirate. Granted it might not apply in this case since most of the people who would buy a PDF would be loyal to Rich but it's probably a bigger risk than it's worth. He might put them into a PDF format in the future (Such as when he's finished with the comic) but right now it's probably too much of a financial risk.

[Ancalagon]

Btw... releasing OotS on DRM-ed digital media is a buy I won't make. Call me old fashined but I usually want actually own stuff I buy.

[Mystic Muse]

Btw... releasing OotS on DRM-ed digital media is a buy I won't make. Call me old fashined but I usually want actually own stuff I buy.

Wait, you don't even own DRM stuff?

There goes any chance of me ever buying a PDF with DRM on it.

[Ancalagon]

Wait, you don't even own DRM stuff?

As little as possible, yes. I got GTA IV via steam but only because it cost only 7,50 €. I have games that have DRM but only weak versions, not that braindead UBIsoft stuff, I'd never buy Assassins Creed 2 due to that.

I surely would not buy an ebook or ecomic that not behave like a paperbook and papercomic (as in I can rent, sell, lose, give, ...).

Also, I do not like reading ebooks. I want books and comics that I can read on the bed without some hard computer thing around. Paper is the only true carrier for a book (and it is not an issue if you forget/leave one outside overnight).

No clue why there goes YOUR chance to buy pdfs with DRM. I just said I would be a lost customer to that. Every other customer can hold that issue as they want, I just wanted to point out that "going digital" does not have mean "increased market". You gain some, you lose some. Is it worth it in the end for the author? Not up to me to decide.

[Trixie]

Wait, you don't even own DRM stuff?

Yes. You only have a 'limited reserved incorporated license to use it for a short while until we deem it necessary to take it away for some reason'.

Amazon demonstrated it by deleting the DRMed books (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/amazon-sold-pirated-books-raided-some-kindles.ars) people not only bought, but started using. Ironically, 1984 was among them. Sure, they had a (flimsy) justification in that case, as they didn't have a licence to e-book version of those, but they did it a few more times even without such (apparent) justification.

At least they had the dignity to return money, but they were not in the least obliged to do so under US law. Other companies are closing servers and discontinuing services they promised and were paid for (http://boingboing.net/2008/09/26/walmart-shutting-dow.html) and yet, no one saw a red cent.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Thread locked for being woefully off course and into pirate territory. Only The Giant can answer the OPs question and if he wants to do so, he can post through the lock.