Sherlock (BBC Series)

[Allan Surgite]

Sherlock, a new BBC Sunday night drama starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman, was last aired on Sunday night and is going to run for three episodes. Now, you can Google it if you want more information on it, but it's basically Sherlock Holmes in the 21st Century.

The difference to most is that it's really good.

So, has anyone seen it and would they care to contribute their thoughts on it? I'm a massive fan of it, even after a single episode.

[Otogi]

There was a another Holmes in the 21st century?

[factotum]

Saw it, and was pretty impressed all told...not that should have been a surprise, considering it was written by the Moff!

[Thufir]

I mentioned this in Random Banter last night:


Well, it prompted me to wander around acting eccentric for a while. That's always good.
The way Sherlock is written is a bit reminiscent of the Doctor, which is slightly annoying because you want the character to be distinct, but there are enough differences. And actually it has struck me that you could imagine the Doctor meeting Conan Doyle and turning out to be the inspiration for Sherlock Holmes.

That's the only negative thing I can really think of to say. I love this take on Holmes, the text flashing up on-screen giving you an insight into his thought-processes is very interesting, etc. It's generally really good.

[Adlan]

I only saw the first 1/2 hour, but I must say, it looked fantastic. I love the little references to the books. A 3 Patch problem was a fantastic line.

[TheLaughingMan]

Oh. And here I thought you meant that one show from the 70's/80's. That one was great. I have nothing to say about this one.

[Allan Surgite]

^There was another BBC series? Sorry.

Anyway: I did like the text flashing up on the screen to show Sherlock's thought process, as well as the same technique being used for the mobile phones. The "update" of Holmes' drug addiction from the original stories (was it cocaine?) to Sherlock's nicotine patches is certainly a pragmatic move.

[Dvil]

I believe it was opium originally. Could be wrong. But yes, I loved it. Cumberbatch was definitely a good choice as lead role.

[Thufir]

I believe it was opium originally. Could be wrong. But yes, I loved it. Cumberbatch was definitely a good choice as lead role.

Yes, it was opium, though in the originals I believe he only indulged his habit between cases, to stave off the boredom.

[Allan Surgite]

I do believe there was reference to tobacco in aid of his thinking processes, however. Can't recall the story if you asked me to, though.

[Joran]

So for those of us in the United States, is there a legal method of obtaining this awesomeness?

[DeafnotDumb]

I do believe there was reference to tobacco in aid of his thinking processes, however. Can't recall the story if you asked me to, though.

In the books, Sherlock considered one case of his a 'three pipe problem' - like the 'three patch problem' he gets in the episode.

Also, somebody's started troping (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Sherlock?from=Main.Sherlock) this thing already.

[Allan Surgite]

So for those of us in the United States, is there a legal method of obtaining this awesomeness?
Move to Britain. I'm not sure! Maybe hope for a DVD release, or maybe BBC America airs it?

And that trope list got expanded from when I looked at it :smalltongue:

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

I'm sure they will, since that first episode was excellent.

[Jahkaivah]

Well, it prompted me to wander around acting eccentric for a while. That's always good.
The way Sherlock is written is a bit reminiscent of the Doctor, which is slightly annoying because you want the character to be distinct, but there are enough differences. And actually it has struck me that you could imagine the Doctor meeting Conan Doyle and turning out to be the inspiration for Sherlock Holmes.

Alot of Doctor mannerisms were in there, though the characters differ dramatically when it comes to things like morals and respect for others. I was more reminded of Robert Downey Jr's interpretation of the character in that film. Plus the music bears resemblance too. Which is awesome. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zIzy3laQck)

[Iku Rex]

I expected a Princess Bride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)-style reveal. I figured the cabbie had been taking some very strong medicine the last few years, and had built up an immunity. Both pills were "poison".

What was that about Watson being shot in Afghanistan?

[factotum]

What was that about Watson being shot in Afghanistan?

What do you mean? Seemed pretty self-explanatory to me--he was an Army doctor who got shot and invalided out, but he missed the action and was thus getting all sorts of psychosomatic problems (such as the limp and shaking hands) because of it. Once he got some excitement back into his life by joining Sherlock, those problems went away.

[Iku Rex]

What do you mean? Seemed pretty self-explanatory to me--he was an Army doctor who got shot and invalided out, but he missed the action and was thus getting all sorts of psychosomatic problems (such as the limp and shaking hands) because of it.He got shot in the shoulder and because of this he developed a crippling psychosomatic limp?

Doesn't seem self-explanatory to me...

[Allan Surgite]

I expected a Princess Bride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)-style reveal. I figured the cabbie had been taking some very strong medicine the last few years, and had built up an immunity. Both pills were "poison".
Same. It doesn't say whether or not he does or not, though - after all, he could just be a master manipulator, or he has a failsafe. Everything is possible.


He got shot in the shoulder and because of this he developed a crippling psychosomatic limp?
You removed the middle process. That's like saying "chicken lays an egg and so I am now tucking into a nice box of KFC." Watson is given a non-lethal injury that ultimately does him little harm; however, it could be dangerous, so he's removed from combat and is barred from returning. However, he loves the thrill of the hunt and thus develops several psychosomatic tendencies because he isn't hunting; ergo, his tendencies melt away as he becomes part of Sherlock's world.

[factotum]

He got shot in the shoulder and because of this he developed a crippling psychosomatic limp?


Psychosomatic: "of or pertaining to a physical disorder that is caused by or notably influenced by emotional factors.". In other words, he had no physical problem with his leg, the limp was caused by his mental state, as Allan just said.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Yes, it was opium, though in the originals I believe he only indulged his habit between cases, to stave off the boredom.

Cocaine was his drug of choice, actually, aside from the occasional use of morphine. He actually shows strong signs of disapproval in the one case where he enters an opium den, and is never mentioned as taking opium.

[Hazkali]

Loved it, a bit upset to learn that it's only running for three episodes. Watson is quite interesting, and Holmes is as interesting as he can be, for the Superman of detective fiction.

[Tiger Duck]

I expected a Princess Bride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)-style reveal. I figured the cabbie had been taking some very strong medicine the last few years, and had built up an immunity. Both pills were "poison".

I was expecting that as well, but I'm glad it wasn't or at least not said in so many words. Because that would totally diminish the cabby's genius.


I did figure out that it was a cabdriver very early on. and felt a bit disappointed that mister Holmes didn't.

[Nuallain]

He got shot in the shoulder and because of this he developed a crippling psychosomatic limp?

Doesn't seem self-explanatory to me...

It's part of the homage.

In the original stories, when Conan Doyle introduces Watson in A Study in Scarlet he gives him a limp he got while fighting in Helmand Provence in Afghanistan (how little things change, eh?) which led to him being invalided out of the army. But then, in later stories, he forgets Watson's supposed to have a limp ("I am considered fleet of foot" he says at one point) and, in even later ones, remembers Watson was invalided out of the army but randomly says it was a shoulder wound that did it.

Continuity was not the guy's strong point, at all (he also keeps misremembering Watson's wife's name, leading to some amount of speculation among fans as to how many times Watson remarried between stories).

Anyway, in terms of Sherlock, Moffat has fun with it by giving Watson a limp he sometimes has and sometimes doesn't (psychosomatic seems a clever enough way of doing it) and a mysteriously random shoulder wound rather than a leg one (complete with a wonderfully flummoxed expression on Sherlock's face as he digests how odd it is)

[Iku Rex]

^ Ah. That makes more sense.

[Comet]

Managed to finally give this a watch just a few minutes ago. Awesome stuff, easily the best television I've seen in ages. Moffat really gets to have fun with the characters and mythology, which results in a story that is probably better than anything he has done in a while.

Kind of a shame that we'll only get a handful of episodes, but maybe that's exactly the thing that will keep the story fresh and enable them to really lean on their budget and creativity where it counts, instead of having to spread it out.

[Allan Surgite]

I've heard that these three are just a trial run for a possible later series, if it gets good ratings/reviews.

And if not, this. (http://www.bbcshop.com/drama+arts/sherlock-dvd/invt/bbcdvd3223/)

[DomaDoma]

What, no love for the twist in the last scene yet? Because that was the best part of the whole damned episode, and that's saying a lot.

[Comet]

What, no love for the twist in the last scene yet? Because that was the best part of the whole damned episode, and that's saying a lot.


Agreed, it pretty much seems to sum up the spirit of this series. Pure fanservice with a twist. Brilliant stuff.

[Allan Surgite]

What, no love for the twist in the last scene yet? Because that was the best part of the whole damned episode, and that's saying a lot.
I'm assuming you mean that the reveal in which Mark Gatiss is revealed to be Mycroft? That's not that bad, I think.

[DomaDoma]

Yup, that's the one.

The Rache/Rachel thing was also a good shoutout.

I hadn't read all of Study in Scarlet - apparently, TVTropes says it does have a reveal in common - but yeah, I was wondering why they didn't check the guy out to begin with.

Anybody have an idea why the cab stopped at that particular point, though? Because I have nothing.

[Allan Surgite]

I'll spoiler it, if that's okay? It's in white text from here: Right. As the show shows, the cabbie is the "proper serial killer." In keeping with his nature, he stops outside the building, knowing that Sherlock's probably keeping an eye on it. When he sees Sherlock and John running towards him, he drives off; they give chase, open the back door, see the passenger, leave the cabbie be. He was proving a point to Sherlock: namely, that nobody notices the cabbie. Okay, spoiler done.

[deuxhero]

The first episode is based on A Study in Scarlet. Didn't Doyle have to apologize for some egregious lack of research in that one? How did they deal with that part?

[Tiger Duck]

Well I haven't read the original story, but this one seemed like a reasonable realistic story.

But now I think about it they didn't name the poison that was used, so they avoided having to do research there.

[Allan Surgite]

I'm more a fan of the short stories, but to my knowledge, A Study in Pink is more-or-less in name only, not including references to the original. Their solution to the problem was to ignore it.

And the second seems to be based on the short story The Dancing Men or whatever it was called. It was my favourite short story; this should be fun.

[kusje]

I'm amazed that Holmes didn't get the pills analysed... You know, to check if he actually got the right one!

[Allan Surgite]

So, episode II aired last night.

Another fantastic episode, even if I've yet to watch it with my full attention focused on it.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

I caught parts of The Dancing Men and The Sign of Four in that one. Anyone else?

[vampire2948]

For the benefit of those of you that live in America / Similar, you can watch the episodes of Sherlock Holmes at this location:

Episode 1 : A Study in Pink (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t8wp0/Sherlock_A_Study_in_Pink/)

Episode 2 : The Blind Banker (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tc6t2/Sherlock_The_Blind_Banker/)

[Jahkaivah]

I enjoyed it, but prefered the first episode which I found it easier follow. This episode got a little bit too actiony at times. It's also hard to take a villain seriously when they manage to confuse Sherlock with Watson, isn't there some straight foward way of figuring out what the guy looked like?

Also not enough of that awesome music played.

Also I see Watson seems to have developed his old habit of being inconsistant in interpretation. Moffat's Watson was, like Sherlock, bored of normal life and desired the thrills of detective work, and he was fairly good at tolerating Sherlock's behaviour.

Now we have him trying to get a normal boring job, trying to hold down a date, and complaining to Sherlock about his behaviour and how he hasn't got the time for being normal anymore.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

No they can't; only British IP addresses can use it, since the BBC is funded by the License Fee.

[Allan Surgite]

I caught parts of The Dancing Men and The Sign of Four in that one. Anyone else?
The plot device of an old friend from college is from one of the short stories. Not sure if it's The Dancing Men or not, though.

[DeafnotDumb]

Now we have him trying to get a normal boring job, trying to hold down a date, and complaining to Sherlock about his behaviour and how he hasn't got the time for being normal anymore.

Trying being the key word here. He wasn't very good at any of those things, especially dealing with the supermarket queue, and despite all his complaints he was remarkably quick to accompany Sherlock on his jaunts.

[Thufir]

I see Watson seems to have devloped his old habit of being inconsistant in interpretation, Moffat's Watson was, like Sherlock, bored of normal life and desired the thrills of detective work, and he was fairly good at tolerating Sherlock's behaviour.

Now we have him trying to get a normal boring job, trying to hold down a date, and complaining to Sherlock about his behaviour and how he hasn't got the time for being normal anymore.

I don't see the inconsistency. He went to get that job because he needs to earn money somehow. In the first episode, he'd only just met Sherlock. At this point, they've been living together a little while; also, in the first episode Sherlock was arrogant, imperious and pompous, but did nothing that really inconvenienced Watson at all. This episode, Watson was twice left standing outside someone's home in the cold while Sherlock broke in, and left standing holding a can of spray paint to get an ASBO (Actually, that's an issue - I find it hard to believe Watson lacks the presence of mind to follow Sherlock and his graffiti artist friend when they ran away). Sherlock also saw fit to, depending on how you look at it, impose himself and his case on Watson's date, or shift Watson's date into his case.

That said, I do think this episode wasn't as good as last week's.
While I appreciate the effort put into making it seem plausible that Watson could be mistaken for Sherlock, it still seemed somewhat contrived, and the sequence of flashbacks seemed over the top for a relatively minor point.
The villain, not that bright. Refusing to believe that just maybe, 'Sherlock' simply hasn't figured out yet where the hairpin is? Especially since they had no means of knowing he'd cracked the code, without which he couldn't know it was a hairpin he was looking for. Additionally, they wanted Sherlock to find it for them, presumably they know his reputation - how? Because if it's from his website, they might have noticed he has a flatmate called John Watson, and thought to check what he looks like? (Since he could be another means of leverage) I did, however, like the point about the assassin missing because he wasn't really trying.
Watson's ASBO was mentioned once and then never again, not resolved, so it does seem like a bit of an excuse to create additional friction between Holmes and Watson. Pointless.
Also, Sherlock didn't seem quite so brilliant in this episode (Though I still like the little bits of his thinking being shown). Needing the fact two words had already been translated pointed out to him by Watson's date? (Attempting to justify her as something other than a damsel in distress to be tied up and rescued at the last moment?) This from the man who notices everything? Skipping straight to rescuing the girl rather than dealing with all his enemies so they don't get him while he's untying ropes? Inefficient, since there was clearly time. Not to mention that simply redirecting the crossbow would have been a much simpler rescue method than untying the ropes, as we saw.
Plus, rescuing the girl from the time-limited deathtrap was essentially the climax of the episode, the rest just being wrapping up. Emphasis not enough on Sherlock's brilliant deductions and too much on the slightly contrived and implausibly resolved action sequence.

(Wow, that's a wall of text. Would you believe I still liked the episode despite all that?)

[Closet_Skeleton]

The first episode is based on A Study in Scarlet. Didn't Doyle have to apologize for some egregious lack of research in that one? How did they deal with that part?

The lack of research in A Study in Scarlet is in the portrayal of Mormons. They just cut the whole Mormon thing entirely and re-wrote the killer's motivations.

[Jahkaivah]

Trying being the key word here. He wasn't very good at any of those things, especially dealing with the supermarket queue, and despite all his complaints he was remarkably quick to accompany Sherlock on his jaunts.

But he seemed to want to. And he wasn't so quick to abandon his date which he chose to have. What happened to "you're like me" back at the resturant?

I supposed it's to be interpreted as him in denial, which he showed some signs of being in the first episode, but it just doesn't quite fit.


Also, in the first episode Sherlock was arrogant, imperious and pompous, but did nothing that really inconvenienced Watson at all.

It's a good job you said that, I was going to feel guilty about leaving my disabled friend stranded in the middle of London :smallwink:

[Thufir]

It's a good job you said that, I was going to feel guilty about leaving my disabled friend stranded in the middle of London :smallwink:

Damn. Thought I was forgetting something. But, to be fair, Watson couldn't really complain to Sherlock about that, since he was, y'know, not there.

[Closet_Skeleton]

This one seemed a bit cliche and overdone compared to the last one. Especially with the over theatrical villains Fu Manchu and the "by the numbers" scare scene at the beginning.

[comicshorse]

Yeah I've only seen the second one but the first would have to be a huge improvement over it to get me excited.
And Martin Freeman really can't act. He seems to have three expressions: bored, irritated and confused and nothing else !

[DomaDoma]

Why is everyone mentioning "Dancing Men"? The code is clearly closer to the one in Valley of Fear. (Which is just as well. Monoalphabetic cyphers have no place in any story set in the modern day.)

[Glad_Vampyre]

Sherlock, a new BBC Sunday night drama starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman, was last aired on Sunday night and is going to run for three episodes. Now, you can Google it if you want more information on it, but it's basically Sherlock Holmes in the 21st Century.


Question:

Is it like crime scenes that happen today or like crime scenes that are a bit more complex than just a bunch of dead hookers and gang bangers? Because otherwise it'll just be yet another csi series.

[DomaDoma]

Question:

Is it like crime scenes that happen today or like crime scenes that are a bit more complex than just a bunch of dead hookers and gang bangers? Because otherwise it'll just be yet another csi series.

Sherlock Holmes without singularities in the crime department wouldn't have us all raving about the awesome, now would it?:smallbiggrin:

[DomaDoma]

Also, apparently the websites actually exist.

Here's John's. (http://www.johnwatsonblog.co.uk/)

Here's Sherlock's. (http://www.thescienceofdeduction.co.uk/)

And this is the blog of that university lab tech Sherlock is such an indefatigable **** to. (http://www.mollyhooper.co.uk/) You'll want to read this one from beginning to end, I'm pretty sure. Looks to me like a strong indication of the way the third episode is going. (Also, Glee, tee-hee.)

[Jahkaivah]

And this is the blog of that university lab tech Sherlock is such an indefatigable **** to. (http://www.mollyhooper.co.uk/) You'll want to read this one from beginning to end, I'm pretty sure. Looks to me like a strong indication of the way the third episode is going. (Also, Glee, tee-hee.)

Kittens!!!

[Aidan305]

I must say, I was vaguely disappointed that they weren't updating the website to coincide with the updates on the television.

[comicshorse]

Better than the second epsiode, right up to the end. Then just awful.

Not really going to bother if the series continues

[Aidan305]

Why didn't you like it?

[Thufir]

Care to be a tad more specific? What precisely was so awful about it? And why should it be sufficient to put you off any hypothetical continuation?

[comicshorse]

M was just awful. Stupendously irritating and silly all wrapped up in one package. And completely unconvincing that he had the intelligence to tie his shoes let alone be a criminal genius.
And the show-down with the Golem was just so far into ridiculously camp I couldn't take anything else in the episode seriously from then on

[Thufir]

Well, I disagree. Not much more I can say than that, and you didn't really answer my third question.

Though, I have realised something which may be a bit of a plot hole.
Mycroft has Sherlock and Watson under surveillance. I'm sure he must keep track of Sherlock's website. And yet, when Sherlock posts up about handing over the plans Mycroft asked him to find to someone else, we see no sign of him doing anything about it?

[comicshorse]

The third one seems obvious, if I haven't enjoyed the series after two episodes it seems likely I won't enjoy future ones

[BRC]

So I watched the first episode, and I enjoyed it.
Well, not the mystery itself, it wasn't very good, but the characters gave me good hope for the series.

The Holmes-o-Vision works very well, and they did a nice job of updating all the characters.

I will admit, that I thought they'd introduced Moriarty in the first episode (And in such a cliche way too). I was disappointed.

Until the last five minutes, when I realized how much I'd been played, and that it was awesome.

[Jahkaivah]

The third one seems obvious, if I haven't enjoyed the series after two episodes it seems likely I won't enjoy future ones

Those chances are significantly improved if you enjoyed it after three episodes however, I would recommend giving the first one a shot before deciding you don't like it at all. It's simply a case of needing good writing behind it which is a problem when the writer changes every episode.

[DomaDoma]

Okay, you have to admit I called it with Molly Hooper's blog.

(Also, I'd really like to kill these cliffhangering bastards.)

[factotum]

Yes, leaving a cliffhanger ending when it's the last episode of the series is what some people might call a **** move. (And I self-censored that--I leave it to my audience to substitute an appropriate word. :smalltongue:).

[Aidan305]

Yes, leaving a cliffhanger ending when it's the last episode of the series is what some people might call a **** move. (And I self-censored that--I leave it to my audience to substitute an appropriate word. :smalltongue:).

Really?

I loved that they ended on a cliffhanger. Their own little Reichenbach.

[Brother Oni]

One thing has been bugging me about the new series about Dr Watson.

Presumably he was a fully trained doctor before he went into the army; fully qualified doctors joining the army go on a short course at Sandhurst, where they're taught how to march in a straight line and iron their clothes, get given a commission (officer rank) then get told to go be doctors in their new regiment, usually the Royal Army Medical Corps (the badge on the mug he used in the beginning of the first episode showed something similar to the RAMC badge, but that's a bit of a no-brainer).

They're usually not given formal command and leadership training (in the RAMC, that's role's done by Medical Support Officers), so I'm wondering how he's missing the action and excitement of combat if he wasn't allowed near the combat in the first place. All the dangerous stuff in the field would have been done by combat medics who are non-comms - he wouldn't have been expected (or even allowed) to go out on patrol.

The closest he's likely to have been to combat is if he was assigned to a forward base which was attacked, either by infantry or infrequent mortar attacks - that's still considerably different to going out on patrol to look for the enemy.

Am I over thinking this and should just go back to enjoying the series? :smallsigh:

[DomaDoma]

In wars like the one in Afghanistan, filled with terrorists and guerillas, not being allowed near the combat doesn't mean you won't see plenty of combat.

[Allan Surgite]

Ahahahahaha, oh wow. What a great finalé for the series, after a mediocre second episode. It does appear that having Paul McGuigan as a director is a winning move, but correlation does not imply causation, ah-ha (for those not paying attention, McGuigan directed Episode 1 and 3, with Euros Lyn in Episode 2).

Nevertheless, I did not see Molly's homosexual friend being Jim Moriarty coming. At all.

-edit- But whatever happened to the Golem? He left the Planetarium, then just vanished.

[Closet_Skeleton]

One thing has been bugging me about the new series about Dr Watson.

Presumably he was a fully trained doctor before he went into the army; fully qualified doctors joining the army go on a short course at Sandhurst, where they're taught how to march in a straight line and iron their clothes, get given a commission (officer rank) then get told to go be doctors in their new regiment, usually the Royal Army Medical Corps (the badge on the mug he used in the beginning of the first episode showed something similar to the RAMC badge, but that's a bit of a no-brainer).

They're usually not given formal command and leadership training (in the RAMC, that's role's done by Medical Support Officers), so I'm wondering how he's missing the action and excitement of combat if he wasn't allowed near the combat in the first place. All the dangerous stuff in the field would have been done by combat medics who are non-comms - he wouldn't have been expected (or even allowed) to go out on patrol.

The closest he's likely to have been to combat is if he was assigned to a forward base which was attacked, either by infantry or infrequent mortar attacks - that's still considerably different to going out on patrol to look for the enemy.

Am I over thinking this and should just go back to enjoying the series? :smallsigh:

This is TV land, where lawyers and judges can solve crimes. So army radio operators and RAF mechanics probably have combat experiance too.

I think the big question is "does Moriarty naturally talk like that or does he just do it to unnerve people?" If its the later its acceptable, if its the former it makes him some kind of lame Graham Norton: Super criminal.

[banjo1985]

Hmmm, three good shows that I enjoyed more than most TV these days. I couldn't help but be aware that the mini-series started with a great first episode, trickling down to a final one that was merely good.

Cumberbatch is a masterstroke as Holmes, and the character is portrayed in a very convincing eccentric manner. After the movie his comparitive inadequacy in a fight is really quite refreshing, meaning we can watch exercise his brilliant mind rather this fists. Watson is okay, and was used to good effect in the first episode, but became more and more of a superficial sidekick as time went on. The final scene of the last episode kind of compacted that for me, and I called it about twenty minutes into the show. Moriarty also had the annoying side effect of reminding me of Kuja from Final Fantasy 9...which is not a good thing.

Still, other than a few odd additions here and there I really enjoyed it, and I hope they make more at some point, judging by the amount of people I know watching it I would think that's a decent possibility.

[Allan Surgite]

Moriarty also had the annoying side effect of reminding me of Kuja from Final Fantasy 9...which is not a good thing.
My avatar disagrees.

Also: I do believe a member of the cast, possibly Cumberbatch himself, has stated that due to the number of good reviews, a new series is likely, but Mr. Steven Moffat has other projects to attend to.

[Brother Oni]

In wars like the one in Afghanistan, filled with terrorists and guerillas, not being allowed near the combat doesn't mean you won't see plenty of combat.

Seeing combat when defending a fortified position is very different from fighting the enemy during skirmishes in built up urban environments or going hunting for them in the hills.

That said, maybe I should focus more on the fact that Watson is in possession of a smuggled automatic pistol which he has used to kill a person, something the police would be more interested in, especially considering gun control laws here.


This is TV land, where lawyers and judges can solve crimes. So army radio operators and RAF mechanics probably have combat experiance too.

I'm over thinking it then. *Switches brain off*

[DeafnotDumb]

Though, I have realised something which may be a bit of a plot hole.
Mycroft has Sherlock and Watson under surveillance. I'm sure he must keep track of Sherlock's website. And yet, when Sherlock posts up about handing over the plans Mycroft asked him to find to someone else, we see no sign of him doing anything about it?

Sherlock's just about to meet a dangerous criminal mastermind. I like to think he set up the meeting in such a way so he knew that Mycroft could be able to intercept and save his backside if need be.

And it would be a neat way to get out of that cliffhanger.

[Tiger Duck]

So wait, Moriarty is his real name? And the shoe victim was personal, committed by a much younger Moriarty?

I think Holmes should have found that link.


But this cliffhanger was pretty mean :smallfurious:

[DomaDoma]

Aidan, you say that like that wasn't a **** move. :smalltongue:

[Aidan305]

Aidan, you say that like that wasn't a **** move. :smalltongue:

It's as much of a **** move as when Conan Doyle did it. And I approve.

[factotum]

Conan Doyle did it because he was sick of writing Holmes books and wanted to kill him off...which led to interesting shenanigans when he started writing them again, of course!

[Adlan]

That said, maybe I should focus more on the fact that Watson is in possession of a smuggled automatic pistol which he has used to kill a person, something the police would be more interested in, especially considering gun control laws here.


Another hangover of the old series, Watson always had his old service revolver close to hand in the books.

Of course, while likely these firearms are held illegally, Sherlocks brothers influence maybe protecting him, and so far, Watson hasn't drawn or printed in public, so he should be okay.

[SmartAlec]

One of the disappointments of the finale -

In the stories, Moriarty had a second-in-command, a sort of evil Watson figure by the name of Sebastian Moran. Retired soldier, crack shot with a rifle, gentleman etc. With the bomb victims threatened by a sniper, I thought that might be a reference to him; possibly updated into a former member of the SAS or even the IRA. Having many marksmen covering Holmes and Watson at the end made that unlikely, however.

Couldn't understand why Moriarty went back into the pool, other than to create the cliffhanger. It was as if the writers had two endings - one where Holmes is very relieved that Watson is safe, and another with the cliffhanger, and tried to fit both of them in one over the other. It was obvious the two reasons why Holmes didn't shoot Moriarty was because Watson was in danger if he did, and that there was a chance of outwitting Moriarty later; if he came in and told Holmes and Watson they were both going to die, of course Holmes is going to shoot. It might have been suicidal curiosity, as with Holmes and the pills in the first episode, but I'm not sure how there could be any doubt as to how Holmes will act as to cause that curiosity.

[factotum]

Bear in mind:


Moriarty *grinned* when he saw Holmes point the gun at the discarded explosive vest. I think he knows exactly what will happen when Holmes pulls that trigger, and it isn't what Holmes expects to happen!

[Jahkaivah]

Couldn't understand why Moriarty went back into the pool, other than to create the cliffhanger. It was as if the writers had two endings - one where Holmes is very relieved that Watson is safe, and another with the cliffhanger, and tried to fit both of them in one over the other.

It probably was because of two intended endings, if show wasn't well recieved they probaby planned to just stick with Holmes and Watson safe.

That said, an in story explanation could be that he isn't Moriarty, and is actually just Jim from IT, who's also being threatened by a rifle. Only not just as a messenger, but also as an actor to pretend to be Moriarty.

That would explain why he left and came back, he was desperately wanting to get out of there and did the second he thought he had the opportunity to, but unfortunately Moriarity had other plans for him. That also explains why he was speaking so strangely, he wasn't trying to scare them, he himself was scared that he was going to get shot.

Though I admit I'm thinking this largely because I don't want that guy to be Moriarty.

EDIT: Just re-watched the scene in question, actually I can't see this happening.

[BRC]

While I liked the series, and the last episode was a decent enough way to introduce Moriarty, I hated the way they treated him. The Napoleon Of Crime is not a goofballl

[Thufir]

While I liked the series, and the last episode was a decent enough way to introduce Moriarty, I hated the way they treated him. The Napoleon Of Crime is not a goofballl

No, but he's very good at acting like one.


In the stories, Moriarty had a second-in-command, a sort of evil Watson figure by the name of Sebastian Moran. Retired soldier, crack shot with a rifle, gentleman etc. With the bomb victims threatened by a sniper, I thought that might be a reference to him; possibly updated into a former member of the SAS or even the IRA. Having many marksmen covering Holmes and Watson at the end made that unlikely, however.

I don't see how the fact a crime lord has multiple henchmen invalidates the possibility of his right-hand man being there. It hadn't occurred to me, since just having a sniper involved isn't much of an indication, but I would imagine Moran was the sniper for the previous occasions, but Moriarty wanted to have several for the confrontation with Sherlock.
Or not. However, given Moffat and Gatiss describe themselves as massive Sherlock Holmes geeks, I would be surprised if Moran didn't turn up at some point.

[Brother Oni]

I did like the WTF moment in the last scene of the third episode when
Watson stepped out of the changing room and you had the sudden moment of 'He's the bomber?!'.


Bear in mind:


Moriarty *grinned* when he saw Holmes point the gun at the discarded explosive vest. I think he knows exactly what will happen when Holmes pulls that trigger, and it isn't what Holmes expects to happen!


Depends on how closely they're staying in TV land:

Plastic explosives don't explode when they're shot - they need a detonator/blasting cap, so of course Holmes shooting the vest with a gun isn't going to make it go boom. Mind you the difference between plastic and chemical explosives is one you'd expect Holmes to know, it's not similar to the comparatively trite knowledge level of not knowing the Earth goes round the sun.

[Thufir]

I did like the WTF moment in the last scene of the third episode when
Watson stepped out of the changing room and you had the sudden moment of 'He's the bomber?!'.

Actually, my immediate thought was that he'd seen Sherlock's post on his website and come to tell him off for being so obsessed as to give up secrets of apparently national importance. Then I considered the possible twist of 'Watson is Moriarty' (Though it didn't seem likely), and then I made the connection with the thick overcoat.


Depends on how closely they're staying in TV land:

Plastic explosives don't explode when they're shot - they need a detonator/blasting cap, so of course Holmes shooting the vest with a gun isn't going to make it go boom. Mind you the difference between plastic and chemical explosives is one you'd expect Holmes to know, it's not similar to the comparatively trite knowledge level of not knowing the Earth goes round the sun.

I think we must assume the explosives will explode when shot, or what's the point of the sniper?

[Allan Surgite]

On the last episode's victims...

I did find the idea of "stealing people's voices" to be quite interesting, even if Watson did seem a bit "=/" about it. Which is quite in-character for him, I'll admit.

I do wish they'd given Moriarty some less stupid lines when he wasn't being a goofball. I mean, "is that a British [gun] or are you pleased to see me?" is a pretty lame line, although Sherlock's retort helps.

[SmartAlec]

While I liked the series, and the last episode was a decent enough way to introduce Moriarty, I hated the way they treated him. The Napoleon Of Crime is not a goofballl

It's just hit me - they've turned Moriarty into the Master from New Doctor Who. Same giggly glee, same casual malice, same obsession with the hero. It seems backward - Holmes was originally the obsessive one, whereas Moriarty is the one trying to get on with business as usual and finally gets nasty when Holmes makes it impossible.

Moriarty here claims that Holmes has come closer than anyone else in revealing his identity - but how? Holmes hardly knew anything about the guy, beyond his surname, and if he'd undertaken any further investigations, we never saw them.

[Thufir]

It's just hit me - they've turned Moriarty into the Master from Doctor Who.

That struck me as well. Though I suspect one of the ideas behind the Master will have been for him to be Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes in any case.

[SmartAlec]

That struck me as well. Though I suspect one of the ideas behind the Master will have been for him to be Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes in any case.

Originally, yes, but in the original Master, they preserved the relationship. The Master undertook dastardly capers, the Doctor stumbled across them and thwarted him. They had the same respect for each other's intellectual prowess and ability that the original Holmes and Moriarty had, but that was it. The Master rarely ever sought the Doctor out.

[Allan Surgite]

In response to the above, should we not call him...

Masteroriarty? Doesn't really roll off the tongue, though. :smalltongue:

[edit] In serious news, the DVD (hopefully with all three episodes) is to be released Aug 30th, apparently.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I may be forming a conspiracy theory that in return for stepping down as da chief of Doctor Who, Russel T. Davies made Moffat sign an agreement in blood to insert camp references into all his future work.

I did notice Cardif Museum in episode 2, which also popped up twice in this year's season of Doctor Who. It's kind of distracting when you see on TV a place where you've been twice that's not where the characters are supposed to be.

[factotum]

I think it's been confirmed that they're going to do another season of this--it's just finding a slot in Moffat and Gatiss's schedules to allow it to happen!

[Allan Surgite]

Watching The Great Game again I do like some of the little touches that I doubt were scripted (e.g. when Mrs. Hudson comes into the room a few minutes into the episode, Sherlock walks over the table to get to the window), which just make Sherlock more... Sherlock.

I'm also wondering how a hypothetical second set of episodes (since this seems to work a lot better in the "three ninety-minute movie" format better than most) would work; would it be working in Sherlock's past, take place in some "undiscussed cases" between The Study in Pink and The Great Game, or will they work around the cliffhanger of this series? Hmm.

[DomaDoma]

Of course they're going to resolve the cliffhanger! Yeesh. Especially as the thing with the Major's cat is going to be posted on The Science of Deduction eventually, and we can just take the rest as the kind of frustrating name-dropping that the original Watson did constantly.

[The Glyphstone]

I hope Hound of the Baskervilles gets the remake treatment in the second season, that was one of my favorite Holmes stories.

[factotum]

Not sure that one would work as well...the modern Holmes seems to be a creature of the city, he'd be out of place in the middle of a lonely moor.

[Allan Surgite]

You could probably find ways to contrive it to fit a city setting (e.g. footprints in concrete). If this is the short story I'm thinking of, since my memory is a bit spotty nowadays.

[The Glyphstone]

Not sure that one would work as well...the modern Holmes seems to be a creature of the city, he'd be out of place in the middle of a lonely moor.

Sure, but the moor wasn't really the pivotal part of the story, that was the demon dog...it ain't called Moor of the Baskervilles.:smallbiggrin: There's got to be a way you can adapt the plot to an urban setting.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

People in cities have dogs, although it must be said that a sizable part of that story comes down to the isolation of its setting, particularly with regards to how Holmes knows the identity of the killer.

[DomaDoma]

Given the amount of original material for A Study in Pink, I don't think things like the identity of the killer in the original story are much of an issue. If such an episode does come to pass, I'm definitely getting around to reading the thing beforehand, before all the comparisons wash in on TVTropes, but still. Moffat could find a way to put Hound of the Baskervilles in an urban setting.

[Allan Surgite]

Is Hound of the Baskervilles in one of the short story compilations? I have the first three (up to The Return of Sherlock Holmes), but I don't seem to recall Hound of the Baskervilles in any great detail. Would it be in the one I don't have, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

[Bryn]

Is Hound of the Baskervilles in one of the short story compilations?
Hound is a (fairly short) novel. It gets its own volume, at least in my set.