PDA

View Full Version : How to make an Evil Healer



Roga
2010-07-26, 03:22 PM
Hey guys, Making characters for an evil campaign and I've got to make a healer. It will be level 10, light templates are allowed. WoTC and Dragon are available.

I looked at some of my favorite healer build, but they're not compatible with an evil alignment. Healer Core class requires any good, while classes like Radiant servant of Pelor requires Neutral Good. I can be Neutral, but since I'm traveling with Evil characters I can't really be good for long.

Any good ideas? Thanks in advance.

Escheton
2010-07-26, 03:24 PM
Have the entire party take the tombtainted soul feat. They are then healed by negative energy. Or have them be undead. Necropolitan would be good.
Dread necro make good evil healingbots with the right negative energy exploding undead feats.
Otherwise, be a cleric and just prepare healingspells.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-26, 03:26 PM
Just go evil cleric and take a bunch of feats not alignment restrictive to up the healing. Couldn't you also go neutral cleric or would that throw off the dynamic of the group?

jiriku
2010-07-26, 03:30 PM
This may seem trite, but...play a cleric. Prepare healing spells. Carry some healing wands. You don't need to be able to spontaneously convert cures in order to heal, and an evil alignment doesn't prevent you from channeling casting spells that manipulate positive energy.

Coidzor
2010-07-26, 03:32 PM
Have the entire party take the tombtainted soul feat. They are then healed by negative energy. Or have them be undead. Necropolitan would be good.

Dread necro make good evil healingbots with the right negative energy exploding undead feats.

Also, out of combat healing for free with their negative energy touch attack.

Anyhoo, even if you're all positive-energy fueled, most healing is by wand of lesser vigor anyway, rather than empowered maximized cure spells or spontaneously cast ones. :smallwink:

hamishspence
2010-07-26, 03:34 PM
This may seem trite, but...play a cleric. Prepare healing spells. Carry some healing wands. You don't need to be able to spontaneously convert cures in order to heal, and an evil alignment doesn't prevent you from channeling positive energy.

It prevents you from channelling it as Turn/Destroy undead though. Evil clerics always get Rebuke/Command Undead instead.

archon_huskie
2010-07-26, 03:35 PM
Agreed. You really have a lot of options here. Your character could just be an evil gnome fighter who stockpiles scrolls and wands and has a lot of ranks in heal.

Giggling Ghast
2010-07-26, 03:37 PM
I have no idea if this is mechanically possible, but would an "evil healer" be someone who draws life energy from opponents/hapless victims and uses it to heal himself/his comrades?

Lysander
2010-07-26, 03:39 PM
Be an evil beguiler who keeps a dominated lawful good cleric as a slave under perpetual mind control to heal his team.

Coidzor
2010-07-26, 04:02 PM
It prevents you from channelling it as Turn/Destroy undead though. Evil clerics always get Rebuke/Command Undead instead.

So, hey, better class features! :smallcool:

CubeB
2010-07-26, 04:11 PM
Or you could be a cleric of the Burning Hate, if you really wanted to spontaneously convert Cures.

JeenLeen
2010-07-26, 04:11 PM
I would ask your DM if classes like Combat Medic or Radiant Servant of Pelor could be refluffed and have the alignment restriction removed. An idea of "heal them so they can suffer more later" or "help the forces of evil live to fight another day" is fine.

If not, the advice given above works.

In-combat healing becomes ineffective (except for Heal spells) after the early levels; by level 10 having a few spells prepared for emergency heals is nice, but usually not worth it. Out-of-combat healing using wands is best: 750 gp for a Wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor.
If you do go the wand route, this is nice in that you do not have to play a Cleric if you don't want to; just a 1-level dip will give you access to wand usage. (Although Cleric is a Tier 1 class, so at least power-wise it is useful.)

A Dread Necromancer with a Tomb-Tainted Soul or undead party is a good deal, although it requires them to all use a feat and prevents them from receiving normal healing.

Do you have any particular idea for your character's background and combat abilities that you wish to aim for: full spellcaster offensive, field control, melee ability, buff into Clericzilla, etc?

subject42
2010-07-26, 04:18 PM
You could also use the spontaneous domain channeling ACF and take the healing domain. That would let you be an evil cleric that gets access to better spontaneous healing spells than the good cleric.

Da Beast
2010-07-26, 04:44 PM
I think PHB2 has a druid ACF that lets you spontaneously heal instead of casting summon nature's ally.

Draz74
2010-07-26, 04:48 PM
Egoist/Sangehirn or Ardent/Sangehirn. Yay for no alignment restrictions on most psionic classes!

Roga
2010-07-26, 04:52 PM
Well, Tomb tainted soul isn't an option. We're kind of a rogue's gallery assembled for a cause. We didn't know each other beforehand. My character is a Transmuter 5/War Weaver 5/Sand Shaper 1. I have leadership feats that net me a level 10 cohort. The cohort is who I'm building as the healer. So I'm not concerned if the build is a little boring, as long as it's effective. I don't want it to steal the spotlight.

So if I have to go basic Cleric, what feats/options, other then Augment Healing, should I pursue?

stenver
2010-07-26, 06:07 PM
NO NEED TO BE A HEALER!

Just be a cleric with persistent mass lesser vigor.

There, now be whoever you want. The party is automaticly stabilized and at the end of the encounter, fully healed. Best healer ever. Mid-combat healing is ineffective anyway, unless its a "Heal" spell, which you can prepare, as a cleric

The Glyphstone
2010-07-26, 06:10 PM
Well, Tomb tainted soul isn't an option. We're kind of a rogue's gallery assembled for a cause. We didn't know each other beforehand. My character is a Transmuter 5/War Weaver 5/Sand Shaper 1. I have leadership feats that net me a level 10 cohort. The cohort is who I'm building as the healer. So I'm not concerned if the build is a little boring, as long as it's effective. I don't want it to steal the spotlight.

So if I have to go basic Cleric, what feats/options, other then Augment Healing, should I pursue?

Healing Devotion? Don't know what it does, but it might be worth it.

Ernir
2010-07-26, 06:51 PM
Nothing mechanical to add (for once), but for an RP inspiration for an evil healer, I hope you have seen the ST:Voyager episode Nothing Human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crell_Moset). :smallamused:

Coidzor
2010-07-26, 06:58 PM
Healing Devotion is like...Lesser Vigor from a 0th level cleric that requires either 1 or 2 turn undead attempts in order to use it on someone else. Well, at 10th level it would be fast healing 3 instead of fast healing 1.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-26, 07:11 PM
Pretty much everything that can be said has been already, so I'll just give you some RP inspiration.

This is how you make healing evil. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5/25/)

Greenish
2010-07-26, 08:22 PM
Healing Devotion is like...Lesser Vigor from a 0th level cleric that requires either 1 or 2 turn undead attempts in order to use it on someone else.Giving Healing Devotion to someone else only takes one TU attempt. It can also be activated as Immediate Action and automatically activates when your health drops to 0 or below.

It's not out of combat healing, but at lower levels it's a nifty failsafe.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-26, 08:35 PM
If you want to specifically be EVIL in your healing?

Complete Mage: Summon Elemental Reserve feat. An unlimited supply of living targets.
Magic Item Compendium: Vampiric Weapon Property. +2 equivalent, target soaks an extra 1d6 damage, which is transferred to the wielder as healing.
PHB: Speak Language: Auran, Ignan, Terran, or Aquan: You want to spend 2 skill points on at least one of those, or have a positive Int mod and pick one up as a bonus language.

When you're injured, you wield your vampiric weapon, summon an elemental, and beat on it until one of:
1) It dies.
2) The duration runs out.
3) You're fully healed.
In the case of 1 or 2, you use Summon Elemental again, and repeat.

When one of your companions is injured, you lend them your vampiric weapon, summon an elemental, and have your injured companion beat on it until one of:
1) It dies.
2) The duration runs out.
3) Your companion is fully healed.
In the case of 1 or 2, you use Summon Elemental again, and repeat.

Now, this is non-combat healing. But really, non-combat healing is what you want, when it comes down to it. Healing in battle is *usually* a losing proposition - except when:
1) It's to stabilize a dying companion (and in many cases, it's a losing proposition even then)
2) You're actually using the spell, Heal (and in many cases, it's a losing proposition even then)

Oh yes, and you can do this as a Wizard, Sorcerer, or even a Bard, if you like. Not just a Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, or similar.


Why is this an Evil method of healing?
Elementals are intelligent creatures.
Summoning effects actually pull an elemental to you - it's a real elemental from somewhere, not just a magical construct.
Sure, when the spell's over, it goes home, back as it had been (if you kill it, it comes back 24 hours after....) but nothing says it doesn't remember it.
The nightmare of being hit, over and over and over again, by a madman intent on stealing it's life energy. And being magically compelled to just stand there....

BooNL
2010-07-27, 01:28 AM
You could also use the spontaneous domain channeling ACF and take the healing domain. That would let you be an evil cleric that gets access to better spontaneous healing spells than the good cleric.

This, especially if you're only making a cohort.

Coidzor
2010-07-27, 01:56 AM
Giving Healing Devotion to someone else only takes one TU attempt. It can also be activated as Immediate Action and automatically activates when your health drops to 0 or below.

It's not out of combat healing, but at lower levels it's a nifty failsafe.

Ahh, it sounded like it took a round to activate it then a second round to transfer it. Could've sworn I saw the word another when I was reading through it. If it's only one turn attempt, then, well, not too shabby considering it's a 30 hp out of combat heal.

Randel
2010-07-27, 02:22 AM
Ideas:

1). Play as an artificer and deck yourself out with Healing Belts from the MIC. Then feel free to be an evil Doctor Frankenstein and maybe go into Renegade Mastermaker or whatever else you may want.

2). Bard with Perform(Surgery)... just kidding (not really).

3). Have everyone go tomb tainted soul, then use Divine Metamagic(Fell Animate) along with Destructive Retribution to let you turn creatures you kill into zombies that explode with negative energy when they die. Get an area attack and kill a bag full of puppies. Then have your zombie puppies jump into melee to attack the enemies. If the zombie puppies die then they explode and heal your comrades.

4). Play a regular Cleric but use an alternative class feature from either Players Handbook 2 or something else in which you can have your Cleric spontaneously cast spells from one of their domains instead of doing the cure/inflict wounds thing that good/evil clerics do. Just have one of your domains be Healing and you not only get to kick puppies and steal candy from children while healing but you get a bonus to the amount of healing you do. You can be Evil while still being a better healer than a good guy. I think the Healing domain with that trick also lets you spontaneously cast regeneration or some other cool healing spells.


5). I'm not sure, but I think there is one of those Reserve Feat things that lets you use a weaker version of a spell continuously while you keep one copy of the spell in reserve. Anyway, I think there is a reserve feat that lets you slowly heal your allies up to half their HP as long as you have a decent healing spell in reserve... might look into it anyway if you want to keep everyone half-alive for free but charge them if they force you to use up one of your pricey spell slots (cause you're evil).

JeenLeen
2010-07-27, 08:32 AM
In your world, can Clerics be clerics of an ideal or cause instead of a given god?

If so, have them be devoted to perserving the forces of evil, so applicable domains could be Evil, Healing, and whatever else you want.

For a simple healbot cleric, I'd recommend
Cloistered Cleric 5, Healing Domain with the ACF from PHBII for Spontaneous Domain Casting. You can now spontaneously cast any Healing Domain spell instead of 'Inflict' spells. This lets you sponataneously cast many Heals and other useful spells, which is very good.

Trading Knowledge Domain from Cloistered Cleric (which can be trade for Knowledge Devotion if you wish) gives you extra Knowledge skills, which can help if your party is lacking in any particular lore.

Then go into whatever PrC fits well or straight Cleric if you want the cohort simple. I'd recommend Contemplative or Divine Oracle.

The above build has less martial power than a normal cleric (assuming no Clericzilla buffing) and much utility, making it a good character to have in the background. Adding on that Summon Elemental reserve feat and a Vampiric weapon is also nice, as those can give a lot of utility as well. In addition to healing, they can be good trapfinders (by setting them off) and Earth elementals can burrow, making them excellent scouts.

Person_Man
2010-07-27, 11:04 AM
Play an Evil Crusader. Pick up a weapon that deals 1 point of damage (any sufficiently small weapon will work). Go into Martial Stance or whatnot to heal an ally every time you hit someone. Stab your friends repeatedly. Each time you stab them, they take 1 point of damage but are healed 2 points by your stance.

Although it's not the most efficient form of healing, it is very sadistic, and unlimited.

Ernir
2010-07-27, 11:18 AM
Play an Evil Crusader. Pick up a weapon that deals 1 point of damage (any sufficiently small weapon will work). Go into Martial Stance or whatnot to heal an ally every time you hit someone. Stab your friends repeatedly. Each time you stab them, they take 1 point of damage but are healed 2 points by your stance.

Although it's not the most efficient form of healing, it is very sadistic, and unlimited.

If that is allowed to work, you could even flavour it as primitive surgery. :smalleek:

"It seems our friend here has been wounded. Hand me my scalpels..."

Toliudar
2010-07-27, 11:24 AM
I saw a pixie crusader (don't ask) use the trick Person Man is describing by punching someone over and over again, shouting "This is hurting me more than it's hurting you!"

DwarvenExodus
2010-07-27, 11:36 AM
3). Have everyone go tomb tainted soul, then use Divine Metamagic(Fell Animate) along with Destructive Retribution to let you turn creatures you kill into zombies that explode with negative energy when they die. Get an area attack and kill a bag full of puppies. Then have your zombie puppies jump into melee to attack the enemies. If the zombie puppies die then they explode and heal your comrades.


:smalleek:

I bow down to you good sir.

Morph Bark
2010-07-27, 11:38 AM
If that is allowed to work, you could even flavour it as primitive surgery. :smalleek:

"It seems our friend here has been wounded. Hand me my scalpels..."

Hey, it's the basis of Trauma Team: Surgery in the Dungeon.

Also, I've seen that through feats you can make each of those strikes heal 14 damage instead of just 2. Extra nifty, I'd say.

Escheton
2010-07-27, 12:12 PM
Hey, it's the basis of Trauma Team: Surgery in the Dungeon.

Also, I've seen that through feats you can make each of those strikes heal 14 damage instead of just 2. Extra nifty, I'd say.

mind taking the effort and looking up what those where?
Dying to know. Really, my char might die if I don't know.

Morph Bark
2010-07-27, 12:17 PM
mind taking the effort and looking up what those where?
Dying to know. Really, my char might die if I don't know.

Luckily, for such things, I save threads in my favourites if they have nice homebrew or optimization ideas in theam. Links to the rescue!

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160183)'s the thread I saw it in.

Randel
2010-07-27, 12:42 PM
:smalleek:

I bow down to you good sir.

The good thing is that you can replace puppies with any low-HP monster you can get easily kill with your metamagiced area attack. Rats, rats, cats, chicken, sheep, fairies, orphans, commoners, prisoners, etc... if you're running low on exploding packets of negative energy to heal your allies with then just grab whatever harmless little creatures are conveniently on hand and turn them into exploding zombies.

I mean, which is a better use for your zombie horde? Having them stumble along in a group with their low HP and crummy attacks, or blow them up to heal the evil Tomb Tainted killing machines that are your fellow PCs?

Better idea? Get Explosive Runes (possibly by having the Rune domain or similar) and then put Fell Animate metamaiked explosive runes wherever you feel like it. If someone reads it accidentally then it explodes and hurts them, if they die then they become a zombie that explodes with negative energy when destroyed!

Thus, pile a bunch of explosive runes all over the place in (in)convenient locations and have curious commoners die horribly and turn into zombies, then have them march all the way to you and use them as fodder for setting off traps or just exploding to heal your allies.

If you are clever enough with spreading your zombifying explosive runes then the only limit to the number of zombies you can create is how many people read the newspaper or any other written word. Maybe even build a trap that casts Fell Animate Metamagiced Explosive Runes on whatever piece of paper is put in it. Then set it up to cast explosive runes on all the newspapers at a printing shop, or make fliers and spread them all over the countryside.

Pretty soon, you'll have all the negative energy you need to keep your Tomb Tainted allies healthy (and possibly some law enforcemet officers to help them level up).

I wonder if you would get any XP for spreading Explosive Runes through the newspaper?

Caphi
2010-07-27, 12:46 PM
Play an Evil Crusader. Pick up a weapon that deals 1 point of damage (any sufficiently small weapon will work). Go into Martial Stance or whatnot to heal an ally every time you hit someone. Stab your friends repeatedly. Each time you stab them, they take 1 point of damage but are healed 2 points by your stance.

Although it's not the most efficient form of healing, it is very sadistic, and unlimited.

You can get a bit more efficiency out of it if you can cause the Devoted Spirit healing Strikes to cycle though your readied maneuvers while you're doing it. Fill the rest of the magazine with Counters for when your ally tries to punch you for stabbing him.

jiriku
2010-07-27, 01:03 PM
Well, Tomb tainted soul isn't an option. We're kind of a rogue's gallery assembled for a cause. We didn't know each other beforehand. My character is a Transmuter 5/War Weaver 5/Sand Shaper 1. I have leadership feats that net me a level 10 cohort. The cohort is who I'm building as the healer. So I'm not concerned if the build is a little boring, as long as it's effective. I don't want it to steal the spotlight.

So if I have to go basic Cleric, what feats/options, other then Augment Healing, should I pursue?

I'd recommend the Imbue Healing feat and the Healing domain. The extra temp hp are like bonus healing, further increasing effectiveness of all your healing spells.

"In-combat healing is a waste of time" is the conventional wisdom, but if you can boost your healing sufficiently, you can turn that conventional wisdom upside down. With Augment Healing + Imbue Healing + Healing Domain, a darts of life spell or a healing spirit can heal as much damage as a heal spell with more flexibility at greater range with a lower-level spell slot, and your allies can use healing circle as a mid-level replacement for the healing belt (they can activate it with a standard action, just as with a healing belt, but it heals on average twice as much damage). Complete Champion is really your go-to source for healing options that are actually effective in combat.

Person_Man
2010-07-27, 01:54 PM
mind taking the effort and looking up what those where?
Dying to know. Really, my char might die if I don't know.

M-Bark links to Veovius who suggests using the Theraputic Mantle Soulmeld, which improves any healing spell or effect by Spell Level + (essentia invested * 2) points, for any healing spell or effect that targets you. So while it helps you out a little, it's not really helpful for healing your friends.

But if you want to go the vampiric healing route, you're much better off with your standard King of Smack (Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire). It's much more efficient (for you, at least).

Escheton
2010-07-27, 03:29 PM
stances and maneuvers don't have spell levels do they? then how does that work?
I also don't see how one can invest more then 2 essentia in it as a lvl 3 incarnate

Urpriest
2010-07-27, 03:55 PM
As another option, consider a Hellfire Ur-lock (Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 2/Hellfire Warlock 1). Have your cohort worship a non-evil god and you get an ally who hits your friends with a glaive of hellfire in order to heal them.

Person_Man
2010-07-27, 05:17 PM
stances and maneuvers don't have spell levels do they? then how does that work? I also don't see how one can invest more then 2 essentia in it as a lvl 3 incarnate

You are correct. The bonus for healing provided by a stance would simply be Essentia Invested * 2. Your essentia capacity improves with your Incarnate level and/or hit dice and/or with a magic item and/or with a feat.

So an Incarnate 3 with Martial Stance (which you can get via 2 feats or 1 level of Crusader) and Theraputic Mantle soulmeld, you'd end up healing 6 points of damage per successful attack (2 from Martial Spirit, 2*2 from Theraputic Mantle). At 6 hit dice your essentia capacity expands by one, so you'd be healing a total of 8 points points of damage per successful attack. At ECL 7-8ish you should be able to afford a Vampric weapon (heals 1d6 with each successful attack, which counts as a separate healing effect), and you'd be healing 1d6 + 6 + 2 + 6 points of damage per successful attack. I could stat it out all the way up to level 20 and show you how to get a dozen attacks a round, but you get the point.

Again, it's not as awesome as your standard King of Smack. But it's still pretty good, especially at low levels. And the Incarnate also has easy access to DR, SR, ER, Miss Chance, Evasion, retributive damage, and a variety of other boosts, and the Necrocarnate has access to theoretically unlimited essentia. It's actually a pretty awesome tank combo, now that I think about it.

ashmanonar
2010-07-27, 05:18 PM
Or you could be a cleric of the Burning Hate, if you really wanted to spontaneously convert Cures.

Oh yes you should.

Melayl
2010-07-27, 09:44 PM
If you (or your DM) allow homebrew, you could try this class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140211). I think it fits the bill of "amoral healer" as well as any.

Coidzor
2010-07-27, 10:27 PM
If you are clever enough with spreading your zombifying explosive runes then the only limit to the number of zombies you can create is how many people read the newspaper or any other written word. Maybe even build a trap that casts Fell Animate Metamagiced Explosive Runes on whatever piece of paper is put in it. Then set it up to cast explosive runes on all the newspapers at a printing shop, or make fliers and spread them all over the countryside.

I just got a great idea for a Blood of Vol plot from Eberron. Haha.

BTW, isn't there some weapon property that deals positive energy damage to undead/heals living creatures. Combined with the aforementioned 1 damage weapon that seems a potential combo for anyone.

Then again, I remember reading about it in the topic on the Burning Hate, so maybe that's something from 2e?

Rixx
2010-07-27, 10:39 PM
Step 1: Be evil

Step 2: Prepare healing spells

Step 3: Spend extra time learning how to cook a new dish

Roga
2010-07-27, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the replies gang, I think I'm gonna have to go with Cleric with DMM, and use Imbue with Spell ability to give some healing spells to the war weaver. Most of the magic item ideas, while cool, won't work since magic items are extremely limited. At level 10 we have 500g. Thanks again mates, and Rixx, I actually was learning how to cook a new dish.
Pastrami Wings! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB99TPZDW-g&feature=channel)

Rixx
2010-07-27, 11:47 PM
Thanks for the replies gang, I think I'm gonna have to go with Cleric with DMM, and use Imbue with Spell ability to give some healing spells to the war weaver. Most of the magic item ideas, while cool, won't work since magic items are extremely limited. At level 10 we have 500g. Thanks again mates, and Rixx, I actually was learning how to cook a new dish.
Pastrami Wings! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB99TPZDW-g&feature=channel)

Woah! Woah! What!? Woah!!

KingoftheTrees
2010-07-30, 10:12 PM
Has no one mentioned the Reserve Feat "Touch of Healing" (Complete Champion pg 62)? You heal 3x spell level of the highest conjuration (healing) spell that you have prepared, but only works up to half hit points. It also grants a +1 competence bonus on your caster level for any conjuration (healing) spell. Couple that with wands of Cure Critical and you can go almost all day.

Magic items you could use would be a Ring of Mystic Healing which grants you a +1 competence bonus on your caster level for all conjuration (healing) spells and has 3 charges/day which you can expend to grant an extra 2d6 (1 charge), 3d6 (2 charges), or 4d6 (all 3 charges) points of healing on your next cure spell cast before the end of your turn (swift action). (costs 3500 gp)
Also an Amulet of Retributive Healing lets you heal yourself an amount of healing that you gave to a teammate 3 times per day, as long as you could be healed by that amount. costs 2000 gp.

Oh and a REALLY good healbot is a Radiant Servant of Pelor with the ACF for Spontaneous casting from the Healing domain.... Free Maximized and empowered spells from the Healing domain at 16th level? Yes please! I'm playing one of these currently and my party members want to do whatever they can to keep me alive.

But in the spirit of the post, you can still be an evil cleric with Touch of Healing. That's what I would do. Especially if I had to bluff anyone into thinking I was a good cleric haha.

Coidzor
2010-07-30, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the replies gang, I think I'm gonna have to go with Cleric with DMM, and use Imbue with Spell ability to give some healing spells to the war weaver. Most of the magic item ideas, while cool, won't work since magic items are extremely limited. At level 10 we have 500g. Thanks again mates, and Rixx, I actually was learning how to cook a new dish.
Pastrami Wings! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB99TPZDW-g&feature=channel)

What are you, in Dark Sun?