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View Full Version : Deity of Binders needs Domain ideas.



Kobold-Bard
2010-07-27, 12:41 PM
Basically I am in the process of forging a God of Binding. I know technically according to the book Gods abhor Pact Magic, but there has to be a God (albeit a low DvR one) somewhere whom Binders can stand behind.

What three Domains do you think would fit best with this idea? I've got my eye on Rune and maybe Summoning from the Spell Compendium.

The God is currently N/E.

Thanks in advance,
K-B

Caphi
2010-07-27, 12:42 PM
Pact.

Actually, isn't there some domain for the sort of insanity that brought us the alienist?

Kobold-Bard
2010-07-27, 01:12 PM
Pact.

Actually, isn't there some domain for the sort of insanity that brought us the alienist?

Completely missed Pact, well that's one down :smallsmile:

Adumbration
2010-07-27, 01:17 PM
What I feel might fit:
- Mysticism (since pacts are... mystical)
- Pride (I've always thought the vestiges were snotty bastards)
- Retribution (most vestiges want payback)

And, of course, the aforementioned Pact domain.

Zombieboots
2010-07-27, 01:21 PM
I feel I should mention that in the Savage Tide Campaign by Piazo Magazine (Old Dragon & Dungeons) a piece of it was cut out and left on the cutting room floor. That was that: Wee-Jas does in fact shelter, teach, and encourage Pact Magic, since one of her favoured clerics accidently became a Vestige while defending her cause. That Vestige and Prestige class were also cut out. Wee-Jas is even LN/LE depending on campaign.

If you go hunting around the Piazo boards I'm sure you'll be able to find them, the post was made by James Jacob (Chief Editor). Many DM i've talked too still consider this tid-bit to be true at lest in ST campaigns. I pretty much extend the idea to all games I run as well.

I'm sure you'll still want to make your own god, with you know... domains that actually fit, but I thought you should know.

Mark Hall
2010-07-27, 01:30 PM
Perhaps Anubis? As of 2e's Planescape, Anubis resided on the Astral Plane, watching over the corpses of dead gods. Perhaps entreating Anubis would allow you to borrow some of their powers?

hamishspence
2010-07-27, 01:35 PM
What about a Binder who has ascended to godhood through, for example, dying heroically to save his nation, being greatly revered to the point of worship, and thus ascending as a god?

Like Uthgar in Forgotten Realms, only with a Binder and not a barbarian?

Or Tchazzar the Conqueror, who only appeared to die?

Mark Hall
2010-07-27, 01:49 PM
What about a Binder who has ascended to godhood through, for example, dying heroically to save his nation, being greatly revered to the point of worship, and thus ascending as a god?

Like Uthgar in Forgotten Realms, only with a Binder and not a barbarian?

Or Tchazzar the Conqueror, who only appeared to die?

Actually, Uthgar is an interesting case, and could work as a Binder. While he's portrayed as a great warrior, it's also known that he bound many powerful magical creatures to his service, which is who the various tribes pray to.

What if the Blue Bear was a Vestige who granted a portion of his power to Uthgar, who in turn granted it to his clerics? Shamans of Uthgar and Shamans of the Spirits Uthgar Conquered would be somewhat different... not the least because SoU would be clerics, and SotSUC would be Binders, in a pact with a totem spirit.

hamishspence
2010-07-27, 01:56 PM
I would have though Spirit Shamans from Complete Divine might have played a part.

Or maybe totemists- with a few of the chakra-binds adjusted to fit with the tribal totems.

However- a refluffing of Uthgar as a Binder/Barbarian, complete with new tribal totem vestiges, would be interesting.

Especially if his main vestiges are combat-centric, making him rather more formidable than the average barbarian.

zagan
2010-07-27, 02:20 PM
Very good idea making a god of binding as for domain well here's a few that might fit:
-Pact was mentionned.
-Exorcisme (EBS) because it allow to remove other creature that might try to influence the binder.
-Mental
-Mind
-Mysticism, all three could work for the mental connection.
-Rune for the seal
-Summoning was mentionned but despite the name I'm not sure it fit.
-Trade perhaps for the binder give a semblant of the life to the vestige in exchange for some power.

That's all I have for now.

arrowhen
2010-07-27, 02:23 PM
Any God of Binders definitely needs some kind of artifact comprised of Three Rings. :smallbiggrin:

Mark Hall
2010-07-27, 03:16 PM
Any God of Binders definitely needs some kind of artifact comprised of Three Rings. :smallbiggrin:

You should be ashamed of yourself. Hang your head in shame! :smallbiggrin:

Kobold-Bard
2010-07-27, 03:25 PM
What do people think of Domination (since you have to beat them into submission basically every time you bind them) or Envy (since mutual envy seems to be the foundation of Pact Magic)?

Draz74
2010-07-27, 03:39 PM
I would actually think the Madness Domain could be quite flavorful.


Any God of Binders definitely needs some kind of artifact comprised of Three Rings. :smallbiggrin:

*tortured facepalm/groan/chuckle hybrid*

Prime32
2010-07-27, 03:41 PM
I think Vecna would be pretty supportive of binding, being the god of secrets. Otherwise it seems odd to have a god for invoking unrelated beings scattered around reality (it would be hard for him to have much input).

zagan
2010-07-27, 03:56 PM
What do people think of Domination (since you have to beat them into submission basically every time you bind them) or Envy (since mutual envy seems to be the foundation of Pact Magic)?

Not sure for domination because they give you their power not matter the result of the binding check it just allow them a small influence on your action. As for Envy perhaps I'm not sure

DragoonWraith
2010-07-27, 04:05 PM
I really love the idea. A Binding domain doesn't seem unreasonable; allow it to Bind a single Vestige as a Binder of the Cleric's level? Seems about right. As for spells... hrm. Not sure.

Amphetryon
2010-07-27, 04:15 PM
Orcus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcus). Yes, I know he's a vestige as far as ToM is concerned. Let him ascend anew.

zagan
2010-07-27, 04:17 PM
I really love the idea. A Binding domain doesn't seem unreasonable; allow it to Bind a single Vestige as a Binder of the Cleric's level? Seems about right. As for spells... hrm. Not sure.

That seem really strong for a domain power, the bind vestige feat as a bonus feat perhaps ?

As for spell that's harder, a first level spell that trace one seal perhaps, one that augment your EBL for a few round, one that bind a vestige to you temporarely. One that summon one of the pact magic monster like deadly dancer or tooth beast ?

Amphetryon
2010-07-27, 04:24 PM
I really love the idea. A Binding domain doesn't seem unreasonable; allow it to Bind a single Vestige as a Binder of the Cleric's level? Seems about right. As for spells... hrm. Not sure.

1/2 Cleric level would seem to be closer to the typical baseline for a Domain power, in my opinion. -2cp

DragoonWraith
2010-07-27, 04:25 PM
That seem really strong for a domain power, the bind vestige feat as a bonus feat perhaps ?

As for spell that's harder, a first level spell that trace one seal perhaps, one that augment your EBL for a few round, one that bind a vestige to you temporarely. One that summon one of the pact magic monster like deadly dancer or tooth beast ?
The problem with Bind Vestige is that it's pretty bad. Seems to me that a lot of Domains allow you to get a weaker version of another class's abilities.

OK, how about this: "You can bind one Vestige as with the Bind Vestige feat, and for the purpose of that Vestige's granted abilities and for the purpose of Binding checks to avoid that Vestige's influence, your effective Binder level is equal to your Cleric level. You may bind any Vestige that a Binder of half your level could Bind."

You'd need to specify which granted abilities higher level Vestiges grant, though.


1/2 Cleric level would seem to be closer to the typical baseline for a Domain power, in my opinion. -2cp
Agreed; see above.

Prime32
2010-07-27, 04:30 PM
What about high-level spells which reduce the amount of time needed to bind a vestige to a single action?

Or a spell which lets you lose the benefits of a vestige in order to summon a creature based on it?

zagan
2010-07-27, 04:40 PM
The problem with Bind Vestige is that it's pretty bad. Seems to me that a lot of Domains allow you to get a weaker version of another class's abilities.

OK, how about this: "You can bind one Vestige as with the Bind Vestige feat, and for the purpose of that Vestige's granted abilities and for the purpose of Binding checks to avoid that Vestige's influence, your effective Binder level is equal to your Cleric level. You may bind any Vestige that a Binder of half your level could Bind."

You'd need to specify which granted abilities higher level Vestiges grant, though.


This seem complicate how about that instead, "You can bind one Vestige as with the soulbinding class feature of the Binder, your effective binder level is equal to half your cleric level for the purpose of determining which Vestiges you can bind, the effectiveness of their granted power and for your binding check."

Edit: As for spell, hum:

1st: Traces seal. Inscibre the seal use to summon oen vestiges on the ground.
2nd: Binding insight: Gain a bonus equal to half your caster level on your next binding check.
3rd: Reenergize Vestige: The next time you use a vestiges ability that can only be used once every 5 round, it can instead be reused in the next round.
4th: Augmented binding: Your effective binder level improve by 2.
5th:
6th:
7th:
8th:
9th:

No idea for the rest.

Zombieboots
2010-07-27, 05:21 PM
I think Vecna would be pretty supportive of binding, being the god of secrets. Otherwise it seems odd to have a god for invoking unrelated beings scattered around reality (it would be hard for him to have much input).

Pretty sure since Kas is a Vestige and all Binders binding him must attack followers of Vecna on sight. That Vecna's stance on Binders is pretty much the opposite of that.
But you never know, the silent one moves in strange ways.

I agree that Orcus should be supportive of Vestiges, I mean his "other half" IS one.

Also the Cleric domain for "Binding" should prehaps include at lest one of the two official Vestige spells from ToM: Detect Vestige, and Vestigewrack.

Kobold-Bard
2010-07-27, 06:06 PM
Seal Domain

Granted Ability
Your Effective Binder Level is half your Cleric Level. Each day you may bind a single Vestige available to a Binder of your Effective Binder Level. This functions as the Soul Binding class feature in all other ways, though you may not bind multiple Vestiges through this ability.

Seal Domain Spells
1. Detect Vestige
2. Vestigewrack
3. Deceive Reality
4.
5. Rebind Vestige
6.
7.
8. Master of the Beyond
9.

Deceive Reality: Swift Action to cast. If you cast this in the same round you use a Vestige ability that requires you to wait, you can instead ignore the wait time ad use it again as if you hadn't used it this round.

Rebind Vestige: You may expel 1 current vestige and rebind a new one as a single Full Round action. You must make a rushed Pact with the new Vestige and the expelled Vestige refuses to answer your call for 24 hours afterwards.

Master of the Beyond: Lasts 10 mins/level. You gain several benefits whilst under this spell:
- You automatically succeed on Binding checks.
- All of your Vestige abilities that require you to wait now require one round less before they can be used again
- Your DC for Vestige abilities increases by 2.

-----------
Just some quick thoughts. Whaddaya think?

DragoonWraith
2010-07-27, 06:08 PM
I feel like you've given Deceive Reality much too high a level for the effect; you burn a spell slot every time you do this, that's a low-level effect, IMO. An XP cost would just be ridiculous, I think. I'd put it at 3rd, personally.

Kobold-Bard
2010-07-27, 06:10 PM
I feel like you've given Deceive Reality much too high a level for the effect; you burn a spell slot every time you do this, that's a low-level effect, IMO. An XP cost would just be ridiculous, I think. I'd put it at 3rd, personally.

Cool, I am awful at judging stuff like that.

Prime32
2010-07-27, 06:21 PM
Pretty sure since Kas is a Vestige and all Binders binding him must attack followers of Vecna on sight. That Vecna's stance on Binders is pretty much the opposite of that.Kas is not all vestiges. Besides, I'm sure he'd still be interested in how his old enemy is doing.

You think Vecna would let Kas keep the methods he's using to stay around a secret from him?

Demons_eye
2010-07-27, 07:16 PM
Spell Idea:

Vessel of the vestige
Last one round per level

You gain one ability from every vestige you can currently bind for the duration of the spell. As a side effect of this spell you must show the sign of each vestige you use.

zagan
2010-07-28, 07:41 AM
Seal Domain

Granted Ability
Your Effective Binder Level is half your Cleric Level. Each day you may bind a single Vestige available to a Binder of your Effective Binder Level. This functions as the Soul Binding class feature in all other ways, though you may not bind multiple Vestiges through this ability.

Seal Domain Spells
1. Detect Vestige
2. Vestigewrack
3. Deceive Reality
4.
5. Rebind Vestige
6.
7.
8. Master of the Beyond
9.

Deceive Reality: Swift Action to cast. If you cast this in the same round you use a Vestige ability that requires you to wait, you can instead ignore the wait time ad use it again as if you hadn't used it this round.

Rebind Vestige: You may expel 1 current vestige and rebind a new one as a single Full Round action. You must make a rushed Pact with the new Vestige and the expelled Vestige refuses to answer your call for 24 hours afterwards.

Master of the Beyond: Lasts 10 mins/level. You gain several benefits whilst under this spell:
- You automatically succeed on Binding checks.
- All of your Vestige abilities that require you to wait now require one round less before they can be used again
- Your DC for Vestige abilities increases by 2.

-----------
Just some quick thoughts. Whaddaya think?

Detect vestige and vestigewrack are nice but they are on the cleric spell list so you don't need the domain to prepare them. While it's the case for a lot of domain spell, I'm not sure it's worth it to include them.

Anyway another spell idea:

6. Summon Vestige incarnation: As summon monster VI but you can only summon the following creature, 1 Deathshead or 1 Tooth Beast or 1d3 Horned beast or 1d4+1 Deadly dancer or 1d4+1 Roving Mauler.

hamishspence
2010-07-28, 08:11 AM
Kas is not all vestiges. Besides, I'm sure he'd still be interested in how his old enemy is doing.

You think Vecna would let Kas keep the methods he's using to stay around a secret from him?

The clergy of Vecna helped found the Order of Seropeanes- which specializes in hunting binders down. Though the Order was later repudiated by the founding faiths, it's still supported in secret.

I suppose Vecna could play both sides of the fence- researching binding on one hand while suppressing it on the other. Or captured binders might be spirited away to secret dungeons by the clergy of Vecna, for Horrible Experiments.

Prime32
2010-07-28, 08:19 AM
He probably just doesn't want anyone else using it.

Zombieboots
2010-07-28, 03:36 PM
Hmn, Tenebrous still IS considered a god. Tome of Magic Side bar says he (or something else...) grants his clerics: Evil, Choas, Death, & Trickery. Tenebrous is NE.
Didn't realize there were so many divinely powers that already support binders.

Edit: Also a fair number of spells.

Cleric list:
1st - Detect vestige
2nd - Vestigewreck
3rd - Summon Swarm (Murder of Crows / Pitying of Doves)
4th - ???
5th - ???
6th - ???
7th - Create Undead (DeathsHead)
8th - ???
9th - ???

hamishspence
2010-07-28, 03:41 PM
He's a bit of both- a god and a vestige.

Hmm- maybe some other god-vestiges could exist?

Sydonai
2010-07-28, 09:41 PM
The Howler In The Dark is probably a god in it's own right, the "patron" deity of vestiges if not binders.

Zaq
2010-07-28, 09:48 PM
Isn't there some kind of Sense or Sensation domain? My understanding is that vestiges primarily want to just feel what it's like to live and die again, so that would seem logical to me.

Thurbane
2010-07-29, 02:59 AM
Cleric Domain List (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/domains.html)

I would also throw Portal domain into the mix...

If you're going to go for an ascended mortal as god of binders...how about Syfal himself?