Small talk. What is that, I don't even... (Rant)

[drakir_nosslin]

Today I was once again stunned by my own inability to understand the idea behind certain features of our society, namely small talk. Now, before I continue, let me just say that I don't think that I have the ability to explain exactly how I feel in written language, especially not in one that isn't my native, but I'll give it a try.


The thing that I don't really get is the problem (a lot of) people seem to have with silence. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with it. It won't jump up and bite your behind or something. I promise.

My day has been a extremely good example of this, if I may say so. I work during this summer for a security company, mostly as a glorified (not so much) alarm system, sitting in in an uncomfortable chair the entire day staring at tv monitors and waiting for absolutely nothing to happen. For 8 hours. Yea, I know, it sounds boring and it is. It's only for the summer though, so I'll probably survive, horribly mind-scarred, but I'll pull through. Anyhow, since the vacation time is starting to end and people are getting back to work, my boss decided that since I'm no longer needed at the place where I've been all summer it's time to ship me out to new and strange frontiers (aka the office down the street), where I'll spend two days sitting next to a middle aged lady in a uniform two sizes too small learning how to answer the phone in a correct way (I'm not kidding, apparently a brain isn't required for this job, just the ability to stare and answer monotonous in a phone).

So, after two glaringly boring minutes where she explains how to push a button to get the monitors going (which I already know how to do, since they are identical to the once at the other/first office) and how to lift up the receiver and answer the phone politely, I'm already to relieve her of her job. I'm sure that you can all see the problem that now occurs; I'm supposed to be there for two frigging days! What on earth am I supposed to do? It's not like anything even remotely interesting happens, besides lunch and tea. But, to be honest, which I think is a good and admirable thing to be unless you don't want to, I don't care. If I get paid to just sit in a reasonably comfy chair and wait for the clock to go '4pm! Go home!' it's fine. Gives me plenty of time to figure out how to rule the world, or read the newspapers. In silence.

However, this doesn't seem to fit very well with my tea drinking-cookie eating-monster to a colleague. She insists on trying to start up conversations regarding the most infuriating obvious things.
'Nice weather outside', 'Not much happening today, is it?', 'Well, that was a pleasant cup of tea.', 'My gosh, my leg just fell off. How very odd.' and so on and on and on and on and on and...

At first I actually tried to reply to all these more or less intelligent comments or questions, but it soon started to bore me to death. I mean, come on. Yea, I'm sure it was a nice cup of tea, but it wasn't my cup of tea and neither is this conversation. It seemed to me that as soon as the air went silent for more than a half planck second she became almost obsessed with filling it with the sound of whatever happened to fill her mind at the time. And before you start retorting that she just tried to pass the time, I'll shoot that down like a clay pigeon the size of Hindenburg being hit with a dozen stinger missiles being fired by Chuck Norris. She had a perfectly functioning computer with internet access and when I asked her what she used to do she replied; (Freely translated) 'Surfing, mostly. Facebooking and such.'

Now, don't get me wrong, although I'm pretty sure that everyone will, since I doubt no one is going to read this far, I like conversations. But puhlease! Give me some substance, something to actually discuss. Filling the harmless silence with pointless statements about obvious things isn't really what makes time fly by like it had strapped on warp-drive inlines and a pink power ranger suit.

And yes, I tried to start up actual conversations, but it turned out that we had (surprisingly) absolutely nothing in common, so that was a massive waste of time, since no subject I tried was kept alive for more than five agonizingly slow seconds. In the end I gave up to try with subtle hints that I wasn't interested in talking, buried my head in a newspaper and replied with absentminded 'mmhmm':s after having declared that I easily got lost in my own thoughts when reading, and often even couldn't hear my cell phone ringing.


So, fellow groundplayers, what is it with people and small talk, and why does it seem so hard for some to actually sit in silence? How come that conversations that bring us, as a interacting pair, absolutely nowhere is considered polite?

Yes, I realize that this is probably not a problem that most experience, and again, I don't think that I'm capable of explaining my thoughts or feelings in a way that makes them justice (damn you evolution, why haven't we developed mass telepathy yet?), but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject, and perhaps even having a discussion about it (gasp!!)

Now, I'm off to have a coffee with my cousin and eat some chocolate, so go crazy, call me crazy, explain why I'm wrong in condescending ways, agree, disagree or just post 'first' tenletters. I'll be back in a couple of hours to see what this wall of text has mutated into.

Cheers!

[Pyrian]

It's called "extroversion" and it's more common than "introversion". We're mostly social animals by nature and most people are uncomfortable not interacting socially by nature and the internet for many people (generally not present on internet forums for obvious self-selection reasons) simply doesn't count.

[Dogmantra]

Sounds like you're having some nice weather over there. It rained today here.

But seriously, I wouldn't mind trying to start conversations if small talk wasn't so inane and slash or repetitive.

[Telonius]

I think the part you're missing is that small talk isn't supposed to lead anywhere, or have any point to it. It's supposed to be pleasant time-filler, and to express a sense of togetherness even if the two people have absolutely nothing in common. In certain places in the US (particularly for previous generations) you were expected to engage in it. (EDIT: Not sure how it is in Sweden, though I'd be surprised if something similar wasn't going on). Not doing so was seen as anti-social.

So what I think happened there was that she was probably trying to reach out, and each time she did, she was making you more and more upset. You ignored her more and more, making her unsure if she was being friendly enough, so she kept on chattering. She's probably just as frustrated as you are right now.

[Eldan]

While I detest pointless small talk just as much as you do, you have to realize that the actual words spoken are meaningless. The entire interaction is about tone of voice, body language and the general feeling of "that guy is paying attention to you" built up by it. Or, to make it short, the atmosphere built up. People feel comfortable when doing that.

[mangosta71]

I am, like the OP sounds, an introvert. Actual conversation is pleasant. But I'm inside; I don't care what the weather is like. It's one thing to talk to a friend who genuinely cares, but an acquaintance that's clearly feigning interest in my family, friends, life, etc. just for the sake of making noise offends me.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I am, like the OP sounds, an introvert. Actual conversation is pleasant. But I'm inside; I don't care what the weather is like. It's one thing to talk to a friend who genuinely cares, but an acquaintance that's clearly feigning interest in my family, friends, life, etc. just for the sake of making noise offends me.

Are you sure they're faking it?

I am mostly extroverted, and if I'm in a room with someone, I will make them talk to me, over anything I can. Its comforting to talk- its just how I bond or connect with someone, even if I hardly know them.

[Iruka]

In my experience, it is ideal to drift in a not-thinking state similar to meditation. Think of nothing at all,be relaxed and let your mouth do all the work. Most people don't notice, as long as you snap out of the trance when the conversation is over. :smallbiggrin:

[mangosta71]

Are you sure they're faking it?
It's in their tone of voice and facial expression. Someone that looks or sounds bored, yeah, they're faking it. Someone that starts chattering again if I don't start speaking as soon as the question is finished, maybe because I'm taking a breath so that I can answer the question, isn't really interested in the answer.

You, on the other hand, (once I filtered out the hyperactivity and random factor, anyway :smalltongue:) did sincerely want to know about those things. We also had enough common ground that we could have a pleasant chat about things that we were both interested in. And it seemed that you weren't so afraid of silence that you had to start talking about something else every time we hit a lull in the conversation.

[WalkingTarget]

I also dislike small talk.

In addition to simply filling time and (maybe) creating a sense of "togetherness" between people, I think silence makes a number of people uncomfortable (which may go along with the first two points). To be sharing a space with a person for any length of time, let alone during a time when neither is actively doing anything, builds tension that striking up a conversation might alleviate.

I understand this. I generally don't feel it myself and generally would prefer silence to meaningless chit-chat. I'm a decent listener, but I'm not good at the back-and-forth that a conversation requires if I have nothing to say.

[RabbitHoleLost]

It's in their tone of voice and facial expression. Someone that looks or sounds bored, yeah, they're faking it. Someone that starts chattering again if I don't start speaking as soon as the question is finished, maybe because I'm taking a breath so that I can answer the question, isn't really interested in the answer.

You, on the other hand, (once I filtered out the hyperactivity and random factor, anyway :smalltongue:) did sincerely want to know about those things. We also had enough common ground that we could have a pleasant chat about things that we were both interested in. And it seemed that you weren't so afraid of silence that you had to start talking about something else every time we hit a lull in the conversation.
That's usually because when we hit a lull in conversation, I passed out in the back seat, but I see your point, I guess =P
But, in general, I don't think the majority of small talkers do so because they are afraid of silence, but mostly because its considered the socially polite thing to do to acknowledge others, and that silence can often be interpreted as ignoring, which is, um, rude.

[Dr. Bath]

Pretty much.

http://i27.tinypic.com/30vy5pz.gif

It's fairly vital.

Small talk is the warm up to actual conversation, you gotta suck it up and then make the conversation good once you've got an inkling as to what they're like.

[drakir_nosslin]

I like multiquote. Just so you know.

And the coffee was good, the chocolate simply delicious and the company great. And yes, we did talk, but about things that mattered, what her (my cousin) plans for the autumn was, where she was moving, what I was going to do the upcoming semester. Things that actually mattered to us both, since we keep in contact. Not once did we touch upon such things as weather, or the color of the floor or how odd it was that all tea cups except one were white.

And now for some actual replies. (With personal opinions everywere. YMMV)


It's called "extroversion" and it's more common than "introversion". We're mostly social animals by nature and most people are uncomfortable not interacting socially by nature and the internet for many people (generally not present on internet forums for obvious self-selection reasons) simply doesn't count.

Yes, I realize that, otherwise we wouldn't be such a successful species, but small talk doesn't lead anywhere. It's so pointless, empty, it lacks whatever it is that makes a conversation interesting. I don't see the need to keep having a dialogue that actually makes me like the person I'm spending time with less. We could do something fun instead, like, solving crossword puzzles, learning to knit or stabbing forks in our eyes.


Sounds like you're having some nice weather over there. It rained today here.

But seriously, I wouldn't mind trying to start conversations if small talk wasn't so inane and slash or repetitive.

Yea, well. It rained here as well. Besides, I couldn't leave the office :/
But yea, small talk is repetitive. I don't know how many times I've replied to the same questions about my life, my family etc etc.


I think the part you're missing is that small talk isn't supposed to lead anywhere, or have any point to it. It's supposed to be pleasant time-filler, and to express a sense of togetherness even if the two people have absolutely nothing in common. In certain places in the US (particularly for previous generations) you were expected to engage in it. (EDIT: Not sure how it is in Sweden, though I'd be surprised if something similar wasn't going on). Not doing so was seen as anti-social.

So what I think happened there was that she was probably trying to reach out, and each time she did, she was making you more and more upset. You ignored her more and more, making her unsure if she was being friendly enough, so she kept on chattering. She's probably just as frustrated as you are right now.

People do it in Sweden too, and in Norway (that's where I am right now). To me, if you're feeling forced to small talk, then you're not comfortable in the situation you're in. To be able to sit quietly with someone and just exist signals to me that the person you're with knows that they are 'safe' with you. So, yea, she might have been unsure of herself, I wasn't, but I guess that might be because I didn't react like she thought I would. I see your point.


While I detest pointless small talk just as much as you do, you have to realize that the actual words spoken are meaningless. The entire interaction is about tone of voice, body language and the general feeling of "that guy is paying attention to you" built up by it. Or, to make it short, the atmosphere built up. People feel comfortable when doing that.

I see what you mean, but I don't understand why it is expected of me to pay her attention for 8 hours constantly. That's a bit much don't you think? Once we'd exchanged the normal pleasantries and established a working relationship, why go on? It doesn't fill a meaning. Attention for the sake of attention doesn't lead anywhere.

And just to assure everyone, I'm not unusually introvert. Many of my friends claim the opposite actually. I have no problem at all striking up conversations with total strangers, and I enjoy it. But, and this is important, I rarely, if ever, talk about the weather. Once I notice something about a person that I'm curious about, I ask. Wonderful way of starting a discussion. Once my curiosity is satisfied, I've no problem to say 'thank you for your time, I'll see you around' and move on. Sometimes this never happens, sometimes I say it after thirty seconds.


I am, like the OP sounds, an introvert. Actual conversation is pleasant. But I'm inside; I don't care what the weather is like. It's one thing to talk to a friend who genuinely cares, but an acquaintance that's clearly feigning interest in my family, friends, life, etc. just for the sake of making noise offends me.

Exactly, if I'm not interested, why fake it?


Are you sure they're faking it?

I am mostly extroverted, and if I'm in a room with someone, I will make them talk to me, over anything I can. Its comforting to talk- its just how I bond or connect with someone, even if I hardly know them.

The thing is that while I might be interested in your current life situation (sometimes I actually am), my point is, once we've bonded, many people feel a need to continue talking, even tough the conversation has since long run out of momentum. Beating a dead horse isn't pretty, even if you do it with words.


In my experience, it is ideal to drift in a not-thinking state similar to meditation. Think of nothing at all,be relaxed and let your mouth do all the work. Most people don't notice, as long as you snap out of the trance when the conversation is over. :smallbiggrin:

Man, I envy you. I can't do that, I even have a hard time playing background music when I'm alone since I must, for some strange reason, listen to every single word in the text. Instrumental music FTW.


I also dislike small talk.

In addition to simply filling time and (maybe) creating a sense of "togetherness" between people, I think silence makes a number of people uncomfortable (which may go along with the first two points). To be sharing a space with a person for any length of time, let alone during a time when neither is actively doing anything, builds tension that striking up a conversation might alleviate.

I understand this. I generally don't feel it myself and generally would prefer silence to meaningless chit-chat. I'm a decent listener, but I'm not good at the back-and-forth that a conversation requires if I have nothing to say.

Well, looks like we've got something in common then. Once I feel that I've said what I wanted I'm perfectly fine with just falling silent. Not appreciated apparently.

EDIT

Pretty much.

It's fairly vital.

Small talk is the warm up to actual conversation, you gotta suck it up and then make the conversation good once you've got an inkling as to what they're like.

But that's my point, I jump straight to the conversation and when I'm done I'm done. That's it. Come up with an interesting topic if you want to continue, otherwise I'm perfectly fine with being silent.

[Ponderthought]

The origin of small talk really isnt an issue; its going to happen. people are going to assault you with mindless drivel. Its what people do.

Use my solution: Smile and nod. make the occasional sweepingly general statement. Keep anything you say vague enough that it could be a response to any statement.

Or go completely random, feigning madness, to the point they no longer wish to speak with you.

personal favorites:
"That's what they say"
"oh?"
"But if you give zombies the vote, their just going to form a block."

[factotum]

I am mostly extroverted, and if I'm in a room with someone, I will make them talk to me, over anything I can.

I can assure you that if you were in a room with me you wouldn't be able to *make* me talk to you at all, unless you happened to talk about something that interests me! Can't stand small talk :smallsmile:. Although, admittedly, I have a problem hearing conversation over background noise anyway...but don't get me started on all these restaurants that feel the need to play rubbish music at 100 decibels when all I want to do is talk to my friends!

[ForzaFiori]

I'm with the OP. I dislike small talk, but I'm not really a huge introvert. Granted, I don't walk up to strangers and strike up a conversation, but around my friends, I have no problem with having a conversation. But I don't do small talk. I talk about something that interests me, and when that thread is done, one of 3 things happens: 1) a new topic comes up, 2) one of us leaves, or 3)There's a silence. Small talk is pointless, and so I don't do it. I'll respond to it, but usually just with a "yea" or "mmhmm" or something, until you say something interesting. Then you have my full attention. It's not so much the talking that bothers me, its the fact that it is for absolutely nothing.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I can assure you that if you were in a room with me you wouldn't be able to *make* me talk to you at all, unless you happened to talk about something that interests me! Can't stand small talk :smallsmile:. Although, admittedly, I have a problem hearing conversation over background noise anyway...but don't get me started on all these restaurants that feel the need to play rubbish music at 100 decibels when all I want to do is talk to my friends!

I bet you I could, sweetie.
If only because I'd get you talking about what interests you.

I am a master of the small talk.

[Philistine]

I can assure you that if you were in a room with me you wouldn't be able to *make* me talk to you at all, unless you happened to talk about something that interests me! Can't stand small talk :smallsmile:. Although, admittedly, I have a problem hearing conversation over background noise anyway...but don't get me started on all these restaurants that feel the need to play rubbish music at 100 decibels when all I want to do is talk to my friends!


I bet you I could, sweetie.
If only because I'd get you talking about what interests you.

I am a master of the small talk.
Dude. Do not bet against teh Rabbit. Srsly.

Take it from one who has been there and been steamrollered by that. :smalleek:

Very much less than three, Rabbithulhu dear. =D

[denthor]

If you really want to shut her down with small talk. Just say what amazing time you had playing Dungeuns and Dragons. I promise she will ask questions about the game after you answer she ask your company to transfer you. On the plus side she will never talk to you again.

I speak from experience points

[denthor]

I bet you I could, sweetie.
If only because I'd get you talking about what interests you.

I am a master of the small talk.

I am running the other way from you :smalleek:and I sold cars for 19 years I bow to you oh queen of small talk may I leave now?

[KenderWizard]

This can be such an amazing source of trouble between the Smalltalkers and the Staysilenters! I'm pretty easy to please, I'm usually happy to go along with smalltalk for a bit, and if the other person is incredibly boring, I'm pretty good at rambling on telling some story to keep them occupied. Then I'm usually pretty happy to sit quietly reading or drawing or something either. But my boyfriend doesn't do smalltalk, and one of my friends has decided to dislike him quite a bit because she thinks smalltalk is a crucial character trait.

Since you're stuck with this lady anyway, Mr OP, I think the best thing to do is to try take control of the situation. You've tried talking about things in common and come up with nil. Have you tried talking about random things? Something you find interesting, like biology, or the Japanese political situation, or plate tectonics? A newspaper can be a great way to start a conversation along the lines of "So, I was reading this really interesting article about the Brazilian rainforest...". Or, ask if she'd like to play a game or do a crossword with you. If you've got computers, you could play a simple boardgame online, or get a crossword and ask her for help with the clues (whether you need that help or not). Maybe if you were doing something together to pass the time, she wouldn't feel the need to natter about the prevailing weather conditions, and you would find it easier to talk, since you've got the game to talk about.

[Mando Knight]

I can assure you that if you were in a room with me you wouldn't be able to *make* me talk to you at all, unless you happened to talk about something that interests me!
Rabbit is a girl. A pretty good-looking girl, if I remember her posts on the You! threads correctly. You'd look like a jerk if you tried to ignore her.

I am mostly extroverted, and if I'm in a room with someone, I will make them talk to me, over anything I can. Its comforting to talk- its just how I bond or connect with someone, even if I hardly know them.
In some ways, I'm like the other piece of the puzzle: I don't mind talking with a fairly intelligent person (I can't stand utterly idiotic-sounding people. Well, I can, but half my mind yells at the other half, wondering why I'm still trying to be patient and kind like my parents taught me.), I just usually won't start a conversation unless I'm rather familiar with the person.

[factotum]

Rabbit is a girl. A pretty good-looking girl, if I remember her posts on the You! threads correctly. You'd look like a jerk if you tried to ignore her.


Why should her gender, or physical attractiveness, make a difference here? :smallconfused: I would ignore Scarlett Johansson if she came up to me and tried to engage me in conversation about the current state of the stock market or something like that...

[Xyk]

I'm finding myself increasingly patient of other mindsets (even the stupid ones). Despite my introversion, small talk is not an inherently bad thing. It helps others feel less uncomfortable and is not harmful to me in any significant way. Most of the time, I can change subjects to intelligent things.

Extrovert- "So how's the weather?"
Me- "Pretty awesome, how do you feel about the separation of church and state being revoked as a founding principle of the United States by the Texas schoolboard?"

:biggrin:

[Ponderthought]

Why should her gender, or physical attractiveness, make a difference here? :smallconfused: I would ignore Scarlett Johansson if she came up to me and tried to engage me in conversation about the current state of the stock market or something like that...

Because men are sometimes dim.


Extrovert- "So how's the weather?"
Me- "Pretty awesome, how do you feel about the separation of church and state being revoked as a founding principle of the United States by the Texas schoolboard?"

Row Row brother.

[rakkoon]

In general women usually make small talk because of socializing while men like to talk about a distinct subject. I'm very female in this regard since I don't mind small talk at all. Now if it is an older lady talking about her cup of tea all day long there might be a small tendency to decapitate her with a broken tea cup but I'm sure this won't happen on the first day.
...
Fairly sure

[Xyk]

Because men are sometimes dim.



Row Row brother.

Hah. It's typically a little more subtle than that. But it's like 2 am and I really am not thinking straight enough to write the whole thing out. Plus I think it's funnier this way.

[Superglucose]

I am, like the OP sounds, an introvert. Actual conversation is pleasant. But I'm inside; I don't care what the weather is like. It's one thing to talk to a friend who genuinely cares, but an acquaintance that's clearly feigning interest in my family, friends, life, etc. just for the sake of making noise offends me.
Ummm...

Are you sure they're faking it?
This.


It's in their tone of voice and facial expression. Someone that looks or sounds bored, yeah, they're faking it. Someone that starts chattering again if I don't start speaking as soon as the question is finished, maybe because I'm taking a breath so that I can answer the question, isn't really interested in the answer.

Specifically the third panel. (http://www.makemymood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/weird.jpg) Don't judge people's interest based on how you act when you're interested. I'll often interrupt people, ask questions at a high rate, even look absurdly bored while doing it.

I will do ALL OF WHAT YOU DESCRIBED and I am not "faking it." Not even slightly.



Me- "Pretty awesome, how do you feel about the separation of church and state being revoked as a founding principle of the United States by the Texas schoolboard?"


Me- "I don't like to talk about politics, is there perhaps another subject you're interested in?"

[Eldan]

I bet you I could, sweetie.
If only because I'd get you talking about what interests you.

I am a master of the small talk.

Well, at that point it's not really small talk anymore, it's a discussion. At least in my definition, small talk is "talking about pointless ****". If it's actually meaningful beyond establishing that you are here and wish to engage your mouth, i'ts a discussion.

[Quincunx]

Is it too late to claim that you're Finnish and never respond again? :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

I must admit that I've once pretended to from the Balkans (pretty common around here) and not able to speak a word of german. It helps.

[rakkoon]

Mmm, I only do that when people want to sell me something on the street in another country, just respond in your native language quietly and friendly while walking away*.

*This trick may not work for Americans :smallsmile:

[Badgerish]

My (slightly passive-aggressive) way to deal with this, is to respond to small talk with a short response to their question/statement then "and how can I help you?".

A) If there is something you can help them with, they can skip to the end. Both parties are happy.
B) If there isn't something you can help them with, it brings this (pretty damn important) point to their attention.
C) If they are self-aware enough to understand that they are just talking to fill the time, they can be honest about it. This means you can be honest and refuse IF you actually have better things to do.

[Eldan]

You underestimate the mixture of stupidity and stubbornness some people can possess. I've known people who would have been able to just continue talking about absolutely nothing about that, totally able to ignore whatever statement you made that didn't fit in their model of how the conversation should go.

[valadil]

Small talk isn't about avoiding silence. It's about avoiding awkwardness. Have you ever been in a situation where you feel like you should be talking but don't know what to say? Small talk to the rescue!

The difference between you and your coworker is that conversational silence makes her feel awkward. That's all that she's trying to avoid. Unfortunately it creates more awkwardness because you're more comfortable with silence than with small talk.

Once I understood that, small talk stopped bothering me (and I'm pretty damn introverted). Just go on autopilot and babble about the weather or the weekend (on monday and tuesday you can recount your last weekend, while weds-fri are all about looking forward to the weekend). If you're into sports, those are great for small talk. In fact I'm convinced that people watch sports just so they have a freebie small talk topic.

Is there any utility in it? No, not really, at least not on the individual level. You'll make someone else feel less awkward around you. Eventually it can pay off though. You may make friends or at least acquaintances through it though. Your coworker has no common interests with you, but eventually you'll find someone else who games or is going to the same concert as you or just picked up a copy of your favorite book.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Well, at that point it's not really small talk anymore, it's a discussion. At least in my definition, small talk is "talking about pointless ****". If it's actually meaningful beyond establishing that you are here and wish to engage your mouth, i'ts a discussion.

Yes, but how will I ever get to the point of conversation, if I don't toss out other things to see what interests you?
Small talk is all way of social pleasantries. "Hi, how are you? How's your family? How are you dealing with this weather, isn't it really hot? Are you going to school? Where and what for?" Sometimes, the last bit is substituted for "What do you do?"
And usually, after that, I getcha. The "What for" is the real opening hook into interests.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I bet you I could, sweetie.
If only because I'd get you talking about what interests you.

I am a master of the small talk.

If ever i'm in the same room as Rabbit I'd gladly talk to her. Even about things I hate or don't understand.
Because Rabbit's awesome like that.

Myself, I'm neither introverted or extroverted. I'm both at the same time.
So I can do small talk, it's a starting block to iump off into other, better topics.
It helps that most of my friends also aren't really that good at small talk as we seem to grab the first ESCAPE ROUTE out of it onto more interesting things.

Best time was from (and this is between three people here - me, Lawyer Friend and History Friend)
"How was your day?"
"Oh, it was okay, had an interesting lecture on ROman law."
"I did a little bit of that back in (UK) college."
"What was covered?"

An hour later

"Are you sure, because Sallic law is key for why the Hundred Years War and Henry V happened because - "
"Well yes, but if you take into account the socio-economic upheaval of the C14th then . . ."

Three hours later

"The Indian caste system is actually evident even in the surnames, I mean mine . . . ."
"That's amazing. Back in VIth form we had to read some of the Upanishads and -"

Two hours later.

"Whoa, it's three a.m. Where did the time go?"

Small talk is a necessary device; it can be more interesting than you think - especially if people elaborate on their responses, and more often than not it'll get you off into something interesting.

I have to say that while I may not like small talk, it's still fun, and most importantly, extremely useful. I'm all for it.

EDITed for colour.

[Little Bo Peep]

Small talk isn't about avoiding silence. It's about avoiding awkwardness. Have you ever been in a situation where you feel like you should be talking but don't know what to say? Small talk to the rescue!


Yes! I'm not a massive fan of small talk but sometimes it's vital to continue a dying conversation. There's been many a time that I've had to sit with a bunch of people I'm not familiar with and had to use small talk to ease the awkwardness.

I think it can make you look rude if you meet someone and don't bother with any small talk, but once pleasantries are exchanged I don't see why silence should be a problem.

[Maximum Zersk]

-Snip-

*Slow clap*

Pretty good, but not as off-topic as I can get. :smalltongue:

[Aiani]

I think I completely understand you Drakir, but not because I hate small talk so very much. It's because I'm a security guard and I understand just how boring security is. I'm at work right now and I'm surfing the net because there is nothing going on. I work in a room full of monitors with one other person and she is a friend of mine but even with a friend I would get tired if we talked for eight hours straight everyday. So we talk for a while and then we amuse ourselves with the internet for a bit and then maybe we talk some more. Now sometimes I have to work with another woman who I really don't get along with but I still want to be polite since we have to work together. When she is here I just bring up my dog because she has a dog too and we exchange cute doggy stories. The best thing you can do with this woman at work is keep trying to find something in common so you chat at least a little bit. I still wouldn't want to talk for eight hours though. I lost my voice once when I did that. Not cool.

[mangosta71]

Great excuse to not talk to someone, though. :smalltongue:

[Player_Zero]

Here's what I do: don't respond to anyone even when they talk at you. Go back to your daily business and ignore them completely.

I dare anyone to say they could get me to talk.

[Trog]

Talk without an opinion behind it never goes anywhere. Like character of a book you need a motivation for each to properly have dialogue. Small talk is the opportunity to throw your motivation into the mix. It is the pebble rolled down a snowy hill that can snowball into something more.

Having the motivation of "I find you to be beneath me" can kill the opportunity of having a conversation because it often turns the other person off. Still, some people feel uncomfortable with silence and will fill it with whatever. Typically in filling it though it is easy to find something that might spur on conversations... if the other person is willing, that is. I've struck up interesting and lengthy conversations with strangers before. I never remember what set any of them off but it was probably some random comment.

Perhaps even small talk.

Basically, I see nothing wrong with it unless I am trying to concentrate on something and get some work done and I find the level of conversation distracting. And even then I usually see the effort to make small talk with me to be a kindly one... unless the subject matter somehow dictates otherwise, that is.

[Tequila Sunrise]

So, fellow groundplayers, what is it with people and small talk, and why does it seem so hard for some to actually sit in silence? How come that conversations that bring us, as a interacting pair, absolutely nowhere is considered polite?
It sounds like your new coworker is a compulsive talker. As in, she possibly has a psychological fear of silence. I know it's annoying because I had a g/f like that once. Most people [Americans?] are uncomfortable with silence, but can handle it after some sort of discussion-breaker happens. (Picking up a newspaper, for example.) But some people just need to talk. All. The. Dam. Time. And the only thing that might work is to flat-out say "I like you, but I don't like small talk. Let me read my paper in silence."



Yes, I realize that this is probably not a problem that most experience, and again, I don't think that I'm capable of explaining my thoughts or feelings in a way that makes them justice (damn you evolution, why haven't we developed mass telepathy yet?), but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject, and perhaps even having a discussion about it (gasp!!)
Actually, a lot of people don't get small talk. I'm one of them; I don't like it and I'm not good at it. Though I have gotten better in recent years, due to my efforts to reach out to others.

[mangosta71]

It is the pebble rolled down a snowy hill that can snowball into something more.

You heard it here! Trog advocates throwing snowballs with rocks in them to shut people up! :smalltongue:

[Drascin]

Are you sure they're faking it?

Well, yes. About as sure as I am of most things, at least - from a philosophical standpoint, I don't like to say I'm sure of anything short of the factually obvious :smalltongue:.

Basically, anyone who stays for more than fifteen minutes without actually trying to latch into any topic and just keeps going on about meaningless weather/generic family/basic stuff babble is certainly faking interest to pass the time and avoid a silence they seem to think impolite and awkward. And I'm saying that because the other option would be to think they're dumb, which I don't like to think of people, when they're probably just trying - even if failing - to be polite. I have more than once smiled to someone who was obviously stretching the smalltalk so hard it was starting to recurve on itself, and told him that really, I honestly don't mind, if we're out of conversation topics it's not freaking sacrilegous to wait a bit until something interesting comes to our attention, I'm not offended by people not talking to me! This even has actually sparked an actual conversation a couple times about how silly it's for people to feel so violent about being in the same room as someone else in silence, politeness, social mores, and such other stuff.

In any case, OP, I can sympathize. I've never quite got the concept of silence being awkward. I like the silence. I can be most talkative when a subject that I can comment on comes up, but talking for the sake of talking is just... well, wearing everyone's throats out and derailing everyone's peaceful trains of thought for nothing, really.

[Karoht]

A friend of mine once said:
"Some people only talk to hear the sound of their voice. Some people only listen to know when it is again their turn to speak."

This is mostly how I feel about small talk.

Back when I worked at the bank, I endured small talk for 3 years. The majority of people, once I had their name and account number and had begun to process their transactions would fall into one of the following, without fail. By majority, I do mean 9 out of 10 people. I counted one day, made a chart and everything.
-How about the weather?
-Busy day?
-Quiet day?
-Plans for the weekend?
-Plans for (insert seasonal holiday)?

There were extremely few people who did not. What annoyed me most was not the small talk, it was the typical situations it came up in.

How about the weather?
It is a beautiful sunny day outside. I'm stuck in a bank with loud annoying smelly people who I'm sure are only in the bank just to have something to do. Especially the old people who would come in each and every day. I'm stuck inside, and will only leave when the weather is no good or when the sun goes down, because that's just how bankers hours work. So thank you for rubbing in the fact that yes, it is another nice sunny day outside that I don't get to enjoy so I can give you the balance of your account and 40 bucks cash, just like yesterday and the day before.
It's a horrible miserable day outside. And yes, people complain about the weather. Maybe when I was born some wizard perminancied the spell endure elements on me, because I honestly don't care what the weather is outside. I don't care if it's snow, sleet, hail, rain, cloudy and overcast, or sunny. Sure, I enjoy my sunny days like everyone else, but if it's pissing of rain outside what good does it do me or anyone else to complain? Moreover, what makes you think I want to hear about the miserable weather outside when I'm busy busting my hump to serve you?
And lastly, the part that annoys me most about people who small talk the weather. When you stood in line for 15 minutes, and likely witnessed every other person in line complain about the weather ahead of you, why did you not grasped that yes, indeed, we'd been over this topic. Likely multiple times. It's not clever or original. No one likes to answer the same question or discuss the same topic over and over and over again, particularly in the expanse of an 8 hour shift.


Busy Day?
So you somehow didn't notice that there were 15 people in line ahead of you when you came in? Did you somehow forget that you just spent 15-45 minutes in line?
What I love most is when people ask why it is so busy on this particular day. Somehow, when people are in a bank to depsit their paycheque, they don't stop and realize that hey, other people on planet earth have jobs, maybe the other 15 people in line have paycheques to drop off too. Perhaps it is a specific day every two weeks, maybe some kind of 'payday' or something of that nature. Maybe it's busy because the 15 people who are in front of you simply got from their job to the bank faster than you did.
Or the irony of ironies in a bank. People who come in to do month end deposits and own a business, and somehow don't clue in that all the other businesses in the area operate the same way they do, and thus are also in for month-end.
No word of a lie, I once had an entire bus full of people get out and walk into my branch, and guess what each person after the first asked to each and every teller? "Why so busy all of a sudden?" With a rude and angry tone no less. Gee, maybe it's the fact that 50 people just got off a bus at the same time, and walked into the same bank, and got into the same lineup...
To think I actually had to explain these things to people...


Quiet Day?
Just because it is quiet now, or you had a short line up when you came in, doesn't mean that it will remain quiet for any longer than the next 5 minutes. Just because it is quiet now, doesn't mean that it was quiet prior to you walking in the door.
Why do you think it's quiet on a monday morning in a bank? No one gets paid on a monday, and no one gets up extra early on a monday morning to go do banking business. Most other businesses open at the same time or slightly after we do, so that means no one has any business reason to come into the bank yet.
And really, this and 'busy day' are both condescending suggestions. Both imply that the tellers aren't doing enough or working fast enough or hard enough.


Plans for the ...?
Something I learned about telling people when you have time off. They'll suddenly think that they have to conclude their business with you prior to that time, otherwise it will not get done. IE, when I once told someone (who was packing up to leave) I was going away for two weeks, that person pulled out an extra deposit book and massive bundle of cheques, along with a wad of cash, and wanted me to deposit it. Because apparently the other tellers would all be magically incapable of performing a simple deposit without me being there, also begging the question, why the person didn't just deposit the stuff before I mentioned it?
Some people when they find out you have a trip to take, will try and give you a project, regardless of the fact that you are telling the person I WILL NOT BE HERE FOR THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. And for some mental reason, they want you to handle it. They won't allow anyone else to. So even if you could find someone else to handle it (and murphy's law says you likely will not find anyone willing to handle it), for whatever reason, that simply will not do.
Moreover, I'm not allowed to bring my outside of work personality to work with me, why the hell are you trying to drag it out of me at work?

[drakir_nosslin]

Well, it certainly seems like I'm not alone in this. While it does make me feel a bit less unique (Oh no!), it does feel a bit better to know that somewhere in the world there are people that I could share the silence with if we ever met.

Now I just need to find snowballs in the middle of summer and my problem should be solved, all according to mighty Trogs mighty plan. Mighty.

Oh, and another thing... Is it really so hard to come up with interesting topics? I mean, pointing out the obvious isn't going to get you very far conversation-vise, at least according to my experience, but that is what most people do :/

I guess that I'm just spoiled with lots of people around me that like to discuss things. Might have something to do with that I usually only hang out with academics, so people almost always have learned something new that they like to share.

[mangosta71]

I can already see the responses lining up.

Small talk starts with something obvious, so if you want to turn it into a conversation about an interesting topic you have to respond in an unusual or unexpected way. If you've ever wasted a few hours on wikipedia, you should have an idea what I mean - you start on one topic, find a link to something else, which leads to something else, etc. until you're reading about stuff that has absolutely no relation to whatever you looked up in the first place.

Of course, a lot of unusual/unexpected responses will also stop any conversation outright.

[Trog]

Well, if you phrase the traditional small talk subjects in new ways it should, in theory, allow you to progress beyond small talk in one form or another. I mean, which statement would incite you into more of a light banter-y conversation:

"This isn't the weather I was expecting today."

or

"Among famous traitors of history one might mention the weather." - Ilka Chase

Anyone else have any good small talk alternative questions? Or rocks, barring that? :smalltongue:

[Quincunx]

Conservation of energy. Some people just don't want to expend mental energy in conversation, and make small talk. Some people don't want to spend the mental energy that keeping the talk banal requires, and don't want to make small talk.

[Karoht]

Well, if you phrase the traditional small talk subjects in new ways it should, in theory, allow you to progress beyond small talk in one form or another. I mean, which statement would incite you into more of a light banter-y conversation:

"This isn't the weather I was expecting today."

or

"Among famous traitors of history one might mention the weather." - Ilka Chase

Anyone else have any good small talk alternative questions? Or rocks, barring that? :smalltongue:

While not a half bad suggestion in and of itself, I personally shall refrain. But I will commend you for your effort, and command of the english language to come up with something more appealing sounding than "how about that local sports team."

The big annoyance of small talk, is that it implies that the other person knows nothing about you, and really doesn't want to, but wants something to listen to other than silence. I understand why they don't want silence, but why is it so difficult for the person to try and ask something at least relevant to the situation?

I was a talker at the bank. And I never once initiated the canned small talk. In fact I did my best to subvert the topic almost each and every time. I always had a 'quote of the day' up, typically a comic of the week clipped out of the paper, and the daily news always gave me ammo for some kind if interesting topic, not related to the weather.

And for the record, I dislike the majority of pro-sports, so I do not bring it up.

[KenderWizard]

A friend of mine once said:
"Some people only talk to hear the sound of their voice. Some people only listen to know when it is again their turn to speak."

This is mostly how I feel about small talk.

Back when I worked at the bank, I endured small talk for 3 years. The majority of people, once I had their name and account number and had begun to process their transactions would fall into one of the following, without fail. By majority, I do mean 9 out of 10 people. I counted one day, made a chart and everything.
-How about the weather?
-Busy day?
-Quiet day?
-Plans for the weekend?
-Plans for (insert seasonal holiday)?

There were extremely few people who did not. What annoyed me most was not the small talk, it was the typical situations it came up in.

How about the weather?
It is a beautiful sunny day outside. I'm stuck in a bank with loud annoying smelly people who I'm sure are only in the bank just to have something to do. Especially the old people who would come in each and every day. I'm stuck inside, and will only leave when the weather is no good or when the sun goes down, because that's just how bankers hours work. So thank you for rubbing in the fact that yes, it is another nice sunny day outside that I don't get to enjoy so I can give you the balance of your account and 40 bucks cash, just like yesterday and the day before.
It's a horrible miserable day outside. And yes, people complain about the weather. Maybe when I was born some wizard perminancied the spell endure elements on me, because I honestly don't care what the weather is outside. I don't care if it's snow, sleet, hail, rain, cloudy and overcast, or sunny. Sure, I enjoy my sunny days like everyone else, but if it's pissing of rain outside what good does it do me or anyone else to complain? Moreover, what makes you think I want to hear about the miserable weather outside when I'm busy busting my hump to serve you?
And lastly, the part that annoys me most about people who small talk the weather. When you stood in line for 15 minutes, and likely witnessed every other person in line complain about the weather ahead of you, why did you not grasped that yes, indeed, we'd been over this topic. Likely multiple times. It's not clever or original. No one likes to answer the same question or discuss the same topic over and over and over again, particularly in the expanse of an 8 hour shift.


Busy Day?
So you somehow didn't notice that there were 15 people in line ahead of you when you came in? Did you somehow forget that you just spent 15-45 minutes in line?
What I love most is when people ask why it is so busy on this particular day. Somehow, when people are in a bank to depsit their paycheque, they don't stop and realize that hey, other people on planet earth have jobs, maybe the other 15 people in line have paycheques to drop off too. Perhaps it is a specific day every two weeks, maybe some kind of 'payday' or something of that nature. Maybe it's busy because the 15 people who are in front of you simply got from their job to the bank faster than you did.
Or the irony of ironies in a bank. People who come in to do month end deposits and own a business, and somehow don't clue in that all the other businesses in the area operate the same way they do, and thus are also in for month-end.
No word of a lie, I once had an entire bus full of people get out and walk into my branch, and guess what each person after the first asked to each and every teller? "Why so busy all of a sudden?" With a rude and angry tone no less. Gee, maybe it's the fact that 50 people just got off a bus at the same time, and walked into the same bank, and got into the same lineup...
To think I actually had to explain these things to people...


Quiet Day?
Just because it is quiet now, or you had a short line up when you came in, doesn't mean that it will remain quiet for any longer than the next 5 minutes. Just because it is quiet now, doesn't mean that it was quiet prior to you walking in the door.
Why do you think it's quiet on a monday morning in a bank? No one gets paid on a monday, and no one gets up extra early on a monday morning to go do banking business. Most other businesses open at the same time or slightly after we do, so that means no one has any business reason to come into the bank yet.
And really, this and 'busy day' are both condescending suggestions. Both imply that the tellers aren't doing enough or working fast enough or hard enough.


Plans for the ...?
Something I learned about telling people when you have time off. They'll suddenly think that they have to conclude their business with you prior to that time, otherwise it will not get done. IE, when I once told someone (who was packing up to leave) I was going away for two weeks, that person pulled out an extra deposit book and massive bundle of cheques, along with a wad of cash, and wanted me to deposit it. Because apparently the other tellers would all be magically incapable of performing a simple deposit without me being there, also begging the question, why the person didn't just deposit the stuff before I mentioned it?
Some people when they find out you have a trip to take, will try and give you a project, regardless of the fact that you are telling the person I WILL NOT BE HERE FOR THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. And for some mental reason, they want you to handle it. They won't allow anyone else to. So even if you could find someone else to handle it (and murphy's law says you likely will not find anyone willing to handle it), for whatever reason, that simply will not do.
Moreover, I'm not allowed to bring my outside of work personality to work with me, why the hell are you trying to drag it out of me at work?

I have the exact opposite problem in the bank! Because I go in as a customer, and go up to the desk, and want to get my business done so I can go on with other stuff, and it's the teller who does that HR-trained "Well, hello, [insert name on bank account here]. What do you study in [insert institution of education noted on student bank account here]?" when there's a break in the "conversation" (You know, the "How can I help you?" "Yes, I'd like to make a deposit." conversation.)

And I don't really mind chatting to them for a minute, since they started it, but the thing that annoys me is the name on my bank account is my given name, but everyone calls me a different name. So they're using my private family name that I don't use except with my grandparents, as if they're my best friend and know better. And it's not their fault, because that's what they've been told to do, but it annoys me. Plenty of people (in Ireland at least) go by a different name than the one on their birth certificate, and plenty of them dislike being called by their given name.

[Teddy]

I, for one, like silence both and small talk. I am, however, quite incapable of keeping most topics going when talking to people at my age, as my interests tend to diverge quite a bit from the norm (You've seen the new movie? I certainly haven't. You're playing your new FPS/RTS/MMORPG? I'm sticking to my old turn based strategy games.), and most of the classical small talk topics tend to run dry pretty quickly unless you have something new to add.

I think that I understand why some people just insist on talking to you, though (at least to a lesser degree). Most of us humans do want to "bond" to people they're somehow depending on (be it a family member or the supermarket cashier), and keep the bonds they've already made strong. I think it's in our genes to "bond" to people around us, so that we can cooperate better within our tribe and thus have a better chance of survival.

I think that perhaps this wish for "bonding" makes people dislike silence, as they feel that just sitting around without bringing eachother closer to eachother (how should I phrase that? :smallconfused:) will hurt their ability to cooperate, and thus lower their chance of survival. Therefore, they just need to "bond" and keep those "bonds" strong by non-stop talking. And when the conversation crashes, they try to get it going again by switching to another generic topic, because sometimes it can be hard to judge when it's the current topic or the small talk as a whole that the other person finds uninteresting.

Hmm... This could actually be quite a good conversation topic, while at the same time furthering the cause of science: Ask talkative people if their relatives are talkative too. Perhaps you could help me confirm my hypothesis that talkativity is in the genes. Or, perhaps all you need to do is google it to find an article on the subject, because I'm certainly not the first person to come up with this idea. :smallamused:

[mangosta71]

If you're talking about survival, you should change every instance of "cooperate" and "bond" to "breed". :smallwink:

[SDF]

You don't HAVE to small talk, but you'll never have a career in politics. You won't get very far in the corporate world. You won't make as many friends. You won't be able to do real conversation as well. You may not be as happy. If you are in a bad mood I suggest just putting in some head phones, but I don't see a real reason to avoid conversation. If you want you can always steer the conversation in a more interesting direction.

[Quincunx]

"Because it's making the world a less colorful place" is an excellent reason to avoid banality and small talk. You see, I can distinguish between a behavior which annoys me and a person which may or may not annoy me. Hate the sin, love the sinner--that's the expression, isn't it. Because I wish to devote a finite amount of energy to every person trying to make the world that little bit more dull, I will try once to see if they are willing to speak about matters less dull, and if not, will expend no more energy on listening let alone engaging the other person in conversation.

[Asta Kask]

But that's my point, I jump straight to the conversation and when I'm done I'm done. That's it. Come up with an interesting topic if you want to continue, otherwise I'm perfectly fine with being silent.

Do you also hug and kiss at the first meeting?

We shake hands when we meet to establish that we are friendly and that we respect the other person's boundaries. We do small talk for the same reason. Once the preliminaries are over with and that is established, we can talk about serious things. But until then, find something everyone can agree on - or at least not disagree too violently on. Politics - bad. Weather - good. I usually talk about my cat - children and pets are usually safe topics as well.

[Eldan]

We shake hands when we meet to establish that we are friendly and that we respect the other person's boundaries.

Also, to show that we are not carrying weapons.

[megabyter5]

Well, if this was for what a similar one to the one that was like you, then no. If not yes then no, since yes is not no and no is not yes, yes? Never without the use for what is in, and so is not out of, it. I don't know why there would not be one with the same as the last that you see around.

Did you get any information from that? No you didn't. But if you can make it boring enough, she will have NO IDEA that it's gibberish, because it SEEMS like a coherent statement to someone who's completely zoned out. If you do use this technique, remember some key points. First, talk carefully in a droning voice, like a really boring teacher or something. Second, if you have a word, and it seems like you could just draaaaaag it out, then do it. It helps the pseudo-sentence sound juuuuuust a little bit more natural. Thirdly, avoid any attention-getting words like the plague. Don't use words like "listen", "attention", "distracted", "manwhore", "look", or "ignore". If you do, she will see through the ruse and accuse you of mocking her.

[mangosta71]

Of course, an accusation of mocking might lead to a conversation that's actually entertaining.

[drakir_nosslin]

Do you also hug and kiss at the first meeting?
No (well, it has happened a few times, but it's not the norm), but it has nothing to do with my point. I don't like small talk because to me it doesn't increase my relationship with a person. Physical touch on the other hand does, or confirms the relationship. To me it's a big difference between the two.



We shake hands when we meet to establish that we are friendly and that we respect the other person's boundaries. We do small talk for the same reason. Once the preliminaries are over with and that is established, we can talk about serious things. But until then, find something everyone can agree on - or at least not disagree too violently on. Politics - bad. Weather - good. I usually talk about my cat - children and pets are usually safe topics as well.

I don't buy that. I shake hands, introduce my self, etc etc, but I've never understood why one shouldn't talk about things that interest you, be it politics, science, arts or whatever just because the other person might not agree. It makes absolutely no sense at all. If I find that the person that I'm talking with also has an interest in politics I have no problem bringing it up at our first meeting, no matter if we agree or not. I also have no problem spending time with people who don't agree with me, as long as they are interesting individuals. (note that I don't find racism and similar opinions interesting, only naive and childish.). I often learn a lot not only about the person I'm talking with, but also about my self when having a discussion, that's why I enjoy it.

[pendell]

Smalltalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk) is an object-oriented precursor to Java and Python. It was one of the first languages that was dynamically typed and wholly object oriented. My professors swore by it, which presumably is why everyone went to C++ instead.

Wait ... that wasn't what you were asking, was it? Nevermind ...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

PS. I see 'small talk' in society as the equivalent of 'testing ... 1 .. 2...'. By transmitting garbage, you ensure the comm lines are open should you need to involve in an actual serious discussion. It also reminds you you're dealing with a human being in a business situation rather than, say, an ATM. An ATM will give you money, but it won't say 'good morning' or laugh at your jokes like a human teller will. I prefer the human.

[mangosta71]

I don't buy that. I shake hands, introduce my self, etc etc, but I've never understood why one shouldn't talk about things that interest you, be it politics, science, arts or whatever just because the other person might not agree. It makes absolutely no sense at all. If I find that the person that I'm talking with also has an interest in politics I have no problem bringing it up at our first meeting, no matter if we agree or not. I also have no problem spending time with people who don't agree with me, as long as they are interesting individuals. (note that I don't find racism and similar opinions interesting, only naive and childish.). I often learn a lot not only about the person I'm talking with, but also about my self when having a discussion, that's why I enjoy it.

A lot of people have difficulty remaining civil when discussing differences in opinion concerning some topics. Politics and religion are particularly common issues that lead to...let's call it "heated debate". There's a reason those two topics are strictly off-limits on these boards. People tend to become very defensive - I think it boils down to a perceived attack on a stance they have chosen. Ethics and philosophy discussions can also become heated (though generally to a lesser extent), but very few people get worked up when talking about science and art.

[742]

my grandmother tried to teach me small talk, as far as i can tell the point is to see peoples reactions and subtly probe for info without them knowing they've given anything away. i was never much good at it and found it horrifyinfly dull.

my favorite solutions:
face palming or smashing my head against a desk/wall every time they speak. if they comment on the rudeness, see the below "your interrupting my silence" comment

explaining that you hate small talk-starting off civil and as your rant continues picking up more nervous ticks like a twitching eye and head jerks, talking faster and angrier every word until your gritting your teeth your entire face is twitching and your staring at her neck with crazy and hate and a touch of anticipation in your eyes, your words laced with such scorn that were they physical objects they would melt a hole in the floor. it only works if your an absolutely spectacular actor, maybe practice in the mirror. ive made it work once, but still thats pretty impressive; these people never shut up, even when you explain that you have a migraine and their speaking physically hurts you.

*exasperated you-just-spat-in-my-lunch voice* "i very much enjoy my silence. you are interrupting that for what seems like absolutely no reason, ive tried to drop subtle hints, but clearly youre not picking up on them. please stop; i find it overwhelmingly rude."

participate, but use the chance to **** with them. let insane theories or offensive opinions slip out. "yes, this is nice weather. the clouds are so pure and white without a dark one in sight; just like the master race. sigh" shuts people up in a hurry*, as does "i dont know, i kind of enjoy the rain, oh **** its still raining and almost the solstice! i dont suppose you have any cold iron lying around the office?" might start a substantial discussion about mythology, especially if your desperation seems genuine and you insist that theres nothing wrong but its very very important that you not leave the building without cold iron somewhere on your person.

or come in to work dressed oddly, like batman or exactly normal, but with a blood spatter on your arm and 'still' wearing the ceremonial face paint, pretending your not dressed like a superhero or didnt forget to wash up after the ritual; not that there was one or it involved a sacrifice; that would be insane! there will be questions, or the silence you crave as she wonders if its human blood. the trick is to deny everything and clean it up at the first opportunity (perhaps a run to the bathroom), then continue to deny everything act like she never asked the questions before you went to the bathroom and absolutely nothing out of the ordinary has happened, you "havent had your face painted since you were eight!" and "squick easily around blood; cant even eat a rare steak!"

*unless your not white, then its a great opportunity for funny

[drakir_nosslin]

participate, but use the chance to **** with them. let insane theories or offensive opinions slip out. "yes, this is nice weather. the clouds are so pure and white without a dark one in sight; just like the master race. sigh" shuts people up in a hurry*, as does "i dont know, i kind of enjoy the rain, oh **** its still raining and almost the solstice! i dont suppose you have any cold iron lying around the office?" might start a substantial discussion about mythology, especially if your desperation seems genuine and you insist that theres nothing wrong but its very very important that you not leave the building without cold iron somewhere on your person.

Yea, I've done this lots of times, it's awesome. The radical view thing is among the funniest since people react so strongly and I happen to love provoking (must be since I'm the youngest child in the family, I never was strong enough to fight so I used words instead :smallamused:), but one has to be careful with it, as some people actually turn violent when exposed to it.

But yea, I'm rarely completely serious when forced to small talk, it's the only fun I can get out of it, though I've understood that it's considered rude so I don't do it quite as often any more. (It's great at parties with people who are too intoxicated to realize that you are messing with them. I have a good time, they have a good time and the people around sometimes have a great time just listening)

[Quincunx]

Still, if someone gloms onto your radical view for good or for ill, you're still stuck with--talking. Only some people are shocked into silence, and if the yammerer in question had 'silent' as an option we wouldn't be in this mess.

[drakir_nosslin]

Yea, but then we're no longer small talking, we're arguing, and that's fine. We're developing arguments, getting to know each other (or rather, I get to know the other one, s/he gets to know my weird sense of humor). I prefer silence over pointless talk, but enjoy discussions, arguments.

[742]

its true, crazy can get it into either funny or serious territory. funny is fun but if they agree seriously i can tear into them, starting a serious discussion, if they disagree seriously i can have an in depth discussion with them, or more likely play the role of devils advocate for a while probing their opinions.

if they cant disagree with some amount of civility, i generally suggest that they not speak. (people with different or even completely opposite views than me are okay. trolls are not.) not that they ever take my recommendation.

[mangosta71]

my grandmother tried to teach me small talk, as far as i can tell the point is to see peoples reactions and subtly probe for info without them knowing they've given anything away. i was never much good at it and found it horrifyinfly dull.

my favorite solutions:
face palming or smashing my head against a desk/wall every time they speak. if they comment on the rudeness, see the below "your interrupting my silence" comment

explaining that you hate small talk-starting off civil and as your rant continues picking up more nervous ticks like a twitching eye and head jerks, talking faster and angrier every word until your gritting your teeth your entire face is twitching and your staring at her neck with crazy and hate and a touch of anticipation in your eyes, your words laced with such scorn that were they physical objects they would melt a hole in the floor. it only works if your an absolutely spectacular actor, maybe practice in the mirror. ive made it work once, but still thats pretty impressive; these people never shut up, even when you explain that you have a migraine and their speaking physically hurts you.

*exasperated you-just-spat-in-my-lunch voice* "i very much enjoy my silence. you are interrupting that for what seems like absolutely no reason, ive tried to drop subtle hints, but clearly youre not picking up on them. please stop; i find it overwhelmingly rude."

participate, but use the chance to **** with them. let insane theories or offensive opinions slip out. "yes, this is nice weather. the clouds are so pure and white without a dark one in sight; just like the master race. sigh" shuts people up in a hurry*, as does "i dont know, i kind of enjoy the rain, oh **** its still raining and almost the solstice! i dont suppose you have any cold iron lying around the office?" might start a substantial discussion about mythology, especially if your desperation seems genuine and you insist that theres nothing wrong but its very very important that you not leave the building without cold iron somewhere on your person.

or come in to work dressed oddly, like batman or exactly normal, but with a blood spatter on your arm and 'still' wearing the ceremonial face paint, pretending your not dressed like a superhero or didnt forget to wash up after the ritual; not that there was one or it involved a sacrifice; that would be insane! there will be questions, or the silence you crave as she wonders if its human blood. the trick is to deny everything and clean it up at the first opportunity (perhaps a run to the bathroom), then continue to deny everything act like she never asked the questions before you went to the bathroom and absolutely nothing out of the ordinary has happened, you "havent had your face painted since you were eight!" and "squick easily around blood; cant even eat a rare steak!"

*unless your not white, then its a great opportunity for funny

...

I love you.

[CrimsonAngel]

I only dislike small talk because i'm incapable of doing it. Which is why i've probably been single for as long as I have. I would much rather listen to other people talk to eachother anyway.

I hate me so much.

[Xyk]

I only dislike small talk because i'm incapable of doing it. Which is why i've probably been single for as long as I have. I would much rather listen to other people talk to eachother anyway.

I hate me so much.

It helps to assume that the other person wants to talk to you. Even if you doubt they do.

Turn that smile upside down! :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[Eldan]

Heh. That's the problem with working at universities: most "**** with people" methods don't work. Blood on someone's hands is a daily occurence, after all, and expressing particularly strange political or religious ideas get you either a "Stop talking nonsense, you don't believe that." or a "Really? That's so interesting!".

[Teddy]

Heh. That's the problem with working at universities: most "**** with people" methods don't work. Blood on someone's hands is a daily occurence, after all, and expressing particularly strange political or religious ideas get you either a "Stop talking nonsense, you don't believe that." or a "Really? That's so interesting!".

Heh, while it isn't even the university, at my gymnasium, we've got a civics teacher that is an anarchist. I don't have him in any of my subjects, but I've heard that he's quite prone to political discussions. :smallbiggrin:

[Cespenar]

A common 'trick' I use is that I carefully lead the relentless speaker to what few areas that he/she has more knowledge/experience than me so that I might as well gain something if the talk seems to be really unavoidable (and dragging out).

It also helps because people are happier when talking about something they're good at.

Aside that, though, I really wish people would stop seeing silence as awkward.

[Fri]

I think I completely understand you Drakir, but not because I hate small talk so very much. It's because I'm a security guard and I understand just how boring security is. I'm at work right now and I'm surfing the net because there is nothing going on. I work in a room full of monitors with one other person and she is a friend of mine but even with a friend I would get tired if we talked for eight hours straight everyday. So we talk for a while and then we amuse ourselves with the internet for a bit and then maybe we talk some more. Now sometimes I have to work with another woman who I really don't get along with but I still want to be polite since we have to work together. When she is here I just bring up my dog because she has a dog too and we exchange cute doggy stories. The best thing you can do with this woman at work is keep trying to find something in common so you chat at least a little bit. I still wouldn't want to talk for eight hours though. I lost my voice once when I did that. Not cool.

I bet some dramatic heist happened while you're not looking at the monitor. Or brooding assassin with a mysterious past put a looping vid of empty space, and you didn't noticed it because you're not looking at the monitor at that exact point :p

anyway, if you find people who like small talk or dislike silence weird, don't cry when people thought people who dislike small talk or like silence weird.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I can small talk with women just fine. It's like a slightly lesser version of flirting, which isn't a problem.

With guys though... pfftt. I don't give a crap about cars, the latest football game scores, or anything like that. That's what most are limited to.

Now, I can go on with politics just fine.

I can talk about most anything in fact, but there has to be a point to it.

I'm not an introvert per se, but I am independent and very self contained. If you can't talk about anything that interests me or teaches me something I'm better off with my own thoughts.

I like to ask questions and get answers and bounce them off people, but talk for the sake of talk, no thanks. At least ask them to tell you something about themselves. Most folks are eager to do so and it keeps you from having to respond much.

[Pocketa]

"tea drinking-cookie eating-monster"

I lol'd at your hyphens, and did not read the rest.

Smalltalk is great in my opinion, so no tips here.

[742]

oh theres also "the weather has been dreadful. its probably that [insult] [politician/other thing you hate]'s fault. its just like [thing that politician/other thing you hate did/does]"

[Lord Raziere]

I'm very introverted and such, I don't really like small talk either. If I'm going to talk, it better be important darn it! :smallannoyed:

that and I'm not interested in unimportant stuff. they're unimportant.

[TooManyBadgers]

My favorite trick is to engage small-talkers in their chitchat, use it to glean their interests and to progress to a natural conversation.

<.<

[Pocketa]

@TMB: how many internets should be transferred to your account? :p

To those of you that don't like small talk, I find that it's funny that posting on an internet forum in a thread is more pleasurable than the similar IRL activity.

Small talk from certain people on certain topics can be a nuisance. i.e. If you're not into reality tv, and somebody you dislike wants to talk about last night's episode of Survivor, you're going to be bored.

But if you're interested in medieval weaponry and the cute girl from history class asks you if you've seen the exhibition at the local museum? You'll be a lot more interested.

I think we're more forgiving of small talk when it's something interesting from someone that we're either friends with or would like to be friends with. Shallow as it is, that leads to another point: small talk from attractive people on boring topics is usually something that people bear more. In "The House Bunny", the pseudo-alternative girl performs an experiment/case study at a party, where she asks guys if they'd listen to her twitter and act like a ninny in exchange for being allowed to stare at her in provocative clothing. For them, the answer was obvious.

I enjoy small talk because I like getting to know people. And worse comes to worse, I get to hear about something they enjoy. I have friends that are into things that I might not necessarily find appealing. And trust me, they get bored listening to me talk about World of Warcraft. I know that, and they know that they're sometimes not the most exciting people to talk to either, so we balance it. My friends that are into sports talk about sports with other people, my friends that are into World of Warcraft talk about World of Warcraft with me.

[factotum]

@TMB: how many internets should be transferred to your account? :p

To those of you that don't like small talk, I find that it's funny that posting on an internet forum in a thread is more pleasurable than the similar IRL activity.


I consider this to be an interesting discussion, not small talk. If this thread was about football or something of that ilk I wouldn't even be reading it, trust me on this. :smallsmile:

[Lord Raziere]

I consider this to be an interesting discussion, not small talk. If this thread was about football or something of that ilk I wouldn't even be reading it, trust me on this. :smallsmile:

Yes we consider talking about how much we hate small-talk and our good reasons why interesting because.....well its interesting, there are so many different reasons why we all do one common thing which is pretty interesting in itself; if people can come up with multiple dissenting reasons to do the same thing then it is proof there is individuality even in doing the same thing, because you reasons for doing so are not the same as the person beside you which makes you just as much an individual as if you did a different action.

[Jonesh]

I can only ever really smalltalk when I'm a little bit tipsy, a trait that might be considered very "Swedish" (och varför är det så många svenskar i den här tråden? Skåne represent! :smalltongue:) but I think I can smalltalk sober now. I had a job where I was pretty much required to be able to smalltalk so I guess I learned to deal with it.
Otherwise I usually overthink conversations. I don't mind silence either though, I'm a bit introverted.

[RabbitHoleLost]

-stuff-

Hi, Pocketa. Remember when there was that Fashion thread, and I told you I loved you?
I still do.

Many of you are separating small talk from interesting conversations, and, in truth, sometimes they are the same things, or small talk in the starting steps for a good conversation.
Most forum posts are small talk, whether or not you find it interesting.

[Pocketa]

Exactly.

To some people boring small talk is about football.

To others, boring small talk is about videogames.

[Teddy]

Hmm, I've started to wonder what the definition of small talk really is... Apparently, small talk can't be about something interesting, because then it's a serious discussion, and on the other hand, whenever the topic of a discussion is boring without being important, it's apparently small talk. Does that mean that small talk is inherently boring, or does it mean that even interesting discussions can be concidered small talk? :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

if they cant disagree with some amount of civility, i generally suggest that they not speak. (people with different or even completely opposite views than me are okay. trolls are not.) not that they ever take my recommendation.

While you're running around cussing people out for saying hello and trying to make conversation? :smallconfused: WTF? If you're provoking people by being rude and aggressive towards them, they're going to cease wanting you around and if you want to be a hermit, go be a hermit and leave people alone.

I mean, seriously, you just made yourself look like a bitter misanthropic caricature of a man. :smallyuk:

I mean, I didn't go into this thread in the first place because I figured it was just someone complaining about their mother or something trying to pressure them into being more social which may or may not have been valid, but, well, since it was from their mom it naturally would be causing them no small resentment.

Then I come in and half the forum is railing against talking to people they aren't already half in the pants of. :smallyuk:

Forum, I am disappointed in you.

[Dr. Bath]

I'm sorry Coidzor.

It's all my fault.

[Lyesmith]

I'm sorry Coidzor.

It's all my fault.

BATH.

I AM DISSAPOINT.

On-topic, smalltalk is a basic social skill. And you can, with reasonable ease, steer and segue into actually interesting topics of conversation. I reccomend practicing such, if you abhor it so.

[Dr. Bath]

I posted a gif involving a dog with sunglasses on the first page and that didn't save the thread, in fact, it maybe started the emnity held within its seething folds of text.

Either way everything is my fault forever. I am sorry I am such a bad son to you Zira.

[Zocelot]

I am fully in support of small talk, but I always have trouble getting it going. Sometimes, I'll just point out the exceedingly obvious, like the weather, or someone dressed peculiarly.

[Copacetic]

You hate how small talk is boring? You want more interesting and meaningful conversations? Well, how do you think you get there. Using Trog's snowball analogy, start with something small and eventually you'll hit on something you're both interested in. As for hating unintelligible conversation starters, if you aren't musical "What are your thoughts about incorporating and recycling older melodies into pop songs and selling them off as brand new?" is just as boring as "How's the weather?".

Also, you say your tormentor is a middle-aged woman. Previous generations manners and social norms were formed without things like the internet, and so small talk was needed for any prolonged social interaction. By ignoring this woman, you are probably slighting her and hurting her feelings, as I believe her only motive is to become more friendly with you.

And honestly, if you're singular complaint is that you spend too long doing nothing with a woman trying to be nice to you for money, perhaps life isn't so bad after all.

[Pocketa]

See, GitP, I am disappoint on the thread as a whole.

I think it's fine to have an opposing viewpoint. However.

We most likely don't know OP IRL.
We don't know him.

Yet we're making personal attacks and calling him misanthropic.

This is part of why I'm conflicted on whether I want to stay on any sort of forum. At least on facebook, my friends are civil on my Wall, even with people they don't know (extended networks etc.).

Back on topic...

I like the snowball metaphor.

However, I'm going to add another metaphor: maybe a conversation is like a huge iceblock.

Small talk is like rolling a d100: if you roll a natural 20, it is a successful icepick roll: instant KO! And you break through the ice to the delicious chocolatey nougaty center. If you roll in anything else ending in a 0, you risk offending the glacier and it decides to break free of Greenland. If it ends in a 1-9, that's how much damage it deals to the iceblock. However, each turn, the glacier moves. Exponentially.

[Drascin]

@TMB: how many internets should be transferred to your account? :p

To those of you that don't like small talk, I find that it's funny that posting on an internet forum in a thread is more pleasurable than the similar IRL activity.

Small talk from certain people on certain topics can be a nuisance. i.e. If you're not into reality tv, and somebody you dislike wants to talk about last night's episode of Survivor, you're going to be bored.

But if you're interested in medieval weaponry and the cute girl from history class asks you if you've seen the exhibition at the local museum? You'll be a lot more interested.

The thing is, you're operating on a very different definition of small talk than the one many of us use. Once the conversation moves to a topic of discussion, it starts moving away from empty smalltalk opening and into a full-fledged conversation. Smalltalk is that typical "space filler". You know what I mean: "Dreadful weather, eh?" "How's the family?" "How's it going?" and etcetera.

Smalltalk is generally very obvious and easy to recognize in that unless the other person opened it up with the idea to make it an opening to a more decent talk, it's mostly about nothing and even when it appears to be about something because the question should logically make it head towards something, the person asking doesn't actually want a response, he just wants a typical non-thinky answer to banish the silence. For example, I have, once, actually answered the classic "How's the family?" question with a bit more detail, instead of the classic "Oh, fine, fine". I never did it again because I'm not cruel, and the sheer confusion, uncomfortableness, and loss of balance obvious in the other person when she found out I was actually answering, telling her a short little bit about how my sister was getting along (which was pretty well, she's a smart little munchkin and had just come home recently with stellar grades) made me feel bad for her. It was painfully obvious she didn't care one whit, and she was nodding and forcing a smile to get it over quickly and get this weirdo who seemed to think she gave a crap to shut up :smalltongue:.

Mostly, it's something people do because they want to talk with someone, and because it's considered polite. They don't, in many cases, actually want a conversation - just something to bounce common pleasantries off so they won't feel alone.

[Pocketa]

The thing is, you're operating on a very different definition of small talk than the one many of us use. Once the conversation moves to a topic of discussion, it starts moving away from empty smalltalk opening and into a full-fledged conversation. Smalltalk is that typical "space filler". You know what I mean: "Dreadful weather, eh?" "How's the family?" "How's it going?" and etcetera.

Smalltalk is generally very obvious and easy to recognize in that unless the other person opened it up with the idea to make it an opening to a more decent talk, it's mostly about nothing and even when it appears to be about something because the question should logically make it head towards something, the person asking doesn't actually want a response, he just wants a typical non-thinky answer to banish the silence. For example, I have, once, actually answered the classic "How's the family?" question with a bit more detail, instead of the classic "Oh, fine, fine". I never did it again because I'm not cruel, and the sheer confusion, uncomfortableness, and loss of balance obvious in the other person when she found out I was actually answering, telling her a short little bit about how my sister was getting along (which was pretty well, she's a smart little munchkin and had just come home recently with stellar grades) made me feel bad for her. It was painfully obvious she didn't care one whit, and she was nodding and forcing a smile to get it over quickly and get this weirdo who seemed to think she gave a crap to shut up :smalltongue:.

Mostly, it's something people do because they want to talk with someone, and because it's considered polite. They don't, in many cases, actually want a conversation - just something to bounce common pleasantries off so they won't feel alone.

Is it better that they feel alone?

[Drascin]

Is it better that they feel alone?

No, and that's why I will generally try to keep the noise going for their sake or at least let them down gently if I happen to be thinking of something - but it's something I'm doing for them, and not something I enjoy in the least, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll freely admit it would make me a lot happier if more people would learn that being silent doesn't mean you're alone, and that you can in fact be in the same room as someone else for more than thirty seconds without talking and without feeling awkward :smalltongue:. Basically, to me smalltalk is rather like carrying massive boxes for someone else - it's not pleasant, in fact it's actually quite the bother, and you're only really doing it to, well, to do them a favour because you want to be nice to them, really, that's what it boils down to in the end.

[Pocketa]

What would you rather do?

[Xyk]

No, and that's why I will generally try to keep the noise going for their sake or at least let them down gently if I happen to be thinking of something - but it's something I'm doing for them, and not something I enjoy in the least, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll freely admit it would make me a lot happier if more people would learn that being silent doesn't mean you're alone, and that you can in fact be in the same room as someone else for more than thirty seconds without talking and without feeling awkward :smalltongue:. Basically, to me smalltalk is rather like carrying massive boxes for someone else - it's not pleasant, in fact it's actually quite the bother, and you're only really doing it to, well, to do them a favour because you want to be nice to them, really, that's what it boils down to in the end.

Massive boxes? I think that's a little dramatic. Even if you're really introverted, it's not like it's a major hassle to say some words. It's not too different from silence if there's no real substance. I really consider it a minor favor, like holding a door. Maybe a heavy door, but still not that big.

[742]

to me theres a difference between a conversation about a topic im not horribly interested in* and a topic thats not very interesting even to the person speaking, especially if its scripted;
"'how are you today?' 'fine/okay, you/how are you?' 'good/okay/pretty good/fine, hows [significant other]' *repeat*" wont get you strange looks, "'how're ya doin today?' 'i could be better; my father just kicked me out of the house through a closed window and im going to be mostly blind until this migraine passes. how are you doing?'" offends people even if that last bit is dripping with sincerity and a desire to talk about anything but me.
for me shallow conversation has the exact opposite effect it seems to have on most people; it makes me feel more lonely rather than less, which i find unpleasant. i understand that im the exception on this so i try to react with civility first. when that fails** i move on to one of my various contingency plans detailed earlier in the thread. im not trying to say that im good in social situations, just that i dislike feeling lonelier than i have to without some purpose.

*theres a chance to learn about both the topic and the speaker, even if i dont particularly care about the history of the ottoman empire or the techniques involved in painting models for wargaming. more info is always*** good.
**or im in a really bad mood and just dont have the patience for it.
***barring significant squick or magic-shattering that i can usually see coming in advance.

[Bob the Urgh]

Not the best advice considering your situation but I find drinking really helpful when it comes to conversing with other people.

[Teddy]

to me theres a difference between a conversation about a topic im not horribly interested in* and a topic thats not very interesting even to the person speaking, especially if its scripted;
"'how are you today?' 'fine/okay, you/how are you?' 'good/okay/pretty good/fine, hows [significant other]' *repeat*" wont get you strange looks, "'how're ya doin today?' 'i could be better; my father just kicked me out of the house through a closed window and im going to be mostly blind until this migraine passes. how are you doing?'" offends people even if that last bit is dripping with sincerity and a desire to talk about anything but me.
for me shallow conversation has the exact opposite effect it seems to have on most people; it makes me feel more lonely rather than less, which i find unpleasant. i understand that im the exception on this so i try to react with civility first. when that fails** i move on to one of my various contingency plans detailed earlier in the thread. im not trying to say that im good in social situations, just that i dislike feeling lonelier than i have to without some purpose.

*theres a chance to learn about both the topic and the speaker, even if i dont particularly care about the history of the ottoman empire or the techniques involved in painting models for wargaming. more info is always*** good.
**or im in a really bad mood and just dont have the patience for it.
***barring significant squick or magic-shattering that i can usually see coming in advance.

I guess that's why I'm as bad at small talk as I am: I'm actually interested in hearing you tell me how you feel. :smallwink::smallbiggrin: