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Scarey Nerd
2010-07-27, 05:16 PM
I am DMing a party of 6 level 4 characters. What challenge rating of monsters would be appropriate for them? I've been thinking CR 6, as 4 level 6's should roughly be as strong as 6 level 4's, right?

jiriku
2010-07-27, 06:02 PM
Not quite. Doubling the number of creatures in an encounter increases its CR by 2. Increasing the number of creatures in an encounter by 50% increases its CR by only 1. Thus, your 6 level 4 PCs are (according to the CR system at least) approximately as capable as a group of 4 level 5 PCs. The default encounter for them should be CR 5.

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-27, 06:06 PM
Not quite. Doubling the number of creatures in an encounter increases its CR by 2. Increasing the number of creatures in an encounter by 50% increases its CR by only 1. Thus, your 6 level 4 PCs are (according to the CR system at least) approximately as capable as a group of 4 level 5 PCs. The default encounter for them should be CR 5.

So if a party of four is up against a Red Great Wyrm (CR 26), they should all be around ECL 26, but if they're up against two of them they should be level 28 each?...

I loathe challenge ratings...

Saya
2010-07-27, 07:46 PM
Be careful with taking CR for face value, especially once you get beyond the MM, since funny things start to happen...

AslanCross
2010-07-27, 08:31 PM
So if a party of four is up against a Red Great Wyrm (CR 26), they should all be around ECL 26, but if they're up against two of them they should be level 28 each?...

I loathe challenge ratings...

They don't NEED to be ECL 26. At ECL 26, they can be expected to reasonably defeat four EL 26 encounters within a day without severe depletion. (Of course, epic rules throw everything out the window, so it's pointless to even assign CRs at that level.)

I often throw over-CRed monsters at my players because they're capable of defeating them without much loss. Over CRed monsters can be good boss monsters.

awa
2010-07-27, 08:48 PM
also keep in mind say undead are typically over cred against rouges and under cred against clerics.

a enemy that fly's posses little additional threat to a wizard but is ver rough on fighters and monks particularly if it has solid ranged attacks. The list of course goes on.

A fight that might be impossible for a unoptimized monk is a joke for a wizard with the proper spells.

Cr is only the very roughest guideline every party is different if you treat cr like it's infallible you will probably have problems.

(and that's not even counting monsters like an adamantium horror where the cr is just wrong)

herrhauptmann
2010-07-27, 09:30 PM
So if a party of four is up against a Red Great Wyrm (CR 26), they should all be around ECL 26, but if they're up against two of them they should be level 28 each?...

I loathe challenge ratings...

Yeah, the numbers don't always work very well. It's annoying with an over CR'd enemy (dies too fast). But most dragons that are played intelligently by the DM end up being higher than their CR.
Nor do the numbers work if you have an overlarge party, say 9 level 4's. The numbers might say they should be able to deal with a CR 8, but face it, they won't. The party will win in action economy, but they won't be able to reliably hurt the enemy (damage dealt is outpaced by the enemies healing, and enemy damage dealt is going to be far higher). Not enough damage dealt per round, and too difficult to hit ac or beat his saves.