[3.5] Help with Simplifying Weapons

[WilliamWolf]

So, I'm trying to re-work my D&D 3.5 game to be stripped of non-fun and non-easy rules. I know that some might disagree, but I have observed that the masses of weapons filed into their sections are confusing to the new people I have played with, especially younger ones. A conversation between two new players trying to figure out just what kind of sword Aragorn had (longsword, bastard sword, or greatsword) in the LOTR movies made up my mind: I am going to revamp the weapons section!

The general idea is to keep the funnest part about the weapons and discard the not-fun part.

So! I will start out with what I have, and please tell me your honest feelings, especially from a new player's perspective.

I am using generic classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm), so here is my first thought: Spellcasters get Peasant weapons, experts get Peasant Weapons and one of each Ranged and Melee weapons groups, and warriors are proficient with all but Exotic weapons.

Peasant weapons: 1d4 light, 1d6 one-handed, 1d8 two-handed. 2x critical.
Examples: Staffs, short knives, clubs, gauntlets

Sword-like Weapons: 1d6 light, 1d8 one-handed, 2d6 two-handed. 19-20 2x critical.
Examples: scimitars, longswords, bastard swords, greatswords, claymores, rapiers

Axes: 1d6 light, 1d10 one-handed, 1d12 two-handed. 3x critical.

Bows: 1d8 ranged (100 ft range). 3x critical.

Crossbows: 1d10 ranged (100 ft range). 2x critical.

Pole-arms: 1d4 light, 1d6 one-handed, 1d10 two-handed. 2x critical, 10 ft reach for 2-handed, one handed can be thrown (10 ft range). Reach weapons can be used to trip with a +2 bonus on the check.
Examples: javelins, spears, guisarmes

Chain Weapons: 1d4 light, 1d6 one-handed, 2d4 two-handed. 2x critical. Chain weapons can be used to disarm, with a +2 bonus on the check.
Examples: flails, spiked chains, normal chains

Light weapons can be thrown with a range increment of 10 feet.

DM has final say on what kind of weapon is what, but after you figure that out, you can describe it however you want. If you wish to make a special weapon, make up statistics with the DM and take Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Any more thoughts/suggestions?

[Kuma Kode]

My staff just got better....

But yeah, combined with the generic classes, this makes for a very simple and streamlined game, especially useful if a bunch of friends get together and randomly decide to play a quick adventure or if half the group doesn't show up. I don't really see any problem with the statistics, though weapon geeks might scoff at the simplicity.

[WilliamWolf]

Well aren't you just out to make my day:smallbiggrin:

Edit: With the generic classes, I also thought that BAB could determine the amount of damage "nontraditional" weapons did: that incorporates unarmed strikes, shield bashes, armor slams, armor spikes, grapples, and so on. No light/one-handed/two-handed stuff, just a straight dice type: bab +0: 1d4; bab +1 through +5: 1d6; bab +6 through +10: 1d8; bab +11 through +15: 2d6; bab +6 or higher: 2d10.

Edit Edit: Also, I was thinking about using the upkeep system from cityscape, and having characters start out with an "adventurer's kit" (like the one from PHB II) and then getting 100 gp.

Also, I was thinking of doing a flat rate for weapons. Like, 2 gp for a peasant weapon, 50 gp for a sword, 30 gp for a polearm or chain, and so on.

[ericgrau]

The core weapons already are fairly simple with 1 and only 1 weapon for each role. If anything there might be some missing combinations of roles. So to simplify you need to reduce the number of roles or reduce the number of multi-role weapons. The weapon types are: most damage, best crit range, best crit multiplier, reach, tripping, disarming and dirt cheap. There is a set for light, one handed and two-handed. Ranged weapons don't use these types but revolve more around reloading method and strength damage. And all of the above is further divided into simple and martial weapons, with simple weapons generally being inferior.

You could perhaps collapse damage and crits into 1 weapon per handedness, and reach/tripping/disarming (with only a little less damage) into a 2nd weapon per handedness and per simple/martial-ness. From there each weapon could actually be a few weapons that are identical except for fluff.

[WilliamWolf]

You could perhaps collapse damage and crits into 1 weapon per handedness, and reach/tripping/disarming (with only a little less damage) into a 2nd weapon per handedness and per simple/martial-ness. From there each weapon could actually be a few weapons that are identical except for fluff.

Perhaps my brain isn't working properly on the amount of sleep I got last night... but I truly don't follow you here.

[Savannah]

How are you handling DR/weapon type? Reach weapons? Tripping weapons? Weapon finesse? Weapon focus, etc? Two weapon fighting (specifically light off-hand weapons)?

Personally, as a player who tends to play lower level and low optimization games (some of the traits of new players), I would not be happy with the simplified weapons. For me, the fun part of weapons is picking the one that does what you want, whether it means breaking out the d12 and having a weapon that does a lot of damage, or picking up something with an 18-20 critical range to get more crits. Mind you, I wouldn't be happy with the generic classes either, as I like having distinct class abilities, so I might not be the best gage for your group.

[ericgrau]

Perhaps my brain isn't working properly on the amount of sleep I got last night... but I truly don't follow you here.

For each category (light/one-handed/two-handed/simple/martial) 1 weapon that is good purely at damage and crits, and another that is good at reach and special attacks with a little less damage. So 12 melee weapons total. Each of those 12 weapons could actually cover multiple identical weapons. So maybe a greataxe and a greathammer would have exactly the same stats, only different fluff. Together they would still only be 1 of the 12 melee weapons.

EDIT: Oh, except 1 would be bludgeoning and another slashing. Oops. Well if you want to keep things simple, maybe you could remove DR/[slashing or piercing or bludgeoning]. Such monsters could get DR/projectile instead of DR/piercing, or DR [smaller number]/- instead of the other 2 types.

[WilliamWolf]

How are you handling DR/weapon type? Reach weapons? Tripping weapons? Weapon finesse? Weapon focus, etc? Two weapon fighting (specifically light off-hand weapons)?

Personally, as a player who tends to play lower level and low optimization games (some of the traits of new players), I would not be happy with the simplified weapons. For me, the fun part of weapons is picking the one that does what you want, whether it means breaking out the d12 and having a weapon that does a lot of damage, or picking up something with an 18-20 critical range to get more crits. Mind you, I wouldn't be happy with the generic classes either, as I like having distinct class abilities, so I might not be the best gage for your group.

1. DR/weapon type? Ah-ha, that's the kind of thing I came here for. You're right, I should be thinking about that. Maybe I would just determine what affected what and how. That's pretty much what I do anyways (I mean, bludgeoning not affecting zombies? did they ever see a zombie movie before writing the MM?:smallwink:)
2. Reach weapons are the purview of 2-handed polearms.
3. Tripping weapons are the polearms, as well.
4. Weapon finesse applies to unconventional weapons and light weapons.
5. Weapon focus would be for "one-handed swords," for example.
6. Two weapon fighting doesn't have to change.

Well, thank you for your opinion. Even if you like picking out things depending on their mechanics, I didn't see that dying with this system... just becoming less of an issue.


For each category (light/one-handed/two-handed/simple/martial) 1 weapon that is good purely at damage and crits, and another that is good at reach and special attacks with a little less damage. So 12 melee weapons total. Each of those 12 weapons could actually cover multiple identical weapons. So maybe a greataxe and a greathammer would have exactly the same stats, only different fluff. Together they would still only be 1 of the 12 melee weapons.

EDIT: Oh, except 1 would be bludgeoning and another slashing. Oops. Well if you want to keep things simple, maybe you could remove DR/[slashing or piercing or bludgeoning]. Such monsters could get DR/projectile instead of DR/piercing, or DR [smaller number]/- instead of the other 2 types.

Huh. I see what you're saying, but I kind of thought that's what I was doing.:smallconfused: What do you propose changing? Just some 18-20 weapons?

[ericgrau]

Eh similar but with differences. I think you have more weapons listed. W/e suits you.

Random thing I noticed: Trip weapons don't normally give you a +2 on the trip check. They only let you trip.

[Darkxarth]

I like it as a system. Simple, straightforward, and it covers most weapons. And, as you say, if players want something else, they can easily work out the stats with the DM and take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Also, it works really well with the Generic Classes.