Dysfunctional Dungeons and Dragons

[TelemontTanthul]

UNLIKELY HEROES...(or villains)

We played a Dungeons and Dragons (3.5) campaign last night that included:

8 Player Characters who had some of the most unusual classes and races we could imagine.

A. Orc Ninja (7 Ft. Tall, 300 lbs.)
B. Kobold Bard (2 Ft. Tall, 37 lbs.)
C. Goblin Wizard
D. Halfling Barbarian
E. Ranger w/ Goblin slaves
F. Time Traveling Alcoholic
G. Paladin with a Blackguard Alter- Ego
H. And finally, thanks to people like you, a Cat-O-Mancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161908) (summons undead cats to do his bidding.)

THE QUESTION

Completing the Cat-O-Mancer (Mostly) got me thinking. What other weird, whacky, and totally ridiculous classes could be made for our campaign?


THE CHALLENGE

My challenge to you is to suggest ideas, create rough outlines, or even fully draft out classes that would be usable in play, yet completely ridiculous in theory.

Aside from the Cat-O-Mancer, which is nearly complete, and the Time Traveling Alcoholic, which I intend to work on next with charming people from gitpg forums, I need ideas on how to spice up some of these other classes, which are seemingly relatively tame and bland by comparison.

THE GUIDELINES

When I say "Go Crazy", I pretty much mean it literally. But here are a few things that I hope to achieve.

1. Some relative balance (I'm being rather lenient here)
2. LOTS of flavor
3. Extremely unique, yet unlikely classes

IDEAS TO GET YOU STARTED

I have put a little thought into this. And so far, to fix the Kobold Bard, or rather, break it even further to the point where it might be fixed, I came to the conclusion of making a pun.

A really really bad pun.

You see, he would be a Zombie Bard instead.

And his name would be Rob.

So what sort of abilities would be fitting of a Zombie Bard named Rob?

Sincerely,

Telemont Tanthul

[DracoDei]

This is a modification to a bard, mostly reflavor, but somewhat of recrunch to it. You could call it an Alternate Class Feature, but it isn't (and really shouldn't need to be) written up in the same level of detail as the usual ACF set.

This was inspired when I was making a macro for the wereskunk character I play. I used the flavor text "I'm not the spell-caster, I'm the SMELL-caster!" for his flurry of sprays. The phrase got stuck in my head, and eventually I had the idea for this...

Combat Aroma-Therapists are a very rare breed, saying with the highly evocative language of scent what bards communicate with sound. They produce their effects by mixing and dispersing perfumes. They use Profession(Perfumer) in place of Perform ranks, checks, etc. The effects are, of course, limited by the range the scent can be smelled (use the ranges given for Scent, tripled if a given ally actually has the Scent ability), rather than where a sound can be heard, but the effects, including duration, are otherwise identical in most cases. Raw materials for perfuming cost the same as for a musical instrument of similar quality, and replacement costs are 2 cp for each use of an Aroma ability, and 1 sp per spell level for spell casting. A given set can usually last 10/class level days of maximum use before becoming depleted of enough ingredients that Aroma effects and Spells can no longer be produced from that set. Replace Summon Instrument with an equivalent Summon Perfumer's Kit

Instead of (almost) always having verbal components and not being able to be cast silently, Combat Aroma-Therapists spells (almost) always have material components (raw perfume ingredients, in addition to any other) somatic components (mixing and disbursing the perfume), and may not be cast as Stilled spells, nor are they affected by the "Eschew Material Components" or "Ignore Material Components" feats. They have a verbal component (which may be Silenced by appropriate metamagic) if the spell requires verbal components for a Sor/Wiz or Cleric, if it can't be cast by at least one of those classes then the GM should use his discretion, but spells that are naturally without verbal components should be rare.

Instead of being able to Counter-Song sonic effects, Combat Aroma-Therapists can Counter-Smell olfactory effects, such as pheromones, troglodyte and ghoul stench, and skunk musk. The rules are otherwise the same.




I think Bhu's Cat thread, and my Falling Anvil discipline qualify.


Races and Feats that might be good parts of such builds:
I suppose that an adventuring Lord of Rest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3505010&postcount=13), Half-Beige Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=59834&pp=40) (scroll to the end), or Half-Disco Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6844810&postcount=5) (ditto), would be pretty silly. Don't know if any group of adventurers could ever put up with a half-beige though... (forceful whisper) "Put away that Ioun stone. It makes you look weird! By Boccob I have never been so embarrassed in my entire life!"


Vapid Shot
Some people achieve supreme accuracy by entering a state known as "No Mind", their judgment and inner peace helping them reach this state (Zen Archery Feat)... You take a rather different route to this same state, never having had a mind to begin with.
Benefits: Subtract your intelligence modifier from all your ranged attack rolls (so a negative INT MOD gives a bonus to hit).
Normal: Being a moron doesn't make you a better shot...


And here is a link to something that someone posted in response to the above: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8999377&postcount=5

[Owrtho]

The undecided. The character, using the same starting rolls, alignment, name, race, etc. makes 6 different builds using different classes all at the level of the undecided's class level. Every round they roll a 1d6 to determine their current build. No idea on balance, and may need some changes. Still would be entertaining.

Owrtho

[Lev]

I have a halfling barbarian in the campaign I'm running too.

He has a short temper.

How about a halfgiant scout?

[TelemontTanthul]

Alright thanks for the suggestions, my friend is looking more towards a zombie bard. Any class features that you could think of, or ideas that could be implemented that would go with that theme?

I was thinking of some sort of class feature that involves the audience being zombified, much like the Fascinate ability of a regular bard. Perhaps with some differences?

Additionally, since he is dead, should he not have spells? No constitution score? etc etc.

[Lev]

Alright thanks for the suggestions, my friend is looking more towards a zombie bard. Any class features that you could think of, or ideas that could be implemented that would go with that theme?

I was thinking of some sort of class feature that involves the audience being zombified, much like the Fascinate ability of a regular bard. Perhaps with some differences?

Additionally, since he is dead, should he not have spells? No constitution score? etc etc.
Heh.
Thriller!

[DracoDei]

If Thriller is your inspiration, you ought to run a search for "Groovin' Dead". Or go to the Beige dragons, and click the link in the alignment section.

Also, I think there is some sort of a PrC that lets bards give bonuses to undead.

[Jjeinn-tae]

I think the feat that allows bardic music to effect undead is in Libris Mortis.

You could be a ghost bard with a skeleton band with the Dread Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129526). It could probably be easily adjusted to turn you into a zombie instead of a ghost... But then you're starting mortal and you have a big band/army following you.

[TelemontTanthul]

I really like the Dread Bard, I think that would be perfect.

Only three issues.

1. Makes the bard a ghost (Not a big deal, low priority fix)

2. PrC class (I need a base class, high priority fix)

3. Too powerful to simply say "It's a base class now" (Just some balancing, and de-powering some abilities)

I am not quite so practiced at this sort of thing. If anyone has any suggestions on how to make the Dread Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129526) a base class. I am all ears here.

I think the first thing is to remove the ghost ability, as you suggested. Perhaps even make the bard a zombie, but missing a few of the traits, such as a lack of Constitution score.

Alright, we have a direction on the first class.

Now all we have to do, is find a way to make it possible.

[togapika]

Goblin Pimp!

[Jjeinn-tae]

I'll help by going level by level for a bit, extending things as I think makes sense. I'd be making it lower magic than Bard and Dread Necromancer, if that's not what you're wanting, this still could work as a base.

1st level, give Harrowing Song still, but have it function as a negative Inspire Courage automatically. You don't get Inspire Courage at all, it's just a trade in. Gets one use of Harrowing Song a day, and able to take any feat that requires Bardic Music as a requirement, changing any instances of Bardic Music to Harrowing Song.

2nd level... While I think Incorporeality needs to be converted to a zombie style skill, level 2 is not the level to start. 2 is a dead level now, or has another ability to be determined later, maybe the creation of skeletal minions?

3rd level, doesn't make sense here, but we can convert it in a way. So are first one that requires description:

Entropic Music (su) By spending two uses of his Harrowing Song, a Dread Bard may deal 1d6 negative energy damage to all within range of his Harrowing Song. This damage increases by 1d6 every 3 levels (so level 6 is 2d6, level 9 3d6). The damage might need to be adjusted, but that will have to come later.

4th level, We're going to push back advanced learning here, and give Spellcasting. A Dread Bard has Spells Per Day equal to a Bard 4 levels below his Dread Bard level (granting him none this level) and Spells known equal to a Bard 3 levels below his level, allowing him to cast spells if he has enough Charisma to get bonus spells. In all other respects, he casts as a Bard half his level, using the Dread Bard Spell List.

The Dread Bard Spell List is all Bard Spells, and all necromancy spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer Spell list (will definitely need to rule out specific spells, but it makes it easier as a start here). All Spells cast by a Dread Bard may be cast in Light Armor (armored Spellcasting), have a verbal component, and cannot be silenced or quickened (due to being a spontaneous spellcaster).

5th level, I think this is a good time for the first Dead Flesh ability (Incorporeality replacement) which augments at every 5 levels. For every 5 levels in Dread Bard, the character has 10% fortification.

That's all I'm doing for the moment, but I will come back with more later if you want it.

[Crossblade]

Alright thanks for the suggestions, my friend is looking more towards a zombie bard.
I was thinking of some sort of class feature that involves the audience being zombified, much like the Fascinate ability of a regular bard.

Look at the Dirgesinger, p43 Libris Mortis? It's a PrC, but still...

[Xefas]

The Humanologist

Many a tale is told of sinister humans trafficking with demonic powers and learning to spread the taint throughout the Prime. Usually through discreet means, but occasionally, and more fearsomely, by directly summoning fiends into the world. The truly devout receive blessings by their dark masters, becoming more and more like the beings they serve.

Few scholars of the Prime know, however, that the reverse is also true, though seldom. There is strength in mankind, and the fiends of the Lower Planes know this. In the Blood War, they bring to bear this awesome power, and in return are warped into (to them) hideous mockeries of their former selves.

Prerequisites:
Type: Outsider [Evil]
Skills: Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Knowledge (Local) 8 ranks
Special: Must have made friendly contact with a Humanoid with the [Human] subtype.
Special: Must have access to a spell or spell-like ability of 3rd level or higher with the [Summoning] or [Calling] subtype.

Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 8 + intelligence modifier
Class Skills: As racial hit dice (if any). Otherwise, any 12, chosen at creation

Base Attack Bonus: Good Progression
Saving Throws: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will Good Progression
Maximum Levels: 3

Class Features:

Human Apotheosis: At first level, the Humanologist begins to change. His skin becomes pink and spongy, he stands more upright, and hair sprouts between any two skin flaps that happen to close against each other. Mentally, he is just as warped as he is physically, gaining 4 bonus skill points +1 skill point per level afterward.

At 2nd level, the Humanologist's mind is opened to the vast array of possibilities they might choose for their profession, no longer taking multiclass penalties.

At 3rd level, the apotheosis is complete, and the Humanologist now appears more man than fiend. He gains a free bonus feat as his mind becomes more able to adapt.

Summon Human: At first level, the Humanologist gains the ability to, a number of times per day equal to their class level, summon a small number of humans to their aid. At first level, they summon 1 Human, at second level, this grows to 1d3. At third level, they summon 1d4+1.

The summoned humans are exceptionally human, with three levels of the Human Paragon class, and 1 level of any class of the Humanologist's choosing. Each human need not match the class of the other humans summoned; they are a varied lot, afterall.

For every 2 Character Levels gained after the Humanologist gains his third level in this class, add 1 to the number of class levels each human may have when summoned.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Since you seem open to homebrew, I've tossed together a quick awakened variant zombie template for the bard character by blending material from the Libris Mortis and the SRD:


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/left4dead411/l4d-concept-art-screamer.jpg
"I-it was hor-horrible! It l-looked l-like my hu-husband, but it wo-wouldn't st-stop sc-screaming."

Screamer: (inspired by Left 4 Dead's prototype special infected)

Type: Undead

HD: d12

Speed: If the base creature can fly, maneuverability drops to clumsy. The base creature also gains a climb speed equal to its land speed (or keeps its own, if better). Otherwise, as base creature.

Armor Class: As normal zombie.

Base Attack: As normal zombie.

Attacks: As normal zombie.

Damage: As normal zombie.

Special Attacks: As normal zombie.

Special Qualities:
Damage Reduction (Ex):
A screamer has damage reduction 5/slashing.

Outcry of Lament (Ex):
A screamer's bardic music, or virtuoso performance effects, influence undead in addition to any other creatures they would normally affect. In addition, a screamer may substitute the Intimidate skill for the Perform skill when making checks and determining prerequisites involving anything related to the aforementioned abilities.

Speaker for the Dead (Ex):
A screamer's racial hit die stack with relevant class levels when determining the availability, and uses per day, of the abilities affected by Outcry of Lament.

Saves: Fort +1/3 HD, Ref +1/3 HD, and Will +½ HD + 2.

Abilities: No Con score, but otherwise as base creature.

Skills: As base creature.

Feats: As base creature.

Alignment: Any.

Level Adjustment: +0


----------------------------------------------

Took about 10 minutes, tops, to bust that sucker out. Modify as needed.

[TelemontTanthul]

Haha, these are very good. Keep em' coming.

Definitely enjoyed the Humanologist, I thought that was unusual, since the character aspires to be human, somewhat. I laughed at the Summon Human ability, definitely backwards from what I am used to. Never occurred to me; demons summoning humans, rather than humans summoning demons. :smallamused:

Dirgesinger is also very interesting. Perhaps there is a way to combine the two prestige classes into a base class?

As for the first levels that you have shown me, Jjeinn, I think we are moving in the right direction. Entropic Music should be good, since most bards complain about standing around playing music to help others, rather than kick butt on their own.

One Issue that I have so far: The Dread Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129526) Ability "Dem Bones" would give the Dread Bard a few minions to manage. I want to eliminate that, in favor of the minions taking no direct part in battles etc etc. Perhaps they could merely be ghosts that play music to bestow bonuses or minuses (as the dread bard sees fit).

Just food for thought.

Anyway, keep the suggestions coming! These are a great help. :smallbiggrin:

[Owrtho]

Might also look at the Restless Troubadour (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116741) by Djinn_In_Tonic.

Owrtho

[Jjeinn-tae]

Glad you like it, though I must admit, I'm trying to make a living of making computer based RPG's, so I've had some practice.

I've looked up how to make tables, so from now on, it should be more streamlined... and, you've given me an idea for a class feature in exchange for Dem Bones, which is our 6th level ability. I also think, we might want to change the name, as while based on the Dread Bard heavily, we are also straying, maybe the Harrower?

{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Harrowing Song -1
2|+1|+0|+0|+3|
3|+2|+1|+1|+3|Entropic Music
4|+3|+1|+1|+4|Spellcasting
5|+3|+1|+1|+4|Dead Flesh
6|+4|+2|+2|+5|Ghost Accompaniment
7|+5|+2|+2|+5|See below
8|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Advanced Learning, Harrowing Song -2
9|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|
10|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7|Dead Flesh
[/table]

{table]level|{colsp=7}Spells Per Day|{colsp=7}Spells Known
Spell Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|0|1|2|3|4|5|6
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|0|-|-|-|-|-|5|2*|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|6|3|-|-|-|-|-
6|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|6|3|2*|-|-|-|-
7|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|6|4|3|-|-|-|-
8|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|6|4|3|-|-|-|-
9|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|6|4|4|2*|-|-|-
10|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|6|4|4|3|-|-|-
11|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|6|4|4|3|-|-|-
12|3|3|3|2|0|-|-|6|4|4|4|2*|-|-
13|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|6|4|4|4|3|-|-
14|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|6|4|4|4|3|-|-
15|3|3|3|3|2|0|-|6|4|4|4|4|2*|-
16|4|3|3|3|3|1|-|6|4|4|4|4|3|-
17|4|4|3|3|3|2|-|6|4|4|4|4|3|-
18|4|4|4|3|3|3|0|6|5|4|4|4|4|2*
19|4|4|4|4|3|3|1|6|5|4|4|4|4|3
20|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|6|5|5|4|4|4|3
[/table]

With advanced learning, they will have more spells known than the chart says, we might want to increase spells per day.

Harrowing Song (su)
Once per day, per Harrower class level, the Harrower may sing a horrifying song. Any opponent which can hear the Harrower a -1 penalty on saving throws against charm and fear effect, and a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. The effect lasts for 5 rounds after the Harrower has stopped singing. This ability improves at 8th level, and every 6 Harrower levels afterward.

For the purpose of qualifying for feats or Prestige Classes, Harrowing Song qualifies as Bard Song. Any bonuses to Bard Song from these sources instead effect Harrowing Song.


Entropic Music (su) By spending two uses of his Harrowing Song, a Dread Bard may deal 1d6 negative energy damage to all within range of his Harrowing Song. This damage increases by 1d6 every 3 levels (so level 6 is 2d6, level 9 3d6). The damage might need to be adjusted, but that will have to come later.

4th level, We're going to push back advanced learning here, and give Spellcasting. A Dread Bard has Spells Per Day equal to a Bard 4 levels below his Dread Bard level (granting him none this level) and Spells known equal to a Bard 3 levels below his level, allowing him to cast spells if he has enough Charisma to get bonus spells. In all other respects, he casts as a Bard half his level, using the Dread Bard Spell List.

The Dread Bard Spell List is all Bard Spells, and all necromancy spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer Spell list (will definitely need to rule out specific spells, but it makes it easier as a start here). All Spells cast by a Dread Bard may be cast in Light Armor (armored Spellcasting), have a verbal component, and cannot be silenced or quickened (due to being a spontaneous spellcaster).

Dead Flesh
At fifth level, the Harrower receives Fortification 10%. For every 5 levels after this, the Harrower's fortification improves by 10%.


Ghost Accompaniment

The Harrower receives a single ghost minion to assist in the Harrower's pursuits. The ghost accompaniment has no combat capability on its own, but may render itself invisible to avoid detection as a normal ghost. The ghost may aid the Harrower in perform checks, regardless of whether the audience is aware of the accompaniment. It may also act as the epicenter for Harrowing Song, or Entropic Music at the Harrower's option.


Ok, 7th level is a big flavor level for the Dread Bard, I feel the Harrower should also get some flavorful bonuses here. As the Harrower is progressing into undeath, zombie specifically, a +2 vs mind effects probably isn't to out of bounds, but might be a little powerful here, though we have already cut a decent amount of power from the first levels. As a spell like ability, I'm thinking maybe that spell in the Player's Handbook that allows you to see the enemy's HP total, it seems kind of zombie like to me (though that might be because of Left 4 Dead...) For now, we'll leave this.

Advanced Learning

At 8th level, and every 3 levels afterward, the Harrower may add any Illusion, Enchantment, or Necromancy spell of up to the highest level he may cast, to his spells known.


I like the sound to backup singer, but it doesn't really work here, for now, this is another dead level.

And, here we are, an idea for the first 10 levels.

[TelemontTanthul]

Okay, a few questions.

Question 1. Should we incorporate a zombie version of Fascinate, maybe called Zombify? The idea being that the audience is completely engrossed in the Harrower's song. (Maybe for extra flavor, the audience attempts to do the Thriller dance?) :smallwink:

Harrowing song is the opposite of Inspire Courage, which I definitely like. So that stays. Also assuming that the number of uses is identical to the Bardic Music ability.

Question 2: I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Bard's. So could we explain the Level 6's ability a bit further in terms of "What do the bonuses really do for the bard?" The perform check bonus is nice, but does that help the Harrowing Song ability or something?

Question 3: Finally. Besides the +2 vs. Mind Effects, and the "Hit Point Vision", what else can we add to make the Harrower about equal to the Bard? Remember, at this point a regular bard has decent spellcasting abilities (For a bard), and just gained the Suggestion feature.

----------------------------

Now, as for the Restless Troubadour idea, I think that would be a great PrC for the Harrower class. Especially since our little party has no real healer to speak of. (Definitely enjoyed the abilities that class has to offer.)

[Jjeinn-tae]

Okay, a few questions.

Question 1. Should we incorporate a zombie version of Fascinate, maybe called Zombify? The idea being that the audience is completely engrossed in the Harrower's song. (Maybe for extra flavor, the audience attempts to do the Thriller dance?) :smallwink:

Harrowing song is the opposite of Inspire Courage, which I definitely like. So that stays. Also assuming that the number of uses is identical to the Bardic Music ability.

Question 2: I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Bard's. So could we explain the Level 6's ability a bit further in terms of "What do the bonuses really do for the bard?" The perform check bonus is nice, but does that help the Harrowing Song ability or something?

Question 3: Finally. Besides the +2 vs. Mind Effects, and the "Hit Point Vision", what else can we add to make the Harrower about equal to the Bard? Remember, at this point a regular bard has decent spellcasting abilities (For a bard), and just gained the Suggestion feature.

----------------------------

Now, as for the Restless Troubadour idea, I think that would be a great PrC for the Harrower class. Especially since our little party has no real healer to speak of. (Definitely enjoyed the abilities that class has to offer.)

Question 1: Hmm, that's definitely a good idea, We will give them Fascinate, as the Bard special ability, but forces those who fail their will saves to dance (like fascinate they can still take action, but the dancing gives them the penalty). We will also have it effect the mindless as a boost, they should probably get a will save too, but its more flavorful if they don't. Its a little more powerful than regular fascinate, but not hugely, so lets give them it at level 2, eliminating a dead level.

Question 2: Perform bonuses increase the save DC of various bardic music abilities, and can be used in social situations for various effects (often making money, or meeting with royalty). I hadn't implemented any for the Harrower that required it yet, but Thriller is now their first ability that uses it.

Question 3: The most difficult question here, thinking it over since I wrote that, the Hit Point vision, while possibly flavorful, probably really isn't a good thing to have here... Maybe a touch effect similar to ray of enfeeblement.

Then as a balance to suggestion... This is a rather difficult one to balance against. As a Harrower we have access to the same spell level as a Bard, provided we have enough Charisma, but we aren't necessarily guaranteed to take all the nice necromancy touch spells that are around this point to balance power... Initial thoughts are anything that can be effected by Thriller may be Held instead of Suggestion, but that is a power boost compared to suggestion I think, they would be able to be coup de graced when held. This one will need to be thought out quite a bit, but should probably be our level 7 ability.


A couple other things I've thought of, Music effects really don't have a range, the only limitation is that they can hear you, Entropic Music would be very hard to use in combat when your allies are not undead... We need the Harrower to be able to single people out to to not be affected.

Spells per day, I'm thinking need to go up a decent ways, we're going to have weaker spells in general, in addition to having a larger spell list, increasing spells per day max for each spell level is a nice boost that rounds the character out.

[Strudel110]

For funny undead bard ideas, see Lord Raptor from darkstalkers. Pics below.
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters2/zabel-dance.gifhttp://img2.allposters.com/images/CAPPOD/DS021.jpghttp://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters2/zabel90.gif

[ryleah]

I've been considering for a while the idea of an anti bard. A bard who is so terrifyingly bad that everyone he fights takes penalties. He would complet with his own spell list, featuring such gems as call heckler and Disrupt Orgy.

[Pyromancer999]

Here are some alternative versions of Bardic Songs that me and my group have made (inspired by modern songs) that you may like, although you'll have to decide the minimum performance ranks:

Baby, Baby, Baby oooooooh: For the duration of the song, all members of the opposite gender are dazed. For the duration of the song, and one round after, all actions taken by those affected must be move actions used to move near the bard. In addition, those affected by the song improve their attitudes toward the bard by one step.

Vertigo Step: For the duration of the music,once per turn, the bard may teleport any person within 30 ft. a distance equal to 5 ft. per bonus to attack that Inspire Courage would grant, in any direction. However, this results in the person teleported becoming dazed for a number of rounds equal to the bonus to attack that Inspire Courage would grant.

Also, I have a few class ideas that sort of fit what you're looking for:

-Gigantic Jerk: Sure, he may be irritable and unlikable, but that doesn't mean he can't crank out a few good attacks, or put his abilities as a jerk to good use.

-Village Idiot: Laugh at him if you may, but this idiot's escaped a flood, two earthquakes, and the repeated attacks of a poodlemancer unharmed.

-Poodlemancer: Summons living poodles, and powers revolve around poodles. The antithesis of the Cat-o-mancer

-Tomemaster: Sure, he may look like JUST some kid who's spent all of his life looking at books, but there's some creepy stuff in those books.....still won't help him get a girlfriend, though. Unless he's into them's undead things or weird creatures with tentacles. Or undead things with tentacles.

[TelemontTanthul]

Harrower

20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Harrowing Song -1|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Zombify|-|-|-

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Entropic Music|-|-|-|-

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Greater Zombify|3|0|-|-|-

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dead Flesh|3|1|-|-|-|-

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ghost Musician|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Touch of Undeath|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Advanced Learning, Harrowing Song -2|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Bestow Hopelessness|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Dead Flesh|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Advanced Learning|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|-----|3|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|-----|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Advanced Learning|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|-----|3|3|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mass Zombify|4|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Advanced Learning|4|4|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|-----|4|4|4|3|3|3|0|-|-|-

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|-----|4|4|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|-

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Advanced Learning, Greater Mass Zombify|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|-|-|-[/table]

Abilities Charisma is the most important attribute for a Harrower, as it is the defining attribute for many of his skills and abilities. Dexterity and Intelligence also play a key role for a Harrower, denied armor, they must rely on their reflexes and intellect to keep them from harm.

Class Skills- Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Diguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)

Skill Points at First Level- (4 + Intelligence Modifier) X 4

Skill Points at each additional level- 4 + Intelligence Modifier

Armor and Weapon Proficiency- Harrowers are proficient with all simple weapons, and cannot wear any armor (including shields), as it interferes with their spellcasting and performing.

Okay, so this is REALLY REALLY ROUGH AND IN NO WAY COMPLETE, but with a little more help here and there to make things balanced/complete, I think we can make a pretty decent class.

Quick Note: Touch of Undeath is not a spell, but rather naming what had been suggested by Jjeinn-tae earlier for his 7th level ability.

We need some abilities for the higher levels. Keep in mind, this is a base class, not a prestige class.

[DracoDei]

Here are some alternative versions of Bardic Songs that me and my group have made (inspired by modern songs) that you may like, although you'll have to decide the minimum performance ranks:

Baby, Baby, Baby oooooooh: For the duration of the song, all members of the opposite gender are dazed. For the duration of the song, and one round after, all actions taken by those affected must be move actions used to move near the bard. In addition, those affected by the song improve their attitudes toward the bard by one step.

Vertigo Step: For the duration of the music,once per turn, the bard may teleport any person within 30 ft. a distance equal to 5 ft. per bonus to attack that Inspire Courage would grant, in any direction. However, this results in the person teleported becoming dazed for a number of rounds equal to the bonus to attack that Inspire Courage would grant.

Also, I have a few class ideas that sort of fit what you're looking for:

-Gigantic Jerk: Sure, he may be irritable and unlikable, but that doesn't mean he can't crank out a few good attacks, or put his abilities as a jerk to good use.

-Village Idiot: Laugh at him if you may, but this idiot's escaped a flood, two earthquakes, and the repeated attacks of a poodlemancer unharmed.

-Poodlemancer: Summons living poodles, and powers revolve around poodles. The antithesis of the Cat-o-mancer

-Tomemaster: Sure, he may look like JUST some kid who's spent all of his life looking at books, but there's some creepy stuff in those books.....still won't help him get a girlfriend, though. Unless he's into them's undead things or weird creatures with tentacles. Or undead things with tentacles.
There was an entire thread about a set of ACFs (Alternate Class Features) that I recall (and have a quote from in my Extended Signature) based around Simon and Garfunkel songs.

[Jjeinn-tae]

Harrower

20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Harrowing Song -1|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Zombify|-|-|-

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Entropic Music|-|-|-|-

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Class Ability|3|0|-|-|-

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dead Flesh|3|1|-|-|-|-

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ghost Musician|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Touch of Undeath|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Advanced Learning, Harrowing Song -2|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Bestow Hopelessness|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Dead Flesh|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Class Ability|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Class Ability|3|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Class Ability|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Class Ability|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Class Ability|3|3|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mass Zombify|4|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Class Ability|4|4|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Class Ability|4|4|4|3|3|3|0|-|-|-

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Class Ability|4|4|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|-

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Class Ability|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|-|-|-[/table]

Okay, so this is REALLY REALLY ROUGH AND IN NO WAY COMPLETE, but with a little more help here and there to make things balanced/complete, I think we can make a pretty decent class.

Quick Note: Touch of Undeath is not a spell, but rather naming what had been suggested by Jjeinn-tae earlier for his 7th level ability.

We need some abilities for the higher levels. Keep in mind, this is a base class, not a prestige class.



Ok, that is a good continuation, what's Zombify do? Is that the "Thriller" one?

I would continue the Advanced Learning progression too, giving it to us at 11, 14, 17, and 20. As the Harrower has weaker Spellcasting in general I would suggest some changes to the spells per day.

Here's my idea so far:

Harrower

20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Harrowing Song -1|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Zombify|-|-|-

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Entropic Music|-|-|-|-

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Class Ability|3|0|-|-|-

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dead Flesh|3|1|-|-|-|-

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Ghost Musician|3|2|0|-|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Touch of Undeath|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Advanced Learning, Harrowing Song -2|3|3|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Bestow Hopelessness|3|3|3|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Dead Flesh|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Advanced Learning|4|3|3|3|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Class Ability|4|4|3|3|0|-|-|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Class Ability|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|Advanced Learning|4|4|3|3|3|-|-|-|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Dead Flesh|4|4|4|3|3|0|-|-|-|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mass Zombify|4|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Advanced Learning|4|4|4|4|3|3|-|-|-|-

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Class Ability|4|4|4|4|4|3|0|-|-|-

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Class Ability|4|4|4|4|4|4|1|-|-|-

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Dead Flesh, Advanced Learning|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|-|-|-[/table]

Basically it amounts to an extra spell per day each advanced learning, and since the next level would up that same level again, I switch it to a lower level, I think this makes quite a difference in the long run.

Also spells Known from before, not counting ones given to you through advanced learning:

{table=head]level|{colsp=7}Spells Known
-|0|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|5|2*|-|-|-|-|-
5|6|3|-|-|-|-|-
6|6|3|2*|-|-|-|-
7|6|4|3|-|-|-|-
8|6|4|3|-|-|-|-
9|6|4|4|2*|-|-|-
10|6|4|4|3|-|-|-
11|6|4|4|3|-|-|-
12|6|4|4|4|2*|-|-
13|6|4|4|4|3|-|-
14|6|4|4|4|3|-|-
15|6|4|4|4|4|2*|-
16|6|4|4|4|4|3|-
17|6|4|4|4|4|3|-
18|6|4|4|4|4|4|2*
19|6|4|4|4|4|4|3
20|6|4|4|4|4|4|3
[/table]

We probably want to be cautious of increasing spells known above this.

[TelemontTanthul]

Zombify is the thriller one. Mass Zombify is like a "Mass Fascinate" kind of ability.

As for Advanced Learning, consider it done. But can you explain it to me a little more, because I always thought it was just adding a spell to your spell list. Do you actually get to cast it aside from your regular allotment of spells per day?

Still needing more suggestions for the higher level stuff.

[enigmatime]

Alright thanks for the suggestions, my friend is looking more towards a zombie bard. Any class features that you could think of, or ideas that could be implemented that would go with that theme?

I was thinking of some sort of class feature that involves the audience being zombified, much like the Fascinate ability of a regular bard. Perhaps with some differences?

Additionally, since he is dead, should he not have spells? No constitution score? etc etc.

There's always the Bonesinger. I don't remember which book it is from but it is undead.

[TelemontTanthul]

Isn't the Bonesinger a monster race? :smallconfused:

As for our Harrower class. I'm considering giving it a bit of an overhaul, incorporating abilities from the Dread Bard and Dirgesinger. Hopefully level appropriate.

Reason being is that our Cat-O-Mancer has actually proved to be a great class. We had to houserule a few things, but overall, I consider it a huge success.

So, in light of these developments, I want to give the Harrower a really cool flavor. I'm considering the following:

1. At 4th level, the Harrower will get Greater Zombify which will act like the Dominate Mind spell towards a single target. Zombify is just supposed to act like the bard's fascinate music ability.

2. The Harrower will receive 6 + Int Mod skill points per level

3. The Hit Die will become a d8 (Originally I was thinking d6, but that seems a little underpowered for this class.)

Most of these changes have been accounted for. However, Greater Zombify is not listed in the class yet, mostly because I want to see what you guys think of it.

[Jjeinn-tae]

I was hit with inspiration while away for a bit. What about one of the later abilities being a bashee shriek sort of thing? Area of effect sonic damage, fear, stun, maybe push them back too? It would have to be more powerful than Entropic Music damage wise I think, maybe 4d6 +1d6 for every 2 Harrower levels?

[TelemontTanthul]

I like it! Truly inspiration indeed. :smallbiggrin:

The obvious question then: What level would the Harrower get that ability?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmmm...I should see if I can dust off d20WTF, something a friend of mine and I worked on for a while. It featured the normal classes with alterations (the monk gains Palsy instead of Quivering Palm, the Paladin has an ability called OH GOD A LION GET IN THE CAR, and the Rogue has Sneak-a-WHAT? instead of Sneak Attack), as well as a bevy of new classes including the Death Magus (dies in an interesting way each round, affecting his allies and foes, and resurrects the following round to die again) and the Stairomancer, who specializes in conjuring staircases and pushing his enemies down them.

Needless to say, it was a strange game.

[Popertop]

The orc ninja should take the Throw Anything feat,
and throw really obnoxiously large weapons/structures/people to deal damage.
He should also wear armor that results in the highest ACP evar,
probably mountain plate, plus an extreme steel shield. Proficiency is optional.

[TelemontTanthul]

What book is the "Throw Anything" Feat in?

Any prereq's?

To Mr. Tonic,

If you have anything to offer, either for the current project (Harrower/Dread Bard) or any of the other classes (Orc Ninja, etc etc, see first post). Your insight and experience would be much appreciated.

I'm getting close to finishing the Harrower, and I believe that the Cat-O-Mancer is officially complete.

[imp_fireball]

MPSD [trait]

In addition to the alignment you've selected, you have multiple other alignments, and you could shift to any one them at any time. When you do, your behavior changes drastically - roll 1d20. This is the number of skill points that can be invested in ranks that are uninvested and reinvested into different skills, depending on the personality. You have no control over this investiture. GM decides when any shift occurs, how frequently and for how long.


What book is the "Throw Anything" Feat in?

You mean 'really throw anything'? It's from that book with the hulking hurler PrC. Can't remember name.

[imp_fireball]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160898

'Nuff said.

[Bhu]

What book is the "Throw Anything" Feat in?

Any prereq's?


It's in Complete Warrior. You need Dex 15, BAB +2

[devinkowalczyk]

Seen a gnome barbarian played well
A minotaur werebear fighter
Nothing spectacular

[TelemontTanthul]

I like the "Inspire Violence" ability of the "Punisher".

I think that it could easily be incorporated into the Harrower.

For example: If the Harrower succeeds at his Zombify ability, the following round he should be allowed to use "Inspire Violence" perhaps once per day? This would really compliment the "Dominate Mind" effect of Zombify and still keep true to the flavor, since zombies are mindless eating machines of destruction.

What do you guys think? And more importantly, what level should I put that at?

[RickGriffin]

Seen a gnome barbarian played well
A minotaur werebear fighter
Nothing spectacular

Minotaur werebull?

[DracoDei]

Hmmm...I should see if I can dust off d20WTF, something a friend of mine and I worked on for a while. It featured the normal classes with alterations (the monk gains Palsy instead of Quivering Palm, the Paladin has an ability called OH GOD A LION GET IN THE CAR, and the Rogue has Sneak-a-WHAT? instead of Sneak Attack), as well as a bevy of new classes including the Death Magus (dies in an interesting way each round, affecting his allies and foes, and resurrects the following round to die again) and the Stairomancer, who specializes in conjuring staircases and pushing his enemies down them.

Needless to say, it was a strange game.

I... think I could use this...

[devinkowalczyk]

Minotaur werebull?

That would have been awesome. And I bet a lot stronger too.
At level 10, without any real powergaming, i was dropping something like +60 on every attack with just strength stuff.