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WarKitty
2010-07-29, 02:34 PM
Ok, so my players have this habit of wanting to loot and sell EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. Like I let them into the lich's library...so they stuff as many books as they can into their collective bags of holding and try to sell them at the next town. Or one place is lit with magic glowing globes...so they take those and try to sell them. Then they want to buy the most random items as well...like they'll walk into town and want to know how much candy they can buy, or where the fancy dress shop is.

Is there any good way to determine prices on this kind of stuff? I'm not too concerned with maintaining the WBL here.

Ernir
2010-07-29, 02:37 PM
Search through the DMG/PHB/Magic Item Compendium/Arms and Equipment guide, to see whether things already have a set price. Apart from that, handwave it.

Caliphbubba
2010-07-29, 02:41 PM
I would probably do a random roll for the books. something like:

01-50% Common Books, 40g +2d10g
51-80% Uncommon Books, 200g+5d10g
81-96% Rare Books, 500g+5d6x10g
97-99% Very Rare. 1200g+1d8x100g
00% DM's Option, ie spellboook, cursed, mimic, etc

For candy, I'd probably just ad hoc it. There are some tables in the 3.0 Arms and Equipment guide for special materials and spices. might just look there. Simple sugar type candy would be pretty cheap. on the other hand, chcolate dipped truffles with a dash of pink sea salt might be a lot more pricey.

as far as clothes...I think there are guild lines for noble dress, etc in the PHB.

Marnath
2010-07-29, 02:47 PM
" You're selling three doorknobs, an exotic bird, and a Ham? Why would you think anyone here wants to buy that stuff? We're a simple farming village, Mi'lord. We have no use for such things..I'll give you 3 coppers for the ham though."

Nothing says you have to make it easy for them to sell junk.

lisiecki
2010-07-29, 02:49 PM
I had that happen to me last night actually in an Old Republic starwars game.

The players defeated a Sith Warrior.

The Jedi characters wanted to burn the Siths body, but the Solder looted, and proceed to try to sell the Warriors light-saber.

WarKitty
2010-07-29, 02:53 PM
" You're selling three doorknobs, an exotic bird, and a Ham? Why would you think anyone here wants to buy that stuff? We're a simple farming village, Mi'lord. We have no use for such things..I'll give you 3 coppers for the ham though."

Nothing says you have to make it easy for them to sell junk.

Unfortunately most of it *is* stuff they should be able to find a market for in a reasonable sized town. Like the wizard's library. It's good thinking, and I don't want to just arbitrarily say "no you can't sell that."

Besides, they spend the money on equally useless junk and have great fun with it.

ericgrau
2010-07-29, 02:58 PM
Mundane objects don't cost much. Maybe a few silvers or coppers. So just handwave it. IIRC an artisan makes 3 sp a day, and untrained labor 1 sp a day. Bear in mind many things are hand made, so many things may still cost a couple days' wages or so unless they're naturally occurring. So things like firewood instead cost cp. That can give you a rough idea.

Books are a bit more because they don't have printers. Figure about 5 sp per day of writing, sell for half, like at a library or bookseller. Most metal objects sell for the value of the weight of the metal, unless some loony is looking for a used door knob. I think there's a listed price for iron somewhere, I forget where.

Person_Man
2010-07-29, 03:04 PM
Have a frank conversation with them about what type of magic items they want.

If they want rare, powerful, interesting magic items, then they should stop acting like gypsies. For example, I ran a campaign in my homebrew setting, which is based on ancient Greece and Rome. Magic and magic items were exceptionally rare, although mythological creatures were cropping up with increasing and unexplained frequency (eventually they took the plot hook and started to investigate why). Each player gets 1 "relic" item of their choice (a family heirloom, a sword that they crafted from meteor rock, armor made from the skin of an epic beast they defeated, etc) which improved as they gained levels. We don't bother with mundane expenses like food, clothing, inn costs, etc, because I'm not an accountant and it's not fun to pretend to be one. And there was nothing interesting for them to buy beyond masterwork equipment, which they already had. (Poison and drugs and whatnot could be attained via a side quest, but no one was interested).

If they want to have a Diablo-like equipment mini-game where they are constantly trading up +1 items to +2 items for +3 items and so on, then you should let them continue in their hoarding ways. But put the onus of bookkeeping on them, not you. Increase the difficulty of encounters as needed to compensate, and let them know you are doing it. And make sure locals learn about and fear them for their locust-like ways.

The point of a game is to have fun. Let your players continue in the style that is fun for them, as long as it doesn't ruin the experience for you.

Marnath
2010-07-29, 03:06 PM
Well, i read somewhere, complete mage or something, that the empty spellbook you can buy for 15gold is the same sort of book used for Noble House geneaologies and history books, so i would think it'd be a decent starting point, with more or less cost based on the popularity of the author/subject and availability of copies. 10-25 gold maybe? If you have Stronghold builder's guide, i think it has prices for groups of books by subject.

*edit 1000gold for a book lot that gives +2 to a given subject, 5000gold for a +4 bonus and 20,000gold for a +6 bonus. The higher the bonus, the more books a set has, so pick the one that works for how many books the pc's looted.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-29, 03:07 PM
Search through the DMG/PHB/Magic Item Compendium/Arms and Equipment guide, to see whether things already have a set price. Apart from that, handwave it.

Yeah that's what I do and it's worked out fine.

WarKitty
2010-07-29, 03:08 PM
Have a frank conversation with them about what type of magic items they want.

If they want rare, powerful, interesting magic items, then they should stop acting like gypsies. For example, I ran a campaign in my homebrew setting, which is based on ancient Greece and Rome. Magic and magic items were exceptionally rare, although mythological creatures were cropping up with increasing and unexplained frequency (eventually they took the plot hook and started to investigate why). Each player gets 1 "relic" item of their choice (a family heirloom, a sword that they crafted from meteor rock, armor made from the skin of an epic beast they defeated, etc) which improved as they gained levels. We don't bother with mundane expenses like food, clothing, inn costs, etc, because I'm not an accountant and it's not fun to pretend to be one. And there was nothing interesting for them to buy beyond masterwork equipment, which they already had. (Poison and drugs and whatnot could be attained via a side quest, but no one was interested).

If they want to have a Diablo-like equipment mini-game where they are constantly trading up +1 items to +2 items for +3 items and so on, then you should let them continue in their hoarding ways. But put the onus of bookkeeping on them, not you. Increase the difficulty of encounters as needed to compensate, and let them know you are doing it. And make sure locals learn about and fear them for their locust-like ways.

The point of a game is to have fun. Let your players continue in the style that is fun for them, as long as it doesn't ruin the experience for you.

See they're not spending the money on new swords or whatnot. They're spending it on CANDY. And new dresses and colored chalk and beer. And they're typically taking the loot from the bad guys. Most of the time they don't give a crap about more powerful magic items. They all keep track of their own money, I just don't know how much to give them for various items.

Another_Poet
2010-07-29, 03:34 PM
I would tell them it's hard for you to bookkeep and come up with prices and merchants for all this stuff. I would propose to them the following deal:

1) They no longer take "trash loot" i.e. mundane books, curtains, forks, and other stuff that isn't magical/military/precious

2) You will kick in an extra +5% to the selling price of all the real loot they sell, to make up for it.

Voila, bookkeeping made easy.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-29, 03:37 PM
I would tell them it's hard for you to bookkeep and come up with prices and merchants for all this stuff. I would propose to them the following deal:

1) They no longer take "trash loot" i.e. mundane books, curtains, forks, and other stuff that isn't magical/military/precious

2) You will kick in an extra +5% to the selling price of all the real loot they sell, to make up for it.

Voila, bookkeeping made easy.
I do believe their point is in dealing with trash loot.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-29, 03:37 PM
Besides, they spend the money on equally useless junk and have great fun with it.

Then say "Damn the WBLpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

Ormagoden
2010-07-29, 03:41 PM
I would tell them it's hard for you to bookkeep and come up with prices and merchants for all this stuff. I would propose to them the following deal:

1) They no longer take "trash loot" i.e. mundane books, curtains, forks, and other stuff that isn't magical/military/precious

2) You will kick in an extra +5% to the selling price of all the real loot they sell, to make up for it.

Voila, bookkeeping made easy.

GENIUS! absolute GENIUS!

Person_Man
2010-07-29, 03:54 PM
See they're not spending the money on new swords or whatnot. They're spending it on CANDY. And new dresses and colored chalk and beer. And they're typically taking the loot from the bad guys. Most of the time they don't give a crap about more powerful magic items. They all keep track of their own money, I just don't know how much to give them for various items.

Oh, I thought you were speaking in hyperbole, and that their candy buying ways was a symptom of power gaming. Instead, it's clearly a symptom of compulsive hoarding.

Maybe you should play a game set in a modern setting. That way you can just use real life values for everything they collect and buy. Have they made a combat supplement for The Sims yet?

WarKitty
2010-07-29, 04:01 PM
Oh, I thought you were speaking in hyperbole, and that their candy buying ways was a symptom of power gaming. Instead, it's clearly a symptom of compulsive hoarding.

Maybe you should play a game set in a modern setting. That way you can just use real life values for everything they collect and buy. Have they made a combat supplement for The Sims yet?

LOL. No they did in fact ask me at one point where the local candy store was. I think they ended up with crystallized honey in the shapes of various animals. That session was special.

CapnVan
2010-07-29, 04:32 PM
If you can get your hands on a copy of FR's Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, it has prices for all sorts of weird and mundane stuff. Once you've got those prices, you should be able to riff anything else from there.

valadil
2010-07-29, 10:26 PM
I see two ways to take this.

1) Handwave it away, as previously mentioned. Say that the stolen goods cover ale, room & board, small bribes, etc. Just put an end to the bean counting.

2) Embrace it. Make this the only source of income. Instead of putting gold in a dungeon, figure out how much gold the dungeon has and buy small items with that. Obviously your PCs are enjoying this side of the game, so roll with it.

IdleMuse
2010-07-29, 11:32 PM
2) Embrace it. Make this the only source of income. Instead of putting gold in a dungeon, figure out how much gold the dungeon has and buy small items with that. Obviously your PCs are enjoying this side of the game, so roll with it.

This. Clearly there's a reason the players are doing this, and it's because they obviously enjoy that type of attention to detail in the lives of their characters. Roll with it, write up a couple of handy quick reference charts for quick pricing of various things, learn the Appraise rules, and fill the dungeons/plot-areas with cool trinkets for the players to pick up.

Just one thing; make sure that ALL your players are having fun still; I know from experience that a situation like this can be great fun for some people, and others will go along with it just because they aren't interested enough by whatever else's going on. That's symptomatic of a deeper problem.

But don't worry too much, I think this is just that you;ve got a cool bunch of players who are interested in deconstructing the setting (possibly literally) and having fun doing so. After all, that's why RPGs aren't computer games: if you really want, you CAN unscrew the doorhinges and sell them.

This also seems like a prime plot-inserting opportunity; if they love selling all the stuff they get, what happens when they sell the 'wrong' item to the 'wrong' person?

Rixx
2010-07-29, 11:36 PM
It's a good thing there's no way a lich would have any books that could be dangerous if placed into the wrong hands! You can go ahead and sell them without even looking at them, worry free.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-07-29, 11:42 PM
make them role diplomancy or somthing to see how good their bargaining is for the stuff. . . role a D% (modify the D% by their diplomacy). . . . . . thats how much (whatever type of money sounds appropriate) they get. . .

Example: you have 2 sets of ruined armor, 4 magic torches, 3 bowls, and a wardrobe fit for a noble lady. . . 200 years ago. . . they role a 55 with a +13 diplomacy. . . they get 68 gold for the lot. . . Done and DONE. . .

BobVosh
2010-07-29, 11:50 PM
I was always a horder, but never much of a seller. I have a house with every character, much to the chagrin of my current siggy, so I won't be a hobo. Rather than actually furnish it with my money, I fill it with stuff from that ancient ruin we raided. Then I stole a normal size chair from a giant's castle since it was mahogeny, the same as a desk I took from a drow noble's alter room (not actually the alter, just in the same room).

Encourage stuff like that, not petty theft for the point of 20 gold. All my characters have a large sheet filled with information where all the various art items etc that endow my house are from. My favorite one has a room of cursed items taken from an illithid necromancer. The best piece is a permentantly bleeding doll of me filled with cold iron needles.

SocratesOnFire
2010-07-30, 01:16 AM
I think if you tried to simplify this like many posters are suggesting, your players would be dissatisfied; they want to feel that they earned bonus gold through meticulous dungeon crawling and abstracting it would ruin it for them. Consider that a laborer earns 1sp/day and an artisan about 1gp/day that and feel free to assign your own prices. You can also look at the random loot prices for art objects in the DMG page 55 if you need a quick price for something like that, and the Arms and Equipment guide for more general goods.

Tyndmyr
2010-07-30, 01:33 AM
See they're not spending the money on new swords or whatnot. They're spending it on CANDY. And new dresses and colored chalk and beer. And they're typically taking the loot from the bad guys. Most of the time they don't give a crap about more powerful magic items. They all keep track of their own money, I just don't know how much to give them for various items.

You can buy a lot of candy on adventurer wages. And dresses, and colored chalk, and beer. This usually falls into the "cross five gold off your character sheet, and we'll call all that stuff good" category, unless they're searching out the finest craftsmen and such.

DabblerWizard
2010-07-30, 04:04 AM
The OPs players sound like they enjoy taking part in a niche market of obscure objects... This can be quite entertaining.

My players have asked for everything from paper and ink, tobacco and rolling paper, to multi-colored bows and ribbons for horses.

This kind of silliness can be both fun and entertaining, but if only one of your players is into it, like in my case, don't give it more time than it deserves.


Then again, there are players who see the line, and do their best to go as far past it as possible.

Here's an example of overboard pillaging:

"Can I use the slain creature's intestines as jumping rope?" - This is from a college student mind you.

I said no. I think I made the right decision. :smallsigh:

Vitruviansquid
2010-07-30, 04:13 AM
I would just pre-determine (arbitrarily, or dice roll if I feel like it) how much money's worth of items they find in a given dungeon and declare that they've found that much worth of whatever the players thought to loot.

Unless you and all your players are more into dealing magic books than having actual adventures, I don't see why you would give looting objects that much attention.

Morph Bark
2010-07-30, 04:26 AM
Then say "Damn the WBLpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

This. If they have a lot of fun with it, why would you want to change it?

Lysander
2010-07-30, 07:18 AM
2) Embrace it. Make this the only source of income. Instead of putting gold in a dungeon, figure out how much gold the dungeon has and buy small items with that. Obviously your PCs are enjoying this side of the game, so roll with it.


This. Clearly there's a reason the players are doing this, and it's because they obviously enjoy that type of attention to detail in the lives of their characters. Roll with it, write up a couple of handy quick reference charts for quick pricing of various things, learn the Appraise rules, and fill the dungeons/plot-areas with cool trinkets for the players to pick up.

You could actually just list the random loot they find in terms of the price they can sell it for. "You discover around 400gp of rare books, a few oil paintings all together worth around 2000gp, a rack of rusty metal weapons that are worthless in battle but might be worth 50gp or so to a collector..." etc. Then unless the player wants to keep any of it to decorate their house for some reason, just assume they sell it for that much at the next town and give them that much gold. No need to roleplay out haggling with merchants.

Of course, the players should explain how they're transporting all this stuff. You should require that they have a bag of holding or at least a cart and a mule.

BobVosh
2010-07-30, 07:31 AM
Here's an example of overboard pillaging:

"Can I use the slain creature's intestines as jumping rope?" - This is from a college student mind you.

I said no. I think I made the right decision. :smallsigh:

I've used them to make condoms before. I stand by my research in presenting it to the DM.

I may take too much pride in such, but you will never take that pride away!


You could actually just list the random loot they find in terms of the price they can sell it for. "You discover around 400gp of rare books, a few oil paintings all together worth around 2000gp, a rack of rusty metal weapons that are worthless in battle but might be worth 50gp or so to a collector..." etc. Then unless the player wants to keep any of it to decorate their house for some reason, just assume they sell it for that much at the next town and give them that much gold. No need to roleplay out haggling with merchants.

I figured that was a given for how he has been doing it but he hasn't priced everything (and these guys sound like they look through the kitchen cupboards for loose screws and mysterious pieces of metal that noone remembers what it is for) to sell.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-30, 07:35 AM
You could actually just list the random loot they find in terms of the price they can sell it for. "You discover around 400gp of rare books, a few oil paintings all together worth around 2000gp, a rack of rusty metal weapons that are worthless in battle but might be worth 50gp or so to a collector..." etc. Then unless the player wants to keep any of it to decorate their house for some reason, just assume they sell it for that much at the next town and give them that much gold. No need to roleplay out haggling with merchants.

Of course, the players should explain how they're transporting all this stuff. You should require that they have a bag of holding or at least a cart and a mule.

I do believe they WANT to roleplay haggling.

Psyx
2010-07-30, 07:41 AM
1) They no longer take "trash loot" i.e. mundane books, curtains, forks, and other stuff that isn't magical/military/precious

2) You will kick in an extra +5% to the selling price of all the real loot they sell, to make up for it.

3) Insist that 25% of their encumbrance value is taken up with this junk!

Lysander
2010-07-30, 08:12 AM
I figured that was a given for how he has been doing it but he hasn't priced everything (and these guys sound like they look through the kitchen cupboards for loose screws and mysterious pieces of metal that noone remembers what it is for) to sell.

If they're trying to sell any random crap, then they're basically trying to run a garage sale. It should be treated the same way. They put a table up in the marketplace with a collection of random decaying objects. Describe how over the course of an entire boring day they sold 15cp of goods.

Cyrion
2010-07-30, 09:37 AM
If you're not really worried about WBL and your characters aren't working on converting door hinges to +5 weapons, then just assign whatever price seems right at the time- for both what they sell and what they buy. Make the two about equal and don't stress over exact bookkeeping. Focus instead on the interesting NPCs they meet trying to sell and buy odd stuff.