Eldritch Blast Metamagic

[Lix Lorn]

I think you should be able to use Eldritch Blast with metamagic.

There were two ways I'd consider doing this:

Method One:
Reduce the number of damage die dealt by your Eldritch Blast by the total number of spell levels the metamagic feats would normally raise a spell's level by. In addition, reduce the DC of any saving throws by this amount.
(this loss of damage die is calculated before the effects of the metamagic feats.)
If this would result in less than one die of damage, the feats may not be applied.

Method Two:
Treat your Warlock level as a number of levels lower equal to the total number of spell levels the metamagic feats would normally raise a spell's level by. Use this modified level to calculate Save DCs and eldritch blast damage.

The former method is closer to how spells work, but results in much weaker Eldritch blasts.

The latter SEEMS to work. My only worry is that you could use powerful metamagic at too early a level.

For either method, as a spontaneous 'caster', applying metamagic changes the EB to a full round action (unless its Quicken)

My favourite potential Meta?
20th level Warlock.
Use a Hellrime blast to deal cold damage (plus Fort vs Dex loss)
Energy Admixture to add Electricity. (-4 effective levels. 7d6 damage base.)
7d6 cold + 7d6 electric (Fort save DC 18+Cha mod, or Dex reduced by 2)
Born of the three thunders
7d6 cold +3.5d6 electric + 3.5d6 sonic (Fort save or Dex reduced by two, Fort save or stunned, reflex save or prone, all DC 18+Cha mod)
Lord of the uttercold

3.5d6 cold + 3.5d6 negative + 3.5d6 electric + 3.5d6 sonic (Fort save or Dex reduced by two, Fort save or stunned, reflex save or prone, all DC 18+Cha mod)

Any comments? Is this balanced? Method one or method two?

[The Dark Fiddler]

...what happened to the spell-like ability metamagics? Or are you talking about ones that hadn't been adapted for SLAs?

No knowledge of the class so I can't really say much. Sorry.

[Hyooz]

I'd say borrow from metabreath feats. Delay your next blast by X rounds to use Y metablast feat.

[jiriku]

Me likey option #1.

However, to really get a good feel for the impact, you'll want to go down the list of metamagic feats and ask yourself, "how could I break the game with this" for each one. You've mentioned that you don't have many books, so may I recommend Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf)?

Also, consider how you'll rule for the various feats and class features that reduce the cost of metamagic for spells.

[lesser_minion]

You already can use limited amounts of metamagic with Eldritch Blast -- all of the Sudden Metamagic feats work, and so do Metamagic Spell-Like Ability.

If your DM's cool with you making up new versions of those feats, you should be good to go. The downside would be being limited to a set number of UPD.

[Frog Dragon]

Method one has problems. Say, you have empower spell and your EB would deal 6d6 damage. It now deals 4d6+50%, which is pretty much the same as 6d6. No real effect. But, say you EB deals 8d6, and you use the same. You upped one damage die (6d6+50%=9d6) so there is no reason NOT to use it.

[lesser_minion]

Yes... I think I'd suggest just giving the character limited uses, or "you have seven uses of metamagic per day".

[Prime32]

Method one has problems. Say, you have empower spell and your EB would deal 6d6 damage. It now deals 4d6+50%, which is pretty much the same as 6d6. No real effect. But, say you EB deals 8d6, and you use the same. You upped one damage die (6d6+50%=9d6) so there is no reason NOT to use it.Is a feat which increases your EB damage by 1d6, but only at high levels, really that overpowered?

[Frog Dragon]

Is a feat which increases your EB damage by 1d6, but only at high levels, really that overpowered?
Not at all. But the effect is rather weird and I think it's just not good when in causes such a disconnect. At low levels, it penalizes, later, it does nothing. Then it gives you a +1d6. Wot.
Edit: Instead of this. I could get behind.

Powerful Blast
Your eldritch blast deals more damage than usual
Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast +2d6
Benefit: Your eldritch blast deals +1d6 more damage. This extra damage does not count for the purpose of prerequisites

Improved Powerful Blast
Moar Damage.
Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast +5d6
Benefit: Your eldritch blast deals +2d6 more damage. This extra damage does not count for the purpose of prerequisites. Stacks with Powerful Blast.

I'd like this more than Empower Spell weirdness.

[Prime32]

You could always reduce the level penalties by 1 (ie. -1d6 for Empower).

Metapsionics have lower costs than metamagics since you need to expend your focus when you use them (every 2 power points effectively increases the power by 1 level).
Burrowing Power: +2
Chain Power: +6
Delay Power: +2
Empower Power: +2
Enlarge Power: +0
Extend Power: +2
Maximise Power: +4
Opportunity Power: +6
Quicken Power: +6
Twin Power: +6
Unconditional Power: +8
Widen Power: +4

For damaging psionic powers, each power point could normally be put into +1d6 damage and +0.5 DC.

[Lix Lorn]

Well, In order:
I don't much like the Sudden Metamagics, nor the SLA metamagics. Only being able to do something a certain number of times in a day... eehhh.

The metabreath feats idea makes sense, but how many rounds of inaction is a spell level worth? Hard to convert.

I think the worst one I've found is Empower. With either method, that allows 12d6 at level 20.
Intensify, an epic metamagic, allows 12 damage with method 1 and 72 with method 2.
Quicken would allow you to do 14d6 or 16d6 (method 1 or 2) in a round.
Quicken could be a problem. Maybe if you Quicken an eldritch blast, the lost damage die/levels apply to all EBs that round?

As far as the thing with 'why not use empower?' goes, then it's exactly the same with psionics.

Edit:

Also, consider how you'll rule for the various feats and class features that reduce the cost of metamagic for spells.
Easy. Treat it as one less level-to a minimum of one, same as normal.
For example: Use Quicken. You have an ability that reduces metamagic costs by one.
With method 1, you only reduce damage by 3d6. With method 2, you only reduce your effective level by 3.

[jiriku]

Not at all. But the effect is rather weird and I think it's just not good when in causes such a disconnect. At low levels, it penalizes, later, it does nothing. Then it gives you a +1d6.

What's wrong with this? Spells work the same way. This is why no one uses empower on a ray of frost, people rarely use it on scorching ray, but everyone loves it on orb of fire.

[Frog Dragon]

I'm pretty sure there are no spells that actually lose damage by empowering.

[Hyooz]

Another recommendation?

Just take the meta-blank effects you want and make them Eldritch Essence/Shape invocations.

Empower and Maximize would be rough to find a system to make them balanced while still worth using. Subtracting from blast damage to add blast damage is silly, and if it's not costing the warlock anything (as method 2) then there's no reason to ever NOT do these things.

As invocations, suddenly there's a choice to be made. Empowering my blast is good, but will I do that over some other essence invocation? And is it worth it to me to spend an invocation on this?

You could even make them "generic" invocations, so they can take up the slot of either an essence or a shape invocation, instead of one or the other.

[Lix Lorn]

That's better, but then you can only get a total of four. Plus, you only get four invocations, you'll wanna put em on something else, no?

I quite like the system I have now. I know that there's really no point in not Empowering something, but I don't really get why that's bad.
A caveat on Method 2 that if you lose any levels, you always lose at least one damage die might be best...

[jiriku]

I'm pretty sure there are no spells that actually lose damage by empowering.

Correct. But there are certainly spell slots that lose damage by empowering. And it is spell slots that are expended, not spells. Let's say my best available slot is 2nd level. I can cast scorching ray, melf's acid arrow, or something similar from this slot (to choose spells that are similar to an eldritch blast). Or I can cast an empowered cantrip. Empowering a spell into that spell slot is very inefficient from a raw DPS perspective.

OTOH, say I have a 4th level slot available. I can cast enervation or orb of fire from this slot, or I can cast an empowered scorching ray. This example is less clear-cut, but in some scenarios, the empower is a good option and in some scenarios it is not.

Suppose I have a 6th level slot available. I can cast freezing sphere or disintigrate in this slot, or I can cast an empowered enervation or empowered orb of fire. There are now many scenarios where I'd rather use the empowered spell, although in certain situations the reduced save DC might be unacceptable.

Does that make sense?

[Lord Vukodlak]

The Eldritch Blast was changed in errata.

“An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell. If you apply a blast shape or eldritch essence invocation to your eldritch blast (see page 130), your eldritch blast uses the level equivalent of the shape
or essence.”

This vastly improves the usefulness of spell-like-ability metamagic.

[Lix Lorn]

That makes EB itself worse...
I guess, but I'm not so fond of per-day limits.

[Lord Vukodlak]

That makes EB itself worse...
I guess, but I'm not so fond of per-day limits.

How so? Glove of Invunerability becomes more of a problem but you can modify the level to get through by applying essences and blast shapes.

[Lix Lorn]

It reduces save DCs, mostly.

[Hyooz]

Does that make sense?

Not really. You don't lose anything throwing an Eldritch Blast, so a method that has you always Empowering your EB at certain levels and never doing it other levels isn't nearly the same as comparing an empowered spell vs. a spell of the same level. With one, there's a choice, and with the other, it's either strictly better or strictly worse.


That's better, but then you can only get a total of four. Plus, you only get four invocations, you'll wanna put em on something else, no?


I'm confused. Warlocks get 12 invocations over 20 levels. Where is four coming from?

[Lix Lorn]

Actually, you DO lose something by meta-ing an EB. It becomes a Full Round Action.
That's been up there since I first posted but I keep forgetting to say it...

And whoah, so you do. I missed that. DXD

[Zaydos]

The metabreath feats idea makes sense, but how many rounds of inaction is a spell level worth? Hard to convert.

Simple the metabreath feats already mimic metamagic and valued it at 1 round/spell level.


I think the worst one I've found is Empower. With either method, that allows 12d6 at level 20.


Method one should only give you 7d6 x 1.5 or 10.5d6 not a full 12d6 as it lowers the number of dice by 2 and you only get 9d6 at Lv 20.

As for the total just think Hellfire Warlock with a binder dib already deals 14d6 per round as a standard action. This only gets really problematic if combined with something like Hellfire Warlock.

As for Quicken normally spontaneous casters can't use it so maybe you could go that route, or else the problem becomes not Quickened but Quickened Blast (5d6) followed by Empowered Blast (10.5d6).

[Lord Vukodlak]

It reduces save DCs, mostly.

No it doesn't Eldritch Blast has no saving throw unless its modified by an essence. The essences have their own independent DC's.

[Lix Lorn]

Hm. That would make sense then, but to be honest, I like the system I have now.

I beg your pardon, I thought Empower was one level. (Curtsey)

I think it's silly to make Quicken not work for spontaneous casters. So, I think the idea I had earlier of saying 'If you apply metamagic to an eldritch blast, you must apply the same metamagic to all other eldritch blasts you fire before your next round. If you can't, such as with Quicken, you lose damage dice as if you had.'

Yes, but if you lose a lower level Essence than your Eldritch Blast, you lose out.

[Niezck]

Simply allow Rapid Metamagic to function for the Warlock? Quicken problem solved.

[Lix Lorn]

TBH, if it were my game, I'd just say 'applying metamagic to a spontaneous caster's spell makes it a full round action-unless it's Quicken.'

But otherwise, a sensible solution.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Simply allow Rapid Metamagic to function for the Warlock? Quicken problem solved.

100% Unnecessary for warlocks.

How do you suppose the quicken spell-like ability feat works? How do you suppose a balor gets to quicken his telekinesis spell 3/day. Well it works because the increased casting time only applies to metamagic feats,

Quicken Spell-Like ability is a [general] feat not a [metamagic feat]. The same is true for any xxx spell-like ability feat.

A few things from the RAW and the FAQ

“An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell. If you apply a blast shape or eldritch essence invocation to your eldritch blast (see page 130), your eldritch blast uses the level equivalent of the shape
or essence.”
And

Can a warlock apply Empower Spell-Like Ability or
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Monster Manual, pages 303–
304) to his eldritch blast? What level would he have to be to
do so?
Thanks to the official errata for Complete Arcane (which
established that an eldritch blast is “the equivalent of a 1stlevel
spell”), the answer to this question is yes.
The chart on page 304 of the Monster Manual describes the
caster level required to empower or quicken a spell-like ability.
A warlock needs to have a caster level of 6th to empower his
eldritch blast, or a caster level of 10th to quicken it.
If the warlock applies an eldritch essence or blast shape
invocation to his eldritch blast, the blast’s level equivalent (and
thus the required caster level) increases. Empowering an
eldritch cone (the equivalent of a 5th-level spell) requires the
warlock to be 14th level, while quickening a frightful blast (the
equivalent of a 2nd-level spell) requires a 12th-level warlock.


Lix Lorn I don't see how your system is better then the current one, as it stands a Warlock gets to use xxx spell-like ability fairly effectively.

[Lix Lorn]

Because, as is, you can only do it a certain number of times a day.

[Niezck]

Not to mention the fact there're very, very few XXX SLA feats hanging around. Not nearly as many as there are metamagics.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Not to mention the fact there're very, very few XXX SLA feats hanging around. Not nearly as many as there are metamagics.
Except your method means there is either no reason NOT to use the metafeat as it will always be of benefit or there is no reason to use it as the damage lost is greater then the damage gained such as by empower.

You could use the current system and simply add new xxx SLA feats.
Complete Arcane adds Heighten Spell-like ability and maximize spell-like ability.
So why not add more xx SLA feats.

[Lix Lorn]

That also.
Plus, all the fun, kooky ones are NOT existent in Sudden or SLA forms.

[fil kearney]

+1 on metabreath feats... works great for the dragon adept and regular ol' dragons.. plus existing mechanics (typically) trump making up new mechanics... my .02 for the day.

[Soulblazer87]

Nice idea and it could work, at least in some cases. I mean, Energy substituting from cold to sonic in Hellrime is kinda... well, weird don't you think?

But, if you want to juice up (or just give some options to) your warlock, I got two feats if you like them:


Eldritch Charge [Arcane]
You can charge your eldritch blast for a bit more 'oomph', at the cost of time.
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blast 3D6, Knowledge (Arcana) 10 ranks
Benefits: You can charge up your eldritch blast. For every full-round you charge, add your eldritch blast damage one more time. You can only charge your blast for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier and can hold it only for one extra round only.
Example: Morthos at level 9, with an Intelligence score of 14 can charge for two rounds. So, the first round of charge, he adds his 5D6 damage to his next eldritch blast. If he wanted to charge for the next round, he would end up unleashing a total of 15D6 points of damage at the third round (two rounds to charge and an extra to fire it).

Eldritch Duality [Arcane]
You can mix and match at will, unleashing eldritch blasts of immense power or peculiar shapes.
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blast 4D6, Knowledge (Arcana) 12 ranks
Benefits: There are actually two ways to use this feat. Regardless of way, it can be used a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier per hour. You can either choose to mix two eldritch essenses in the same blast. If they deal damage, half of that damage is from the first essense and the rest if from the second. If they invoke some sort of special effect, then both of them are invoked without adverse effect on the warlock. However, you may choose to combine two blast shape invocations. First, you choose the first one which must be one of the following: Eldritch Glaive, Eldritch Spear, Eldritch Chain or Eldritch Line. At any point and during their normal effects (such as, a target hit by Eldritch chain or any square during an Eldritch Line), you may stop the progress of the first shape invocation and begin a second one of any type, as long as it is different. If it would matter, you may choose the direction of that second eldritch shape as if you were there yourself.

Eldritch Charge may seem overpowered, but in my campaign I allow for multiple attacks via Eldritch Blast (as long as the targets are within 30 feet), so it isn't that much more powerful. I mean, sure, with a high enough intelligence and level, you could unleash 45d6 points of damage, but first; you would be an obvious target, second; you would need like five rounds to charge it up that much and third; a wizard spamming his 'save or die' spells is much more dangerous than that...

The warlock may really seem like a strong character to play (unlimited uses of spells, touch attack for damage etc), but he doesn't have anything near the immense heavy artillery of a wizard, not even a low level one such as the fireball! So, yeah, we need some more power for our 'locks.

[Starbuck_II]

I'd say borrow from metabreath feats. Delay your next blast by X rounds to use Y metablast feat.

I'd say 1 rd per spell increase.

So Empower means 2 rounds can't empower. THis can be changed to 1 with Rapid recharge feat (another metablast feat).

[Hyooz]

Eldritch Charge [Arcane]
You can charge your eldritch blast for a bit more 'oomph', at the cost of time.
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blast 3D6, Knowledge (Arcana) 10 ranks
Benefits: You can charge up your eldritch blast. For every full-round you charge, add your eldritch blast damage one more time. You can only charge your blast for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier and can hold it only for one extra round only.
Example: Morthos at level 9, with an Intelligence score of 14 can charge for two rounds. So, the first round of charge, he adds his 5D6 damage to his next eldritch blast. If he wanted to charge for the next round, he would end up unleashing a total of 15D6 points of damage at the third round (two rounds to charge and an extra to fire it).

This is straight-up worse than just firing off three EBs. You put all of your offense on one attack roll instead of three - with three, you can do 1/3 or 2/3 the damage, and alter your shape/essence invocations used round to round. I can't imagine a world I'd want to spend three rounds doing nothing to attack once.

[Soulblazer87]

Yes and no. Point is, it can help if you can charge outside combat and snipe someone from afar (call me Eldritch Spear). You can also apply blast shape and essence abilities. The point was mostly to get rid of stuff that has immense damage reduction of some sort, like a castle wall or door. Think about it, a 27D6 damage with vitriolic blast would not only hurt bad, but also the vitriolic blast's secondary damage would also get multiplied. I know it's not that useful, but my warlock is multiclassed into tenken (a rogue/fighter/monk character that rocks and can be found in the DnD wikia), with quite a few ranks in stealth and acrobatic skills. More than a couple of times, I've leapt away when I knew company was arriving to charge up the eldritch blast and open combat with a nice advantage. Besides, is it so hard to imagine getting a Least invocation that allows you to create illusions? Just place an illusion over yourself just sitting aroudn doing nothing, while you charge up your widened Eldritch Doom in the middle of the King's throne room. Even if it doesn't kill everyone, it will give you a nice advantage to start the fight with. Or that's at least what I think.

[Lix Lorn]

Why would a sonic hellrime not make sense? Fluff is mutable. A little creative modification fixes all.
'The sonic vibrations actually makes tiny cracks in the targets bones. Although they heal quickly, due to their small size, they reduce the target's dexterity...'

Eldritch Charge is somewhere between overpowered and underpowered.
Eldritch Duality is pretty cool though. :)

[Soulblazer87]

I see your point with hellrime. I just didn't think about it enough it seems and for that, I apologize.

Eldritch charge is a niche type ability to have. A feat-filler if you like that can be very nasty if used properly (Flee the Scene while you let your image speak and you get ready to blast your way out of there). I agree though that in most cases it's pointless. Still, if you have a class like the Eldritch Weaver (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Eldritch_Weaver_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) with its immense spread of blast shapes (not to mention a nice widen meta feat), you can unleash horrific damage on a wide area, a good way to blast open the doors of a castle you're trying to siege, or say 'Hullo thar!' to the not-so-friendly neighborhood dragon. Really up to the user.

Eldritch duality can be very nasty. Imagine blasting everyone with eldritch chain and then topping it off with an eldritch doom. In case you also have Eldritch charge, it doubles the damage of both blast shapes, which means you can unleash a veritable hell on your enemies. For example, vitriolic blast+Eldritch chain+eldritch doom, charged for three rounds at level 20: that's four times your eldritch blast, 36D6 acid damage if you don't have hellfire warlock levels, hitting everything in a chain and then blowing them up with an eldritch doom, dealing a whopping 72D6 damage, about half of which will strike again next round, ignoring spell resistance...

See where I'm going with these? Yes, Eldritch charge is weak on its own, but with another feat or essense, it can really rack up damage to make the warlock at least be a threat. It may not beat up something instantly, but it sure as hell does good job of opening a fight.

Anyway, I think something along the lines of Sudden Metamagic but with recharge times per hour instead of day would be appropriate. Not slow enough to have to roll out planning sheets and tactic books, but you won't be blasting everything around you with empowered, maximized, widened vitriolic Hellfire blasts...Though you could very well do it once or twice, but not every round. Overkill is Wizard/Sorcerer domain.

[Lix Lorn]

I see your point with hellrime. I just didn't think about it enough it seems and for that, I apologize.
Thank you.


Eldritch charge is a niche type ability to have. A feat-filler if you like that can be very nasty if used properly (Flee the Scene while you let your image speak and you get ready to blast your way out of there). I agree though that in most cases it's pointless. Still, if you have a class like the Eldritch Weaver (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Eldritch_Weaver_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) with its immense spread of blast shapes (not to mention a nice widen meta feat), you can unleash horrific damage on a wide area, a good way to blast open the doors of a castle you're trying to siege, or say 'Hullo thar!' to the not-so-friendly neighborhood dragon. Really up to the user.
Oh, I know you certainly can use it, I just dunno how often.


Eldritch duality can be very nasty. Imagine blasting everyone with eldritch chain and then topping it off with an eldritch doom. In case you also have Eldritch charge, it doubles the damage of both blast shapes, which means you can unleash a veritable hell on your enemies. For example, vitriolic blast+Eldritch chain+eldritch doom, charged for three rounds at level 20: that's four times your eldritch blast, 36D6 acid damage if you don't have hellfire warlock levels, hitting everything in a chain and then blowing them up with an eldritch doom, dealing a whopping 72D6 damage, about half of which will strike again next round, ignoring spell resistance...
Like I said. Cool. XD


See where I'm going with these? Yes, Eldritch charge is weak on its own, but with another feat or essense, it can really rack up damage to make the warlock at least be a threat. It may not beat up something instantly, but it sure as hell does good job of opening a fight.
I guess.


Anyway, I think something along the lines of Sudden Metamagic but with recharge times per hour instead of day would be appropriate. Not slow enough to have to roll out planning sheets and tactic books, but you won't be blasting everything around you with empowered, maximized, widened vitriolic Hellfire blasts...Though you could very well do it once or twice, but not every round. Overkill is Wizard/Sorcerer domain.
I don't like imposing per day or per hour or per anything limits on it.
Besides... this is homebrew. Either we remove the overkill from the Tier 1s, or we ADD it to everything else. I favour the latter.

[Soulblazer87]

Well, it's a point of view really. I just nerf the tier 1's (oh the fun when you tell a Power Word:Kill spammer that he's permanently mute... or that his spamming of Phantasmal Killer has made him hallucinate all the time...). Or I bash them. Hard. Like sending waves upon waves of minions at them. Small ones, like whole warbands of orcs and goblins. They hold on for some time, but eventually, their spells run out and they are left with a staff or dagger against say... 30-40 skelletons. Given as most wizards are arrogant enough to wade into dungeons wearing their underwear only... well, you can see the fun in that.

Anyway, the per hour limitation was mostly to prevent a warlock from maximizing all of his eldritch blasts. If it's per hour, he can do it once or twice in combat but save the last shot for the case someone attacks them. A per day limitation in such an important feature would cause a warlock to have to calculate chances and potential and whatnot just to fire off a bloody empowered eldritch blast. Remember, the sudden metamagic feats may have a per day limitation, but they also include having the normal feat, which has no such problem.

I guess it's all about the DM and character. After all, all homebrews should be taken with a bit of salt and a lot of study to work out kinks that individual DMs may not like in their games. Some DMs may like giving a warlock infinite sudden maximizations of his eldritch blast. I wouldn't. But since it's my personnal opinion (and at least some part of guilt in seeing a wizard decimate whole bloody armies of goblinoids at level five and a bunch of wands), I try for the middle ground.

Maybe we should give the warlock effects like 'If you hit twice with a hellrime blast at the enemy in one round and he fails both saves he is slowed for 2 rounds'. Or something like that.

As for Eldritch charge, an easy way to beef it up would be to add a +2 to the DC of any save the target is forced to make due to an essence per each round of charging. Similarly, it should increase the caster level for spell penetration purposes by an equal amount. How would that sound to you?

[Lix Lorn]

Well, it's a point of view really. I just nerf the tier 1's (oh the fun when you tell a Power Word:Kill spammer that he's permanently mute... or that his spamming of Phantasmal Killer has made him hallucinate all the time...). Or I bash them. Hard. Like sending waves upon waves of minions at them. Small ones, like whole warbands of orcs and goblins. They hold on for some time, but eventually, their spells run out and they are left with a staff or dagger against say... 30-40 skelletons. Given as most wizards are arrogant enough to wade into dungeons wearing their underwear only... well, you can see the fun in that.
I dunno that'd work, but it's your call. :/


Anyway, the per hour limitation was mostly to prevent a warlock from maximizing all of his eldritch blasts. If it's per hour, he can do it once or twice in combat but save the last shot for the case someone attacks them. A per day limitation in such an important feature would cause a warlock to have to calculate chances and potential and whatnot just to fire off a bloody empowered eldritch blast. Remember, the sudden metamagic feats may have a per day limitation, but they also include having the normal feat, which has no such problem.
Maximise is +3 spell levels. Level 20 Warlock, with my system, could, as a FRA, Maximised Edritch Blast for 36 damage. Or 9d6 as a standard action. I think that's enough of a difference in itself.


I guess it's all about the DM and character. After all, all homebrews should be taken with a bit of salt and a lot of study to work out kinks that individual DMs may not like in their games. Some DMs may like giving a warlock infinite sudden maximizations of his eldritch blast. I wouldn't. But since it's my personnal opinion (and at least some part of guilt in seeing a wizard decimate whole bloody armies of goblinoids at level five and a bunch of wands), I try for the middle ground.
Mhm.


Maybe we should give the warlock effects like 'If you hit twice with a hellrime blast at the enemy in one round and he fails both saves he is slowed for 2 rounds'. Or something like that.
Sounds complex.


As for Eldritch charge, an easy way to beef it up would be to add a +2 to the DC of any save the target is forced to make due to an essence per each round of charging. Similarly, it should increase the caster level for spell penetration purposes by an equal amount. How would that sound to you?
Makes sense to me.

[Epsilon Rose]

Hmm, you know I just had an odd (and probably bad) idea. Why not make them sort of like maneuvers: you can use each once, or maybe get a certain number of slots per feat that you can fill as you like, and the refresh them with an action of some sort and have more powerful meta-magics take up either more slots or require longer actions to refresh?

[Lix Lorn]

That... that'd work.

[Soulblazer87]

Hmm, you know I just had an odd (and probably bad) idea. Why not make them sort of like maneuvers: you can use each once, or maybe get a certain number of slots per feat that you can fill as you like, and the refresh them with an action of some sort and have more powerful meta-magics take up either more slots or require longer actions to refresh?

Yep, that would work. As long as someone sits down and makes the whole thing. I never studied maneuvres anyway, so it has to be simple enough a newbie could use it...