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View Full Version : Ideas for a Wizard based necromancer?



Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-29, 10:42 PM
I've always disliked how Wizards are generally bad necromancers, however, I have found ways to make them at least somwhat able to compete with clerics in the undead horde department. The main one using the following tricks..

Wizard(Necromancer)/Something else/Master Specialist
ACFs: Enhanced Undead, Domain granted abilities

How the build is meant to work is simple. It's a archetypal, black robed necromancer with a rather sizable army of undead to hide behind as he casts necromancy spells to hurt and debuff enemies. In turn, due to certain class features those spells he casts make his undead even scarier then normal. With the domain granted abilities ACF this wizard can gain the granted power of the deathbound domain at level 5, thus increasing the size of his army. Enhanced undead pushes him back to standard wizard spells per day but bolsters the power of his army to a rather frightening level.

The Master Specialist levels are what really make this guy nasty, however. Master Specialist give this undead master the ability to grant his undead hordes all kinds of boosts and extra abilities every time he casts a necromancy spell. In addition to this, by RAW expanded spellbook allows him to add any necromancy spell to his spell list including ones from other class' spell lists because the rules never specify which list these spells can be taken from. This is why MS is taken so late. You can nab stuff like General of Undeath, Destruction, Mass Inflict ____ Wounds ect.. from the cleric list for your own, making you an even more dangerous force. Combined General of Undeath and the deathbound domain your ACF granted you and you will have a rather large undead army to fight for you while you cast spells, many of which will in turn make your undead army even scarier due to the master specialist class features. Corpsecrafter stuff can make your undead even more dangerous. In fact, between corpsecrafter, the enhanced undead ACF and the master specialist boosts your undead will be far scarier then anything a DN or cleric can animate, even if the cleric is using that undead bolstering feat. So while the DN has you beat for quantity, you beat him in quality, so long as you are casting necromancy spells, that is.

However, this build is not complete, it needs a lot of things and that's why I'm posting here. I want ideas for feats, a possible 2nd PrC to include in the build and a level spread which allows me to do what I want with this build. Oh, and as for the question "Why not just play a DN?" Simple, because this guy will have wizard levels, which means unlike a DN I can do so much more then necromancy, but yet still be a decent necromancer. The DN is an awesome necromancer that can to little else but necromancy. This guy is meant to be a good necromancer who has all the other tricks that come with having wizard levels.

Also, while I am not sure it would work, could master specialist be taken earlier to gain animate dead as a level 3 due to it being a level 3 on the cleric list?(Since again, going strictly by the text, the expanded spellbook class ability can get you spells of your specialized school from any list, so would taking the level 3 version from the cleric list be legal by a strict, by the text interpretation?)

dextercorvia
2010-07-29, 10:52 PM
Arcane Disciple with Death or Undeath domain gets you animate dead as a 3rd level spell (not a lot else though).

Keld Denar
2010-07-29, 11:17 PM
At low levels, Split Ray (+2) from Complete Arcane is great for Necromancers. Split Ray of Enfeeblement neuters 2 foes instead of one, Split Ray of Exhaustion essentially removes the save, and Split Ray Enervation is better than the 9th level Energy Drain.

Kosjsjach
2010-07-30, 01:39 AM
According to the Revised Necromancer Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook), there is one thing wizard does better than cleric or dread necro: the Uttercold Assault Necromancer. The basic premise is using Energy Subbed (Cold) evocations (Wall of Fire is great for this) that deal half-cold-half-negative-energy damage, healing your skeletons and harming your allies.

I built (but of course didn't get to play) a Necropolitan Gray Elf Uttercold Necromancer. He had the Arcane Disciple (Undeath domain) feat, getting him the Desecrate spell and Animate Dead one level earlier. As his prerequisite Metamagic feat I chose Sudden Widen for an extra-huge Wall of Fire. He had a bat familiar and a penchant for Hawaiian-style shirts.

faceroll
2010-07-30, 01:40 AM
Fell drain gets you wights, but you have to find a way to control them.

Olo Demonsbane
2010-07-30, 02:09 AM
The errata for Master Specialist prevents you from getting spells off other classes lists. It's stupid, but RAW is RAW :smallannoyed:

Also, the DN gets a class feature similar to Enhanced Undead when he gets his massive undead army. So, sorry, the wizard will still not be better at undead creation. Still shouldn't stop you though...that's the fun part of wizards.

Endarire
2010-07-30, 02:28 AM
While it's an unusual path, a Necromancer/Master Specialist/Sevenfold Veil can make for an awesome sight.

No one expects the mage with the pretty rainbow class features to have an undead army!

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-30, 06:46 AM
Uttercold Assault necromancer is awesome, but from what I remember that class is frank and K created homebrew. If I am wrong please correct me on this and point me to the proper sourcebook but last time I check it was in fact a frank and K class, and not ever DM will allow frank and K materal.

hamishspence
2010-07-30, 06:51 AM
Nope- it's an ordinary Necromancer using the Lord of the Uttercold feat from an official WoTC book (I think Complete Arcane).

Caliphbubba
2010-07-30, 06:52 AM
Uttercold Assault necromancer is awesome, but from what I remember that class is frank and K created homebrew. If I am wrong please correct me on this and point me to the proper sourcebook but last time I check it was in fact a frank and K class, and not ever DM will allow frank and K materal.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure the feats Lord of the Uttercold and Energy Substitution are from Complete Arcane. It sounds like those are what you need to pull this Uttercold Assult Necro off with. If there is a homebrew class I am unaware of it.

Edit:Swordsage'd

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-30, 07:29 AM
There is a homebrew class by frank and K which is called the "uttercold assault necromancer." However, now that I think of it the aforementioned feats may actually be entry requirements for that class, but I have to check.

Runestar
2010-07-30, 09:16 AM
The errata for Master Specialist prevents you from getting spells off other classes lists. It's stupid, but RAW is RAW :smallannoyed:

Funny, I see it as clarification as to how the ability was originally intended to work. :smallbiggrin:

That said, I think arcane necromancers would actually make good debuffers, what with spells such as ray of enfeeblement (you get good mileage out of empowering it) and waves of fatigue/exhaustion.

OldTrees
2010-07-30, 09:39 AM
Chain Extend Command Undead.
Each casting gives you (1+cl)*2*(cl) mindless undead
Add Arcane Thesis and 2 +0 metamagic feats and you can use 2nd level slots too.

At 20th level [with no cl boosters] 21*2*20 = 840 mindless undead per spell slot used (2nd-9th)

faceroll
2010-07-30, 01:16 PM
There is a homebrew class by frank and K which is called the "uttercold assault necromancer." However, now that I think of it the aforementioned feats may actually be entry requirements for that class, but I have to check.

You are correct:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527634/Tome_of_Necromancy

Just search for uttercold assault necromancer.

WinWin
2010-07-30, 01:43 PM
The wizard is not able to complete with the cleric when it comes to the undead horde. The cleric can do it earlier than the wizard, also without decicating resources like spellbook space. The wizard necromanceris better than the cleric in debuffs. Also, where the cleric usually has numbers, the wizard is great with making elites. Planar Bind a demon or 2, then kill them (or get them to kill each other). Outsiders make for great skeletons or zombies. Once you have Create Undead, you can experiment with some of the templates...Just keep spamming Control Undead to keep them under control and make sure you don''t make anything that can take you down.

Craft wonderous items. Allows the creation of Spellstiched undead. Combine with Awaken Undead or a spellstiched familliar. Due to the cost, you want to save this for your best undead...A liuetenant that can cast Animate Dead as an SLA pays for itself.

Uttercold assault is effective, but very feat intensive. For best results, combine with cold spells that are damaging and have a debuff, such as freezing fog. Don''t forget you can change the [type] of a damaging spell, so you may be able to do things like an Uttercold Haboob, normally an [earth] spell.

For PrC''s to add to your build, think outside the box. Nightmare Spinner to mix in a little illusion for your build. Helps in disguising your army as well. Pale Master would be good, but is better when entered earlier. Wild Soul (unseelie) gives access to a number of creatures with great SLA''s. Frost Witch or Elemental Savant might work well with an Uttercold build. For a ray build, spellwarp sniper is great.

Hope this helps, I usually go for the debuff necromancer, so my advice may not be the best.

NelKor
2010-07-30, 02:17 PM
Are you dead set on Wizard? If not you may want to look at the Death Master Base class in the Dragon Compendium it nets you Animate dead as a second level spell and also gives you a free undead minion.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-07-30, 02:55 PM
I know of and already used the death master class before. It's a wonderful, underrated class but it still will control the same amount of undead as a plain old wizard, and has no way of increasing the size of his horde beyond an annoying, extraplanar sidequest to get planar touchstone for the deathbound domain power. While the death master IS a better necromancer then a wizard at low levels, at higher levels a Death Master will still be inferior as a necromancer to a Cleric or DN. Oh, and while a wizard, while an inferior necromancer to the death master at high levels, the wizard will be MUCH better at everything else. So at higher levels, the death master is really overall inferior to a cleric, inferior to a wizard in everything but necromancy, and better then a DN in everything but necromancy, which the DN is better at then the Death Master. (Death masters do have a more versatile spell list then a DN, but a DN's army will be bigger and stronger then a Death Master's.)


Of course, while some may say it's a trap, you could always use Death Master/Cleric as an entry into True Necromancer, but True Necromancer is a horrible PrC to begin with.

Machiavellian
2010-07-30, 04:56 PM
My suggestion is an Utterdark Nukeromancer.

Race: Human
Class: Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 3/Pale Master 10/Human Paragon 3/Necromancer 1
Feats Minus Required: Utterdark Spell, Black Lore of Moil, Piercing Cold

Focus your spells on the Necromancy spells centered around cold and Evocation spells (BLASPHEMY!!) favoring cold.