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Fouredged Sword
2010-07-30, 03:40 PM
Ok, for a gestalt game I am makeing a warblade // wilder who has lots of nice abilities to kill stuff and some nice fear effects, but the DM tells me that we will fight a good deal of undead for the game. Now, that dosn't bother me that much, as I am still a melee tank, but I would like to be able to critical hit an undead so I can activate blood in the water and quel the profain.

Now I don't have a lot of feats to spare and I need to stay on the side of good, read exalted, but is there a way to let me critical hit undead? I don't even care about the extra damage to much, just the ability to activate my crit activated abilities.

I know about the Kas binder bind, but that is a little evil for my tastes. If there is an item, it would be nice if I could get it by 7th level or so. Any other advice playgrounders?

Caphi
2010-07-30, 03:41 PM
Does a wand of gravestrike do it, or is that just for sneak attacks?

bartman
2010-07-30, 03:48 PM
MIC page 66, Greater Truedeath Crystal. Problems are it requires a +3 weapon, thats the numerical enhancement, not total enhancement (so a +1 keen flaming would not work), and the crystal itself is 10K.

tonberrian
2010-07-30, 03:49 PM
I'm 95% certain there's a line that says that all abilities that activate on a critical hit will still activate if the target is immune to extra damage from critical hits, though I couldn't tell you for the life of me where I saw it.

Failing that, though, there's a greater weapon crystal in Magic Item Compendium that does what you want. Truedeath Crystal, maybe?

Edit: Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm), under Magic Items and Critical Hits. Seems it only applies to effects from your weapon by RAW, but there's at least an argument to make that all such effects work. I'd allow it. Fighters need more love.

Demons_eye
2010-07-30, 03:50 PM
I could be wrong but blood in the water works even if they are immune to critical hits.

DAMN IT: Swordsage'd

tyckspoon
2010-07-30, 03:56 PM
Does a wand of gravestrike do it, or is that just for sneak attacks?

Just Sneak Attack, unfortunately, and his build doesn't have a way to activate it anyway.

The Greater Truedeath crystal, as the above posters mentioned, is the most generally accessible way to crit undead, but it's not a reasonable option until level 10 or so.

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-30, 03:59 PM
That looks good for mid game. The problem is we start at level 1. I think I could get my hands on one by level 10 or 12. It would eat most of my wealth, but I need it. I will just have to go with a +1 undead bane greatsword with a least Truedeath crystal for lower levels and just do damage.

Any other suggestions?

mangosta71
2010-07-30, 04:01 PM
Read scrolls of Resurrection at them. :smalltongue:

tyckspoon
2010-07-30, 04:11 PM
Try to convince your DM you don't need to do extra damage with the crit in order to trigger the rider effects, maybe (note: even if crittable, undead would still be immune to the ability damage of Quell the Profane anyway.) After all, you still scored a crit- just because it didn't do extra damage to the enemy doesn't change that. The fact that things like Flaming Burst still go off against crit-immune enemies supports that view.

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-30, 04:42 PM
That sounds like a good idea. After all Blood in the water is a self buff caused by seeing the effects of a good attack fluf wise. A flameburst keen falchion would give an impresive effect even if the target dosn't suffer the extra crit damage.

I also have been toying with wielding a greatsword useing undead bane and a least or lesser truedeath crystal on top of punishing stance and some mountain hammer to add some d6's to the attack and ignore DR. I sould be able to drop a pile of d6's with each attack.

So I will just have to see how many undead we fight as we level. If we fight just a few I will leave my build the way it is, and just pick up a undead bane greatsword and pull it out for undead.

If we fight undead at every turn I may have to re-plan my character to pick up the negative energy countering feats and a psicrystal for buffer hp in place of the fear based feats. We will have to see.

Tyndmyr
2010-07-31, 12:39 AM
If it's really undead heavy, you might consider asking if crits will be allowed to work on undead.

I advise watching a zombie movie while convincing your DM of this. Boom, headshot! is an excellent example of how an undead gets critted.

Paul H
2010-08-04, 06:58 AM
Hi

If I was in a campaign with loads Undead - I'd play a Cleric and go Radiant Servant Pelor. Hang on a moment - I am, and I did!

Who needs crits, when you've got Gtr Turning? Instant powdered Undead.

Also - if you've got access to Magic Item Compendium, check out Wraith's Woe (last magic set), for uber anti-Undead stuff.

Lastly, I've got a Clr 9/RSoP 10/Contemplative 1 in an Age of Worms campaign. DMM Persist spells, the works. I open up with Mass Heal (CL 24*) vs Undead. 360 HP damage, will save for half.

* Healing Lorecall, max ranks Heal, Healing Domain Power

Cheers
Paul H
PS I've got the Gtr Truedeath Crystal too.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-04, 07:33 AM
Where does it say that Blood in the Water triggers even on enemies immune to crits? The wording is only "Whenever you score a critical hit".

Kaww
2010-08-04, 07:33 AM
Try to convince your DM you don't need to do extra damage with the crit in order to trigger the rider effects, maybe (note: even if crittable, undead would still be immune to the ability damage of Quell the Profane anyway.) After all, you still scored a crit- just because it didn't do extra damage to the enemy doesn't change that. The fact that things like Flaming Burst still go off against crit-immune enemies supports that view.

I wouldn't allow it if it is explicitly written doesn't work on creatures immune to crits. Otherwise it would be ok.

Look up in MIC. There is an enchantment ghost touch weapon (+1) which can be upgraded with one more +1 chant to crit and sneak undead. At least I think so. Not sure, and I don't have access to my books right now...

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-04, 07:53 AM
I figgured out how I am going to go for the game. I switched to a psion / warblade. I am swithching my focus from tiger to iron. Now I am useing expanded knowledge to gain stygian bane and stygian disruption at 5th and delaying my 6th level feat to 7th respectivly. I will simply get a holy greatsword and deal 6d6+3+str*1.5+power attack+strike damage and at level 7 every time I hit I force a DC 14 save or die on any undead.

If I have problems with undead after that I am not trying.

Though I am not sure about that save DC for Stygian Disruption. The wording is unclear if it grants the disruption enchantment or if it imitates it with a save DC apropriate of a 4th level power. I will have to ask my DM.

Nice point-out to the wraith items. I may get one or all of them if I can.

Greenish
2010-08-04, 08:37 AM
Look up in MIC. There is an enchantment ghost touch weapon (+1) which can be upgraded with one more +1 chant to crit and sneak undead. At least I think so. Not sure, and I don't have access to my books right now...Yeah, Ghost Strike enchant.

Ruinix
2010-08-04, 09:01 AM
is exalted is allowed (ithink the OP said it is) take the feat Sacred Strike.

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-04, 09:11 AM
Thanks for pointing out ghost strike. I may use that at later levels. At low levels I think the armor hit for being in punishing stance is better and more generaly useful. I may get a ghost touch / ghost strike falchion later. It costs a lot for a +3 weapon though.

Roderick_BR
2010-08-04, 10:27 AM
Where does it say that Blood in the Water triggers even on enemies immune to crits? The wording is only "Whenever you score a critical hit".
Then again, a lot of effects usually states out "this effect doesn't work against creatures immune to critical hits", meaning that unless stated, critical immunity only negates weapon damage multiplier and sneak attack (and others "accuracy" based damage, like Favored Enemy), while others, like the extra damage of a burst weapon still applies.

Fouredged Sword
2010-08-04, 01:30 PM
Thank you all for the help. You have been very useful in filling in all the gaps in my build.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-04, 01:38 PM
Then again, a lot of effects usually states out "this effect doesn't work against creatures immune to critical hits", meaning that unless stated, critical immunity only negates weapon damage multiplier and sneak attack (and others "accuracy" based damage, like Favored Enemy), while others, like the extra damage of a burst weapon still applies.

I see. It makes sense, although the fluff of the stance makes me hesitate to accept it. I'll see what my dm thinks about it.