PDA

View Full Version : Sayin



Korivan
2010-07-30, 04:40 PM
So how about it? Any suggestions on making a Dragon Ball Z Sayin (not sure on spelling) with DnD. All books and templates allowed. Gestalt build. Doesn't have to transform into super sayin, but it would be cool.

So far, some kind of monk/psionic warrior is my first thought. But not sure on a kahamaha style attack. With that im thinking warlock (from revised compendium). But not sure how to incorperate, or if I want to yet.

Any suggestions?

grarrrg
2010-07-30, 05:33 PM
Saiyan is the correct spelling, might also want to change the title to include Dragon Ball, or DBZ or somesuch.

Let's see, DBZDnD...
If using existing content and not homebrewing (just free thinking here...): Then the race should have a good amount of +str and +con, dex is more neutral, any of the mental stats can definately take a small hit.
Would need some kind of focus on Unarmed attacks, a no-armor AC bonus (but possibly NOT based on wis)
The energy based techniques they use can be broken into 2 main categories, Combat, and Movement.
Combat consists almost entirely of shooting off energy blasts of various sizes, powers, and quantities. I like the Warlock for the at-will blast, but it lacks the variety. Could be an Evoke heavy sorcerer build...
Movement is mostly flight, some land speed enhancement, and (rarely) teleportation...
Should have AT LEAST 3/4bab and d10 hp.


Might have more fleshed out ideas later...

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-30, 05:35 PM
Not to mention the ability to turn into a huge sized Ape during the fool moon.

Andion Isurand
2010-07-30, 05:39 PM
of course you may want to decide what LA (and any HD) you are aiming for first

perhaps you could let them reroll all their hit point total every time they are brought back to life, keeping the new total only if it is greater than the previous one

since resurrection tends to increase their power quite a bit

you could also grant them temporary hit points based on HD as part of their super sayian transformation

grarrrg
2010-07-30, 05:50 PM
Not to mention the ability to turn into a huge sized Ape during the fool moon.

I think that might be more trouble than it's worth. Maybe get some Rage uses and just say they grow a lot of body hair?

Then again... what's the going rate on a "Cloak of Polymorph into Gargantuan Ape 1/month"

Prodan
2010-07-30, 05:51 PM
Warlocks going into Hellfire Warlock with additional Eldritch Blast Shape invocations to simulate Fireball and the like, as well as a racial ability to turn into King Kong.

Andion Isurand
2010-07-30, 05:53 PM
You should make the ape thing work like lycanthropy (3 nights a month I think) and dust off the Control Shape skill.

Plus I think this thread would be better served in the homebrew section.

Prodan
2010-07-30, 05:55 PM
IIRC, Vegeta had a special technique that allowed him to change shape at will - made a ball of Ki that had the same effect as the light of a full moon.

Lev
2010-07-30, 06:14 PM
Saiyans are CLEARLY their own race.

Saiyans are built to be splash monks/psychics.

The lineage of Goku and why he is so strong is that he had high STR and full CON but not a lot of dex, int, wis or cha.

Later he found Master Roshi who taught him STR/DEX/CON which was boosted by reaching Korin.

When he was finished his training he went up to see Kami, which did away with his one and only magic item and thus opened up VoP.

First he had to deal with Mr. Popo who put him through intensive WIS training and gave him psychic levels.

He then returned in DBZ with VoP and psychic character levels, and from there no longer needed to retain his monk level progression.

Dragon allows us to give a splashed mindblade the feat Reshape Mindblade [Unarmed] and thus you now have psionic mindblade fists, add Kalashtar monk minus the Kalashtar and replace in Saiyan and from there theurge into Atavist.

From there it's just cheese.

Prodan
2010-07-30, 06:16 PM
The lineage of Goku and why he is so strong is that he had high STR and full CON but not a lot of dex, int, wis or cha.

His mental abilities suffer because he got hit on the head as a baby, after being sent to earth.

That's the canon explanation of a) why he didn't destroy the world, and b) why he's such an idiot.

Lev
2010-07-30, 06:17 PM
His mental abilities suffer because he got hit on the head as a baby, after being sent to earth.

That's the canon explanation of a) why he didn't destroy the world, and b) why he's such an idiot.

Goku's actually really sharp later on, he's just got a clown personality ;p

grarrrg
2010-07-30, 06:22 PM
The lineage of Goku and why he is so strong is that he had high STR and full CON but not a lot of dex, int, wis or cha.

I'll agree with you on pretty much everything but this:
Goku has plenty of Charisma (probably NOT typical of Saiyans).
He's an easy-going, likeable guy, everyone who ever met him likes him (save the villians and Vegeta, but even Vegeta was obsessed with him)
AND he married Chi-Chi, who still loves him even though he's either away training, adventuring, or DEAD most of the time.

Dude has max (racially allowed) Charisma.

Lev
2010-07-30, 06:45 PM
I'll agree with you on pretty much everything but this:
Goku has plenty of Charisma (probably NOT typical of Saiyans).
He's an easy-going, likeable guy, everyone who ever met him likes him (save the villians and Vegeta, but even Vegeta was obsessed with him)
AND he married Chi-Chi, who still loves him even though he's either away training, adventuring, or DEAD most of the time.

Dude has max (racially allowed) Charisma.

Bluff
Diplomacy
Disguise
Gather Info
Handle Animal
Intimidate
Perform
Use Magic Device

Yeah I'm willing to say he has decent CHA, or at least good diplomacy and handle animal.

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-30, 06:49 PM
Monk / psi-war // warlock...

on to epic levels

awa
2010-07-30, 06:52 PM
the ability to get stronger after getting a severe beating would be problematic to say the least pcs can beaten bloody on a regular basis and with a cleric friend it would be rapidly abused.

Lev
2010-07-30, 06:56 PM
the ability to get stronger after getting a severe beating would be problematic to say the least pcs can beaten bloody on a regular basis and with a cleric friend it would be rapidly abused.

The DBZ world treats training as higher XP than actual victory.

Morph Bark
2010-07-30, 06:58 PM
I actually have a DBZ DnD homebrew supplement PDF file on my laptop that I got off the WotC forums somewhere. Saiyans got +2 Con, -2 Cha I believe, as well as stuff regarding their tail (grabbing it immobilizes them and it also allows them to turn Oozaru at the full moon) and the ability to get 10% extra XP from encounters if they at some point were dying during the encounter.

Kylarra
2010-07-30, 08:40 PM
the ability to get stronger after getting a severe beating would be problematic to say the least pcs can beaten bloody on a regular basis and with a cleric friend it would be rapidly abused.Vegeta tried to game the system in the Frieza saga in canon already anyway. :smalltongue:

Human Paragon 3
2010-07-31, 12:56 AM
If you want to run a DBZ-like campaign, I would recommend giving everybody a free gestalt, one side MUST be a psionic class or a Tome of Battle class, preferably both. That should do it!

Lhurgyof
2010-07-31, 01:07 AM
Oh god... Dx
Kill it with fire!

But, there's a feat called Ki Strike, I think, where you throw a ball of Ki. xD

Morph Bark
2010-07-31, 04:21 AM
If you want to run a DBZ-like campaign, I would recommend giving everybody a free gestalt, one side MUST be a psionic class or a Tome of Battle class, preferably both. That should do it!

Specifically Warblade/Psion, or Unarmed Swordsage/Psion (or Psychic Warrior) eh? Kineticist works for most DBZ characters, Egoists maybe for the ones more focused on transforming, and throw in a few Nomad powers for Goku's Instantaneous Transmission. Disciplines being Stone Dragon, Desert Wind, Setting Sun and Tiger Claw. Maybe Diamond Mind for some of the characters.

At any rate: check here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/6908976/DBZ-v51) for the DBZ d20.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-31, 05:12 AM
I'd think druid in that they have magic that would allow them to do the crazy stuff Sayins could do as well as turn into a giant monkey with wildshape.

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-31, 09:10 AM
Goku doesn't have below average mental stats. He just has the character flaw: "Can't take anything seriously."

Vegeta has whatever the opposite of that would be.

Jackle
2010-07-31, 09:26 AM
Then again... what's the going rate on a "Cloak of Polymorph into Gargantuan Ape 1/month"

About one season of plot, and three episodes of charging up a death laser.

I'm Just Saiyan.

Morph Bark
2010-07-31, 10:03 AM
About one season of plot, and three episodes of charging up a death laser.

I'm Just Saiyan.

...

*insert facepalm/chuckle/idea for an antifeat*

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-31, 10:24 AM
The main problem with this idea is that there is a huge power discrepancy between DBZ and D&D. Even the heroes of original Dragon Ball were way tougher and more powerful than the average D&D character. You might be able to pull it off at epic levels if you made epic ToB maneuvers and removed all spellcasting, but really it would be easier to just use a system that already emulates shonen fighting anime styles. I don't have any experience with these, but maybe BESM or GURPS would be more appropriate? Or a point-based system like the old Hero System.

Morph Bark
2010-07-31, 11:22 AM
The main problem with this idea is that there is a huge power discrepancy between DBZ and D&D. Even the heroes of original Dragon Ball were way tougher and more powerful than the average D&D character. You might be able to pull it off at epic levels if you made epic ToB maneuvers and removed all spellcasting, but really it would be easier to just use a system that already emulates shonen fighting anime styles. I don't have any experience with these, but maybe BESM or GURPS would be more appropriate? Or a point-based system like the old Hero System.

This is one of the things I hear a lot, but people often seem to forget that in DBZ the characters are growing as well. Goku facing Frieza for the first time isn't as powerful as when he fights Buu. Plus, DBZ wasn't made with DnD power levels in mind. You could stat many of the characters quite well as full casters rather than melee fighters.

At that point it's just a matter of picking the right spells/powers and a little optimization.

true_shinken
2010-07-31, 11:27 AM
I'd say a Warlock/Shou Disciple gets all of Goku most popular abilities.

Kamehameha - This is, of course, eldritch blast.
Martial Arts - All saiyans are able at hand to hand combat; Shou Disciple covers this. Goku could even flurry with his nyoi-bo, or Trunks with his Sword.
Superspeed-move Behind Them and Smash'em - Very common - they move at superspeed, leaving an afterimage and strike their target. Flee the Scene + Sun School.


I believe the 'I advance in levels when I'm beat halfway to death' thing can't be done in D&D. Dunno about the tail as a weakness.
Oozaru transformation could be done with a lycanthropic template, I guess.

Also, Goku is one of the few characters that actually could be a D&D 20th level character and beyond.

Lev
2010-07-31, 01:27 PM
What about blink? I mean I watch DBZ and I think "wow, that really isn't superspeed, that's just blink+flurry".

Ravens_cry
2010-07-31, 01:38 PM
What about blink? I mean I watch DBZ and I think "wow, that really isn't superspeed, that's just blink+flurry. cheap animation."
It is . . .rectified.:smalltongue:

Lapak
2010-07-31, 02:28 PM
This is one of the things I hear a lot, but people often seem to forget that in DBZ the characters are growing as well. Goku facing Frieza for the first time isn't as powerful as when he fights Buu. Plus, DBZ wasn't made with DnD power levels in mind. You could stat many of the characters quite well as full casters rather than melee fighters.

At that point it's just a matter of picking the right spells/powers and a little optimization.Yes and no. Yes, you could create a D&D-level scale to simulate their activities, but several characters - Goku, Piccolo and Roshi at least - are capable of destroying the moon casually before DBZ even starts. Because having it around is an inconvenience. Every major character on the show can shatter planets by the midpoint, if the need arises; many are tough enough to take a planet-shattering blast full in the face and shake it off. The fact that they grow more powerful over time is something that can really only be measured against each other rather than against a human - even superhuman - scale.

Yes, full casters in D&D are powerful, but they aren't destroy-worlds-on-a-whim powerful (short of the cheesiest combinations and use of Epic Magic, anyway.)

Your basic point remains true, though: if you want to take the essential abilities (flight, speed, toughness blasts of power) you can certainly model it on D&D's heroic-to-epic-fantasy level.

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-31, 08:35 PM
This is one of the things I hear a lot, but people often seem to forget that in DBZ the characters are growing as well. Goku facing Frieza for the first time isn't as powerful as when he fights Buu. Plus, DBZ wasn't made with DnD power levels in mind. You could stat many of the characters quite well as full casters rather than melee fighters.

At that point it's just a matter of picking the right spells/powers and a little optimization.

It's not simply a power discrepancy, though. It's also the range of power difference that is seen between different characters (or between the same character at different points in the series). Some characters just stop getting stronger at some point, while others just keep going and going and going. And at no point are any of them comparable to normal people.

There's also the problem of scale. During the Buu Saga, you could equate Goku to a 20th level character. But then by comparison, Krillen would only be like a first level character. The problem is, we know Krillen is better than that since he got a lot stronger than he originally was during the first half of DBZ. But DBZ continuously keeps resetting the power scale, such that guys that were badasses in original DB (like Tenshinan) are only as powerful as the mooks when DBZ starts (the Saibamen). And it keeps happening over and over. Fighters who used to be strong lose their relevancy, not because they get weaker, but because they stopped keeping up with baseline power level. Another example: any of the one-off villains from the early parts of the Buu Saga could easily have taken out Nappa, but they were so weak compared to the current power of the Z Fighters that they barely even got names.

Combined with the sheer magnitude of the characters' destructive capabilities and it becomes very hard to model using a system like D&D.

Popertop
2010-08-01, 12:20 AM
the ability to get stronger after getting a severe beating would be problematic to say the least pcs can beaten bloody on a regular basis and with a cleric friend it would be rapidly abused.

The Saiyans did conquer whole worlds you know.

And the thing about saiyans being helpless when their tail is grabbed,
Nappa and Vegeta were immune to that, so it should only apply to Saiyans
that are under level 5 or something.

Kylarra
2010-08-01, 12:27 AM
The Saiyans did conquer whole worlds you know.

And the thing about saiyans being helpless when their tail is grabbed,
Nappa and Vegeta were immune to that, so it should only apply to Saiyans
that are under level 5 or something.Not to mention that Goku in DB trained himself to actually fight with his tail as well, ie as a child.