Poor Elan

[Warren Dew]

He thinks his dad is going to remarry his mother. That doesn't seem too likely to me.

Then again, the oracle did promise him a happy ending.

[Capt Spanner]

In all fairness to this, while Tarquin is almost certainly evil he is modelled on Darth Vader who was, in the end, redeemed.

[Dr.Epic]

He thinks his dad is going to remarry his mother. That doesn't seem too likely to me.

Then again, the oracle did promise him a happy ending.

He should watch the ending to Mrs. Doubtfire.

[Acero]

:elan: Wait, that's a Man?!?! Where's the belt of gender change?

[Dr.Epic]

In all fairness to this, while Tarquin is almost certainly evil he is modelled on Darth Vader who was, in the end, redeemed.

How do you figure that? The concept of father-son rivalry is not something just in Star Wars. Hell, half of Greek mythology is the father screwing over their offspring and then the child striking back against their father even tougher.

[T.H. Everything]

Hell, half of Greek mythology is the father screwing over their offspring and then the child striking back against their father even tougher.

To be accurate, it's sons, rebelling against their fathers, because that's the way the world works.

[Capt Spanner]

How do you figure that? The concept of father-son rivalry is not something just in Star Wars.

"Elan, I am your father."
"Pray I don't alter it any further."

Enough said.

[Grommen]

"Elan, I am your father."
"Pray I don't alter it any further."

Enough said.

Dude, Wile I can see you connecting the dots.

Personally I've used that line on my players in nearly every campaign at one time or another. It's a running joke in gaming.

And they were laffing about the dramatic timing of it all.

[busterswd]

Dude, Wile I can see you connecting the dots.

Personally I've used that line on my players in nearly every campaign at one time or another. It's a running joke in gaming.

And they were laffing about the dramatic timing of it all.

Except for, you know, them EXPLICITLY referencing Star Wars at least a few times more. Or do you have thermal detonator scenes in your campaigns too?

[NerfTW]

Quoting vader doesn't make him based on Vader. For starters, Vader was a heroic Jedi who fell to the dark side. Tarquin has, for all we know, always been evil.

It was a joke, not a sign of the character's progression. If it was, I weep for The Giant's originality, because he would clearly be a hack to just blatently rip off Vader instead of creating his own character.

I doubt he'll be redeemed in the sense of becoming good.

[calar]

Yeah... I wouldn't bank on that happening, Tarquin doesn't strike me as the type to "settle down". That and the irreconcilable alignment difference thing.

[krossbow]

I have to admit, that part of the comic was pretty sad. I mean, it is pretty delusional, and sounds so much like real divorced

[B.I.T.T.]

Knowing Elan he'll forget all about it within 3 panels of the next comic, maybe 4.

[TheMac04]

Knowing Elan he'll forget all about it within 3 panels of the next comic, maybe 4.

I don't think you're giving Elan enough credit. I mean sure, he's still an idiot, but he's a lot more mature than he was in the beginning of the strip.


(cure someone linking a recent strip containing Elan doing something stupid as proof that I'm wrong)

[Connington]

Elan's affection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html) for Roy and naiveté are all well known. Doesn't make it any less heartrending.

[Dr.Epic]

To be accurate, it's sons, rebelling against their fathers, because that's the way the world works.

The parent started it though: Uranus trapped Cronus so he attacked his father with a sickle. And Cronus swallowed his offspring except Zeus who eventually freed them, overthrew the titans and became king of the gods.

[LuPuWei]

If Tarquin is evil, Roy might have to pull a Doctor Cox...

[Dr.Epic]

If Tarquin is evil, Roy might have to pull a Doctor Cox...

:smallconfused:

[TheMac04]

:smallconfused:

Obscure references: Just play along.

Honestly though, I don't understand why people have been suggesting that Tarquin might NOT be evil. Sure, he's a nice guy, but he's still evil.

[brilliantlight]

Elan's affection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html) for Roy and naiveté are all well known. Doesn't make it any less heartrending.

Bordering on hero worship, yes. Luckily for Elan, Roy IS very heroic. If he desired to Roy could easily become a paladin. After :miko: he is very unlikely to want to but that is not the point.

[LuPuWei]

Obscure references: Just play along.

Honestly though, I don't understand why people have been suggesting that Tarquin might NOT be evil. Sure, he's a nice guy, but he's still evil.

Scrubs, an american sitcom.

[PallElendro]

I think it's poor Elan that Roy and him will never be legally adopted and be brothers and get a dog.

[TheMac04]

I think it's poor Elan that Roy and him will never be legally adopted and be brothers and get a dog.

Two dogs. :smallwink:

[krossbow]

Thinking about things though, it is rather strange that Elan's mother didn't suffer "mysterious circumstances" like the other wives though.

Though Nale's statements about how his father would refer to their mother seemed pretty disparaging.

[DougTheHead]

:smallconfused:

Here's a good primer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkOAueZbBY&feature=related)

[veti]

Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html) is (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html) well (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html) accustomed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0266.html) to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html) disappointment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0502.html). Ranking this one in proportion to his previous experience, I reckon it'll take him about two panels to bounce back. Maybe three, if he wants to milk it for drama.

[Dr.Epic]

Obscure references: Just play along.

No, I watch Scrubs, and know the character, it just took me away to get it.

[Glad_Vampyre]

If Tarquin is evil, Roy might have to pull a Doctor Cox...


I watch Scrubs all the time.... I still dont get it. Will you please elaborate for me?

[Dr.Epic]

I watch Scrubs all the time.... I still dont get it. Will you please elaborate for me?

JD's father was distant and never really there for JD for pretty much his entire life, sort of like how Elan's dad was never there and is evil. In this metaphor, Roy would be Dr. Cox.

[TheMac04]

Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html) is (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html) well (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html) accustomed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0266.html) to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html) disappointment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0502.html). Ranking this one in proportion to his previous experience, I reckon it'll take him about two panels to bounce back. Maybe three, if he wants to milk it for drama.

Yes, but most of them are rather silly things, barring the one with Haley being left in the city, and he most certainly did NOT get over that immediately. This sort of thing is a lot less trivial than not being able to wear an eyepatch.

[veti]

Yes, but most of them are rather silly things, barring the one with Haley being left in the city, and he most certainly did NOT get over that immediately. This sort of thing is a lot less trivial than not being able to wear an eyepatch.

And expecting his dad to remarry the woman whom he hasn't seen in 20 years and lives two continents away, that doesn't fulfil your criteria for "rather silly"?

He was pretty damn' disappointed when Nale stabbed him, and sure it caused a lasting change in his impression of Nale, but it didn't cloud his sunny and goodnatured disposition at all. He was his happy-go-lucky self again pretty much the minute he was back on his feet.

So let's not waste our sympathy for petty disappointments as this - he really doesn't need it.

[TheMac04]

And expecting his dad to remarry the woman whom he hasn't seen in 20 years and lives two continents away, that doesn't fulfil your criteria for "rather silly"?

It's kind of a silly thing for him to imagine happening, but it's also something that has a lasting emotional effect. Basically, Elan sees good in every person, and thinks everybody could work together if they just got along, barring of course people he KNOWS are supremely evil (Xykon, Nale, etc.). The thought that maybe his parents just don't love eachother anymore just hasn't even occurred to him. Finding this out is gonna hurt.


He was pretty damn' disappointed when Nale stabbed him, and sure it caused a lasting change in his impression of Nale, but it didn't cloud his sunny and goodnatured disposition at all. He was his happy-go-lucky self again pretty much the minute he was back on his feet.

He knew Nale for about a day at that point. He's been thinking about his parents getting back together for 20 years.



So let's not waste our sympathy for petty disappointments as this - he really doesn't need it.

Hey, I'm all for not arguing.

[Glad_Vampyre]

JD's father was distant and never really there for JD for pretty much his entire life, sort of like how Elan's dad was never there and is evil. In this metaphor, Roy would be Dr. Cox.

AHHH now it comes together. Thanks!

[Connington]

Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html) is (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html) well (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html) accustomed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0266.html) to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html) disappointment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0502.html). Ranking this one in proportion to his previous experience, I reckon it'll take him about two panels to bounce back. Maybe three, if he wants to milk it for drama.

I think you're kind of missing the point. No one's really expecting Elan to start dressing in black and bemoaning his fate. Except possibly as a gag. What makes it kind of cute and more sad is that Elan's expectations here are basically those of a ten year old's, which is pretty typical for him. Normally that's just part of his comic relief status, but on an occasion like this, I find it tugging at my heartstrings.

[TheMac04]

I think you're kind of missing the point. No one's really expecting Elan to start dressing in black and bemoaning his fate. Except possibly as a gag. What makes it kind of cute and more sad is that Elan's expectations here are basically those of a ten year old's, which is pretty typical for him. Normally that's just part of his comic relief status, but on an occasion like this, I find it tugging at my heartstrings.
Thank you for explaining what I wish I could explain if I didn't suck at talking.

[Marnath]

Thinking about things though, it is rather strange that Elan's mother didn't suffer "mysterious circumstances" like the other wives though.

Though Nale's statements about how his father would refer to their mother seemed pretty disparaging.


Wait, we know all his wives have vanished under mysterious circumstances? I thought we only knew that about the most recent one. :smallconfused:

[TheMac04]

Wait, we know all his wives have vanished under mysterious circumstances? I thought we only knew that about the most recent one. :smallconfused:
Elan's "Not another one!" bit seems to imply that it happens a lot.

[Connington]

Elan's "Not another one!" bit seems to imply that it happens a lot.

Elan never actually knew any of his father's other wives.

Regardless, he's gone through eight wives off-panel in twenty-something years. Well, assuming Elan's mother was the first of the nine he mentioned anyways. Either way, that's a lot of spouses for a villain to go through without killing.

[TheMac04]

Elan never actually knew any of his father's other wives.

Regardless, he's gone through eight wives off-panel in twenty-something years. Well, assuming Elan's mother was the first of the nine he mentioned anyways. Either way, that's a lot of spouses for a villain to go through without killing.
I know, but it seems that, if Elan has heard of the "disease", it's something that strikes villain's wives a lot.

Just a thought.

[Nimrod's Son]

Well, assuming Elan's mother was the first of the nine he mentioned anyways.
No need to assume. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html)

[B. Dandelion]

Elan's "Not another one!" bit seems to imply that it happens a lot.

I took that to be Elan missing an obvious social nuance, not indicating he knows about the fates of the other wives. If the latest wife had died of cancer or something that killed off people worldwide in droves, saying something like "not another one! When will they find a cure?" would be a recognizable attempt at consolation -- invoking a shared suffering. Since "mysterious circumstances" doesn't fit that criteria, it just sounds weird.

[GSFB]

what is the actual empirical (not imperial) evidence that tarquin is evil?

we have nale's story telling - which could be biased by nale being evil.

we have history that tarquin has fought a lot and helped prop up evil dictators - but that is not necessarily evil and is just as easily neutral.

also, most of the evidence that suggests tarquin might be evil is from the past. we have no way of knowing if he was evil in his core, or just far less wise in his youth.

note: this is not an argument that tarquin is NOT evil. this is just stating I have nothing solid to go on at this time.

[TheMac04]

what is the actual empirical (not imperial) evidence that tarquin is evil?

we have nale's story telling - which could be biased by nale being evil.

we have history that tarquin has fought a lot and helped prop up evil dictators - but that is not necessarily evil and is just as easily neutral.

also, most of the evidence that suggests tarquin might be evil is from the past. we have no way of knowing if he was evil in his core, or just far less wise in his youth.

note: this is not an argument that tarquin is NOT evil. this is just stating I have nothing solid to go on at this time.
Hasn't it been started that he's Lawful Evil before?

[Kish]

Hasn't it been started that he's Lawful Evil before?
Passive voice alert. His lawyer stated that he's Lawful Evil.

I think Tarquin being Lawful Evil is as established as practically anyone's alignment at this point, but mind the passive voice on principle. :smalltongue:

[TheMac04]

Passive voice alert. His lawyer stated that he's Lawful Evil.

I think Tarquin being Lawful Evil is as established as practically anyone's alignment at this point, but mind the passive voice on principle. :smalltongue:
We haven't really seen him in any situations where alignment would be a question. He just seems like a nice guy (except for that whole "pushing Haley off a balcony" thing, but even that was for a good cause), but nice people can still be evil.

[Danne]

Quoting vader doesn't make him based on Vader. For starters, Vader was a heroic Jedi who fell to the dark side. Tarquin has, for all we know, always been evil.

It was a joke, not a sign of the character's progression. If it was, I weep for The Giant's originality, because he would clearly be a hack to just blatently rip off Vader instead of creating his own character.

I doubt he'll be redeemed in the sense of becoming good.

I imagine they'll end up making a joke at some point along these lines. Tarquin's not going to be redeemed; he's perfectly happy being amicably evil. He's got Elan's sense of drama and storytelling clichés, though, so I'm counting on somebody cracking a joke about how he's not going to follow the stereotype. Only, y'know, funnier than I said it.


I took that to be Elan missing an obvious social nuance, not indicating he knows about the fates of the other wives. If the latest wife had died of cancer or something that killed off people worldwide in droves, saying something like "not another one! When will they find a cure?" would be a recognizable attempt at consolation -- invoking a shared suffering. Since "mysterious circumstances" doesn't fit that criteria, it just sounds weird.

Death by "mysterious circumstances" is a common plot device. So many people (the villain's wife, the ambitious prince's elderly father... typically secondary people that we rarely see on screen) die of it in stories. Elan is aware of the trend, but isn't cynical enough to get the sinister connotations. It's not a social nuance, just a joke about how common it is for people not to be suspicious of "mysterious circumstances" in these kind of stories.

[B. Dandelion]

Death by "mysterious circumstances" is a common plot device. So many people (the villain's wife, the ambitious prince's elderly father... typically secondary people that we rarely see on screen) die of it in stories. Elan is aware of the trend, but isn't cynical enough to get the sinister connotations. It's not a social nuance, just a joke about how common it is for people not to be suspicious of "mysterious circumstances" in these kind of stories.

Okay, but what I was getting at was that the "again" in "not again!" probably wasn't specifically in reference to Tarquin's wives 2-8 -- "you poor thing, that happens all the time," not "you poor thing, that happens to you a lot." Him talking about other stories and other plot devices rather than just people in general works fine for me.

[enarch3t]

Except for, you know, them EXPLICITLY referencing Star Wars at least a few times more. Or do you have thermal detonator scenes in your campaigns too?

Sadly, more then once.

[Danne]

Okay, but what I was getting at was that the "again" in "not again!" probably wasn't specifically in reference to Tarquin's wives 2-8 -- "you poor thing, that happens all the time," not "you poor thing, that happens to you a lot." Him talking about other stories and other plot devices rather than just people in general works fine for me.

Oh, okay. Sorry. :smallredface: Yes, I totally agree.

[B. Dandelion]

Oh, okay. Sorry. :smallredface: Yes, I totally agree.

No need to apologize -- your explanation was much clearer than mine, and I think makes better sense.