Good Orcs 3.5

[MartytheBioGuy]

Mostly in homage to Redcloak's ideals, I have made a change in my most recent campaign world. Orcs are a race like any other. That is, they are not "always chaotic evil," nor are they destined to war with anyone. (Yes, I know RC's a goblin, but Orcs seemed more practical)

In my newest world, Orcs have their own sovereign nation, called Sus, and, though they are a primitive country compared to their Dwarven, Gnomish, Halfling, and human neighbors (they don't border the elves), they are as good a nation as any.

To that end, I invented a new patron deity for Orcs, named Suigaamaash. He's Gruumsh's twin (again, in my setting) and he bears no ill will against Correllon Larethian for his brother's mutilation, as the damage done was punishment for unjust behavior. His domains are Chaos, Good, Animal, Plant, Sun, and War. His favored weapon is the Handaxe.

[Machiavellian]

Mostly in homage to Redcloak's ideals, I have made a change in my most recent campaign world. Orcs are a race like any other. That is, they are not "always chaotic evil," nor are they destined to war with anyone. (Yes, I know RC's a goblin, but Orcs seemed more practical)

In my newest world, Orcs have their own sovereign nation, called Sus, and, though they are a primitive country compared to their Dwarven, Gnomish, Halfling, and human neighbors (they don't border the elves), they are as good a nation as any.

To that end, I invented a new patron deity for Orcs, named Suigaamaash. He's Gruumsh's twin (again, in my setting) and he bears no ill will against Correllon Larethian for his brother's mutilation, as the damage done was punishment for unjust behavior. His domains are Chaos, Good, Animal, Plant, Sun, and War. His favored weapon is the Handaxe.

as an Orc fanboy, this fits my flavor. I always try to coax my DMs into allowing a Half-Orc Paladin. All this deity needs is a PrC and he's kosher

[Urpriest]

Incidentally, you might want to check out how they handle Orcs in Eberron: not only are they often good-aligned and quite friendly with humans, they've got a world-defending order of Druids.

[kpenguin]

I wouldn't say often good-aligned. The orc-inhabited Shadow Marches seem divided between the evil Dragon Below cults and the world defending Gatekeepers

[Urpriest]

I wouldn't say often good-aligned. The orc-inhabited Shadow Marches seem divided between the evil Dragon Below cults and the world defending Gatekeepers

Eh, I had the impression that most were just Orcish farmers trying to make ends meet.

[Machiavellian]

Eh, I had the impression that most were just Orcish farmers trying to make ends meet.

Orcs aren't evil...Just misunderstood...

Think about it: They can't be held resonsible for their actions...Gruumsh is a basketcase. He's brainwashing the Orc population to act in this destructive, more Self-Destructive, behavior. If Orcs could shy away from Gruumsh, they'd be like Dwarves or Humans or Elves. Seriously, how can players see them as vermin needing to be butchered at the first possible instant? I play a Half-Orc whenever possible, or at the very least a Half-Hobgoblin, since they are misunderstood too, but that's for another time. I mean, Orcs are the only PC available race with greater than a +2 to any stat without level adjustment. I say that D&D players should embrace Orcs in all of their forms. They can be cute and cuddly, especially as babies. Think of the Baby Orcs....

So in closing, I support any Orc Deity that is of Good alignment. Follow the path to the light, and end racism against the Orcs...

[Lord Vukodlak]

Mostly in homage to Redcloak's ideals, I have made a change in my most recent campaign world. Orcs are a race like any other. That is, they are not "always chaotic evil," nor are they destined to war with anyone. (Yes, I know RC's a goblin, but Orcs seemed more practical)


I I would point out that officially orcs are "Often chaotic evil" not always or even usually. But that aside.

The goblins in Order of the Stick don't really live up to Redcloaks ideals or at least what you say are his ideals neither does Redcloak for that matter.

Redcloak and his goblins are still every bit as evil as the D&D counterparts. He's willing to do unspeakable evil in order to carry out his plan to improve his lot in life, Which is based in releasing Snarl in order to blackmail the other deities and he killed his own brother to maintain his plan.

If you think the horribly evil ends justify the means hey your lawful evil just like Redcloak.

So your idea of an orc nation that is just like any other nation isn't redcloaks ideal[with a goblin/orc swap. Its your own.


Orcs aren't evil...Just misunderstood...

Think about it: They can't be held resonsible for their actions...Gruumsh is a basketcase. He's brainwashing the Orc population to act in this destructive, more Self-Destructive, behavior. If Orcs could shy away from Gruumsh, they'd be like Dwarves or Humans or Elves.

Which is why Orcs are often chaotic evil and not always. The same applies to drow, duregar and other evil demi-humans. Of course is an orc being evil because it was raised to revere Gruumish any different then a human raised to be evil?
I don't think so.
Does the fact the orcs are brainwashed from birth mean you shouldn't fight them when they start acting out on that evil?

If anything it means you should attack their village and target the clerics so you can take them away from Gruumish. The only other option is to fight the orcs whenever the rise up and let the cycle continue forever.

I once gave a paladin PC a very important test, he was told there was a tribe of hobgoblins living in the forest to the north and had been there for years.
He asked "Well what have they done"
"Well nothing yet but they are goblins"
"But if they haven't done anything I'm not going to bother them"
He past the test, he didn't go after them for simply existing. Now when they did do something then he got interested.

In my most recent campaign I DM one of the characters is a good orc for the very reason he was taken away from his fellows and got to experience life away from Gruumish.

[MartytheBioGuy]

Okay, the inspiration was RC, but the implementation otherwise proved to be difficult. I readily acknowledge that RC is evil, but his cause is noble and another pursuing that cause might actually be a good character.

In order to make goblins peacefully flourish (which is more or less Redcloak's plan) I felt the need to add a Good aspect to the Goblinoid races in my quest world. Essentially, I wanted to do away with the thought that there could be races designed for nought but low-CR battles for the side of good.

And that is the Dark One's plan.

[Machiavellian]

Which is why Orcs are often chaotic evil and not always. The same applies to drow, duregar and other evil demi-humans. Of course is an orc being evil because it was raised to revere Gruumish any different then a human raised to be evil?

I once gave a paladin PC a very important test, he was told there was a tribe of hobgoblins living in the forest to the north and had been there for years.
He asked "Well what have they done"
"Well nothing yet but they are goblins"
"But if they haven't done anything I'm not going to bother them"
He past the test.

I'm just saying I have friends who ALWAYS play Elves and are racist against players who enjoy playing an Orc-blooded PC, some to the point that they kill the player at any chance. It just bugged me. Hence why I left. and yet even on this forum, there is some degree of animosity towards optimizing using Orcs. It's sodding RACISM!

and to your paladin test, I love this!

[Lord Vukodlak]

And that is the Dark One's plan.
I imagine the Dark One's plan is to make goblins the dominate race of the world and bring all others under there boot.
You can never trust an evil deity especially if your his cleric.

[Mojo_Rat]

Little bit of a odd story here involving good orcs. years ago in a AD&d campaign my dm was randomly rolling up an orc horde he had for a campaign. when randomly rolling loot for the orc warlord he apparently rolled some fluky massive ego magic sword that was Lawfulgood and completely over wrote the personality of the warlord.

Dm decided since the sword was so amazingly strong hed likely be able to convert them so when the PCs encountered the orcs most of them were lawful good after at least a generation with this guy in charge.


cant remember what the sword actually did though.

[MartytheBioGuy]

I imagine the Dark One's plan is to make goblins the dominate race of the world and bring all others under there boot.
You can never trust an evil deity especially if your his cleric.

Could you quote the right person? No biggie.

And really, while that may be what you imagine, it is not explicitly stated anywhere. All he wants, or so Redcloak would say, is an equal playing ground for the humanoids.

[Yora]

Though there's a lot of hate against Dominic Deegan, I really like the comics Maltak Orcs (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-01-05). They are not evil, have some good and some bad among them, but they still viciously slaughter their enemies and kick out anyone who enters their lands, few questions asked.

[super dark33]

welll, orcs are living in clans and tribes, they can be either good or evil, like humens