Optimize the characters

[brilliantlight]

I realize that for story/humor reasons Rich doesn't do this but if they were characters in your game how would you optimize the characters? They can either be PCs or NPCs. However you have to follow these rules.

1) You can't change their stats
2) You can't change their base class
3) You can't change their alignment or basic personality

You can add prestige classes, feats, skills and spells however.

[Marnath]

Not to knock the idea, but i'm pretty sure this has been done already a little while ago. I'm not finding it at the moment though.

[Maxios]

Well for starters I'd actually give Belkar the TRACK feat and a few points in Spot, Search, Nature, and Listen.

[Damon_Caskey]

Well for starters I'd actually give Belkar the TRACK feat and a few points in Spot, Search, Nature, and Listen.

Belkar already has the track feat... he got it for free as a 1st level Ranger. His tracking just happens to suck because he A) didn't bother putting points in Survival skill and B) has a Wisdom penalty.

He's still easily the best tracker in OOTS (the party, not the comic) just by virtue of being allowed to try tracking when the DC is >= 10.

As far as optimizing goes, there isn't much I know of that can be done for him due to ability scores; no spells is by far Belkar's main hang up. Second to that was ignoring his Animal Companion feature, but now he's got Mr. Scruffy (I'm curious as to what the advancement chart will do for a house cat).

Just as a quick touch I'd buy him a short bow, sling, or some other ranged weapon as backup, and maybe pick up a short sword for his primary hand; a one point damage boost is better then nothing at all.

DC

[Marnath]

You know Maxios, it's not necessary to post in a whole bunch of threads just to keep them above the necromancy time limit. If someone wants to talk about it after that, they can just restart the thread.

[Damon_Caskey]

Err, sorry. I didn't realise this was a necro'd thread.

On the subject, why exactly is that frowned upon? Over at Lavalit (http://lavalit.com), we prefer necromancy; in our experience it beats having 50 threads floating around on the same topic.

Granted, it is a gaming development forum where keeping notes together is desirable, but I have always been curious about the anti thread dredging thing everywhere else.

DC

[Mystic Muse]

Err, sorry. I didn't realise this was a necro'd thread.

On the subject, why exactly is that frowned upon? Over at Lavalit (http://lavalit.com), we prefer necromancy; in our experience it beats having 50 threads floating around on the same topic. Multiple threads on the same topic are closed anyway. This isn't actually a Necro'd thread though as it hasn't passed the month and a half marker yet. Not sure why Necromancy is frowned upon but that's because I forget why each time I read the explanation.

[rainbowjo]

I think its generally because people have forgotten the post and possible arguments they made months and months ago.
Though I don't know why they would lock an iconic thread like the class and geekery thread for necromancy, its such an intergal part of the forum smallfrown:

[tassaron]

The whole necroposting/gravedigging varies from forum to forum. Some forbid it outright and others encourage it in order to keep one definitive thread on each topic.

[NerfTW]

The reason is that on this forum at least, threads are very time sensitive. It's an ongoing comic. One of the biggest issues with necromancy is that the information in the thread is woefully out of date. A discussion about whether Belkar is evil or not is going to be completely different at the beginning of the comic compared to after the dungeon, when he started directly expressing it.

And it's really obnoxious when some smart aleck raises a two year old thread just to point out that the plot point being discussed has been resolved.

Also, people have already finished the discussion. Raising the thread directing questions at the people who have long since moved on is pointless, as they might not remember what their reasons were, or they might have changed. For instance, V's increasingly evil inclined behavior vs his/her's recent humility.

In a different forum, necromancy would work, but not in a forum dedicated to an ongoing comic where characters grow and change over time.

[Rad]

Also popular topica (alignment, Monk vs. Wizard, OotS movie casting etc.) would grow gigantic threads hat nobody wants to actually read.
I think that it helps keeping threads short. If anyone who wants to discuss has to read everything that has been said on the topic in the last 10 years he'd be effectively cut out from the discussion. Here, people who care would usually sumrise the point where the discussion went to in the first couple of posts, after that the thread either adds something new or dies off.

[Maxios]

I'd give V combat casting and toughness and Belkar points in survival,

[Dr.Epic]

Roy could sure use some new armor.:smallbiggrin:

http://www.costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/iron-man.jpg

[Gorgondantess]

I think I'll actually take this one seriously.:smalltongue:

Roy: chain tripper. 'Nuff said- it's one of the few good fighter builds that's really good, other than uberchargers, and that's better suited for barbarians anyways.
That, or if we want to make good use of his high intelligence, fighter 2/factotum 8/master of masks 1/warblade X, for a nice pseudo-haberdash the masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=9407437) build.

Varsuuvius: Ah, poor V. He's banned one of the best schools, and is specialized in by far the worst. Now, there's a lot of ways to optimize a wizard- doesn't matter how you're god, so long as you're still god:smalltongue:- so let's make him still a blaster. However, in this case he'll be a focused conjurer with abrupt jaunt and banning enchantment & illusion (as that can all be covered by Elan) as well as... necromancy? Yeah, probably necromancy, it's easily barrable and is one of his barred schools already. From there, grab two flaws, chaos shuffle to trade out his worthless weapon proficiencies for more feats, and go wizard 5/incantatrix 10, spending all the feats on metamagic & metamagic reducers. Essentially, a prepared mailman. Oh, and make him a fire elf or grey elf.

Belkar: Hmmm... this one is harder. Horizon walker is tempting for the ranger aspect, but if we're going "sexy shoeless god of war!", why don't we assume a high charisma and make him a ranger 2/paladin of tyranny 2 or 3/whirling frenzy spirit lion totem barbarian 1/a dip in swordsage for shadow blade/tiger claw adept 5/frenzied berzerker X. Maybe crusader instead of swordsage, but that doesn't give the nice tiger claw/shadow hand... though, of course, we could always do both, but it's starting to get eclectic anyways.

Elan: Bard/Virtuoso/Sublime Chord/More Virtuoso. He's a musician first, so virtuoso instead of that other pre-SC bard PrC (whose name escapes me at the moment... the one that focuses on magic...), but that's not to say that he can't be a good caster anyways, so sublime chord!:smallbiggrin:
Mindbender always helps for telepathy then mindsight, but I think Elan's mind is bendy enough as it is.:smalltongue:

Haley: Hmmm... this one's harder. I suppose daring outlaw (focused on rogue)/swordsage, as well as dips in stuff to maximize sneak attack... but honestly, the only rogue builds I really know well are the ones that utilize beguiler/unseen seer, and Haley definitely isn't a caster.

Durkon: Druid 20.:smalltongue:
Really, though, he's already pretty much optimized for clericzilla. I suppose knight of the raven works, but he's damn good as is.
EDIT: actually, to optimize Durkon, buy him spell compendium and show him all the good spells. Build isn't the problem, but he could use some better spell selection, and needs to learn that in-combat healing is always a bad choice. Buff & kill, buff & kill.

[Maxios]

Well I don't know much about 3.5 DnD, but if barred schools are optional, I'd get rid of them for Vaarsuvius, giving him/her/it more spell potential.

[Kish]

banning enchantment & illusion (as that can all be covered by Elan) as well as... necromancy?
What's with the three barred schools?

[Gray Mage]

What's with the three barred schools?

Focused especialist, an ACF in Complete Mage that gives you more spells of your school in exchange of a third banned school.

[Maxios]

I thought there could only be 2 banned schools.

[Dr.Epic]

Well I don't know much about 3.5 DnD, but if barred schools are optional, I'd get rid of them for Vaarsuvius, giving him/her/it more spell potential.

Would that change V's base class though (he's an evoker technically)?:smallconfused:

[Gavinfoxx]

Durkon is a Cleric. Cleric is arguably as strong as Druid. He just needs to do Divine Metamagic cheese.

Belkar: Swift Hunter for Ranger/Scout, with a level 1 dip in Barbarian for Pounce. We aren't using Experience penalties, right?

V: Ack, Conjuration is the new evocation! Really! But even with focusing on Evocation and banning useful skills, with good spell selection and, you know, Incantatrix or something, V can be really useful.

Roy is a TWO HANDED SWORD guy. So keep him with that! That means, uh, Charging I guess! So he should be a charge focused guy, and he should get levels of Warblade as soon as possible!

Haley: Rogue...uh... some roguey prestige class. She seems to like archery a lot? Iunno... for archery I would presume mostly scout/ranger, but she is definitely a rogue. hrm.

[Gorgondantess]

Would that change V's base class though (he's an evoker technically)?:smallconfused:

That's like saying a TWF ranger is a different class than an archery ranger: specialization is a class feature, not a class. They were classes back in the good ol' days of AD&D, though.:smallsmile:

@Maxios: There's an Alternative Class feature called a Focused Specialist, where you give up an additional school of magic for another 1 spell per day.

[Dr.Epic]

That's like saying a TWF ranger is a different class than an archery ranger: specialization is a class feature, not a class. They were classes back in the good ol' days of AD&D, though.:smallsmile:

Still, the class of wizard when specializing can go by a different name.

[thubby]

make roy into a charge/jump build.
focus V on save-or-suck stuff.
give haley twf and weapon finesse. or a ring of invisibility.
durkon gets to be CoDzilla
have elan take the holy powerword feat thing and some splatbook spells to make his songs give much bigger bonuses

get belkar at least one bigger weapon. depending on his current stats, maybe 2. get him the biggest, meanest animal companion he can get and take the +effective druid level feat so its beefier. and unless he's at some awkward level in ranger, advance entirely in barbarian from now until the end of his very violent life.

[SilverLeaf167]

If we kept Belkar as a Ranger, he should probably take non-spellcasting variant from Complete Warrior. It grants fast movement, +4 Dex, Con or Wis once per day, Neutralize Poison or Remove Disease once per day and Freedom of Movement once per day. Sure, they aren't that great, but if you don't want spells or don't have/want the Wisdom for them, this should do.