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View Full Version : [3.5] Armor Check Penalty: How Often is it Relevant?



balistafreak
2010-08-01, 09:34 PM
Obviously, if you're a Tumbler, you need to keep a very close eye on your ACP, because it's a check you'll have to constantly make. However, outside of this, how often is it relevant?

I ask because while I normally play 0 ACP light/no armor characters, I recently contemplated donning a suit of Heavy Plate (-8 ACP, from Races of Stone) combined with a Tower Shield (-4 ACP, PHB). The -12 looks hilarious... but, the title says, I wonder when I would actually care. Sure, I jump shorter heights than a white guy, rip through handholds with a mere touch, and sink like a stone, but the only combat application I can think of (other than nixing tumbling) is that a Grease spell utterly, utterly screws you over. (Which is why you buy Anklets of Translocation to make sure that never happens anyways.)

Flickerdart
2010-08-01, 09:43 PM
Well, Tower Shield sucks even more than normal sword&board, and your Plate should be Mithral anyway, plus the masterwork reduction. That puts you down to -4 ACP.

But otherwise, most skill penalties aren't very important in combat, and ACP is no exception. You'll be screwed if you want to Hide though. As always, magic fixes all of these things (Spider Climb, Water Walk, etc).

Defiant
2010-08-01, 09:45 PM
Tower shield is a -10 armor check penalty.

-18 is even more hilarious!

balistafreak
2010-08-01, 10:03 PM
Tower shield is a -10 armor check penalty.

-18 is even more hilarious!

-4 is from the Extreme Shield, my bad. It's the shield that doesn't give you an attack penalty. :smalltongue:

-18 would really be hilarious... but as Flickerdart says, it seems the only relevant skill in combat is Tumble, barring the occasional Balance from Grease. (Which without proper skill ranks you're probably doomed to fail anyways.)

Greenish
2010-08-01, 10:04 PM
But otherwise, most skill penalties aren't very important in combat, and ACP is no exception. You'll be screwed if you want to Hide though.Iron Silence. It's only 2nd level spell, lasts hours/level.

Flickerdart
2010-08-01, 10:08 PM
Iron Silence. It's only 2nd level spell, lasts hours/level.
As I said, magic fixes everything.

Greenish
2010-08-01, 10:15 PM
As I said, magic fixes everything.Indeed it does. :smallcool:

Defiant
2010-08-01, 10:21 PM
-4 is from the Extreme Shield, my bad. It's the shield that doesn't give you an attack penalty. :smalltongue:

-18 would really be hilarious... but as Flickerdart says, it seems the only relevant skill in combat is Tumble, barring the occasional Balance from Grease. (Which without proper skill ranks you're probably doomed to fail anyways.)

It's only a DC10. Grease is no problem to anyone not wearing heavy ACP armor.

Greenish
2010-08-01, 10:28 PM
It's only a DC10. Grease is no problem to anyone not wearing heavy ACP armor.Except that without 5 ranks in Balance, you're flat-footed while balancing. Say good bye to dex to AC, Attacks of Opportunity and to using Immediate actions. Say hello to sneak attacks and jiajutsu focus.

Defiant
2010-08-01, 11:00 PM
Except that without 5 ranks in Balance, you're flat-footed while balancing. Say good bye to dex to AC, Attacks of Opportunity and to using Immediate actions. Say hello to sneak attacks and jiajutsu focus.

So you get out of the greased area next round, while possibly taking some damage. Same idea as a plain-damage spell.

Chambers
2010-08-01, 11:10 PM
...

Graff is leaving Kyr behind if we ever need to be stealthy. :smalltongue:

Also important to note the ACP if you're not proficient with the armor:


Nonproficient with Armor Worn
A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.

Hallavast
2010-08-01, 11:12 PM
There are a lot of "skill related" mundane actions that don't require skill checks. Like walking on uneven ground, for example. If a DM were to be vindictive (and to be fair, such an absurd ACP is begging for this), he could rule that a DC 0 check might be in order. At -12 (or -18!) this may present a problem. Consider the challenge even a 5' jump may present while wearing so much armor. With a "running" start, that's a DC 5 check. If you've no ranks in the right skills and only an average Str score, you're looking at an effective DC 17 to pull that off! Plus, you've got to consider possible encumbrance penalties with that much weight. Heck, swimming would be lethal to you without magical assistance.

Glimbur
2010-08-01, 11:23 PM
I once made a dragonfire adept who wore plate and used a tower shield. Granted, he wasn't proficient in either, and being a DFA I dumped Str so my swim check was something like -15, which might have been an issue had I not a) been a warforged and b) bought a magic item to give me a swim speed. You don't have to make swim checks just to swim if you have a swim speed.