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View Full Version : [PF] Huh? Another Monk thread? But this one's different... it's Pathfinder!



Capricornus
2010-08-02, 04:40 PM
Or maybe it isn't different. I'm looking at playing in a Pathfinder game and was thinking about playing a Monk. The base classes got a bit of a working over from 3.5 to Pathfinder, but has the fate of the Monk improved at all? Does anyone have any analysis or experiences to go by thus far? I know the Advanced Player's Guide is coming out shortly (mine is in the mail as we speak). Will it change things significantly?

Any advice on building a Monk character? I have a concept in mind, if y'all are willing to make some suggestions on how to achieve the concept, I'd appreciate it.

So, here are my thoughts. The character is a bodyguard. But a sneaky type, who appears to be a helpless maid or servant, but uses that as a way to better defend their charges. Who better than a character whose every limb is a potentially deadly weapon? Monks also get good skills for this: Sense Motive, Acrobatics, Perception, some of which is based off the Monk's ostensible primary stat - Wisdom. Ideally she will use concealed weapons and attempt to lull enemies into a false sense of security. Is this doable? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Here's the stats I rolled. 17 16 13 12 12 11
I was considering Wisdom and Dex primary, and Weapon Finesse, Dodge, and an Exotic Weapon Prof. (War fan, updated for PF with DM's permission) at level one. Race: Human.

I was also considering a dip into Rogue (or Ninja, which I found a PF conversion for) for the skill bonuses, sneak/sudden strike. And maybe to do it as a pure Ninja. (In the conversion I found, has all the skills I want, Ki powers earlier, and the capacity to get the Monk's unarmed attack progression in a few levels as well as bonus damage from Sudden Strike)

To be clear, I am not looking to build the most powerful character possible. I am challenging myself to build a character to a concept instead of trying to start with a powerful mechanical option and basing the character around it.

All this may change completely when the Advanced Player's Guide gets into my hands. (Very excited about that...)

Thoughts?

Caphi
2010-08-02, 04:43 PM
It's the same monk, just with a facelift. Flurry is slightly better and the per-day stuff has been moved to a central point pool, but most of the central problems haven't gone anywhere.

9mm
2010-08-02, 05:07 PM
from what I've seen you say so far; when you get your hands on the APG; look at the "monk of the empty hand" sub levels; which specialize in improvised wepons and can spend ki points to make them magical among other tricks, this can free up skill points to maintain hidden weaponry. I'd avoid a rouge dip for sneak however, as your BAB isn't great, even if you can use your monk levels when flurrying, it would still be very low if you wanted sneak attack in any real quanty.

Gametime
2010-08-02, 05:23 PM
I'm not a fan of the "ki point" mechanic. If you want a perfectly serviceable fix for the monk, give them Paladin casting or something similar (and maybe remove some of the more bizarre supernatural abilities they get, particularly the ones that are basically "spells but bad").

Or just play the monk as written. It's not great, but in a campaign of low-to-mid power, you should still be fine.

Marnath
2010-08-02, 05:30 PM
Any attempt to fix monk should really start with giving them full BAB. I mean, they're a frontline melee class with no casting and bad skills, they should absolutely at least know how to hit things.

Fax Celestis
2010-08-02, 05:38 PM
The Pathfinder monk didn't fix any of the 3.5 monk's problems. I am told mine has (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98238), but aside from ego-maniacal tendencies I have no real guarantee that it has.

Nero24200
2010-08-02, 05:40 PM
I agree that monks still need a tune up. From someone who's played a PF monk I can say they still lack a distinction. Paizo's attempt was actually to make the Monk have-decent at combat manuvers - though they do this by giving the monk pseudo-full BAB (even though regular BAB would have been better and simpiler) and writing manovers in such a way that monks get their dodge bonuses to their CMD.

In all honesty, they gave it a boost, but no more so than than did most other classes and alot of the main problems are still there (such as the lack of focus, or even removing basic issues such as the bonus movement yet not being able to flurry while moving).

Snake-Aes
2010-08-02, 05:56 PM
Keeping it simple...
They're better, but they're still as bad as they were before. The problems remain the same.

Rixx
2010-08-02, 06:02 PM
I'd have a look at the Gorgon's Fist feat chain
if I were you. Using them, the monk can get more attacks than anyone else in the game.

Nero24200
2010-08-02, 06:04 PM
I'd have a look at the Gorgon's Fist feat chain
if I were you. Using them, the monk can get more attacks than anyone else in the game.

Sure you're talking about the right feat? Gorgon's fist doesn't provide any extra attacks at all.

lsfreak
2010-08-02, 06:10 PM
Sure you're talking about the right feat? Gorgon's fist doesn't provide any extra attacks at all.

Girallon Arms soulmeld, perhaps?

EDIT: Missed they were talking of Pathfinder feats.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-02, 06:11 PM
Sure you're talking about the right feat? Gorgon's fist doesn't provide any extra attacks at all.

Medusa's Wrath (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/medusa-s-wrath-combat---final) is the one.
Gorgon's Fist is bad, and Scorpion isn't any better. Since monks can get Medusa without that chain, and stunning fist provides the conditions for Medusa, and monks really do get lots of stunning fists, they can skip straight to Medusa.

Starbuck_II
2010-08-02, 06:20 PM
I'd have a look at the Gorgon's Fist feat chain
if I were you. Using them, the monk can get more attacks than anyone else in the game.

Drawback: 2 of the fist feats are ant-Flurry. Scorpion/Gorgon are Standard action.
Issue arises unless you have 2 people with feat chain... no benefit.

The staggering only lasts till end of turn so you can't benefit from Medusa.

Now Stunning fist stacks with Medusa (in a flurry), but only if you get lucky and stun foe.

You can't get Medusa for free till 10th level. For Bonus feats:
1) Catch off guard (fits your character). Granted, you don't benefit from dlat footed without sneak/sudden strike.
2) Dodge
3) Improved trip (if you have the needed str to trip good)
4) Medusa's Wrath

My suggestions at least