View Full Version : Using Cloak Dance feat (ExPsiHB) while mounted? (yes, sounds odd)

Andion Isurand
2010-08-02, 06:14 PM
Using Cloak Dance feat (ExPsiHB) while mounted?

Seems wierd, yes, and although 2 ranks of dance (and 10 ranks of hide) are required, the flavor text mentions nothing of dancing or a cloak.

You are skilled at using optical tricks to make yourself seem to be where you are not.

I have a character with Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, Allied Defense and who casts spells as swift actions while Arcane Spellsurge is active... and is often mounted.

Using my standard action to protect me (and my mount) with with Allied Defense Improved Combat Expertise, and my swift action for casting a spell... I was wondering if I'd be able to use Cloak Dance with my remaining move action.

2010-08-03, 12:04 AM
Eh, nothing says you can't. It's not going to help your mount, but you'll benefit. Probably not the best use of feats/skill points (just cast Blur), but it does work.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-03, 12:08 AM
Well, Blur can be peirced by True Seeing, negated by Illusion Purge and ignored by feats that overcome magical forms of concealment.

I just wanted to use my unspent move action for something while I'm standing my ground or riding a mount.

It's also a good way to spend your move action if you are a high BAB type using greater manyshot while mounted.

2010-08-03, 12:21 AM
If you're that worried about True Seeing, you can grab a novice Shadow Hands for 3,000 gp, then spend the feat on Martial Stance (Child of Shadow), gaining 20% concealment every round that you move (which is every round). Saves you a bunch of skill points, and lets you keep your move actions in case you need to grab something out of that Haversack.

Also, if you're using Spellsurge, why aren't you a sorcerer with Invisible Spell?

Andion Isurand
2010-08-03, 12:25 AM
I'm a wizard (bonus fighter feat variant) brought into Loremaster to obtain the Bardic Knack varient (PHB2) feature for skills such as Ride... gaining synergy bonus for that skill with ranks gained in Handle Animal, which is on the Loremaster list.

Well... True Seeing and See Invisiblity reveal the invisible spells anyway.
I'm not worried about them, I just like having a foolproof mundane option when going up against other casters.

And if I wanted, I could prepare/cast/activate/etc Heroics (sor/wiz 2) twice to gain Martial Study (misc) and Martial Stance (Child of Shadow) to achieve that effect. But then anything that pierces magical darkness would negate it. But at least it couldn't be undone with Illusion Purge.

But yeah, in this case, overall, there is probably a better use for this feat slot other than Cloak Dance.


Cloak Dance (ExPsiHB pg. 44)

You are skilled at using optical tricks to make yourself seem to be where you are not.

The most plausible solution of any flavor for this combination that I can come up with right now... is where I link a few long sashes to the hilt of my saber (FRCS pg. 97)... or Broadblade Swortsword (ComAdv)... making sure they are frayed and torn a bit at the edges so they tear off should they get caught by anything.

Move Actions While Mounted

If not yet in hand, I draw my saber in a flowing flourish, letting the worn sashes linked to its hilt unfurl in the wind. The drawing of a weapon can be done as a free action if combined with another move action as long as I have at least +1 BAB. In this case the move action is the movement of my "saber sashes" granting me the benefit of concealment from the Cloak Dance feat.
In other rounds, flowing flourishes of my "saber sashes" each round as a move action maintain the Cloak Dance benefits. Just gotta make sure to keep the sashes from hitting me in the face while I'm swinging the weapon mounted... bleh.

Standard Actions While Mounted

Combat Expertise +
Improved Combat Expertise +
Allied Defense (the mount is an ally)
- - - - - - - - - along with - - - - - - - - -
fighting defensively +
Martial Study (Desert Wind/Burning Blade) for max Tumble synergy

Swift Actions While Mounted

casting arcane spells affected by Arcane Spellsurge using my free hand


Although, on second thought, I could just use a Smoking weapon to grant me concealment...
which isn't an illusory effect or magical darkness....
unless there's a chance it will make the mount sick....

2010-08-03, 09:03 AM
You realize that Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, Allied Defense, and Cloak Dance are garbage feats for a caster, right? There are literally dozens of magic items and spells that grant impressive AC bonuses (Alter Self and Polymorph being the obvious examples) or concealment without nerfing your To-Hit. There's no reason you should spend 4 precious feats on them, especially since AC isn't that important at higher levels (because so many enemies have Touch Attacks or force Saves or ignore defenses altogether).

If you want something similar but better, try Winged Warrior from Races of the Wild. You need wings (which aren't hard to get via Raptorian, Dragonborn, Kobold, or any Outsider), but can take a Move Action to create a sphere of concealment, and you get total concealment against anyone outside the sphere.

2010-08-03, 09:46 AM
I'd like to point out that you can't use (Improved) Combat Expertise if you don't make an attack roll in the same turn.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-03, 01:37 PM
I know about and use those spells for AC and concealment, I just like having mundane sources add in on top of it.

I'd like to point out that you can't use (Improved) Combat Expertise if you don't make an attack roll in the same turn.

As far as making an attack roll where Combat Expertise is concerned, yeah, I know ...I just never much liked the rule that I must make an attack roll against one enemy in reach in order to defend myself from everything else firing down at me from afar. As long as I spend the requisite standard action and I take my penalties to any attacks of opportunity I make for the round, I don't see the the problem with spending the feats and getting the bonus for them.

I hope someone else feels this way.


That wing thing sounds nice, but maybe for another character.

I suppose I could just make a harmless version of the Smoking Weapon that just puts up a thick misty vapors and drop Cloak Dance.

2010-08-04, 12:06 PM
For the attacking problem, you can always just declare an attack on the square in front of you. It's always a valid option to fight against invisible creatures, and nothing stops you from doing that when you know that nothing's there. And who knows; one of these days you might accidentally hit an invisible creature while you're at it! :smallbiggrin:

Andion Isurand
2010-08-04, 03:30 PM
I like that idea... probing for invisible attackers as I ride through hostile territory, defending myself and my mount from ranged attackers.