Best lycanthrope?

[Hirax]

I've always loved the idea of playing lycanthropes, but the RHD have always made it very unappealing to me (and others no doubt), sadly. However I've just noticed that dogs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dog.htm) would actually do a pretty decent job of it, since being bitten by a feral dog isn't at all narratively farfetched, and mechanically they make an okay template. Not optimal by any means, but if you want the flavor it's not such a bitter pill to swallow. For only 1 RHD you get 1 natural armor, +2 str, +6 dex, +4 con, the feats alertness and track, +2 to fort/reflex from the RHD, and a +4 racial bonus on jump checks and survival checks to track by scent. Plus everything that comes with the lycanthrope template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm), of course, so another 2 natural armor, DR 5/silver, the iron will feat, and +2 wisdom among other things. LA of 2 is still steep, but in a higher level campaign I wouldn't mind it so much with buyback.

Anyway, it made me wonder if there were other good 1HD lycanthrope templates out there beyond the SRD. Eagle was the only SRD one I gave a second thought to, both for coolness, and you could perhaps argue for the hybrid form being able to fly. Honorable mention to hyenas, riding dogs, and baboons.

Edit: after a look in Sandstorm jackals use the same stat block as dogs, so you could also be a werejackal instead.

[Keld Denar]

Were-sheep.

Bahhhhhhhh!

[Fax Celestis]

I like were-dire-weasel on halflings and werebadger on ragers: werebadger's rage ability stacks with regular ol' barbarian rage.

[Keld Denar]

Gnome Were-badger Wizard/RageMage?

Horrible, powerwise, yet uniquely amusing.

On the other side, weasel's best feature is their attach ability. Attach is good, but not for a PC. It leaves you too vulnerable. Hmmmm, unless the goal was to use Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit to make yourself extra vulnerable and shred your foe?

[Fax Celestis]

On the other side, weasel's best feature is their attach ability. Attach is good, but not for a PC. It leaves you too vulnerable. Hmmmm, unless the goal was to use Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit to make yourself extra vulnerable and shred your foe?

...or to couple it with anything else that deals Con damage.

Spell-storing wounding necklace of natural attacks +1, storing maximized poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm), anyone?

[true_shinken]

Play a hengeyokai. Shapeshifter, almost same fluff, no LA.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use Serval, a small-size 1 HD predatory cat in Sandstorm. A Whisper Gnome Were-Seral gets +4 on Balance and Climb, +8 on Hide, Move Silently, Jump, and Listen, an extra +4 Hide in tall grass or heavy undergrowth (don't forget +4 for size on top of that), and can use Dex instead of Str on Jump checks. In Humanoid form it gets Str -2, Dex +2, Con +2, Wis +2, Cha -2, and +2 natural armor, in Hybrid or Serval form it gets an additional Str +2, Dex +6, Con +2, and +3 natural armor. It has 2 claws and a bite, along with Improved Grab (bite), Pounce, and 2 Rakes. Note that you can typically only Improved Grab a target smaller than yourself.

Also note that it has Weapon Finesse with a +0 BAB, which according to Monster Manual errata (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) means you fix this oversight by making it a racial bonus feat and giving it something like Stealthy or Alertness as its 1st HD feat. So for that 1 HD you'll get Weapon Finesse, Stealthy, and Iron Will, along with whatever feats your class levels grant.

I'd probably go Swordsage with this character, max ranks in all the skills you get bonuses to, and focus on Desert Wind and Tiger Claw with a little Shadow Hand. Take Darkstalker and nothing will ever know you're there.

[Hirax]

Play a hengeyokai. Shapeshifter, almost same fluff, no LA.

Neato! My Google fu is failing me, is the only thing worth noting about said template's 3.5 update is it becomes LA+0 and becomes a humanoid with the shapechanger subtype?


Use Serval, a small-size 1 HD predatory cat in Sandstorm.

Ooh, that's nice too, the bigger bump to con is nice. It also made me notice that jackals use the same stats as dogs, so my idea in the OP could be a werejackal. :)

[Marnath]

If RHD is getting you down, you could do what d20 modern does and just make them bonus hp rolls, nothing else like BAB, skills and stuff. Like a were-wolf, roll up a level 1 human, lets say fighter. Now roll two animal sized hitdice and add them to the hp pool. Don't max the first bonus die, only the first class die. Keep the LA.

[The Glyphstone]

Tibbits: Were-housecats. Transform into a creature famed for its ability to massacre commoners and 1st-level wizards.

[Hirax]

Ahahaha. If you were screwing around and made a werecat build (or some other animal with a fraction of a HD), how would you handle it? Giving it a full HD seems like it would be too much of a burden, but giving it no HD seems more reasonable. A weretoad would be a hilarious NPC!

[The Glyphstone]

Ahahaha. If you were screwing around and made a werecat build (or some other animal with a fraction of a HD), how would you handle it? Giving it a full HD seems like it would be too much of a burden, but giving it no HD seems more reasonable. A weretoad would be a hilarious NPC!

Dunno. But Tibbits are actually a LA+0 race all on their own, printed in Dragon Magazine Compendium. If I was making a were-fractional HD creature, I'd probably use Tibbit as a base and substitute in the appropriate animal.

[Urpriest]

One of the last Iron Chef Optimization threads had a halfling lycanthrope with some really cool hawk-race from a RotW web enhancement. I don't have the link on me, does anyone else remember what it was called?

[Marnath]

I believe you mean the afore-mentioned raptorans. The web enhancement is just about their village.

[Lhurgyof]

Were-shark, Monsters of Faerun

[RE:Insanity]

You can make a were-anythign and have it be the same LA. Were-dragon, coming right up!

[Urpriest]

I believe you mean the afore-mentioned raptorans. The web enhancement is just about their village.

Nope. Don't think anyone's ever used a raptoran for an Iron Chef on this forum, oddly enough. Anyway, the one I'm thinking of was a halfling-themed hawk. 1 HD, better stats than most 1 HD birds.

[The Dark Fiddler]

You can make a were-anythign and have it be the same LA. Were-dragon, coming right up!

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Has to be of the animal-type (and carnivorous or omnivorous for some reason...).

[Gray Mage]

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Has to be of the animal-type (and carnivorous or omnivorous for some reason...).

Probably because the disease is spread thought biting. Can you imagine a frog biting someone?

[Urpriest]

Probably because the disease is spread thought biting. Can you imagine a frog biting someone?

There are carnivorous frogs. A Toad or Dire Toad is a perfectly fine option, if more than mildly ridiculous (read awesome).

[The Dark Fiddler]

Probably because the disease is spread thought biting. Can you imagine a frog biting someone?

I imagine you've never been bitten by a llama?

I mean, neither have I, but can't you see it? :smalltongue:

[Private-Prinny]

One of the last Iron Chef Optimization threads had a halfling lycanthrope with some really cool hawk-race from a RotW web enhancement. I don't have the link on me, does anyone else remember what it was called?

That would be Little (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888409&postcount=147) Starry-Eyes, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888428&postcount=148) Were-Chordevoc Green Star Adept. She was The Vorpal Tribble's entry in Iron Chef VII.

[Marnath]

Were-deers! O.O
Males would get a gore attack, females would be out in the cold though.

[Machiavellian]

Hmmm....

How about a Were-Dire Vulture? Or Perhaps a Were-Jackal. Maybe even a Were-Raven Swarm (whatever it's actually called...)

Combo with Dustform and you have a terrifying NPC

For instance: a Dustform Kenku Were-Raven Swarm would be a nice and dangerous foe

[Gray Mage]

I imagine you've never been bitten by a llama?

I mean, neither have I, but can't you see it? :smalltongue:

Well.... you're right a were-llama would be quite awesome. But I don't think I'll be biten by one so soon, the closest one would be IDK, in Peru or maybe Bolivia, quite far from where I live. But I guess that was from where they took the restriction, although it would be better to restric to having a bite attack or something.

[Mystic Muse]

How about a Were-Dire Vulture? Or Perhaps a Were-Jackal. Maybe even a Were-Raven Swarm (whatever it's actually called...)

It's called a murder.

[Marnath]

I thought that was crows?

[Mystic Muse]

I thought that was crows?

Doh! Yeah, you're right.

Hey, it still works.

[AmberVael]

On the other side, weasel's best feature is their attach ability. Attach is good, but not for a PC. It leaves you too vulnerable.

No, see, what you do as a PC is have a high strength, carry a lot, then latch on. See how fast they drop to the ground while carrying a ravenous, half-ton were-weasel on their arm. :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

No, see, what you do as a PC is have a high strength, carry a lot, then latch on. See how fast they drop to the ground while carrying a ravenous, half-ton were-weasel on their arm. :smalltongue:

That is so epic i don't even know what to say. you win an internet :smallcool:

[HunterOfJello]

The Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) templates give some great were-like abilities that are actually worth a Level Adjustment or two.


A minion of Nephthys can transform into a Constrictor snake, crocodile, or hawk as a free action. A minion of Thoth can turn into a Baboon and a Ibis (some sort of hawk). Both only require a +1 LA and come along with immunity to fear effects.

~

This template just begs to be used by a Sorcerer who could go grab Natural Spell and spend all his time as a hawk casting fireballs at people from above.

~

For comedic effect, the best choice would be a Divine Minion of Hathor who could spend all of his time as a Bison.

[The Glyphstone]

Pity Tem-Et-Nu isn't on the list. You could Wildshape into a Hippo, and possible get Rebuked by someone with the right feat.

[Skeppio]

I think a Dire Werebat would rock. Do you get to fly in Hybrid from if the base animal can fly? Or even a Were-Anhkeg! Oh my....

[Machiavellian]

Pity Tem-Et-Nu isn't on the list. You could Wildshape into a Hippo, and possible get Rebuked by someone with the right feat.

I think that's awesome! Heck, even becoming a snake could be awesome if you have a cleric with the Scalykind domain (i think)

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Don't forget the recurring debate on Half-Dragon WereX critters. Would a medium base creature, with a large alternate animal shape, get wings in hybrid form?

Limbless man/woman is bitten by a cursed snake, from whence do the hybrid claw attacks come?

Why do Were(x) critters turn evil when the base animals are neutral? I understand it is a curse, but wouldn't becoming an amoral animal be bad enough by itself? It's an alignment issue almost as annoying as evil divine casters losing the ability to heal (because we all know that self-serving people would never feel inclined to look out for number one..).

Sure, the protagonist is a Sue, but Hamilton's books have inspired the notion of a "panwere". Why oh why couldn't the Lycanthropy template stack like Evolved Undead and lose the LA altogether?

Why didn't Wiz (as far as I know) reverse engineer the curse so that one could be a xwere as opposed to a werex (you know, animal bitten by a cursed humanoid/giant so that it gains sentience and appropriate alternate forms)?

-and why does the notion of playing a weredireweasel vampire suddenly appeal to me so very much despite the unholy +10-11 LA?

[Thrawn183]

Werebattletitan dinosaur.

[urbanpirate]

were-fleshraker

[soulchicken]

Get bitten by a rabbit and become a:

werehare!

and if your skin was very light, you'd be:

a fair werehare!

and if you liked to make sure your friends had everything they needed, you'd be a:

sharing fair werehare!

and if you gave a crap about any of this:

a caring, sharing fair werehare!

[Hadrian_Emrys]

A were-fleshraker would be terrifying.

[The Glyphstone]

Hill Giant Were-Behemoth Gorilla. CR 13.

I've always wanted to use a Cloud Giant Were-Roc too. CR 16.

[Alleran]

I put my players up against a half-dragon human weretiger (natural) Vampire Lord once. He started out with 18 STR, added +12 from Vamp & Vamp Lord, another +12 from weretiger hybrid form, then another +6 from a Belt of Magnificence followed by him self-buffing himself via potions and items with Bull's Strength. 60 STR all up, and I don't even think that was particularly optimised (it's just template stacking, after all - I would imagine that people here could increase it even further). The Vamp Lord template is lovely for letting vampires escape just about every weakness they have (no weakness to running water, can move around in daylight, not held back by garlic, cast reflections in mirrors, ignore presented holy symbols, almost impossible to perma-kill...). Unholy (no pun intended) LA of +14, though.

More on-point, though, weretigers are just about my favourite type of lycanthrope (I don't know if they're the best, though). If my players want to be one, then I generally chop off the animal HD and reduce the LA by a couple of points to compensate.

[Machiavellian]

We once had to fight a Paragon Half-Adamanitine Dragon Goliath Werebear Evolved (x3) Vampire Lord (Very Epic game with 2 casters, no Turn Undead) It sucked when he was able to use an equivelant move to a Mummy's Stare and had all but our Warforged Dragon Shaman (Blue, ironically) drooling all over ourselves. We barely escaped, mostly because the Wizard actually resorted to literally jabbing its eyes out with a sharp stick (nat 20's on both attacks, thus blinding the beast.). I soon came to and with my Master of the Nine/Divine Crusader of Hextor (thus, no healing), and made his brains explode out of the back of his head with my Dire Flail, cut his head off, shoved garlic in his mouth, staked him to the ground with both silver and wood, tied a holy symbol of Pelor to his chest, covered him in "napalm," Lit him on fire, and heaved him into a river. Needless to say, he was beyond dead. No way in Hell he was coming back!

[Greenish]

Pity Tem-Et-Nu isn't on the list. You could Wildshape into a Hippo, and possible get Rebuked by someone with the right feat.Every list would be improved by the inclusion of Tem-Et-Nu. No exceptions.

(If you disagree, take damage as if bitten by a hippo.)

[Machiavellian]

Every list would be improved by the inclusion of Tem-Et-Nu. No exceptions.

(If you disagree, take damage as if bitten by a hippo.)

Were-Hippo. Perhaps as VERY devout clerics of Tem-Et-Nu.

and Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, a PrC that appears absolutely useless until your ranger buddy gets a Hippo companion and your druid wildshapes into a Dire Hippo of Legend.

[Morph Bark]

Were-battle titan. Get epic feats.

[Lhurgyof]

The Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) templates give some great were-like abilities that are actually worth a Level Adjustment or two.


A minion of Nephthys can transform into a Constrictor snake, crocodile, or hawk as a free action. A minion of Thoth can turn into a Baboon and a Ibis (some sort of hawk). Both only require a +1 LA and come along with immunity to fear effects.

This is an Ibis:
http://www.howardsview.com/!BirdWebpageIndex/WhiteIbisJul10-02.jpg

A lot of them live in florida.

[dbauers]

I thought that was crows?

fyi, a group of ravens is called an "unkindness". no joke. :)

[Fiery Diamond]

fyi, a group of ravens is called an "unkindness". no joke. :)

Could someone please enlighten me? What's the difference between "raven" and "crow"? I always thought they were synonyms with different connotations, like "dove" and "pigeon."

[TroubleBrewing]

Were-deers! O.O
Males would get a gore attack, females would be out in the cold though.

Unless I'm mistaken, the base animal has to be omnivorous or carnivorous. Good try, though.

[Caustic Soda]

Could someone please enlighten me? What's the difference between "raven" and "crow"? I always thought they were synonyms with different connotations, like "dove" and "pigeon."

Well according to Wiki, they belong to the same Family (corvus) but the different species are called Ravens or Crows. This is similar to the relationship between wolves and coyotes, who are both Canids, but different species. Or different kinds of deer.

[Excession]

I imagine you've never been bitten by a llama?

I mean, neither have I, but can't you see it? :smalltongue:

"The llama stomped its feet, spit, bared its teeth and bit her. It eventually took five people to subdue the animal described by state police as brown, hairy and aggressive."

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070913/NEWS0107/709130446/1001

[hamishspence]

Well according to Wiki, they belong to the same Family (corvus) but the different species are called Ravens or Crows. This is similar to the relationship between wolves and coyotes, who are both Canids, but different species. Or different kinds of deer.

They don't just belong to the same family, but the same genus. Corvidae includes other genera besides Corvus.

For a parallel- there are two recognized species of Triceratops- Triceratops horridus and Triceratops prorsus. But they are both in the same genus.

The definition of Family is a bit arbitrary though- you might have families, superfamilies, and so on, leading up to Orders which are much larger groupings.

[The Glyphstone]

Unless I'm mistaken, the base animal has to be omnivorous or carnivorous. Good try, though.

Who says Dire Deer aren't carnivorous?:smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

Some deer have sharp tusks- and have been known to prey on small animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Muntjac

Hmm- Weredeer :smallamused:

[Cyrion]

And anyone who's ever seen Black Sheep knows just how carnivorous sheep can be!

Physically, ravens tend to be quite a bit larger than crows, and they can become quite substantial birds. I saw several in the zoo one time that were a good 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.

For those interested in group names of animals, take a gander here (http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/about/faqs/animals/names.htm). I've always been fond of the names for groups of cats, ferrets and cockroaches.

[Machiavellian]

To Were-Deer, it'd be quite embarassing to your DM if you told him you were a Were-Deer. Rangers would have a field day. All they need is a Daylight spell and their bow.

Were-Crocodile from Faerun is just beastly, as is the Were-Jackal, but everyone run and hide from the almighty Were-T Rex! He may not be able to tie his shoes, but don't tell him that!

[Xallace]

Were-Raven Swarm (whatever it's actually called...)

What would the hybrid form look like? Do you gain the swarm type in hybrid form? Do you become half-man-half-thousands-of-animals, or do you become a swarm of half-human-half-raven creatures?

[Urpriest]

Reading through the template description, it looks like a were-swarm would not gain the swarm subtype, but would gain swarm traits in all forms (even human), but it would not gain a swarm attack except in swarm form. However, note that most swarms seem to use the size of the initial creature, not the size of the composite, so you'd need to be within one size category of a raven in this example.