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Acero
2010-08-03, 12:10 PM
Since the dawn of RPGs, the giant rat has been noob fodder.

However, one Druid seems to have taken up their cause. This is for a little sidequest for my party (Duskblade,Paladin,Ranger,Favored Soul, and Sorcerer, levels 10-11)where they must defeat said Druid who is trying to avenge the the lives of ded rats killed by level 1 adventurers. What is the most powerful Rat I can create? Gonna throw a couple in the fray against the group alongide the Druid and his Half-dragon Rat Animal Companion.

Marvel-dude
2010-08-03, 12:19 PM
let them go up against a unarmed swordsage rat named.. Tree-piece and his 4 adoptive teenaged mutant rogue turtle daughters

Theodoriph
2010-08-03, 12:19 PM
Since the dawn of RPGs, the giant rat has been noob fodder.

However, one Druid seems to have taken up their cause. This is for a little sidequest for my party (Duskblade,Paladin,Ranger,Favored Soul, and Sorcerer, levels 10-11)where they must defeat said Druid who is trying to avenge the the lives of ded rats killed by level 1 adventurers. What is the most powerful Rat I can create? Gonna throw a couple in the fray against the group alongide the Druid and his Half-dragon Rat Animal Companion.

http://www.autographcity.co.uk/catalog/images/splinter.jpg


In all seriousness, I'd recommend going to crystal keep (www.crystalkeep.com) and perusing the list of templates. There are definitely some you can slap on to your standard rat to make him more powerful. By the way, can your hypothetical rats wear armour and accessories?

Fax Celestis
2010-08-03, 12:22 PM
Spellwarped Dark Advanced Dire Rat could do it. Also consider making the druid a wererat.

Traveler
2010-08-03, 12:23 PM
I'd vote for the titanic template.
So killed all the giant rats huh? Well how about this gargantuan one?

Severus
2010-08-03, 12:27 PM
Since the dawn of RPGs, the giant rat has been noob fodder.

However, one Druid seems to have taken up their cause. This is for a little sidequest for my party (Duskblade,Paladin,Ranger,Favored Soul, and Sorcerer, levels 10-11)where they must defeat said Druid who is trying to avenge the the lives of ded rats killed by level 1 adventurers. What is the most powerful Rat I can create? Gonna throw a couple in the fray against the group alongide the Druid and his Half-dragon Rat Animal Companion.

I'd throw huge armies of giant rats at them. Pick up and roll huge handfuls of d20s. Only hits on a 20, but if you roll enough dice.... Killing one is easy. 10 is easy. what about a couple of thousand?

BendakStarkiler
2010-08-03, 12:28 PM
I remember there is some kind of rat in one of the later MM that is huge and very deadly, its blind and has hordes of other rats the tend to it and eats them to become more powerful. It all so destroys or poisons everything around it. It has a high CR might even being in the double digits, I don't have my books with me or else Id give you more specifics. Maybe someone in the playground can pull it up. At the very least you could use it to build your killer rat.

If your looking for other rat flare with a challenge you could always make a badass NPC fighter and put the warerat template on him? Good Luck!

potatocubed
2010-08-03, 12:36 PM
Have the druid awaken all the rats and start giving them class levels.

hamishspence
2010-08-03, 12:39 PM
I remember there is some kind of rat in one of the later MM that is huge and very deadly, its blind and has hordes of other rats the tend to it and eats them to become more powerful. It all so destroys or poisons everything around it. It has a high CR might even being in the double digits, I don't have my books with me or else Id give you more specifics. Maybe someone in the playground can pull it up. At the very least you could use it to build your killer rat.

If your looking for other rat flare with a challenge you could always make a badass NPC fighter and put the warerat template on him? Good Luck!

The Rylkar, in MM V.

Moon Rats in MM2, and Cranium rat Swarms in Fiend Folio, might also be candidates for "powerful, scary rats".

BendakStarkiler
2010-08-03, 12:45 PM
Thanks for an update Hamishspence! That 100% it and would work well. I think.

Kobold-Bard
2010-08-03, 12:49 PM
Paragon Template?

Awakened Paragon Rat Druid to lead the others?

Ernir
2010-08-03, 12:55 PM
I second the Titanic template (MM2, if I recall). Accompanied by lots and lots of rats with the Mob template (Cityscape).

Urpriest
2010-08-03, 01:03 PM
I second the Titanic template (MM2, if I recall). Accompanied by lots and lots of rats with the Mob template (Cityscape).

Why use the Mob template? Rats are small enough to make into swarms. Or do you mean Mobs of Dire Rats?

The Glyphstone
2010-08-03, 01:19 PM
Ratzilla:
Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) Dire Rat.
Size/Type: Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8+23 (31 HP)
Initiative: +11
Speed: 120 ft.
Armor Class: 51 (+12 Luck, +12 Insight, +11 Dex, +5 Natural, +1 Size), touch 46, flat-footed 40
BAB/Grapple: +0/+3
Attack: Bite +36 melee (1d4+27 plus disease)
Full Attack: Bite +36 melee (1d4+27 plus disease)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Scent, Fire Resistance 10, Cold Resistance 10, Spell Resistance 40, Fast Healing 20, DR 10/Epic.
Saves: Fort +20, Reflex +23, Will +20
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 32, Con 27, Int 16, Wis 27, Cha 19
Skills: Climb +29, Hide +26, Listen +21, Move Silently +22, Spot +21, Swim +29
Feats: Alertness, Toughness, Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: The Mind of a Deranged DM
Organization: Solitary (you hope)
Challenge Rating: Technically 15 1/3.
Treasure: None.

Disease: Filth Fever, Fort DC 36, Incubation 1d3 days, damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con.

Spell-Like Abilities: Greater Dispel Magic, Haste, See Invisibility 3/day. Caster level 15th.

Ernir
2010-08-03, 01:21 PM
Why use the Mob template? Rats are small enough to make into swarms. Or do you mean Mobs of Dire Rats?

Because I always forget that swarms exist. :smallredface:

Gray Mage
2010-08-03, 01:27 PM
Talking about swarms, Libris Mortis has a corpse and a skeletal rat swarm. Not of a high CR, but could fit the theme as the rat that lv 1 PC killed are back and trying to kill them.

NowhereMan583
2010-08-03, 01:28 PM
There was a Kaiju template in a Dragon magazine a few years ago - that might do the trick.

Edit: I checked - it was Dragon #289.

Dr.Epic
2010-08-03, 01:29 PM
Why not just stack up as many templates as you can on the most powerful rat-like base creature you can find?

Oslecamo
2010-08-03, 01:37 PM
Talking about swarms, Libris Mortis has a corpse and a skeletal rat swarm. Not of a high CR, but could fit the theme as the rat that lv 1 PC killed are back and trying to kill them.
That reminds me of the MM III ephemereal swarm. Basically a swarm of rat ghosts wich is wickedly good. No save str damage, flies, and when you combine undead+swarm+incorporeal immunities it's pretty much impossible to slow down unless the party has some super-turning cleric. I'll assure you your party will learn to fear the rats!

nahmoss
2010-08-03, 01:39 PM
cranium rats

Lysander
2010-08-03, 01:57 PM
I remember seeing an awakened rat lich posted on these boards a while back. I forget who made it, but it was very terrifying.

Machiavellian
2010-08-03, 02:15 PM
Legendary Titanic Dire Rat Paragon

Fax Celestis
2010-08-03, 02:17 PM
Don't forget rat barding.

The Glyphstone
2010-08-03, 02:18 PM
I did the work calculating Paragon. Someone else can figure out what adding Titanic or Monster of Legend does to it.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-03, 02:20 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krickpK2b11qzkweyo1_500.jpg
http://www.designverb.com/wp-content/images/2008/02/jeffdeboer.mouse1.jpg

Umael
2010-08-03, 02:20 PM
Nezumi.

(See d20 Rokugan - give them class levels.)

Subotei
2010-08-03, 02:40 PM
Wererats could be interesting - kinda moving into Swords of Lankhmar territory there - a secret human/rat council directing a conspiracy to take power.....

urbanpirate
2010-08-03, 08:07 PM
anthromorphic,titanic, monster of legend,feral (if you can string the 4 together), greenbound? make them poisonous? make the rats all druids? awakened umbral or shadow rat clerics of bane or some such. (multiple consumptive fields active and overlapping )

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-08-03, 08:22 PM
Just give him the feat Greenbound Summoning from Lost Empires of Faerun, and he can Summon Nature's Ally III for 1d4+1 Greenbound Dire Rats. As soon as they appear they'll Wall of Thorns the PCs, and it will ruin their day.

hotel_papa
2010-08-03, 08:23 PM
I've gotten a lot of mileage with fiendish dire rats with swarmfighting.

fryplink
2010-08-03, 08:25 PM
have them (the rats) return as some ridiculous not-undead (the positive energy ones) from the BOED, or have them some back as some form of undead and hand-wave the fact that the druid should view them as abominations

Flickerdart
2010-08-03, 08:29 PM
Lernean Multi-Headed Ash Rat. The only way to kill it is with acid. Add half-golem or some other way to resist it, and not even that works anymore.

Siosilvar
2010-08-03, 08:36 PM
Mob of Swarm of Titanic Legendary Paragon Pseudonatural Dire Rats? Stack other templates as desired.

Tiki Snakes
2010-08-03, 09:37 PM
Awakened Rat Psions take my vote. It just feels right, somehow. Few templates, just a couple of class levels.

Eldariel
2010-08-03, 09:48 PM
Awakened Rat Psions take my vote. It just feels right, somehow. Few templates, just a couple of class levels.

Cranium Rats are pretty much those, premade.

Moose Fisher
2010-08-03, 10:16 PM
Cranium Rats are pretty much those, premade.

Yeah, toss in some Cranium Rats to make the PCs dread a hoard of 'innocuous' rats.

Marnath
2010-08-03, 11:29 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krickpK2b11qzkweyo1_500.jpg
http://www.designverb.com/wp-content/images/2008/02/jeffdeboer.mouse1.jpg


Lol, i would not have expected anyone to have actually made rat barding. Oh look, a lance mounting. Now you need a bunch of tiny fey calvalry to ride your Fullplate-barding dire rats. :smallbiggrin:

balistafreak
2010-08-03, 11:52 PM
We're two pages in and no one has mentioned Incarnum (R)ats yet? :smallamused:

drakir_nosslin
2010-08-04, 12:08 AM
Cranium Rats are pretty much those, premade.


Yeah, toss in some Cranium Rats to make the PCs dread a hoard of 'innocuous' rats.

Thirded, or something. Cranium rats are awesome for makin characters run and hide as soon as they see something remotely rat-like...

Jastermereel
2010-08-04, 12:10 AM
Why limit yourself to pre-existing rat mobs and templates.

Take other iconic monsters and re-fluff them.

Give them......the tarRATsque!

Eurus
2010-08-04, 01:32 AM
Swarms of half-dragon rats would be fun, just for breath weapon spamming. Pray that they think to put up an energy resistance spell after the first volley...

Marnath
2010-08-04, 01:34 AM
Swarms of half-dragon rats would be fun, just for breath weapon spamming. Pray that they think to put up an energy resistance spell after the first volley...

that template gives a breath weapon 1/day. So thats irrelevant unless you're suggesting that each volley comes from a different swarm.

Ajadea
2010-08-04, 01:42 AM
Halfling (or other Small) Druid. Advanced (to 6 HD, and therefore Medium size) Feral Warbeast Dire Rat in full-plate barding.

Also, 6 HD half-dragons can take the Dragon Breath feat and become able to spam their breath weapon as often as a dragon.

Marnath
2010-08-04, 01:43 AM
I know they can take that feat, but rats aren't even a full HD, let alone 6.

SurlySeraph
2010-08-04, 01:57 AM
have them (the rats) return as some ridiculous not-undead (the positive energy ones) from the BOED, or have them some back as some form of undead and hand-wave the fact that the druid should view them as abominations

You're thinking Deathless, but that's not what you want. What you want is the Vivacious template from the Planar Handbook. Anything within 30' of the rat, or that it shoots with a ray attack it can use at will... is healed. But if it's at full HP, it's affected as if on a Positive-dominant plane. Which means a DC 20 save or die. Glowing rats healing you to death would certainly make for a memorable encounter.

Ajadea
2010-08-04, 01:58 AM
The DM can raise the HD of the Rat Swarm to 6, because what the DM says goes, and it's not particularly hard.

From there, by RAW, a swarm is a single 6 HD creature, and can take the Dragon Breath feat.

Origomar
2010-08-04, 02:21 AM
http://www.autographcity.co.uk/catalog/images/splinter.jpg


In all seriousness, I'd recommend going to crystal keep (www.crystalkeep.com) and perusing the list of templates. There are definitely some you can slap on to your standard rat to make him more powerful. By the way, can your hypothetical rats wear armour and accessories?

A rat with monk levels its perfect!

Thurbane
2010-08-04, 03:22 AM
Titanic Dire Rat

Gargantuan Animal
Hit Dice: 25d8+225 (338hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 26 (-4 size, +20 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+45
Attack: Bite +29 melee (3d8+22 plus disease)
Full Attack: Bite +29 melee (3d8+22 plus disease)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, Trample 3d8+22
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +25, Ref +14, Will +15
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 11, Con 28, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +26, Hide -11, Listen +4, Move Silently +1, Spot +4, Swim +26
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (B), Great Fortitude (B)
Challenge Rating: 13
Alignment: Always neutral

Disease (Ex): Filth fever—bite, Fortitude DC 31, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a titanic creature can trample Huge or smaller opponents. This attack deals points of damage equal to 3d8 + 1 1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 37) for half damage.

Octopus Jack
2010-08-04, 03:58 AM
A rat with swordsage levels its perfect!

Fixed it for you, though i think that's been said

Killer Angel
2010-08-04, 04:10 AM
The most important thing is the defense.
Luckily for you, this is easy: apply the template Immortal (http://www.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http://www.colorare.it/img/tom-e-jerry-3-b438.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.colorare.it/tom-e-jerry-3.htm&usg=__6inRsrdqqnOOCP1cPYaAMWdZ9M0=&h=880&w=660&sz=61&hl=it&start=2&tbnid=7f10CzhbN8-XYM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtom%2B%2526%2Bjerry%26um%3D1%26hl%3Di t%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1R2ADFA_itIT389%26biw%3D1253%26 bih%3D598%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C449&um=1&itbs=1&ei=2C1ZTMHlIdq5jAelksDfDA&biw=1253&bih=598).

Morph Bark
2010-08-04, 04:48 AM
Spellwarped Dark Advanced Dire Rat could do it. Also consider making the druid a wererat.

And make the rats he lords over rat-weres.

Raistlin1040
2010-08-04, 04:52 AM
There was a Kaiju template in a Dragon magazine a few years ago - that might do the trick.

Edit: I checked - it was Dragon #289.
O.o
I must find this.

Nero24200
2010-08-04, 05:53 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tia-Rat yet. I can't remember the specifics of it, but it involved a normal rat + loads of templates, and the end result was a gigantic rat with several heads all with different breath weapons.

Morph Bark
2010-08-04, 06:55 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tia-Rat yet. I can't remember the specifics of it, but it involved a normal rat + loads of templates, and the end result was a gigantic rat with several heads all with different breath weapons.

Titanic template and several Chimeric templates?

kestrel404
2010-08-04, 08:27 AM
Well, just because I thought it was fun, I took a dire rat and added templates/HD until I thought that they would make an interesting challenge. Here's the results, hope you like them.



Super RAT
Medium Abberation
Hit Dice: 6d12+48 (85 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 31 (+7 Dex, +14 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+6
Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+10 +1d6 acid plus poison & disease)
Full Attack: +16/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+11/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9 Bite(1d8+10 +1d6 acid plus Poison & disease) / Claw (1d6+10 +1d6 acid)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, Poison, Acid
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Darkvision 60', scent, Spell Resistance 17
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +11, Will +7
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 24, Con 26, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +18, Hide +12, Listen +10, Move Silently +12, Sense Motive +7, Spot +10, Swim +18
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Power Attack, Improved Initiative
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or pack (2-5)
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: None
Alignment: NE
Templates (In Order): Arachnoid, Horrid, Magebred, Half-Dragon, +5HD, Spellwarped

'Super' rats are cunning, malevolent and territorial foes. Though fully sentient, these abominations cannot speak and their hatred for all things not rat is profound.

A Super rat has grown to be 6 feet long and weigh over 150 pounds.

Combat

Super rats attack fearlessly, often in packs, biting and chewing with their sharp incisors.

Disease (Ex): Filth fever—bite, Fortitude DC 11, incubation period 1d3 days, damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Poison (Ex): Based on Dire Spider venom, this poison does 1d4 str damage immediately, and again in 1 minute, Fortitude DC 21 to avoid.

Breath Weapon (Su): Inherited from their Sand-Dragon parentage, the Super Rat may use a Grit Breath attack, 6d8 damage in a 30' cone, Reflex DC 18 for half.

Acid (Ex): As the Super Rat's body secretes a powerful acid, dealing an additional +1d6 acid damage each time they hit with a natural attack (claw/bite)

Extra Limbs (Ex): Super rants have 8 clawed feat.

Spell Absorption (Ex): Each time they are hit by a spell which is negated by their spell resistence, the Super Rat gains 5*spell level temporary hit points.

Improved Natural Attack (Ex): Super rats gain the Improved Natural Attack feat for each of their attacks.

Difficult (Ex): Super rats are difficult to control. Handle Animal or Diplomacy checks to deal with them are at a +2 difficulty.

Immunities (Ex): Super rats are immune to Mind affecting, sleep, paralysis, fire, criticals, and precision damage.

Skills: Dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. Dire rats have a +8 racial bonus on

Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

Eldariel
2010-08-04, 08:57 AM
Lol, i would not have expected anyone to have actually made rat barding. Oh look, a lance mounting. Now you need a bunch of tiny fey calvalry to ride your Fullplate-barding dire rats. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, in a FUDGE game we tied scalpels to the backs of lab rats (with 4 fingers; we were the labrats, tho with human brains) and killed a marine with them.

Thrawn183
2010-08-04, 09:10 AM
Why not just reskin a tyrannosaurs?

flabort
2010-08-04, 09:20 AM
Although he IS the DM, it's more fun this way.

Half-dragon Titanic Spell-warped were-(Half-Dragon Spell-warped Dire-rat) anthromorphic Dire-rat

fryplink
2010-08-04, 11:17 AM
You're thinking Deathless, but that's not what you want. What you want is the Vivacious template from the Planar Handbook. Anything within 30' of the rat, or that it shoots with a ray attack it can use at will... is healed. But if it's at full HP, it's affected as if on a Positive-dominant plane. Which means a DC 20 save or die. Glowing rats healing you to death would certainly make for a memorable encounter.

thanks, and I like the healed to death idea, having done a similar encounter in one of my campaigns where an evil angel showed them the "mercy of god"

Kaww
2010-08-04, 11:47 AM
Why not home brew them? Check out the http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.0Index-Templates.pdf you should find tons of fun stuff if you don't want to make them yourself.

Regards!

Skeppio
2010-08-04, 10:01 PM
Why not home brew them? Check out the http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.0Index-Templates.pdf you should find tons of fun stuff if you don't want to make them yourself.

Regards!

Be warned though, stuff from Crystal Keep isn't 100% accurate.

Anyway, I vote Dire Rat + Titanic + As many heads as a Gargantuan creature can have with Multiheaded + Vampire (For Rat Swarms and Blood Drain) + Awaken Creature + Druid Levels (Dire Rat Companion) + The prestige class in Dungeonscape that can have multiple animal companions (all Rats, Dire Rats or similar product).

I name him "Ohdeargodswhatthehellisthathorriblemonstrosity?!?"

Kaww
2010-08-05, 02:20 AM
Be warned though, stuff from Crystal Keep isn't 100% accurate.


True, but they give you the name of the book and the page # where you can find accurate info.

Regards!