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View Full Version : Armor Doesn't Fatigue When You Just Rest? [3.5]



Temotei
2010-08-03, 03:09 PM
Sleeping in Armor
A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#sleepinginArmor).

So, does this mean simply resting (not sleeping) in medium or heavy armor will not fatigue you?

Spiryt
2010-08-03, 03:11 PM
Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#sleepinginArmor).

So, does this mean simply resting (not sleeping) in medium or heavy armor will not fatigue you?

Is there something like "only resting" in 3.5 mechanics?

Dr.Epic
2010-08-03, 03:13 PM
If you're looking armor that won't let you get fatigued, there is Armor of the Unending Hunt from Complete Warrior.

Ernir
2010-08-03, 03:14 PM
Yup. It's the stuff you need to do to regain arcane spell slots, naturally heal HP, and such. Requiring sleep rather than just rest would be a bit unfair to things that don't sleep, like elves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there is any benefit to actually sleeping. :smalltongue:

Temotei
2010-08-03, 03:18 PM
Is there something like "only resting" in 3.5 mechanics?

Sleeping isn't required to restore hit points or spell slots, but resting is.


If you're looking armor that won't let you get fatigued, there is Armor of the Unending Hunt from Complete Warrior.

Nah. I'm just curious.


Yup. It's the stuff you need to do to regain arcane spell slots, naturally heal HP, and such. Requiring sleep rather than just rest would be a bit unfair to things that don't sleep, like elves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there is any benefit to actually sleeping. :smalltongue:

I don't think there is, actually. It's just assumed that when you rest, you're sleeping, but it doesn't actually say you're sleeping, so...yeah. You could just be rather relaxed for eight hours. :smallamused:

Spiryt
2010-08-03, 03:24 PM
Sleeping isn't required to restore hit points or spell slots, but resting is.


Still, I would say that any attempts at "just resting" instead of sleeping would just be lawyerish attempts at 'optimizing' :smalltongue:

I would say, no to the thread title, aside from the fact that you need to sleep from time to time to rest, armor on 24/7 doesn't help. :smallwink:

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-03, 03:42 PM
*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun :smallsigh:

ScionoftheVoid
2010-08-03, 04:05 PM
That seems to be true. I'm running a game soon so that's good to know, though it probably won't come up. Nice work finding something new!

drengnikrafe
2010-08-03, 05:11 PM
Something similar has been done to this. Rather than avoiding armor penalty, though, they were working towards another goal in the time gained (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html).

thompur
2010-08-03, 06:19 PM
My books are currently in storage, but, as I recall, in MIC there is a crystal that you can attach to magic armor* that lets you sleep in armor and still be rested, with no penalties.


*I believe the Crystals can only be attached to magic armor, I could be wrong.

Ernir
2010-08-03, 06:26 PM
My books are currently in storage, but, as I recall, in MIC there is a crystal that you can attach to magic armor* that lets you sleep in armor and still be rested, with no penalties.


*I believe the Crystals can only be attached to magic armor, I could be wrong.

Restful Crystal, 500GP.

It counts as a least crystal, so it can be attached to any armor of masterwork quality.

Aroka
2010-08-03, 07:44 PM
*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun :smallsigh:

The big list of idiots pretending the game should have explicit rules for every facet of life, whether it's significant or not, and whether it's altered from baseline reality or not?

Coidzor
2010-08-03, 07:49 PM
*facepalm*

I'll just add this to the list, after "Buckets of Healing" but before Pun-Pun :smallsigh:

Alphabetically it'd go on before "B" for Buckets, due to being "A" for Armor.

FMArthur
2010-08-03, 08:02 PM
This really isn't a big deal, but I guess it is something to be said for elven warriors, who need the help anyway. It's probably not a rules loophole since the rules distinguish between just 'resting' and sleeping. It's a miniscule advantage for races that don't need to sleep. I don't know why you'd even associate this with Pun-Pun or healing-by-drowning.

Rin_Hunter
2010-08-03, 08:05 PM
In one of the Dragon magazine OotS comics, I'm sure this has been made fun of, along with eating only once every 3 days to avoid starvation and not bathing because there's no downside to being dirty.

thompur
2010-08-03, 08:19 PM
Restful Crystal, 500GP.

It counts as a least crystal, so it can be attached to any armor of masterwork quality.

That's the one.
Thanks Ernir!

So just get arestful crystal. Problem solved.:smallsmile:

Coidzor
2010-08-03, 08:25 PM
Oh gods.... I just imagined the dead parrot sketch. x.x

Greenish
2010-08-03, 11:37 PM
Still, I would say that any attempts at "just resting" instead of sleeping would just be lawyerish attempts at 'optimizing' :smalltongue:Damn those warforged/elves/elans! They're all just lawyerishly optimizing!

Marnath
2010-08-03, 11:48 PM
I should think that "resting" in armor would still be just as uncomfortable as sleeping in it, because presumably you're sitting/kneeling in it, which is something it wasn't designed for so corners and things jab into you. I suppose if you really want to know what it's like you could ask some of those medieval reinactors to try it out, see how tired they are in the morning from sitting in armor vs. lying down in it all night.
Actually come to think of it, there are rules for this. You have to make fort saves vs. fatigue for a certain period of time beyond 24 hours in which you haven't slept/tranced.

Temotei
2010-08-03, 11:55 PM
I should think that "resting" in armor would still be just as uncomfortable as sleeping in it, because presumably you're sitting/kneeling in it, which is something it wasn't designed for so corners and things jab into you. I suppose if you really want to know what it's like you could ask some of those medieval reinactors to try it out, see how tired they are in the morning from sitting in armor vs. lying down in it all night.
Actually come to think of it, there are rules for this. You have to make fort saves vs. fatigue for a certain period of time beyond 24 hours in which you haven't slept/tranced.

D&D 3.5, however, isn't reality. It doesn't matter what logic says when the rules say otherwise! Until the DM says so.

Do you have a link to that sleep rule?

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-03, 11:58 PM
I don't know about the books, but in SRD, there are two references to sleeping where magic is not involved: that armor clause and hustling. Apparently, you can't hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles without taking nonlethal damage and getting fatigued.

Other than that, can't find any rules on sleeping that doesn't involve spells or magic items or supernatural abilities.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-04, 12:00 AM
I wonder if it means elves can trance in any armor without penalty.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-04, 12:18 AM
The big list of idiots pretending the game should have explicit rules for every facet of life, whether it's significant or not, and whether it's altered from baseline reality or not?
Y'see, the problem is that WotC wrote their game poorly.
First they create a defined term ("resting") to fix one problem ("elves and warforged don't sleep, how do they recover spells?").

Then they attempt to create verisimilitude by adding penalties for "sleeping" in armor.

And then they don't bother to either alter their term of art ("resting") to include sleeping OR define the term "sleeping" to include "resting." This is why you have so many RAW arguments in 3.5 - half the rules are written like a legalistic rules text and the other half are written in layman terms. You lose both the clarity of legal text while adding the confusion that comes from implied textual canons to lay-speech! And it would have been so easy to just add a single line "Resting in armor invokes the same penalties as sleeping in armor" - if that's even what they meant to do!

Heck, can you even say that WotC intended resting in heavy armor to impose the same penalties as sleeping in it? Before I read their definition of Rest and the rule regarding Sleep & Armor I would have assumed that they did - but now I have as much a reason to assume otherwise! And why are there rules for penalties for going without food or drink but not sleep? It's not that uncommon an occurrence after all - much more common than getting turned to stone and we have rules for that!
So no, I'm not "pretending" the game was written to cover all aspects of life - I'm pointing out that arbitrarily picking-and-choosing which mundane aspects of life to treat as rules-worthy is going to result in absurd results like "buckets of healing" and this case :smallannoyed:

Marnath
2010-08-04, 12:27 AM
D&D 3.5, however, isn't reality. It doesn't matter what logic says when the rules say otherwise! Until the DM says so.

Do you have a link to that sleep rule?

I can't find it now! :smallfrown: I could have sworn it was in somewhere with the rules for regaining spells or forced marching. The way i remember it being worded is something like: "there are no rules for working hard and exerting yourself throughout the day because it is assumed most adventurer's can handle a normal amount of exertion is any given 24 hour period. Beyond that, every hour you go without sleeping calls for a DC(something) fort save vs fatigue, with a cumulative +1 to the DC every time you succeed. On a failed save you become fatigued. further failed checks result if exhaustion." I can't find it anywhere though! *sob* I can't have imagined something like that, can I?

Eloel
2010-08-04, 12:41 AM
I can't find it now! :smallfrown: I could have sworn it was in somewhere with the rules for regaining spells or forced marching. The way i remember it being worded is something like: "there are no rules for working hard and exerting yourself throughout the day because it is assumed most adventurer's can handle a normal amount of exertion is any given 24 hour period. Beyond that, every hour you go without sleeping calls for a DC(something) fort save vs fatigue, with a cumulative +1 to the DC every time you succeed. On a failed save you become fatigued. further failed checks result if exhaustion." I can't find it anywhere though! *sob* I can't have imagined something like that, can I?

Did you check Rules Compendium? Away from my books, I can't check, but it's a possibility..

Rin_Hunter
2010-08-04, 12:45 AM
Did you check Rules Compendium? Away from my books, I can't check, but it's a possibility..

The Rules Compendium doesn't change anything. You sleep in armour to become fatigued and you can rest in order to heal and regain magic.

Marnath
2010-08-04, 01:08 AM
I don't even know where to find the rules compendium, so i doubt i saw it there. Perhaps i am remembering some sort of homebrew idea posed by a person in a previous thread on this topic?

2xMachina
2010-08-04, 04:32 AM
Next, you'd be resting standing up with your eyes open, and weapon in your hands.

Greenish
2010-08-04, 05:52 AM
Next, you'd be resting standing up with your eyes open, and weapon in your hands.It's very relaxing.

Besides, isn't that how warforged casters rest?

Tyndmyr
2010-08-04, 06:50 AM
Then they attempt to create verisimilitude by adding penalties for "sleeping" in armor.

Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-04, 08:43 AM
Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in.
I'm pretty sure sleeping in a suit of full-plate - no matter how "properly fitted" - is going to be problematic; moreso for off-the-rack gear like scale mail and banded mail.

Deadmeat.GW
2010-08-04, 09:59 AM
My experience in full plate for those few occasions I had to sleep in it was that it was hot and uncomfortable on your back but otherwise not an issue.

And doing some light stretching after I woke up made sure I was not feeling sore either.

On the other hand this was for just sleeping like 4 or 5 hours between tournament bouts in grand melee which could last up to an hour.
I probably would have felt sleeping on shards of glass comfortable after that.

Ashes
2010-08-04, 10:09 AM
Don't psions actually have to sleep to regain power points? Or am I remembering wrong?

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-04, 10:10 AM
Don't psions actually have to sleep to regain power points? Or am I remembering wrong?

Elans don't sleep, do they?

Psyx
2010-08-04, 10:35 AM
"I don't know about the books, but in SRD, there are two references to sleeping where magic is not involved: that armor clause and hustling. Apparently, you can't hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles without taking nonlethal damage and getting fatigued."

So Elves and creatures that can't sleep can never hustle? That's by the logic of this thread.


"Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in."

Ho-ho-ho. I have passed out several times in a mail shirt. And woke up with a aches and pains every time. I can't imagine ever doing it in anything heavier. Not for more than one night, anyway. Not and being a functional human being the next day.
And I can sleep on concrete, with bricks for a pillow, next to a pneumatic drill... in daylight.

If your case is correct, then why didn't the Roman legions sleep in armour?

deuxhero
2010-08-04, 10:44 AM
Still, I would say that any attempts at "just resting" instead of sleeping would just be lawyerish attempts at 'optimizing' :smalltongue:

I would say, no to the thread title, aside from the fact that you need to sleep from time to time to rest, armor on 24/7 doesn't help. :smallwink:

Actually, if you are an elf it would be a good argument. Not enough reason to be an elf, but an argument I may allow.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-08-04, 10:54 AM
Ho-ho-ho. I have passed out several times in a mail shirt. And woke up with a aches and pains every time. I can't imagine ever doing it in anything heavier. Not for more than one night, anyway. Not and being a functional human being the next day.
Ironically, because mail shirts are Light armor, you suffer no penalties from sleeping in them no matter how the RAI comes out :smalltongue:

Draz74
2010-08-04, 11:27 AM
Restful Crystal, 500GP.

It counts as a least crystal, so it can be attached to any armor of masterwork quality.

For the same price, you could also get your magic armor enchanted with the Restful property from Dungeonscape.

You can't share it with your friends, and the armor does have to be magical already. But it frees up a slot for another armor crystal, and it also gives you a +5 bonus to hear things (nighttime ambushes) while you're asleep.

Lothmar
2010-08-04, 12:42 PM
Next, you'd be resting standing up with your eyes open, and weapon in your hands.

Yeah, have the druid cast that spell from complete divine that roots you in place standing up that also heals/refreshes you (or you can add a metal loop to your armor and hook yourself up with an animated rope/chain that can hold your weight in armor with lockable joints in case you slowly fall forward), and then either use a locked gauntles or take soulknife (dont dismisse / weightless) and then get a magic item that keeps you hydrated so that your eyes dont dry out/sting from prolonged periods of not blinking.

Aotrs Commander
2010-08-04, 12:50 PM
D&D has never handled fatigue especially well. In reality, the PCs wouldn't be traipsing around all day everyday in full plate, let alone sleeping in it (not and be functioning at peak efficency anyway). Doubly so when fighting in hot weather. I remember about the only time I went to a LRP event, some of the chaps there were in full plate, and they were drinking water like anything and didn't stay geared up all day. (And bear in mind, this is in England's merry "summer"...!)

The sad thing is Fatigued and Exhausted conditions are perfectly okay, it's just their application outside of spells has never really been well-thought out (like, at all...!)

I actually looked at doing a proper fatigue system for D&D, where you had exhausting points (about 10 x your Con) and they went down gradually and only came back if you slept and ate. A bit like Rolemaster's system it was designed so that under normal circumstances, you'd never need to worry about it, but it stopped thing like manouver or invocation spam (and by spam, I mean, like hundreds per day and extracting the urine) as well as the fight hacking the mountain with his greatsword.

In the end, though, I decided it wasn't worth bothering about, since a) I can live with glossing over that bit of reality (i.e. armour fatigue) and b) as I apply real-world logic in all cases except those in which the character's abilities specifically negate it (e.g. spells, supernatural and some extraordinary abilities). So if my players try to work round some silly portion of the rules (like buckets of healing), just I hit them with the DMG or a Maximised Disintegrate. (Yes, the players, not their characters.)

jpreem
2010-08-04, 01:01 PM
"I don't know about the books, but in SRD, there are two references to sleeping where magic is not involved: that armor clause and hustling. Apparently, you can't hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles without taking nonlethal damage and getting fatigued."

So Elves and creatures that can't sleep can never hustle? That's by the logic of this thread.


"Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in."

Ho-ho-ho. I have passed out several times in a mail shirt. And woke up with a aches and pains every time. I can't imagine ever doing it in anything heavier. Not for more than one night, anyway. Not and being a functional human being the next day.
And I can sleep on concrete, with bricks for a pillow, next to a pneumatic drill... in daylight.

If your case is correct, then why didn't the Roman legions sleep in armour?

WHY did you PASS OUT :smallbiggrin: MAybe the answer to this question explains those aches and pains :smallbiggrin:

Psyx
2010-08-04, 03:31 PM
WHY did you PASS OUT :smallbiggrin: MAybe the answer to this question explains those aches and pains :smallbiggrin:

I don't fall asleep, I pass out. I just walk around until I get a narcoleptic attack!


Ironically, because mail shirts are Light armor, you suffer no penalties from sleeping in them no matter how the RAI comes out

It struck me as ironic too. When I read that rule, I did think 'like hell!'

By RAW, a mail shirt includes a helmet doesn't it? So I could have had a helmet on and still not been fatigued...


Anyhow... isn't there a 500gp sleeping bag that also allows you to sleep in armour?

And 'called' armour is also dirt cheap, and a fixed price, rather than a 'plus'.

true_shinken
2010-08-04, 07:42 PM
Which is odd, because properly fitted armor is actually not at all a problem to sleep in.

Not a problem? Have you ever heard or armor fungi?