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View Full Version : [E]A question about Stealth



Algerin
2010-08-03, 05:09 PM
What are all the things that could be used to hide? For example, would shadowns count, even though they don't "technically" grant concealment? What about difficult terrain, if your character is small? I'm thinking of a specific example where there were many smashed crates and barrels about, but it was only dificult terrain?

Also,one other thing- Why don't Kobold PC's get darkvision? My DM absolutely refuses to houserule anything, so that means my Kobold Assassin can't see in the dark, but every other kobold can?

Yora
2010-08-03, 05:34 PM
The SRD says Kobold characters get Darkvision, and I'm fairly sure the MM says so as well.

If something can be used as cover to hide behind is completely to the judgement of the dm. When he says it's big enough, it is.

Ravens_cry
2010-08-03, 05:37 PM
Are we talking 3.5?
Because a Kobold PC does get darkvision.



Kobold characters possess the following racial traits.
* * *

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Swok
2010-08-03, 05:51 PM
Since he's talking about the Stealth skill, and an Assassin (a base class in 4e)

I'm going to go out a limb here and assume 4E, where the entry for PC kobolds are listed as not getting darkvision even though their monster entry in the MM has them with it.

Weird.

Snake-Aes
2010-08-03, 05:53 PM
Since he's talking about the Stealth skill, and an Assassin (a base class in 4e)

I'm going to go out a limb here and assume 4E, where the entry for PC kobolds are listed as not getting darkvision even though their monster entry in the MM has them with it.

Weird.

So basically a typo that causes lawful stupid dms to make kobolds suddenly go blind by gaining class levels.

Algerin
2010-08-03, 06:11 PM
So basically a typo that causes lawful stupid dms to make kobolds suddenly go blind by gaining class levels.

Yeah, pretty much. I only ask because maybe it WAS a typo. oh well, guess I'm stuck with my blinded Kobold -_-

ericgrau
2010-08-03, 06:12 PM
Dunno about 4e but in 3e you need either cover or concealment to hide. That seems like the kind of thing that would stay the same in 4e. Cover is any object or creature between you and the observer. Concealment is anything that obstructs vision, such as shadowy illumination (partial darkness) or fog, covering you or between you and the observer. This is all partial cover or partial concealment. If you have total cover or total concealment, there is of course little or no reason to hide because you can't be seen anyway.

So, yes, shadows count because they do grant concealment. Terrain counts because the random crates and barrels grant cover.

In 2e darkvision was sacred and kept away from PCs in various ways. So maybe he's playing 2e and the "no you're a PC you can't have darkvision" is intentional.

Algerin
2010-08-03, 07:35 PM
Sorry about the title, there was supposed to be a [4E] there in the title. So yes, this is all fourth edition.

Tiki Snakes
2010-08-03, 07:36 PM
Yeah, I guess he missed the 4 from his bracket, there. That would make sense.

If so, the thing to remember is that the Kobold entry is only really a template for the DM if he wants to make NPC's with classes, in theory.

You'll notice that many of the races that got updated to full legitimate PC write-up were rebalanced and generally tweaked. Given that Kobolds in the MM entry DO get Darkvision, and technically the race entry is for the DM first, I can only assume that it is an error.

HOWEVER, being allowed to use it at all comes at the cost of asking the DM nicely, so you may as well just ask him nicely if you could have Darkvision like in the entries, or perhaps compromise on Low-Light vision, (Which is more Player Friendly).

As for the hiding situation, unless you have feats or utility powers or so on, I believe you need BETTER than cover or concealment to make a stealth check. If you had the assassin power up that allows you to make stealth checks at basic concealment etc, then I'd say crouching behind some rubble whilst outside of the main light sources should be plenty, but that depends really on whether the enemy had Darkvision or similar, too.

Eorran
2010-08-03, 10:08 PM
Just re-checked the player's handbook 2 - there's a re-write of the stealth rules there.

In order to become hidden, you must meet one of three categories: total concealment, superior cover, or outside of the enemy's line of sight. Outside of combat, you can hide from a distracted enemy (one who isn't paying attention to you) even without one of these three.

In order to stay hidden, you must have cover or concealment, not speak louder than a whisper, and not move more than 2 squares (or move & take a penalty to Stealth)

potatocubed
2010-08-04, 02:09 AM
Remember when trying to gain total concealment (for hiding) that a kobold is three feet tall and pretty thin. If one of the other party members is wearing wizard robes or a long skirt, you can probably get total concealment by standing behind them.

KillianHawkeye
2010-08-04, 07:04 AM
Remember when trying to gain total concealment (for hiding) that a kobold is three feet tall and pretty thin. If one of the other party members is wearing wizard robes or a long skirt, you can probably get total concealment by standing behind them.

Yeah, but where were you planning on hiding? I think the Wizard or lady in question might have a problem with that.... :smalleek: