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aeauseth
2010-08-03, 05:59 PM
I was looking at the Spelldancer PrC from Magic of Faerun and was trying to figure out the earliest you could get something out of this PrC.

There some critical prereqs: 4 feats, 6 dance, 4 tumble, 3rd level spells. Plus 2 more feats (Extend, Presist) to make the PrC really useful, for a total of 6 feats.

Entry at Level 14: The generic build seems to be Wizard13/Spelldancer1. You could substitue Wizard for just about any spell casting class. I was considering Cleric or Archivist.

Entry at Level 10: You need 3rd level spells so have to be at least a 5th level caster. Starting Feat (1) + Human Bonus (1) + Two Flaws (2) + Level3Bonus (1) + Wizard5Bonus (1) = 6 feats. So you could qualify as early as level 6. Simple human build of Wizard5/SpellDancer1, however 6 ranks of the crossed class dance skill pushes this out to Wizard9/SpellDancer1

Entry at Level 7: A Wizard1/HumanParagon3/Wizard2/SpellDancer1 works a bit better. Your a 5th level caster (3rd level spells). Take Perform as your Human Paragon class skill.

Is there a way to gain earlier entry than level 7?

Fax Celestis
2010-08-03, 06:02 PM
Human Bard 7 with two flaws can walk right in.

Eurus
2010-08-03, 06:04 PM
Human Bard 7 with two flaws can walk right in.

And a Bard 7/Spelldancer 1 can take Sublime Chord in two more levels.

EDIT: Can it be done in fewer levels? Well, probably, but you'd be incredibly feat-starved. You probably wouldn't be able to meet the prereqs and get Extend and Persist.

DragoonWraith
2010-08-03, 07:48 PM
You also don't need to have Extend and Persist before taking levels. A human with 2 flaws starts the game with four feats, and none of the feats in question require anything that you can't have at first level. A human without flaws still has 4 feats by level 6, so you don't even have to rely on that. Plus a Wizard can take one of the flaws as his 5th level bonus feat, allowing entry at 5th - if you can get the Perform ranks.

To do that, you need it as a class skill, since we don't want to wait until level 9 (for that matter, where's level 14 coming from? You need 6 ranks - you can have that cross-class at level 9). Best way to do that (for a Wizard) is to take Apprentice (Entertainer) from the DMG2 (which also gets you Diplomacy, which is nice). That's another feat, of course, but then you can also take the Fighter Bonus Feat ACF for the Wizard to swap Scribe Scroll for one of the pre-req feats. Thus:

Human Fighter-Bonus-Feat Wizard 5, take Apprentice (Entertainer) as your first level feat, Dodge as your Human bonus feat, and Mobility as your Wizard-getting-Fighter-feats bonus feat. At third, take Endurance or Combat Casting, and at 5th, take the other (as either a Wizard feat for Combat Casting, or as a Fighter feat for Endurance). Put your skills into the appropriate places (including 4 in Tumble cross-class; expensive but it's a good skill and you can afford it with your Int). Ta da, you now qualify, at 6th, for Spelldancer.

Olo Demonsbane
2010-08-03, 08:28 PM
There some critical prereqs: 4 feats, 6 dance, 4 tumble, 3rd level spells. Plus 2 more feats (Extend, Presist) to make the PrC really useful, for a total of 6 feats.

Human Martial Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Spelldancer 1

1st: Dodge
Human: Endurance
Wiz: Mobility
Flaw: Combat Casting
Flaw: Arenal (sp?) Focus (Perform)
3rd: Sanctum Spell

You qualify for Abjurant Champion by having someone cast Divine Power (CL 7) on you as you level up.

Then use the Cityscape ACF to trade Ride for Tumble, and you can enter at level 4.

dextercorvia
2010-08-03, 08:36 PM
Human Martial Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Spelldancer 1

1st: Dodge
Human: Endurance
Wiz: Mobility
Flaw: Combat Casting
Flaw: Arenal (sp?) Focus (Perform)
3rd: Sanctum Spell

You qualify for Abjurant Champion by having someone cast Divine Power (CL 7) on you as you level up.

Then use the Cityscape ACF to trade Ride for Tumble, and you can enter at level 4.


I'm missing how this is possible with Divine Power, unless you are beign level drained.

Edit: Aside from being personal range, it sets your BAB to your Character Level.

Kylarra
2010-08-03, 08:42 PM
Human Martial Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Spelldancer 1

1st: Dodge
Human: Endurance
Wiz: Mobility
Flaw: Combat Casting
Flaw: Arenal (sp?) Focus (Perform)
3rd: Sanctum Spell

You qualify for Abjurant Champion by having someone cast Divine Power (CL 7) on you as you level up.

Then use the Cityscape ACF to trade Ride for Tumble, and you can enter at level 4.Divine power is range personal though...

Amphetryon
2010-08-03, 09:00 PM
Divine power is range personal though...
Ocular Spell can fix that, among other things, IIRC.

Kylarra
2010-08-03, 09:02 PM
Ocular Spell can fix that, among other things, IIRC.True enough, but with that much cheese, you might as well abuse PaO and such...

dextercorvia
2010-08-03, 09:59 PM
Ocular Spell can fix that, among other things, IIRC.

It doesn't fix the Character Level -- not Caster Level problem.

Glimbur
2010-08-03, 10:00 PM
You might be able to bum an Inspire Greatness off of a bard or use other tricks to get temporary HD.

aeauseth
2010-08-04, 01:17 PM
You qualify for Abjurant Champion by having someone cast Divine Power (CL 7) on you as you level up.

At best this is cheesy, at worst downright cheating. You would only qualify for Abjurant Champion for the duration of Divine Power. Once the spell ended wouldn't you loose all Abjurant Champion abilities & class features?

I'm extrapolating the rules about feats and loosing the underlying prereqs. For example relying on a +2 STR item to qualify for Power Attack. If you removed or lost the +2 STR you may no longer qualify for Power Attack, you still have the feat but it isn't usable.

One could also extrapolate the Ex-paladin or fallen class rules. You loose spells and abilities but not proficiencies.

aeauseth
2010-08-04, 01:19 PM
I like most of the suggestions here and it appears the limiting factor for early entry is the casting of 3rd level spells. So take 5 levels of whatever and your 6th level could be Spelldancer.

Did I miss a trick/posting on how to get 3rd level spells before level 5?

Amphetryon
2010-08-04, 02:12 PM
I like most of the suggestions here and it appears the limiting factor for early entry is the casting of 3rd level spells. So take 5 levels of whatever and your 6th level could be Spelldancer.

Did I miss a trick/posting on how to get 3rd level spells before level 5?

Depending on DM interpretation, Illumian (UrKrau) or Earth Spell could both manage it ahead of schedule.

true_shinken
2010-08-04, 02:26 PM
I like most of the suggestions here and it appears the limiting factor for early entry is the casting of 3rd level spells. So take 5 levels of whatever and your 6th level could be Spelldancer.

Did I miss a trick/posting on how to get 3rd level spells before level 5?

Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten should work on classes like Beguiler, Warmage and Dread Necromancer. Gets you 3rd-level spells at 4th.
Also, Sanctum Spell.
...but ealy entry is cheesy as hell anyway, specially when you are trying to pull out something as cheesy as spelldancer-persist.

Vangor
2010-08-04, 03:54 PM
Human Martial Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Spelldancer 1

1st: Dodge
Human: Endurance
Wiz: Mobility
Flaw: Combat Casting
Flaw: Arenal (sp?) Focus (Perform)
3rd: Sanctum Spell

You qualify for Abjurant Champion by having someone cast Divine Power (CL 7) on you as you level up.

Martial Wizards are not proficient with any martial weapons as far as I recall. Never mind you are abusing an absurd interpretation of the Abjurant Champion class features qualifying as a Metamagic feat to qualify for Sanctum Spell. Of course, this is all dependent upon abusing the interpretation of Sanctum Spell for being able to cast 3rd level spells. Plus, this requires a loose interpretation of spells qualifying you for prerequisites and simultaneously a stiff interpretation of Divine Power giving you the BAB of the caster.

This is a great deal of really open and loose interpretation required.