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ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-08-03, 10:10 PM
How do you generate ability scores?

A) 3d6
B) 4d6 drop the lowest
C) pointbuy (any version)
D)predetermined stat set given to players
E) I make them up based on how I want the character to be
F) other (please explain)

I'm just curious to see how many people do what. I'm typically either a B or a C but I've been known to use E for plot important NPC's. and ONCE I used D. . . it actually worked well i might do it again.

Mystic Muse
2010-08-03, 10:11 PM
C or a variation of B such as re-roll ones.

Awnetu
2010-08-03, 10:15 PM
5d6, reroll ones, best 3.

Roll 2 sets of 6, pick whichever.

so it would be

13
14
16
17
10
9
vs

18
10
14
14
15
12

Kalrik
2010-08-03, 10:19 PM
I like high powered super heroic games, so I usually give the players an array of stats: 18 16 15 14 13 12. Then I just treat them as one level higher for terms of CR's they can survive. The PC's are guarenteed to be good at what they do and everyone is on equal terms stat wise.

Another fair array is 16 15 14 12 12 10. maybe drop the 14 to a 13 and the 10 to an 8 or 9. A lot depends on the relative power I want the PC's to have.

I am a fan of the 4d6 drop the lowest, but it sucks when one person rolls three 18s and another character has stats that are over ten, but the single best stat is 14. To battle this, I implement the 4d6 drop the lowest after rerolling all 1's.

ghost_warlock
2010-08-03, 10:29 PM
I prefer point buys (C). It allows for at least some variation in stat arrays among the party while avoiding the issues involved where some player(s) roll much better/worse than the others.

The Rose Dragon
2010-08-03, 10:29 PM
C or D, considering the games I play (i.e. not D&D) tend to use those.

That is, as a player. As a GM, I tend to go with whatever I like.

Glimbur
2010-08-03, 10:31 PM
I usually let PC's point buy. Games I play in are sometimes point buy and sometimes ridiculous rolling like 5d6 best three, seven times.

NPC's have exactly the stats I tell them to have. Not formally point buy, but whatever numbers I think will let them challenge but not overpower the PC's.

World Eater
2010-08-03, 10:34 PM
We just use B in our group.

Kylarra
2010-08-03, 10:36 PM
For most characters I prefer pointbuy, rolling does have its own "fun" though, and as a GM I always just make up the stats.

For fun though, 4D6 drop lowest rolls:
16
5
15
11
13
5

wow, gonna try again
17
6
12
15
15
15

interesting.

Crossblade
2010-08-03, 10:36 PM
Point Buy. Easily fairest all around.

Mystic Muse
2010-08-03, 10:37 PM
Point Buy. Easily fairest all around.

of course, this depends on the pointbuy.

Kylarra
2010-08-03, 10:39 PM
of course, this depends on the pointbuy.
Fairest from an "each player starts with the same-ish stats" PoV, not from the results after being pushed through 3.X's skewed "class" system.

Mystic Muse
2010-08-03, 10:44 PM
Fairest from an "each player starts with the same-ish stats" PoV, not from the results after being pushed through 3.X's skewed "class" system.
Okay, then yes, it's fairest.

derfenrirwolv
2010-08-03, 10:52 PM
4d6 drop the lowest. I'm a purist (but not an insane purist.. no 3d6 in order thank you very much)

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-08-03, 11:02 PM
the bigest problem i've seen with rolling stats is usually the player who got a 17, 13, 11, 11, 8, 5. paired up with the player who got 18, 18, 16, 15, 15, 12. . . Some imbalance is created that tends to upset some people. . .

Masaioh
2010-08-03, 11:05 PM
42 point buy. I don't like rolling dice for stats because it can create huge gapes between players.

Swordgleam
2010-08-03, 11:06 PM
C for long games, A or B for short ones.

Randomness can be good fun and inspiration, but it's really annoying to have one character always be able to outshine another throughout the course of a campaign with no real way of leveling it out, just because of a few lucky turns of a d6 at the start of the game.

Ozymandias9
2010-08-03, 11:06 PM
5d6b3 in order (at least 2 over 12, none under 6). Gets playable characters, but often forces you to expand your class repertoire and comfort zone. I often find limits, interestingly enough, are great tools to encourage creativity.

Tequila Sunrise
2010-08-03, 11:10 PM
Point Buy.

jiriku
2010-08-03, 11:16 PM
Point Buy. Helps with the balance.

Hurlbut
2010-08-03, 11:23 PM
B with reroll all 1s.

BobVosh
2010-08-03, 11:23 PM
Point buy

But I'm starting to miss 4d6B3. It had a charm about it.

Private-Prinny
2010-08-03, 11:24 PM
Point Buy, every time. I usually use 32 points.

Telasi
2010-08-03, 11:32 PM
As a AD&D 2e fan, I tend to use 3d6 and assign. Otherwise, it's standard 4e 22-point buy.

NowhereMan583
2010-08-04, 12:00 AM
4d6 drop the lowest. I'm a purist (but not an insane purist.. no 3d6 in order thank you very much)

+1.

It may not be true with all groups, but I find that point buy often encourages min-maxing. Since I usually have one or two players who optimize, and three or four who have probably never heard the phrase "optimized build" associated with gaming, anything that encourages min-maxing just throws off the dynamic.

Edit: Because anything that encourages min-maxing increases power disparity when only one or two players optimize. Thought I should clarify.

Temotei
2010-08-04, 12:10 AM
Two sets of 4d6b3. Pick your favorite.

One one-time real-life DM used four sets of 4d6b3. If the player characters ended up very different with stats, he altered them to be slightly more equal.

JonestheSpy
2010-08-04, 12:13 AM
I like to think my method is the best of both worlds. Players get X number of points to divide between 3 stats of their choice, then roll and take the best 3 out of 4 dice for the other 3 stats, in order, no switching around.

This allows for deliberate character design, but still has that wonderful random element. In my current campaign, we've got a fighter-bodyguard type who ended up with a Charisma of 5, which is pretty amusing since he has to interact with the public a lot, and an Aasimar Wilder who rolled a natural 18 Strength - we decided she looks like a normal small-frame, skinny young woman who tends to surprise people a lot when she picks things up.

Shpadoinkle
2010-08-04, 12:14 AM
Point Buy. Easily fairest all around.

Yeah, because the weak classes (fighters, monks, etc) totally don't need good scores in more than one stat! And the strong classes (wizard, druid, etc.) can hardly scrape by with only one good stat! I mean, by god, a full caster focused almost or absolutely entirely on his casting stat? Hell, he might as well just jump off a cliff and create a fighter!

RickGriffin
2010-08-04, 12:35 AM
Yeah, because the weak classes (fighters, monks, etc) totally don't need good scores in more than one stat! And the strong classes (wizard, druid, etc.) can hardly scrape by with only one good stat! I mean, by god, a full caster focused almost or absolutely entirely on his casting stat? Hell, he might as well just jump off a cliff and create a fighter!

Okay, so then you roll 4d6 drop lowest and the wizard puts his highest stat into INT and the others are on average left with weaker numbers for their other stats anyway (???)

All that does is mean that the Wizard needs to make one good roll out of six instead of three. It's not a problem with the point determination system, it's a problem with the classes.

Popertop
2010-08-04, 12:44 AM
My group rolls 4d6 drop the lowest, but we never keep tens or elevens.
Kinda like, what's the point might as well use point buy 44 and choose the stats you want. :/
The only reason we don't use point buy is cause my DM hates it.
He always gets his way, so it's not looking good for point buy in our group.
*shrug* whatever

Still, rolling for stats does have that magic charm to it.

I like to roll 4d6 drop lowest in order, makes more sense to me, and can give me some starting points in where I want to take the character.
I'm sure I'll get around to rolling 3d6 for some campaign if I'm feeling particularly masochistic. :smallamused:



:roach::roach::roach:

Kylarra
2010-08-04, 12:46 AM
Yeah, because the weak classes (fighters, monks, etc) totally don't need good scores in more than one stat! And the strong classes (wizard, druid, etc.) can hardly scrape by with only one good stat! I mean, by god, a full caster focused almost or absolutely entirely on his casting stat? Hell, he might as well just jump off a cliff and create a fighter!That's a class issue, not a stat generation issue, and it's not like rolling stats helps it.

sambo.
2010-08-04, 12:52 AM
no character has ever been as special to me as the 1ed Paladin i fluked with the good old 3d6 straight-down-the-page method.

the dice gods smiled that day. 18/67 str, 17 Con and 18 Cha along with the Wis pre-req.

int and dex weren't utter crap either (10 and 11 iirc)

Malificus
2010-08-04, 01:25 AM
My recent GMs have all done 4d6 reroll 1s and 2s, drop the lowest. They used to have a rule of fours, where if all the dice are the same without rerolls, add them all together for the result, even if they're 1s or 2s (so you could get an 8 by rolling all 2s, or 24 by rolling all 6s). I've had a character do so bad they let him reroll 3s.

I had my group do point buy for my E6 campaign though. Two of them HATE point buy. The other two are fine with it.

I had one gm do 3d20, keeping the best one, where doubles or triples were added together. He also threw in a DMPC and trated LA - as LA 0. It wasn't a very fun game for my level 1 sorcerer. It was also my second or third day of ever playing D&D.

I want to play a game where it's 3d6 down the line.

Ozymandias9
2010-08-04, 02:51 AM
That's a class issue, not a stat generation issue, and it's not like rolling stats helps it.


It can actually lessen the disparity in extreme examples (i.e. if casters end up running up against their keyed stat limiting what level of spell they can cast). But that comes up VERY rarely. Usually, you'd just choose a different class.

Andion Isurand
2010-08-04, 05:27 AM
I have on occasion awarded stat increases based on accomplishments and effective charcater play... to characters with underwhelming stats compared to the rest of the group.

Amphetryon
2010-08-04, 05:31 AM
4d6b3x7 drop lowest. If you end up with less than 28 points, you get a 28pb.

I prefer to use a straight 28 point buy, but my current group seems to have difficulties with the concept.

EDIT: I've also used (6 + 3d4)x6 for a campaign. Nothing lower than a 9, with all scores in the 9 - 18 range and 11 - 14 being the norm.

Kaww
2010-08-04, 05:41 AM
B with rerolls if DMG allows it when I play.

When I DM: 6*5d6. Reroll if highest one is lower than 16, or sum of all modifiers is lower than 6.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-08-04, 06:08 AM
I allow A and B, but C is strongly encouraged. At some point I'm going to find a rolling method that averages about the same as 40 point buy but probably not soon.

Xefas
2010-08-04, 06:18 AM
I've usually done 30 Point Buy in the past. However, looking at (E), I somehow get the feeling that if I told my players "Alright, screw it, just right down whatever the hell stats you feel like your character would have, or you think you need, or what you deserve or whatever. Don't care." they'd probably have the shame/decency to gravitate around a 30 point buy or less anyway.

Hell, I'd probably get a hoot out of someone giving themselves 18s in all of their stats. I'd play it up bigtime. Like "You were secretly engineered as the perfect human specimen in an alchemical laboratory; everything you think you know about your past is all a lie!"

Maybe bump up the difficulty very slightly. Not all that necessary, considering a Wizard with all 18s isn't all that much better than a Wizard with one 18, and a Fighter with all 18s isn't anything special anyway.

Curmudgeon
2010-08-04, 06:34 AM
C)

Rolling is for cheaters, IMO.

Aotrs Commander
2010-08-04, 07:07 AM
Nowadays C; specifically base 8, 30 points, point-for-point. Saves the faffing around rerolling the characters with poor stats to match the luckier players so everyone is kinda even. I don't like the core point-buy, since I don't think it is necessary to penalise high stats for anyone, SAD or MAD.

(My method comes out to an average of about 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, or approximately a 38 point-buy in the core system (48 at max with 3 18s and 3 8s.)).

Bosh
2010-08-04, 07:14 AM
Point buy, but I'd be fine with rolling the stats in order and then keeping them (with perhaps minor adjustments). I really don't like roll then arrange since it seems to combine the sort features of point buy and completely random car-gen (i.e. roll down the line and don't re-arrange the stats) while losing out on most of the benefits of both.

Kylarra
2010-08-04, 08:15 AM
It can actually lessen the disparity in extreme examples (i.e. if casters end up running up against their keyed stat limiting what level of spell they can cast). But that comes up VERY rarely. Usually, you'd just choose a different class.I think we can chalk that one up to "statistically unlikely", since you can also lessen the disparity by deliberately not putting your points in good places for your class or otherwise making poor choices as a higher tier. So it's not a bonus inherent in the method. Admittedly there's something to be said about being "forced" to do it by your rolls, rather than choosing to do it, but that would require you to be significantly attached to a particular class before rolling.

Traveler
2010-08-04, 08:21 AM
B, with the option of trying again if they get bad stats.

Badgerish
2010-08-04, 08:23 AM
(90%) Point-buy or (10%) fixed arrays.

I feel rolling for stats is for temporary characters (like Hackmaster 5th)

Just-choose-your-own-stats? never, ever heard of this.

Yora
2010-08-04, 08:25 AM
Always point buy (c) in my groups.

Terazul
2010-08-04, 08:48 AM
The group I usually play with likes B with reroll 1s or a variation thereof, though I'm slowly converting them to the side of C with the higher LA = lower point buy shenanigans from E6. "Oh man I can actually play <insert race here> without being gimped forever?" Why yes. Yes you can.

Everyone always seems to end up with ludicrously high stats with B anyway (especially with reroll 1s), and even if most people don't and one person does, the DM usually gives the lowbies extra points anyway. Personally I prefer Point Buy so we can just skip all that and just go straight to the stats you want.

thompur
2010-08-04, 09:42 AM
In the last two groups in which I played, we were given 84 points to distribute amongst the 6 stats, no stat under 6, or over 18 before RA. These were relatively high powered campaigns. Otherwise we prefer B.
I have been playing for 30+ years, and have been very fortunate in that no player or DM I've encountered has ever complained about others having better stats, or being more powerful. No one seems to care. They're just there to have fun, and socialize with their friends.

PretzelKing
2010-08-04, 09:43 AM
last character i rolled my DM let me try d8, 2d6, d4 drop the lowest. worked out pretty well. we decided beforehand if i rolled max on the d8 and 2d6's that id have to drop a d6 and use the d4 instead. it was a kick in the teeth when i rolled a 1 on a d8, but oh well.

im no doctor though, can anyone tell me if this method works out statistically better/worse than the standard 4d6 drop the lowest?

The Dark Fiddler
2010-08-04, 09:53 AM
Well, when my group started we only had 3d6s, but wanted to do 4d6b3, so we did a strange thing in that we did 3d6 reroll the lowest until you get higher.

fortesama
2010-08-04, 10:12 AM
we used to go with random rolls in our earlier games but then I introduced the point buy system to them when they began complaining about low stat rolls. it's been like that ever since.

Telonius
2010-08-04, 10:19 AM
F/D. One free 18. For the rest, d8+10, reroll any one, once. Arrange as desired. For people the dice absolutely hate: 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, arrange as desired.

... and be assured that the difficulty of the enemies will be dialed up. :smallamused:

Thefurmonger
2010-08-04, 10:21 AM
Pathfinder either 10 or 15 Point Buy

Mr.Moron
2010-08-04, 10:26 AM
I like point buy, mid-high 30s (34-38 range). It really lets you get some interesting spreads for the more MAD characters. It buys you some extras on SAD characters, but doesn't do anything revolutionary since they just work fine even on sub-20 PBs.

Serpentine
2010-08-04, 10:29 AM
Combination of D and F. Everyone gets one 8 (or less) and one 18, placed where they want. Then roll 5, ditch lowest 2. Limited rerolls are allowed with permission of the DM. Interesting sets, rather than high ones, are encouraged.

Emmerask
2010-08-04, 10:30 AM
28 pb for tier 1 classes
30 pb for tier 2
...
36 pb for tier 5

not realistic in any way but a bit of balancing and low tier mad classes become more playable :smallwink:

and sometimes b)

Erom
2010-08-04, 11:07 AM
Point buy. Only fair way to play.

I'll go with it if the DM decides otherwise, but I really dis-prefer rolling.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-08-04, 12:41 PM
if ~6 players the usual 4d6 minus lowest. If 6 then I've always wanted to do a low magic complete differentiation game:

F. 23 TOTAL point buy with a required 18 in 1 stat but 1 in all others (int 1 -> int 3). Each player chooses a different stat. No 2 players are allowed the same race, template, feat, or class level.

Dizlag
2010-08-04, 01:22 PM
I play in three different games, so here it is for each of them ...

1) Hackmaster ... 3d6 right down the line
2) D&D with the wives ... 4d6 reroll 1s and 2s drop the lowest and take the best of 2 sets
3) Savage Worlds has a point-buy equivalent, but our D&D sessions are 4d6 drop the lowest

Dizlag

Remmirath
2010-08-04, 01:26 PM
B or E.

4d6, drop the lowest if starting at relatively low levels; make them up if starting at epic level as we assume the character wouldn't've gotten that high level if they had poor stats.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-08-04, 01:57 PM
28 pb for tier 1 classes
30 pb for tier 2
...
36 pb for tier 5

not realistic in any way but a bit of balancing and low tier mad classes become more playable :smallwink:

and sometimes b)

how does this work with multiclassing? i take 1 level of monk then 19 levels of wizard. . . yay go me

Savannah
2010-08-04, 01:59 PM
Real-life: 4d6, reroll 1s, take the best three.

On these forums (because rerolling the 1s is a pain with the die roller): 5d6b3.

I'm very generous with rerolls. I don't think I've ever denied a request to reroll if the player doesn't like their stats for some reason, and I have players reroll if I think their stats are worse than the rest of the group. If they still can't get a decent rolls, I'll allow a point-buy of approximately what the rest of the group has (only had to do that once).

subject42
2010-08-04, 01:59 PM
I've been using a 29 point buy for my games lately. It's pretty close to 4d6 drop lowest, but gives the player some control.

Siosilvar
2010-08-04, 02:10 PM
Usually 32ish point buy, though I made a point-buy calculator that works up to 564 (that's 30s in all stats) just in case.

I've been considering rolling and giving a pool of points for circumstance bonuses for lower-statted players; this idea may even work with "choose your own stats".

Thorcrest
2010-08-04, 02:29 PM
Tend to go with 4d6b3, one set, allowed to reroll any total under 8 (Must keep new reroll, yes, even if its worse).

or 4d6b3, one set, allowed to reroll if total modifers are under +2 (Must reroll all stats and take new set.)

Really want to do a down the list game to get my players out of their niches, but currently in a campaign, so maybe I'll have to TPK them :smalltongue:

As a DM, I tend to just make up the NPC Abilities so that they are a fair challenge for the PCs, unless its a lazy encounter (read:random/it's 2 AM) then I'll just give them all 12s or use the MM stats.

wick
2010-08-04, 03:20 PM
I prefer point buys so in that regard you don't have Mr Uber (who spent 3 hours rolling dice in the game store rolling dice until he found the "right " dice to buy but claims that his dice are fair) having better dump stats than other player's primary stats.

Nobody want to play the party chump just because they did not roll well.

Dr Bwaa
2010-08-04, 03:31 PM
7x [4d6 drop lowest], drop lowest. Then (depending on which of us is DMing) there's either a really complicated or really eyeballed method of adjusting the people who rolled less well up closer to the highest roller.

Occasionally it will be different, like our all-monk campaign where WIS and either DEX or STR were automatically set to a minimum of 16, or the plague campaign I run where the PCs started out as Commoner 1.

Fhaolan
2010-08-04, 07:17 PM
We don't bother with ability score generation. It's pretty pointless, anyway as magic items and class abilities vastly overwhelm the small bonuses/penalties from stats pretty quickly. We just balance the scores 'by feel' between the characters. The muscle-bound barbarian gets a high strength of 16-17 or so at 1st level. The swashbuckler-type gets a high dex, etc. The group agrees as to what the ballpark scores should be for each character, and we go from there.

drengnikrafe
2010-08-04, 07:42 PM
People always look at me funny when I say this, but...

You are given 6 points, and must buy 6 equations. Each equation is independing of the others, and the only linking factor is the pool of points.
For 0 points, roll 3d6 (Avg 10.5)
For 1 point, roll 2d6+6 (Avg 13)
For 2 points, roll 2d4+10 (Avg 15)
For 3 points, roll 1d6+15, round down (Avg 16.5)

If you have leftover points, you may then spend them in the following fashion:
At the cost of 1 point, you may increase...
Something between 3 and 7 by 3.
Something between 8 and 14 by 2.
Something between 15 and 17 by 1.
You may not further increase an 18.

This allows you to focus on any number of stats, and if you're a wizard and want an 18, by jove you'll have that 18 no matter if you roll only 1's.

My group has used this system since it's creation, and we have never once changed a thing.
In case you're wondering, this system was created because I never got anything but painfully low rolls. This was made to make sure I could play a playable character, among other reasons.

DonEsteban
2010-08-04, 07:59 PM
I kind of like this.

In practice, we've mostly used 32PB or some 4d6 variant.

But for the sake of this discussion here are two interesting possibilities:

X) Card drawing: From a deck of cards take one Ace, two 2s, three 3s, four 4s, four 5s, four 6s. Shuffle them and put them in six groups ą three cards. Add the values in the groups for six ability scores. You may add a joker or assign additional points for more flexibility, but that's the core idea.

Y) Up and down: Roll 3d6, record the result for score 1. If it was 12 or lower, roll a d6, add it and record the result for score 2. If it was 13 or higher, roll a d6, but subtract it and record the result for score 2. Repeat four more times adding if the last score was at least 13 or subtracting if it was at most 12. Voilą. Start with a fixed value (such as 10) instead of 3d6 for even less variance.

Both methods should give results with more randomness than PB but more fairness (arguably) than nxd6 methods.

Ozymandias9
2010-08-05, 06:07 AM
Since this thread jogged my memory, I once played with a DM who used a particularly unusual option: 4d6-4, min 3. It still averages out to 10, but it has a wider spread.

Yora
2010-08-05, 06:12 AM
X) Card drawing: From a deck of cards take one Ace, two 2s, three 3s, four 4s, four 5s, four 6s. Shuffle them and put them in six groups ą three cards. Add the values in the groups for six ability scores. You may add a joker or assign additional points for more flexibility, but that's the core idea.
I did this once in a group I played. The ability to make minor adjustments in the end gives you a much greater flexibility, as you can use the joker to get one score really high, or to make a very low score into an average score, if you want to.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-08-05, 07:38 AM
People always look at me funny when I say this, but...

You are given 6 points, and must buy 6 equations. Each equation is independing of the others, and the only linking factor is the pool of points.
For 0 points, roll 3d6 (Avg 10.5)
For 1 point, roll 2d6+6 (Avg 13)
For 2 points, roll 2d4+10 (Avg 15)
For 3 points, roll 1d6+15, round down (Avg 16.5)

If you have leftover points, you may then spend them in the following fashion:
At the cost of 1 point, you may increase...
Something between 3 and 7 by 3.
Something between 8 and 14 by 2.
Something between 15 and 17 by 1.
You may not further increase an 18.

This allows you to focus on any number of stats, and if you're a wizard and want an 18, by jove you'll have that 18 no matter if you roll only 1's.

My group has used this system since it's creation, and we have never once changed a thing.
In case you're wondering, this system was created because I never got anything but painfully low rolls. This was made to make sure I could play a playable character, among other reasons.

Do you mind if I take this to use as my rolling method? It looks really good.