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fortesama
2010-08-04, 10:44 AM
Our wizard just picked up a Contact Other Plane and played with it a bit. Turns out that the DM's going to sic a tarrasque at us eventually, though probably around the time when we have 9th level spells, so i'll prep a miracle or two as a finisher.

I've thought of the following methods so far after looking around my books and it's stats:

- drowning the big lug. dunno how i can set up a force tank in a feasible amount of time though.

- summon quite a few allips.

- transcend mortality + spellguard of the silverymoon, though that's just cheap.

- just buff my cleric to high heaven and squash it's brains.

But really, what are some of the most efficient methods to finish it off? practical methods first, and maybe some cheesy* enough to cause some irritation if i'm feeling particularly vindictive.

* no pun-pun

Prodan
2010-08-04, 10:53 AM
Time Stop.

Reverse Gravity.

Gate.

fortesama
2010-08-04, 10:58 AM
I'm guessing gating to the positive energy plane would cause the least. plane of water might get me some aquatic foes and trying the negative energy plane might make him sic the zombified tarrasque or similar. is that right?

Eldariel
2010-08-04, 11:02 AM
Command Undead/Rebuke control an Allip is by far the most efficient. Plane Shift is quite good against it (Positive Energy Plane and Elemental Plane of Water are both pretty good); Will negates but its Will is like +20 or something; quite poor either way. Gate in a Solar; it'll do the whole job alone just fine.

EDIT: PEP is nearly uninhabited so yeah, that's quite safe.

EDIT#2: Shapechanging into an Allip is always good fun.

Critical
2010-08-04, 11:16 AM
Drop a bag of acid on it. Like, three hundred flasks.

jiriku
2010-08-04, 11:18 AM
Give him a cup of drugged milk. Oh, wait. Wrong T.

Telonius
2010-08-04, 11:23 AM
A Warlock with Fell Flight, Vitriolic Blast, and Eldritch Doom can get it to -10 hitpoints at no danger to himself.

Ernir
2010-08-04, 11:40 AM
Fly + Dominate Monster. Why kill it when you can have it as a pet?

gallagher
2010-08-04, 11:43 AM
Fly + Dominate Monster. Why kill it when you can have it as a pet?

what would the handle animal check be to train him as a mount?

Ernir
2010-08-04, 11:58 AM
what would the handle animal check be to train him as a mount?

DC 78 to rear it, DC 88 to train it.

Eldariel
2010-08-04, 12:20 PM
A Warlock with Fell Flight, Vitriolic Blast, and Eldritch Doom can get it to -10 hitpoints at no danger to himself.

Hm? T has Regeneration 40; you need 13d6 a turn to overcome that. If you use Eldritch Doom and it gets Ref (which it'll mostly make) for ½, you need constant ~20d6 to do it. Not saying it can't be done, but it does require quite the high Warlock-level. Most of the boosts available can only be used 3 times or so; not nearly enough.


DC 78 to rear it, DC 88 to train it.

So, with skillboosts, around level 10? Nice. Though I still prefer True Mind Switching with it and being a Big T Psion 20.

Zeta Kai
2010-08-04, 12:31 PM
A 1st level paladin calls Pazuzu, asks for Candle of Invocation, then use the candle to chain-gate enough solars to do the job for him (two would do the trick, one might in a pinch, any more is overkill). Hell, using Pazuzu in this way would be considered a Good act* & shouldn't make the pally fall, considering that he just rid the world of an immortal engine of destruction at level 1. Pazuzu is kinda cheesy, but it's for a good cause, & the paladin doesn't directly benefit from using this method to strike down the Tarrasque.

* NOTE: This is not meant to spark a debate about alignments, Pun-Pun, or what makes a paladin fall. Just let it go, it doesn't matter.

Eldan
2010-08-04, 12:38 PM
I would start with grease, personally, then just fly out of jumping range and shoot it.

mcl01
2010-08-04, 12:39 PM
Can you use Handle Animal on a Magical Beast?

Dusk Eclipse
2010-08-04, 12:54 PM
Hm? T has Regeneration 40; you need 13d6 a turn to overcome that. If you use Eldritch Doom and it gets Ref (which it'll mostly make) for ½, you need constant ~20d6 to do it. Not saying it can't be done, but it does require quite the high Warlock-level. Most of the boosts available can only be used 3 times or so; not nearly enough.



So, with skillboosts, around level 10? Nice. Though I still prefer True Mind Switching with it and being a Big T Psion 20.

I think a tricked out Hell fire warlock can handle the big T, IIRC hellfire blast can be combined with Vitroilic blast. something like binder 1/Warlock 8/hellfire warlock 3/Legacy champion 9
might do the trick.

Disclaimer I am working entirely from memory so I might get level numbers/intereaction between abilties wrong

Can you use Handle Animal on a Magical Beast?

IIRC you need to use diplomacy as most (all?) magical beast have int 3 or more and thus intelegent

Ernir
2010-08-04, 01:04 PM
Can you use Handle Animal on a Magical Beast?

With Epic Handle Animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#handleAnimal), yes.

Keld Denar
2010-08-04, 01:53 PM
Honestly, Big T isn't that big of a threat AS WRITTEN. Find a way to restrict it to a single action (Heightened Slow works, its not Mind Affecting) cripples it. It doesn't even hit that hard if you have 200+ HP and a miss chance. A decently optimized level 20 beat stick should be able to take it out in 1 to 2 rounds of full attacks. Heck, my GREENSTAR ADEPT entry for one of the previous Iron Optimization challenges could take Big T out in 2 rounds of full attacks. If you have 2 such characters on your team, just pummel it into negative HP. Its AC isn't unbeatable, especially if you have a method of using Touch Attacks. A moderatly optimized charger, and I'm not even talking about the FULL level of absurdity you can get to, but just Shocktrooper, Leap Attack and a big 2hander should be able to drop it in one round on a pouncing charge. Thats without a Valorous weapon, Reckless Charge, Frenzied Berzerker or any of the other stuff stacked on top of it.

Once its down, wish it away, wish for a pizza and some beer to be delivered, and enjoy the fireworks put on in your honor.

awa
2010-08-04, 05:03 PM
i can not claim to have thought this up but build a sufficiently deep pit trap fill it with water lure the trasq into it then cap it with a wall of force. allow trasq to drown.

In my mind this is the simplest method to bring down the trasq.

Keld Denar
2010-08-04, 05:12 PM
Walls of Force can only be erected vertially. You can't create a Wall of Force "lid" to cover anything. Well, I guess if you cast several of them with the spaces in between being too small for the Tarrasque to squeeze between them. Still, horribly inefficient and would probably take multiple wizards to establish in a timely fashion to prevent his escape. The Tarrasque doesn't have a climb speed, but he does have a massive Str score to compensate.

Raistlin1040
2010-08-04, 05:13 PM
My level 20 Bard/Sublime Chord took out Big T. in one round with a Celerity and two Dominate Monsters.

Harris the Ford
2010-08-04, 05:13 PM
Or you can just hire a Cavalier to kill it in one round... :)

Greenish
2010-08-04, 06:27 PM
Or you can just hire a Cavalier to kill it in one round... :)Or a tashatalora to grapple it and drag it away. There's no need to go a-killin', Tarrasque are endangered species!

reptilecobra13
2010-08-04, 07:02 PM
Or a tashatalora to grapple it and drag it away. There's no need to go a-killin', Tarrasque are endangered species!

This is just begging for a Tarrasque Protection Act/Group to screw over the PCs...I love it!

true_shinken
2010-08-04, 08:34 PM
Give him a cup of drugged milk. Oh, wait. Wrong T.

I see what you did there. I approve.

fryplink
2010-08-04, 09:12 PM
Rod of rulership (no save for low INT creatures like Mr.T), give it an item that will let it fly (or cast an overland flight spell on it, teleport it since it will be willing {because of rulership]), tie it to a huge rock(or sov glue several tons of lead to it's skin, fill it with molten lead, etc), float/teleport it it to a crazy deep section of ocean, remove/dispel the flight item/effect.

Huzzah Mr. T is not longer a problem (while strictly not dead, he is "finished" as per the title) no wishing needed, and since the water will keep drowning him ,the glue/lead will keep him pinned down, when he revives, he will simply re-drown. But if you need a distraction you can limitied wish it in front of you for barrier that would be crazy hard to pentrate

fortesama
2010-08-05, 07:12 PM
An interesting method. I think I'll try that if he manages to find a way around the transcend mortality trick.

In fact... any excuse you can think of that allows the big guy to avoid the... side effect when Transcend Mortality ends?

awa
2010-08-05, 08:50 PM
perhaps a lid is the wrong word but the trasq is a big monster just put two in so it cant get out you don't need to cover the hole just make sure their isn't enough room to climb past a bigger problem i just noticed is the duration so you should use a force cage to cap the hole

FMArthur
2010-08-05, 09:16 PM
Can the Tarrasque regenerate from Vile damage? How does one get Vile damage for use?

ericgrau
2010-08-05, 09:21 PM
Fly + Dominate Monster. Why kill it when you can have it as a pet?

SR + Will save => Dominate takes 6 tries on average. How many 9th level spell slots do you have at level 18ish? I say level 18 b/c at level 20 a CR 20 Big T is a random encounter not a real fight.


Time Stop.

Reverse Gravity.

Gate.

The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall. A gate is 20 feet across. I like the reverse gravity though.

Based on this and other threads, I'm slowly getting the impression that everyone likes to smack talk the Tarrasque but none of those people actually knows how to finish him off.

Eldariel
2010-08-05, 11:13 PM
SR + Will save => Dominate takes 6 tries on average. How many 9th level spell slots do you have at level 18ish? I say level 18 b/c at level 20 a CR 20 Big T is a random encounter not a real fight.

Well, that depends on how much effort you put on it. Saves can be scaled and SR shouldn't really be a problem if you actually know you're fighting T and thus need to overcome SR. Core, you'll always pick Spell Penetration and Greater anyways. Out-of-core, True Casting or Assay Resistance.

Then you'll always have Orange Prism Ioun Stone; Archmage level isn't unlikely either. Let's put you in the default Wizard 7/Loremaster 6/Archmage 5 for ease of reference. Now, if you know you're up against Big T, you can UMD Beads of Karma beforehand; it lasts for 10 minutes so it should be simple enough to do before you teleport to it. This places your CL at 24 and 28 for Spell Penetration purposes; unfortunately that leaves you with a 15% chance to fail, but c'est la vie.


Then, Dominate Monster. Well, this assumes you didn't just ban enchantment (Why? Well, I guess a pet Tarrasque is pretty amusing if not terribly useful, but this seems implausible.), but it's a level 9 spell. This gives us 19 base save DC. Then, we should have ~+10 - +12 Int depending on how much optimization we put into it. This should place us at about save DC 30, plus any possible Spell Foci we have (Enchantment is actually a rather good school for that, if you need 'em for Archmage Entry; let's assume SF but no GSF). This gives us Save DC 31.

So, we have 15% chance of failing the SR and T has 50% chance of making the save. We have 42.5% chance of success. Two tries gives us ~66% chances of success. You should have 3 9th level slots (2 from levels, 1 from high ability score) so that seems eminently doable, assuming you had prepared beforehand. Since it's a boss encounter, I guess that's fair, and it's not like it's outside a Wizard's means on these levels anyways. But as you should've banned Enchantment, meh.

Runestar
2010-08-06, 12:50 AM
You don't even need to resort to such tricks. Simply have the wizard hit him with a heightened slow and it is reduced to 1 paltry attack/round. Your fighter can then stand toe to toe with it in combat. Show your DM just how pathetic it is by beating it the old-fashioned way. :smallbiggrin:

Plus, I am fairly sure this can be done from as early as 14th lv, depending on your party.

Keld Denar
2010-08-06, 12:57 AM
Yea, a well played Balor or CR20 dragon is gonna be a MUCH harder challenge than that poor pitiful fool of a magical beast. If you have a gishy fighter character, Wraithstrike + Full PA Full Attack generally means its dead in 2 turns tops, even with DR/Epic. Find a way to disable its full attack, then just blow it up. Once its down, keep whacking it until it hits -30 and wish it from existance with a side of tea.

GreyMantle
2010-08-06, 03:23 PM
Based on this and other threads, I'm slowly getting the impression that everyone likes to smack talk the Tarrasque but none of those people actually knows how to finish him off.

What do you expect, honestly? The Tarrasque is a level 20 monster from a game that gets horrifically (even exponentially) complicated and time-consuming to play as you gains levels. And to make matters worse, it's neither intelligent nor good in an all around fight, which means the only reason you'd fight it would be a random encounter (which would be hilarious but still really lame) or as a "the BBEG wants to awaken the tarrasque" adventure. But a powerful demon, devil, aberration, elemental...etc. would also be lovely for that style of adventure, and those monsters are also more interesting thematically and mechanically.

All the tarrasque is is just a big sack of hitpoints and defensive mechanisms. It's boring. The only way you're going to get DMs naive enough to run it is if they're too inexperienced to notice how weak it is, which means you're likely to have players too inexperienced to be able to kill it, which means said players will not post in a thread about how to kill the tarrasque easily. QED.

Skorj
2010-08-06, 03:33 PM
The tarrasque was pretty much meant to be a "hilarious but still really lame" random encounter, or at least the early versions were, IMO. I never did understand where its iconic status came from.

For pure cheese power, I'd look for a way to use T as a material component in a spell that consumes those. There have been occasional threads here about that, and I always admired the sheer audacity of such over-the-top cheesiness. :smallbiggrin:

ericgrau
2010-08-06, 03:34 PM
Well, that depends on how much effort you put on it. Saves can be scaled and SR shouldn't really be a problem if you actually know you're fighting T and thus need to overcome SR. Core, you'll always pick Spell Penetration and Greater anyways. Out-of-core, True Casting or Assay Resistance.

Then you'll always have Orange Prism Ioun Stone; Archmage level isn't unlikely either. Let's put you in the default Wizard 7/Loremaster 6/Archmage 5 for ease of reference. Now, if you know you're up against Big T, you can UMD Beads of Karma beforehand; it lasts for 10 minutes so it should be simple enough to do before you teleport to it. This places your CL at 24 and 28 for Spell Penetration purposes; unfortunately that leaves you with a 15% chance to fail, but c'est la vie.


Then, Dominate Monster. Well, this assumes you didn't just ban enchantment (Why? Well, I guess a pet Tarrasque is pretty amusing if not terribly useful, but this seems implausible.), but it's a level 9 spell. This gives us 19 base save DC. Then, we should have ~+10 - +12 Int depending on how much optimization we put into it. This should place us at about save DC 30, plus any possible Spell Foci we have (Enchantment is actually a rather good school for that, if you need 'em for Archmage Entry; let's assume SF but no GSF). This gives us Save DC 31.

So, we have 15% chance of failing the SR and T has 50% chance of making the save. We have 42.5% chance of success. Two tries gives us ~66% chances of success. You should have 3 9th level slots (2 from levels, 1 from high ability score) so that seems eminently doable, assuming you had prepared beforehand. Since it's a boss encounter, I guess that's fair, and it's not like it's outside a Wizard's means on these levels anyways. But as you should've banned Enchantment, meh.

Even at level 18 the orange ioun stone is a bit expensive, and it's maybe a 50:50 shot that a smart player will even have it. Ditto on beads of karma strand of prayer beads (while finding/buying a single bead is possible, it's extremely unlikely). Likewise I've only seen a handful of builds with spell penetration. And even with all 3 together it barely makes a difference. For the save DC I assumed 30 int (after all, all 5 int tomes would be 250k out of your 440k), and no most people don't get spell focus (enchantment), though some do. Save DC of 29 assumed, but whatever, close enough. Optimizing your build purely for Big T and given time to plan ahead of time, it would be sad if you could not beat him at level 16 or lower. Practically speaking you'll be at level 18 but believe it or not your build won't revolve around this single fight.

Hence the 6 tries to dominate is more realistic. Maybe 5 tries if you were lucky and blew feats on enchantment or spell penetration or w/e.

Slow has an even lower save DC than dominate. As far as I can tell the rod of rulership actually works lol. Dunno if SR applies but even then it would mean 2-3 tries. And for an auto win (rather than a piddly +1 for only 1 PC) it's worth it for the party to run away, pool their coinage, and buy one if they can find one. Cheap trick tho. And doesn't actually kill big T but does buy you 8 hours to plan a more convoluted tactic that wouldn't have time to work otherwise.

Boci
2010-08-06, 03:48 PM
Based on this and other threads, I'm slowly getting the impression that everyone likes to smack talk the Tarrasque but none of those people actually knows how to finish him off.

The ability to fly renders you immune to him. The basic point is that big piles of numbers (which the the Big T is) does not work for a high CR monster in a game like D&D. Anyway the easiest way is the allip trick. Drain it of wisdom (its only immune to damage) and its in a coma. You use to be able to do it with 1, but since MMIII you will need to summon more since now he actually has a chance of killing them.

Eldariel
2010-08-06, 03:50 PM
after all, all 5 int tomes would be 250k out of your 440k

+5 Tome is 135k, so expensive but not impossible. On these levels, you might just have bought the whole thing. And I'd say Orange Prism is a gimme at mere ~7% of your wealth; caster level is useful beyond words and getting an untyped slotless bonus for 30k is a bargain. But yeah, I hold that you want all the CL gear no matter what you're doing and if you go core, you pick up Spell Penetration. It's then mostly a matter of what your put your Archmage prereq SFs to.

But yeah, Allips through Shapechange, Command, Rebuke or whatever tend to be the easiest solution. SoDs or similars work too, but tend to be less reliable.

FlamingKobold
2010-08-06, 04:03 PM
A webpage about how to kill the tarrasque in interesting ways. Yay. (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dkb1/dnd/tarrasque.txt)

ericgrau
2010-08-06, 04:06 PM
+5 Tome is 135k, so expensive but not impossible. On these levels, you might just have bought the whole thing. And I'd say Orange Prism is a gimme at mere ~7% of your wealth; caster level is useful beyond words and getting an untyped slotless bonus for 30k is a bargain. But yeah, I hold that you want all the CL gear no matter what you're doing and if you go core, you pick up Spell Penetration. It's then mostly a matter of what your put your Archmage prereq SFs to.

But yeah, Allips through Shapechange, Command, Rebuke or whatever tend to be the easiest solution. SoDs or similars work too, but tend to be less reliable.

Eh it's still only a +1, hence why I said a 50:50 chance of someone getting it. The only uses I see for caster level for a wizard are SR and greater dispel. While SR is common at high levels, he might equally go for more spells, other ways to boost spells, spells without SR like reverse gravity, etc. 45k on prayer beads 1/day is even more situational. Even so, I see CL 19-21 vs. SR 32, and a DC 29-32 will save vs. a modifier of +20. About 4 tries to land a spell at best. Noncore methods introduce power creep, and really you should be at a lower level to keep things fair, if not face creatures that don't auto-fail against some cheesy trick like assay spell resistance.

The no save / no SR tricks seem like a better bet, but even those don't actually finish him off, only disable him until you can. I wonder how people finish the deed from there.

An allip seems to work, except for the fluff:
"An allip is the spectral remains of someone driven to suicide by a madness that afflicted it in life. It craves only revenge and unrelentingly pursues those who tormented it in life and pushed it over the brink."
The wis drain is also madness based. So either you gate one and figure out some way to communicate / order something that can't talk and can barely think (?) or become one and aren't mad so you can't drain wis (or are you?)

Boci
2010-08-06, 04:08 PM
An allip seems to work, except for the fluff:
"An allip is the spectral remains of someone driven to suicide by a madness that afflicted it in life. It craves only revenge and unrelentingly pursues those who tormented it in life and pushed it over the brink."
The wis drain is also madness based. So either you gate one that doesn't care about big T or become one and aren't mad so you can't drain wis (or are you?)

No need to gate, summon undead will do the trick. No need to worry about fluff then.

ericgrau
2010-08-06, 04:10 PM
I didn't see "allip" on the list for "create undead" nor "create greater undead". What spell are you refering to? And then I assume you can control it somehow?

Maybe a cleric with gate and command undead (to get around communication barrier; I know gated creatures are obligated to fulfill contractual service), but then you'd have to be neutral or evil, which is uncommon.

Boci
2010-08-06, 04:12 PM
I didn't see "allip" on the list for "create undead" nor "create greater undead". What spell are you refering to. And then I assume you can control it somehow?

Summon undead. They are found in numberous source books. Herroes of Horror, Libris Mortis and Spell Compendulum I believe. And I'm AFB at the moment but I'm pretty sure the summoning spell part takes care of obediance.

Eldariel
2010-08-06, 04:13 PM
Command Undead or Control Undead gives you sufficient control over an allip for a sufficiently long time. And regardless of the fluff, Shapechange grants you all Su-abilities such as dealing Wis-drain so you can do just that.

ericgrau
2010-08-06, 04:15 PM
^ So then the caster goes mad?


Summon undead. They are found in numberous source books. Herroes of Horror, Libris Mortis and Spell Compendulum I believe. And I'm AFB at the moment but I'm pretty sure the summoning spell part takes care of obediance.

Meh, all the more reason to add special defenses to any core monsters the DM plans on using, or to disallow abusable monsters like allips. I mean big T isn't the only encounter it can make trivial.

Boci
2010-08-06, 04:17 PM
^ So then the caster goes mad?

Nope, madness is fluff, not an ability gained through shapechanging.


Meh, all the more reason to add special defenses to any core monsters the DM plans on using, or to disallow abusable monsters like allips. I mean big T isn't the only encounter it can make trivial.

True, but allips are not nearly as dangerous to other CR: 20 monsters like outsiders and dragons.

Eldariel
2010-08-06, 04:46 PM
^ So then the caster goes mad?

That's just fluff text; rather irrelevant as far the spell is concerned. But considering you maintain your own mind, no, I'd imagine not. Tho apparently you can emulate Allip-mind to such degree that if someone comes in contact with your mind, they take Wis hit (since you gain the ability).

Stompy
2010-08-06, 04:55 PM
I've (sorta) gone over this strategy on 2 other threads. I'll see if it is viable later.

Play totemist, get flying, bind the tarrasque soulmeld to your chakra totem, use the beast hunter's circlet to further up wild empathy with Big T, cheese wild empathy out more, use wild empathy to improve his attitude to where he won't eat you, then repeat wild empathies later on in the future and be friends with the tarrasque. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Just realized that you could cheese out diplomacy on a 17th level monk with Tongue of Sun and Moon. I'm not sure if you can call this efficient though.

Incorrect
2010-08-06, 05:01 PM
Efficient?
There was a thread awhile back about getting the cheapest option, if I remember correctly. I believe the most cost-effective way was to use lassos to reduce mr. T's Dex to zero and then do the old scythe-hack-n'-slash.
No need for them fancy pancy magics and their high gp prices.
Well except for the wish to finish it off..

ericgrau
2010-08-06, 05:03 PM
That's just fluff text; rather irrelevant as far the spell is concerned. But considering you maintain your own mind, no, I'd imagine not. Tho apparently you can emulate Allip-mind to such degree that if someone comes in contact with your mind, they take Wis hit (since you gain the ability).

But... but, the wis drain is dependent on the allip's own madness... arghh. Now the madness is affecting me. You see what RAW shenanigans lead to? Eh, w/e, you guys go ahead and enjoy the silliness. I'm out :smallbiggrin:.

Boci
2010-08-06, 05:04 PM
Efficient?
There was a thread awhile back about getting the cheapest option, if I remember correctly. I believe the most cost-effective way was to use lassos to reduce mr. T's Dex to zero and then do the old scythe-hack-n'-slash.
No need for them fancy pancy magics and their high gp prices.
Well except for the wish to finish it off..

I think you also needed heroes feat for immunity to fear, and does a lasso give a dex penalty (i.e. cannot reduce a state to 0)?

Incorrect
2010-08-06, 05:10 PM
The thread searching is complete, it was Darrin, with this thread:
[3.5] Rope Trick: Hogtieing the Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102922)
He does buy a Heroes Feast, the Dex=0 I am not sure about how works
Killing Mr. T for 775gp + Wish

Boci
2010-08-06, 05:13 PM
The thread searching is complete, it was Darrin, with this thread:
[3.5] Rope Trick: Hogtieing the Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102922)
He does buy a Heroes Feast, the Dex=0 I am not sure about how works
Killing Mr. T for 775gp + Wish

Assuming they are using the BoED for lasso rules:


Lasso: A lasso is an entangling weapon that deals no damage,
but it entangles only parts of an opponent’s body. When you use
a lasso to entangle your opponent’s arms, you make a ranged
touch attack against your target. A lasso’s maximum range is 30
feet. If you hit, the target is partially entangled, taking a –2 on
attack rolls and a –4 penalty on effective Dexterity. The creature’s
speed is not reduced, and it can still charge or run, but if
you control the trailing rope by succeeding at an opposed
Strength check while holding it, the lassoed creature can only
move within the limits that the rope allows. If the lassoed creature
attempts to cast a spell, it must succeed on a DC 15 Concentration
check or be unable to cast the spell.
The lassoed creature can escape with a DC 20 Escape Artist
check as a full-round action. The lasso has 2 hp and can be
broken with a DC 23 Strength check—also a full-round action.
Alternatively, you can use a lasso to make trip attacks. If you
are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the lasso
to avoid being tripped.

Pretty sure that won't reduce dex below 1.

Incorrect
2010-08-06, 05:20 PM
Assuming they are using the BoED for lasso rules

....

Pretty sure that won't reduce dex below 1.

They are indeed using BoED, and if that is true this is useless and Mr. T just slaughters the mercenaries.

Boci
2010-08-06, 05:38 PM
They are indeed using BoED, and if that is true this is useless and Mr. T just slaughters the mercenaries.

My sense of decency says that if I player tried that I should tell him it will not work. My sense of fun however says I should just let things play out.

olentu
2010-08-06, 06:10 PM
Er hmm, now that I think about it where if in fact it is anywhere was that general rule stating that penalties can not reduce scores below one. I can not happen to remember where such a thing might be but I assume that the location must be known to the people promoting the existence of the rule and would prefer to know for my future use.

Edit: Well then perhaps the rule does not exist.

Eldariel
2010-08-06, 06:49 PM
But... but, the wis drain is dependent on the allip's own madness... arghh. Now the madness is affecting me. You see what RAW shenanigans lead to? Eh, w/e, you guys go ahead and enjoy the silliness. I'm out :smallbiggrin:.

I think it actually leads to some awesomeness when you have to explain the DM how exactly that works (or the DM explains you :P) so it's well worth it! Besides, it's a Su-ability you get so chances are it's more than simple "yeah, he's kinda insane and insanity is contagious"-thing.

fortesama
2010-08-09, 08:20 PM
So... the general consensus appears to be that allip are the most efficient means to do it. I run a neutral cleric albeit without the very good level in rebuke. I do remember that one of the summon undead spells could summon allips so a couple of those should take it down easy. and yes, all of us are inexperienced in this game. apparently, i'm the only one who knows how to run a cleric who's not a healbot (and I have officially usurped our fighter's role as tank).

dgnslyr
2010-08-09, 10:19 PM
I saw somewhere on tvtropes a level 20 fighter who could deal enough damage to one-shot a Tarrasque by pouncing on it and Power Attacking+ Shock Troopering, among other things. I can't seem to find it, though, and to look would be to invite madness.

Another_Poet
2010-08-09, 11:18 PM
I'd say an unarmed fighter knocking it out with one punch is probably the best way to go.

See my sig for details :)

Jeff the Green
2010-08-10, 10:12 PM
Aboleth mucus. DC's only 19, but on a natural 1 it becomes unable to breathe air. Just sit back and wait; death's inevitable.

Probably not the most time-efficient way, but at an average of 280 GP, it's certainly the most cost-efficient.

Jack_Simth
2010-08-10, 10:26 PM
- just buff my cleric to high heaven and squash it's brains.
Believe it or not, this can actually work. Even without the Miracle to finish it off. You just have to do enough damage that it eventually invokes the starvation rules, and goes far enough that the starvation nonlethal exceeds it's max HP. Then it's not getting back up until someone force-feeds it.

Eldariel
2010-08-10, 11:11 PM
I saw somewhere on tvtropes a level 20 fighter who could deal enough damage to one-shot a Tarrasque by pouncing on it and Power Attacking+ Shock Troopering, among other things. I can't seem to find it, though, and to look would be to invite madness.

It's fairly trivial. You can do a Mounted build and not even try or a non-Mounted Build and just go for it. Basic idea is:
- Get Pounce (Barbarian dip, for example)
- Double your damage a few times (Headlong Rush, Battle Jump, Valorous Weapon, Halberd of Vaulting, etc.)
- Multiply your Power Attack damage (Leap Attack, Frenzied Berserker, Favored Power Attack, etc.)
- Other damage increases (Power Lunge for example basically gives you 2x Str to damage, and extra arms add some more, "Leading the Charge"-stance gives you basically +10, "Battle Leader's Charge" gives you ~+10 damage too, etc.)


Assuming modest Barbarian 1/Fighter 19 with Whirling Frenzy and no magic items, we get:
- 33 Str (22 Orc + 5 Levels + 4 Rage + 2 Reckless Rage)
- Power Attack for 20, Leap Attacking, we get 80 Power Attack damage.
- Leading the Charge for 10 more damage
- Battle Leader's Charge for 10 more
- Base Weapon Damage irrelevant
- Doubled twice (x3) with Headlong Rush & Battle Jump (yes, we can make the Jump-check)

We have 5 attacks in our Whirling Frenzy; thanks to Law Devotion & Melee Weapon Mastery, they're something like +42/+42/+37/+32/+27. We can safely expect to hit with 4 of the 5.

Our damage:
~140*3 per attack = 420
5 attacks, 4 of which we expect to connect minus DR 15 = 1620. That's almost twice Big T's HP, and we aren't using magic items yet.