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View Full Version : Drow Malconvoker tips <3.5>



Machiavellian
2010-08-04, 05:59 PM
Thanks to the Playgrounders, I dove into the books once again and found Malconvoker. Here's how the Build will look:

Generalist 10/Malconvoker 10 (only allowed 1 PrC, so no "cherry dipping")

With feats, I can pick them up easy (picking up 2 flaws for the 2 required feats)

I have a couple questions:

1. is this a good PrC for this type of character? He was Evil, became neutral, and is now NG. He wants to be a hero, but doesn't know how (evil is second nature to him)

2. What sorts of demons/devils should I focus on? I thought that in a pinch, an Aspect of Orcus/Demogorgon/Asmodeus/Mephistophelese, since they aren't divine technically. Plus, smaller "hordes" of evil critters seems appropriate. Am I wrong?

FMArthur
2010-08-04, 06:23 PM
I don't think the Malconvoker quite fits someone who is morally confused... the class is about knowingly decieving evil critters into fighting against evil, involving bluff checks and the like. Someone who is honestly oblivious to evil's objection to doing good probably can't be making those bluff checks, can they? I would certainly allow it as a DM anyway because it sounds interesting, but it's possible yours might take objection.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-04, 06:23 PM
Malconvoker is only 9 levels long, first off. Second, there is no practical reason not to go Conjurer for this build, as it allows you to trade away your near worthless familiar for standard action casting.

Also, talk with your DM about the one prestige class limit, as most Malconvokers work wonders with Master Specialist. Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist +8/Malconvoker +2 sure as hell isn't dipping, but it is more than one prestige class.

As for your questions, Malconvoker is what you make of it. The default fluff works well or anyone who wants to help Good by pitting Evil against Evil. If you want something else, go ahead and toy with it. I personally played a half-nymph a while back who saw Malconvoking as the greatest prank to play against Archfiends.

Everything else you should need can be found here. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0) If not, I've got some .docs around somewhere with guides on summons at each level and what not.

EDIT: This is more to FMArthur, but... "I still summon evil because I can't help it, even though I use it against evil." Sure sounds like a Malconvoker to me.

Machiavellian
2010-08-04, 06:40 PM
Malconvoker is only 9 levels long, first off. Second, there is no practical reason not to go Conjurer for this build, as it allows you to trade away your near worthless familiar for standard action casting.

Also, talk with your DM about the one prestige class limit, as most Malconvokers work wonders with Master Specialist. Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist +8/Malconvoker +2 sure as hell isn't dipping, but it is more than one prestige class.

As for your questions, Malconvoker is what you make of it. The default fluff works well or anyone who wants to help Good by pitting Evil against Evil. If you want something else, go ahead and toy with it. I personally played a half-nymph a while back who saw Malconvoking as the greatest prank to play against Archfiends.

Everything else you should need can be found here. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0) If not, I've got some .docs around somewhere with guides on summons at each level and what not.

EDIT: This is more to FMArthur, but... "I still summon evil because I can't help it, even though I use it against evil." Sure sounds like a Malconvoker to me.

#1. I'm allowed only 1 PrC, so Master Specialist
#2. Wizards in my DM's Campaign are all generalists. Feats show specialization, not class features (although a PrC is allowed)
#3. My Monsterous Medium Spider is not a useless familair...
#4. So a Drow with a habit of using Evil spells to do Good (I know, kinda akward) already has enough fluff?
#5. Could a Malconvoker of a high enough level summon an aspect of an evil?

Mystic Muse
2010-08-04, 07:07 PM
#3. My Monsterous Medium Spider is not a useless familair...
#4. So a Drow with a habit of using Evil spells to do Good (I know, kinda akward) already has enough fluff?
#5. Could a Malconvoker of a high enough level summon an aspect of an evil?


3. It might become one though
4. Yes.
5. If you can find a way of summoning it, it seems so. However, your DM will probably say "No. Not happening."

Machiavellian
2010-08-04, 07:14 PM
3. It might become one though
4. Yes.
5. If you can find a way of summoning it, it seems so. However, your DM will probably say "No. Not happening."

3. It can be buffed with ease. Any abjuration/transmutation spell would do.
5. Since it's little more than a named Demon/Devil, I don't think it's too much to ask.

one more: D&D wiki had the Fallen Celestial template, and I thought this could be a great Augment Summon template, since its 0LA and almost makes sense: I'm giving these fallen celestials a second chance

Mystic Muse
2010-08-04, 07:32 PM
3. It can be buffed with ease. Any abjuration/transmutation spell would do.
5. Since it's little more than a named Demon/Devil, I don't think it's too much to ask.

3. It's still CR 1.
5. Look at the aspect of Atropus, Sertrous or Leviathan and tell me your DM would let you summon that. Also, IIRC summoning the aspect would wake the actual Leviathan up and then Deific intervention would be required.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-04, 07:36 PM
#1. I'm allowed only 1 PrC, so Master Specialist
#2. Wizards in my DM's Campaign are all generalists. Feats show specialization, not class features (although a PrC is allowed)
#3. My Monsterous Medium Spider is not a useless familair...
#4. So a Drow with a habit of using Evil spells to do Good (I know, kinda akward) already has enough fluff?
#5. Could a Malconvoker of a high enough level summon an aspect of an evil?

1. As I said, I would talk with your DM. Malconvoker is the stronger of the two options, but they mesh well together. If his sole reasoning for "no" is to avoid dips, you can clearly show him that you plan to take MS to completion after taking more than half of the levels of Malconvoker.

2. Then blow the feats for such! I know you said in the other thread that you wanted every spell evar, but that's theoretical. In practice, you'd be lucky to get every spell from a single school. Also, one must consider that most spells are superfluous. The (Lesser) Orb of X spells all do the same damn thing except for damage type and the consequence on failing the save.

3. If you're wanting to go melee with your spider, you'd be blowing spells on something your summons could do better while also risking an XP hit. Generally speaking, the best bet for a familiar is either the Raven to double your spells per round with UMD or the Hummingbird for +4 or +8 to initiative with the Elf-substitution levels. If you absolutely want to go melee with your familiar, you don't do it as a wizard. see Dictuum Mortem's guide for details.

4. You're character is attempting to be Good, but is having trouble leaving his almost inherit evil ways, no? So, although he cannot shack summoning evil beings instead of celestial souls, he has at least managed a way to channel such actions for Good by pitting these vile beasts against other vile beasts.

5. Some of the later monster manuals detail how certain clerics/wizards can swap out monsters of various SM levels for monsters in that book. Although I don't think you can get an aspect this way, if you can somehow pump your available HD with the Planar Binding spells, you should be able to grab one of the weaker aspects out there.

Machiavellian
2010-08-04, 08:14 PM
5. Look at the aspect of Atropus, Sertrous or Leviathan and tell me your DM would let you summon that. Also, IIRC summoning the aspect would wake the actual Leviathan up and then Deific intervention would be required.

Wasn't planning on doing THAT...

I was actually looking at Mephistophelese, Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and Orcus.

Mystic Muse
2010-08-04, 08:17 PM
Wasn't planning on doing THAT... could have said demon lord/Archdevil aspect rather than "An evil"


I was actually looking at Mephistophelese, Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and Orcus.

You're going to need something better than planar binding for those. I'm pretty sure the weakest of those is 24 HD and Asmodeus has 32. And believe me when I say you aren't going to get any of those on a pre-epic summon monster list.

FMArthur
2010-08-04, 09:41 PM
Wasn't planning on doing THAT...

I was actually looking at Mephistophelese, Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and Orcus.

Let's say for a minute that this is possible and your DM allows you to do it. Do you honestly think summoning an evil deity's aspect to do your trivial tasks will not have its consequences? I wouldn't try anything like this on any characters I spent much time creating and introducing. :smalleek:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-08-04, 09:52 PM
Let's say for a minute that this is possible and your DM allows you to do it. Do you honestly think summoning an evil deity's aspect to do your trivial tasks will not have its consequences? I wouldn't try anything like this on any characters I spent much time creating and introducing. :smalleek:

Eh, you should have enough bluff over their sense motive to avoid such consequences. Worst case scenario, you have to wand up some Glibness before making them your chew toy.